The Possible Abuse of Caylee REVISIT

[debs]

Whatever reasons the Anthony's had for never meeting "Zanny" can be laid solely upon Casey's shoulders. I have never heard anything that would suggest they didn't at least ask to meet her. Or to get her number. Or to pick Caylee up from there. Casey was the parent and took responsibility for this........well, as much as lying about a non-existent person allows for responsibility.

What we do in our own lives allows that we don't have flipping liarpants for daughters or sons. I know where Princess PeePee is at all times but only because she's at my house every day. I am her nanny. But when I wasn't, I also knew where she was, because I was able to pick her up on my way home from work and have time with her. But that's because I'm me. I can't project myself into Cindy or George's life and understand why they didn't do the things I do (people say I'm a control freak....I deal). I can only assume people get through their day with the people in their life the best they know how.

So I don't think out of all this anyone can speculate that George and Cindy were negligent in allowing their daughter to parent her child when in every other thread about George and Cindy it is stated that Cindy was nearly demented in forcing Casey to be a parent.

Casey was no mother of the year. However, there is not one reported instance of anyone saying anything other than that she was a good mother when she was with her daughter.

 

[essies]

Oh, essies, we are for sure, "riding the same bus."

See my post - #72, this thread

Yep-we're right there together. And I'm sure not alone!! Just as some people find it hard to accept that a mother could deliberately kill her baby, many find it hard to put part of the blame at the A's feet. Caylee was murdered by one, but failed by many!:furious:

 

[believe09]

Yuri actually SAW the bruises?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,389642,00.html

"Melich also said a witness he interviewed remembered seeing bruises on Caylee's body and a mark under her eye without knowing that Melich had a photo showing similar marks on the toddler."

I am going to add my two cents and say that if Melich thought the photos showed something other than the every day bumps and bruises, I believe him. He does not say that in the portion of his testimony that has been released, BUT the story is bolstered by both a photo and an independent witness who states the same thing.

 

[Maya Love]

The parties. When I was a child, a thousand years ago, all the kids went to all the parties with the adults. No one would leave their children at home with a sitter - a sittere was unheard of and a sure sign that the parents were no good. The kids would play and eventually fall asleep in the piles of fur coats tossed on the bed in the master bedroom. We would be carried to the car and put on the backseat, without seat belts (there were none) after the adults were finished dancing drinking and partying. Our dads drove half drunk and we would wake up in our party clothes the next day. No one ever lost a kid. So, I really do not see a problem with having kids at an adult party and I do not consider it abusive in the least, not to mention the fact that I do not think the A's were even aware of Caylee being at parties with mommy.

Me too. My father was a single dad and took me everywhere w/ him. I still remember falling asleep on the couch in the next room while my dad and his mates played cards, or getting to request the next album played, etc. I was always there, and I don 't see a problem w/ it. (it was the 70s though) I agree that sleeping in the bed w/ the boyfriend is out of this world ignorant.

 

[Spitfire4ever]

Yep-we're right there together. And I'm sure not alone!! Just as some people find it hard to accept that a mother could deliberately kill her baby, many find it hard to put part of the blame at the A's feet. Caylee was murdered by one, but failed by many!:furious:

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Chilly Willy]

Whatever reasons the Anthony's had for never meeting "Zanny" can be laid solely upon Casey's shoulders. I have never heard anything that would suggest they didn't at least ask to meet her. Or to get her number. Or to pick Caylee up from there. Casey was the parent and took responsibility for this........well, as much as lying about a non-existent person allows for responsibility.

What we do in our own lives allows that we don't have flipping liarpants for daughters or sons. I know where Princess PeePee is at all times but only because she's at my house every day. I am her nanny. But when I wasn't, I also knew where she was, because I was able to pick her up on my way home from work and have time with her. But that's because I'm me. I can't project myself into Cindy or George's life and understand why they didn't do the things I do (people say I'm a control freak....I deal). I can only assume people get through their day with the people in their life the best they know how.

So I don't think out of all this anyone can speculate that George and Cindy were negligent in allowing their daughter to parent her child when in every other thread about George and Cindy it is stated that Cindy was nearly demented in forcing Casey to be a parent.

