The Ramsey case in general

[SterlingArcher]

New here.

But what if an intruder didnt mean to kill her. And really meant to kidnap her.. Knocked her out too hard, wrote the note, tried to put her in the suitcase to kidnap her and when he realized he couldn't get that to work his whole plan was messed up and strangled her in a panic (or she came to which would explain the scream from the basement). Has this been looked at?

I'm also convinced it was an outside person.

 

[CloudedTruth]

New here.

But what if an intruder didnt mean to kill her. And really meant to kidnap her.. Knocked her out too hard, wrote the note, tried to put her in the suitcase to kidnap her and when he realized he couldn't get that to work his whole plan was messed up and strangled her in a panic (or she came to which would explain the scream from the basement). Has this been looked at?

I'm also convinced it was an outside person.

There is nothing to suggest that it was a kidnapping. The SA is a strong clue that it was not. A kidnapper would've been in and out very quickly, not taking her down to the basement to have his / her way with the victim first. The ransom note is also a huge clue to it not being a kidnapping or an intruder. No real kidnapper would write a note like that or do so in the house. And now that she's dead, why leave that behind which could possibly reveal clues as to who you are?

 

[australianwebsleuth]

New here.

But what if an intruder didnt mean to kill her. And really meant to kidnap her.. Knocked her out too hard, wrote the note, tried to put her in the suitcase to kidnap her and when he realized he couldn't get that to work his whole plan was messed up and strangled her in a panic (or she came to which would explain the scream from the basement). Has this been looked at?

I'm also convinced it was an outside person.

The head injury is so severe she would have been unconscious. There was no scream from the basement. ( the scream claim was recanted and happened two days earlier)

 

[SterlingArcher]

Oh kk. I’m sure I’ve missed a lot. But I’m back in, all in, well trained/experienced.

So no scream.. So if he accidentally killed her.. realized, and flipped.. is this something ppl have been talking about?

What’s the amount of force it takes to kill a little kid with a flashlight/of the like..? What if he meant to kidnap her and not kill.. theoretically..

And @CloudedTruth with all due respect, most of that is an opinion. To say “they wouldn’t have done this..” is too closed off for me. Best way to analyze, from my experience, is to not assume anything really.. I look at facts and data first.. I appreciate your outlook though and have considered!

 

[australianwebsleuth]

And @CloudedTruth with all due respect, most of that is an opinion. To say “they wouldn’t have done this..” is too closed off for me. Best way to analyze, from my experience, is to not assume anything really.. I look at facts and data first.. I appreciate your outlook though and have considered!

I agree, getting the facts right is the most important way of proceeding with the case. I tend to look at facts and reject conjecture. In fact I think the problem with the case is that the facts and timeline surrounding her death are not clear and need review by experts. It actually does not make sense. You may have seen what I have done with the autopsy report. I have done this because as I see this as the only way forward. I can't see subjective contradictory expert opinions about who wrote the letter having any effect on the case at all.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Oh kk. I’m sure I’ve missed a lot. But I’m back in, all in, well trained/experienced.

So no scream.. So if he accidentally killed her.. realized, and flipped.. is this something ppl have been talking about?

What’s the amount of force it takes to kill a little kid with a flashlight/of the like..? What if he meant to kidnap her and not kill.. theoretically..

And @CloudedTruth with all due respect, most of that is an opinion. To say “they wouldn’t have done this..” is too closed off for me. Best way to analyze, from my experience, is to not assume anything really.. I look at facts and data first.. I appreciate your outlook though and have considered!

Yes, I will concede that most is an opinion. However, it is an opinion that is not only shared by many, it is also based upon logic and historical context of how most kidnappers operate. If the purpose of a kidnapping is to get money from the victim's family, one typically seeks to obtain that end result with a well thought out plan in order to succeed. To leave behind almost nothing to reveal one's presence at the crime scene but then write a novel length note of nonsense makes no sense to me.

I also think it's worth noting that much of the evidence in this case is circumstantial.

Also with regard to the scream, while it is in question, the neighbor who heard it reported hearing it on the night of the murder, not two days earlier as was said above. The neighbor only started to doubt herself after having been questioned by Ramsey investigators. Her account to police prior to that was that she could not be sure of the exact time as she had not looked at the clock, but estimated it to be between midnight and 2am. It was piercing enough that it woke her, she slept with a window slightly open. She also did not specify that it came from the Ramsey basement as was suggested above, how could she possibly know that? She heard what she described as the scream of a child during the timeframe that it is estimated the murder occurred.