Casey was no mother of the year. However, there is not one reported instance of anyone saying anything other than that she was a good mother when she was with her daughter.

Great post, Deb. I'm swear I'm getting tennis neck on this forum reading on one thread how controlling Cindy was and on another how Cindy should have taken control. :waitasec:

I believe Cindy was more than willing to take on the responsibility of raising little Caylee if Casey would have allowed it. Actually, I don't believe she would have considered it a responsibility at all, but rather a joy. With whatever Cindy may have done wrong in her struggles to accept the truth, I really feel it's wrong for people to take away the one thing that she has to be proud of, and that's the way she loved and cared for Caylee. If only more children had grandmas that took them places, loved on them, read them stories, took them swimming, rocked them to sleep, etc......the world would be a much better place.

 

[whiteangora]

I don't think that is in conflict with what I said, I said the photo came from a different source.

Melich also said a witness he interviewed remembered seeing bruises on Caylee's body and a mark under her eye without knowing that Melich had a photo showing similar marks on the toddler, who has been missing more than a month.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,389246,00.html

Except watching the actual video of the Detective Yuri Melich testimony, I am seeing the words come out of his mouth as opposed to some news reporters version.
You had previously only mentioned, "A mark under her eye", Yuri said, "Bruises all over her arms and legs."
I trust what Yuri says over anyone in the media.

 

[impatientredhead]

Except watching the actual video of the Detective Yuri Melich testimony, I am seeing the words come out of his mouth as opposed to some news reporters version.
You had previously only mentioned, "A mark under her eye", Yuri said, "Bruises all over her arms and legs."
I trust what Yuri says over anyone in the media.

I am not doubting what you are saying, I was trying to agree with you and point out that it was not just the hairdresser because the photo came from another party. Two independent parties, more reliable info. Even the quote I posted from the article says multiple bruises.

 

[Chilly Willy]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,389642,00.html

"Melich also said a witness he interviewed remembered seeing bruises on Caylee's body and a mark under her eye without knowing that Melich had a photo showing similar marks on the toddler."

I am going to add my two cents and say that if Melich thought the photos showed something other than the every day bumps and bruises, I believe him. He does not say that in the portion of his testimony that has been released, BUT the story is bolstered by both a photo and an independent witness who states the same thing.

There were no photos of bruises, other than the small bruise under the eye which has been explained, so Melich had no basis for saying whether or not the bruises that he never saw were every day bruises or not.

ONE person who rarely saw Caylee called in months afterward to say she'd seen bruises. Dozens of other people who saw Caylee frequently have said no such thing, quite the opposite in fact. :waitasec:

 

[BetsyB]

Keyword here is family. The child's father. It's not like she was dating this man for years, it only amounted to 4 months?

Uh uh. Not acceptable at all.

And even a close family friend, uh uh, not acceptable. Sorry.

I would never do this to my son. Never.

I can't even imagine introducing my kids to a man until and unless marriage was in the offing. They don't need to meet every person I (hypothetically---I'm married to their father) date. They don't need to form impermanent relationships with casual f*ckbuddies or flavors du jour.

A man's relationship with MY kids would come if and only if his relationship with me had already been very firmly cemented.

That said, I have NO problem with kids at adult parties--though you can't begin to convince me that Casey Anthony's parties had anything adult about them--they were teenage frat-type extravaganzas. And drunken and drugged idiot people with extremely poor boundaries are NOT safe for little girls.

A toddler watching Disney on the sofa while Mom and Dad have dinner and a drink with a group of friends? No comparison, in my book. As long as safety issues are addressed (i.e, someone remaining sober for supervision and driving).

 

[MomofBoys]

This case is so weird.

On the one hand, I agree with others when they say that people in Casey's life said she was a good mother to Caylee...

...they also say that she became a different person toward the end.

Caylee, in pictures, seemed to be a happy, healthy little girl...

...yet she was murdered and dumped like trash in the swamp.

I start to believe this was a tragic accident with a callous, sloppy coverup...

...then I remember the web searches, duct tape, and chloroform.

I can believe that woman would hit her child. I'm just not sure she did.

Either way, she was anything but a "good mother."

 

[BeanE]

There is absolutely zero evidence of that child being abused. Zero. There is anecdotal evidence that KC was a good mother. Frankly, I think this hairdresser was trying to interject herself into the case.

Well, there are different kinds of abuse - physical, emotional, verbal. And then there's also neglect - physical, emotional. Physical abuse isn't just beating a child, there are many ways of abusing a child physically - burning, the recent case of not changing a baby's diaper for a month (child is in a burn unit in critical condition), pulling hair, pulling hair out, pinching, restraining (tying up, chaining, etc.), drugging, etc. etc.

I think Caylee was likely physically abused by being drugged, and probably also restrained. I base this on reported incidents of Casey being somewhere without Caylee, and Cindy saying she was not caring for Caylee at the time. Combined with the chloroform searches on the computer, I think it likely that Caylee was drugged, and probably restrained.

Physical abuse always includes emotional abuse. Bruises, cuts, burns, drug effects, etc heal (if the child lives), but the emotional effects are long-lasting.

Emotional abuse can include arguing in front of a child when the arguments are frequent, explosive, include insults and humiliation, etc. I think given the extreme and uncontrolled anger and verbal abuse displayed by Cindy, George, and Lee, and reports of the same by Casey, that Caylee was exposed to this type of emotional abuse.

Given that same extreme and uncontrolled anger and verbal abuse, I think Caylee was likely a victim of verbal abuse as well.

There are elements of emotional neglect here too. Caylee, like all children, needed to feel safe and cared for. A household with frequent volatile arguments makes a child feel unsafe and confused. Then there are the constant lies in this family. That also leaves a child feeling confused.

I don't think I'm just wildly speculating (but I do realize I *might* be). I think I'm drawing logical and reasonable conclusions based on my knowledge of abuse, what I've seen myself in videos, and what's been reported in sworn statements to LE.

Cindy and George could have and should have taken steps to protect Caylee from this abuse. They should have and could have gone for counseling to get their anger and manipulation and lying under control, to learn how to stop using Caylee as a pawn, to learn how to stop enabling Casey in her crimes (stealing). They should have done this years ago.

When Lee saw his parents were not doing this, then he should have.

It's not enough to say Casey was Caylee's parent and therefore responsible. The fact is that some parents do not respond to their responsibilities to protect their children from harm. In those cases, I believe the people closest to the child are responsible for taking action, and if the people closest don't do so, then the next closest person(s) and so on. If the next closest people don't take responsibility and take action, then we have abused and murdered children. I can't say that's okay. It's just not in me.

MOO

 

[impatientredhead]

I can't even imagine introducing my kids to a man until and unless marriage was in the offing. They don't need to meet every person I (hypothetically---I'm married to their father) date. They don't need to form impermanent relationships with casual f*ckbuddies or flavors du jour.

A man's relationship with MY kids would come if and only if his relationship with me had already been very firmly cemented.

That said, I have NO problem with kids at adult parties--though you can't begin to convince me that Casey Anthony's parties had anything adult about them--they were teenage frat-type extravaganzas. And drunken and drugged idiot people with extremely poor boundaries are NOT safe for little girls.

A toddler watching Disney on the sofa while Mom and Dad have dinner and a drink with a group of friends? No comparison, in my book. As long as safety issues are addressed (i.e, someone remaining sober for supervision and driving).

Very much agree. The sleeping in the same bed set of my warning bells for all parties, mom with no judgement and the boyfriend of the day's. Ick ick ick, just the beginning of passing down lack of boundaries from generation to generation.

 

[msinformed]

When I was growing up, in South Louisiana (BIG party region of the USA), my parents were very socially active. However, my brother and I always stayed home with a babysitter.

My parents were always of the belief that children and alcohol DO NOT mix.

For instance (just one drawback as I see it), what if an emergency arose with the child(ren) or the bldg caught on fire - would the adults who had been consuming alcohol respond as they would if not for the cocktails in their systems?

I am grateful this type of foundation was laid for us, consequently, as a parent myself, I never mixed the parent role with the partying role.

But, I know ........... everyone is different!

 

[whiteangora]

I am not doubting what you are saying, I was trying to agree with you and point out that it was not just the hairdresser because the photo came from another party. Two independent parties, more reliable info. Even the quote I posted from the article says multiple bruises.

Thanks, also when I posted before and said excuse me, it was in a polite sense, I realized I was mistaken and that the hairdresser had not emailed the photo. Sometimes it's hard to construe a person's feelings through text.

 

[whatiswrongwithppl]

Could you please post a link to even one of those cases where a mother lost her parental rights for sleeping around? Who, besides Casey, even knew how many men she slept with? She certainly didn't go home to Cindy and brag about it. Cindy, as naive as it is, thought she was at work. Remember, Cindy couldn't believe that Casey was pregnant.

Apparently some of us had mothers with ESP who knew every single thing we did when we were out of the house, even as adults. I'm sure glad I'm not one of those kids.

Cindy and George did everything they possibly could for Caylee. It's horribly unfair to blame them for Casey's crimes.

Well said! :clap: I don't come around here much anymore (not that I ever really posted much to begin with ) because it seems that when there is nothing going on people want to just stir the pot and "make things up" I think some of this is getting out of control really...

 

[BeanE]

Yep-we're right there together. And I'm sure not alone!! Just as some people find it hard to accept that a mother could deliberately kill her baby, many find it hard to put part of the blame at the A's feet. Caylee was murdered by one, but failed by many!:furious:

Well said, Essie.

 

[whatiswrongwithppl]

We don't know that they didn't have sex.



Keyword here is family. The child's father. It's not like she was dating this man for years, it only amounted to 4 months?

Uh uh. Not acceptable at all.

And even a close family friend, uh uh, not acceptable. Sorry.



I would never do this to my son. Never. It's the floor, separate room or a hotel.



A slight step above.

WOW pretty harsh of you to be so judgemental of someone...she was posting something that SHE does and felt ok doing who are YOU to be the moral police?

 

[technicalconfusion]

I can't even imagine introducing my kids to a man until and unless marriage was in the offing. They don't need to meet every person I (hypothetically---I'm married to their father) date. They don't need to form impermanent relationships with casual f*ckbuddies or flavors du jour.

A man's relationship with MY kids would come if and only if his relationship with me had already been very firmly cemented.

I agree. I always joke around that if my other half and I break up, he'll be the last man for me - I'm that picky!

The parties. When I was a child, a thousand years ago, all the kids went to all the parties with the adults. No one would leave their children at home with a sitter - a sittere was unheard of and a sure sign that the parents were no good. The kids would play and eventually fall asleep in the piles of fur coats tossed on the bed in the master bedroom. We would be carried to the car and put on the backseat, without seat belts (there were none) after the adults were finished dancing drinking and partying. Our dads drove half drunk and we would wake up in our party clothes the next day. No one ever lost a kid. So, I really do not see a problem with having kids at an adult party and I do not consider it abusive in the least, not to mention the fact that I do not think the A's were even aware of Caylee being at parties with mommy.

We didn't go to parties. There was no half drunk for my dad - it was all the way for him so mom refused to go.

Dad didn't have any problems though dragging my brother and I into bars, much to my mom's extreme annoyance. We were 4 and 5 when he started that. Never at night though.

 

[Chilly Willy]

This case is so weird.

On the one hand, I agree with others when they say that people in Casey's life said she was a good mother to Caylee...

...they also say that she became a different person toward the end.

Caylee, in pictures, seemed to be a happy, healthy little girl...

...yet she was murdered and dumped like trash in the swamp.

I start to believe this was a tragic accident with a callous, sloppy coverup...

...then I remember the web searches, duct tape, and chloroform.

I can believe that woman would hit her child. I'm just not sure she did.

Either way, she was anything but a "good mother."

I believe Casey put on the good mother act because that's what people expected of her, not because it's what she felt in her heart. I'm not an expert by any means, but from what I've seen in the videos, Caylee didn't seem to have the temperament of an abused child. She appeared happy and outgoing and loving and not the least bit timid.

I think Cindy saw that Casey was selfish and a liar, she obviously knew that Casey was capable of stealing and conning people, but nothing in Casey's behavior indicated that she would actually do Caylee harm.