The ransom note & Patsy Ramsey, letter by letter.

[Edmond.DantesIII]

This to me says the Ramsey's did not write it.
They write the note leave the pad and then replace the pen? No one who is trying to stage anything would do this. No one. I'm sorry but to me this says set up.
It also says to me that whoever did was in this house before. And could have taken pad and pen and replaced them.

Correct, just as no one trying to stage a kidnapping as a cover up for filicide does not first get rid of the body.

It makes no sense whatsoever for the Ramseys NOT to get rid of the body, along with the pad and pen used to write the ransom note.

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

If someone cannot be excluded, (like everyone else was excluded) AND was present in the house at the time of the incident - then they should absolutely be investigated completely.

But they should not be your primary suspect during the critically important first days of your investigation, especially when there is considerable evidence to suggest that they didn't do it.

The BPD bungled this case, and they bungled it badly. It should not have taken them more than half an hour after the body was discovered in the basement to surmise that this was most likely a burglary gone wrong. This should have been their primary avenue of investigation from Day One to Day 364; but instead of that, they went after the surviving victims!

Sixteen years and still waiting.

Unfortunately, you will likely be waiting a lot longer.

 

[wengr]

Correct, just as no one trying to stage a kidnapping as a cover up for filicide does not first get rid of the body.

How would an R know that if they were to take the body out and stash it away from the house in the trunk of a car that it would not snow?
Obviously they know if it snows even a little it's game over.
Like you have stated before, the R's are not stupid. Panicked, stressed, and tired I would suspect, but not stupid.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

How would an R know that if they were to take the body out and stash it away from the house in the trunk of a car that it would not snow?
Obviously they know if it snows even a little it's game over.
Like you have stated before, the R's are not stupid. Panicked, stressed, and tired I would suspect, but not stupid.

Okay, This is a stretch for me. They killed their daughter and want to get rid of the body but are thinking what if it snows?? I don't think that would enter their mind.

These are not career criminals. I just don't see this explanation for not removing the body if they had done it.

 

[Tricia]

I'll try again.

1. Except that this was not a real ransom note. A real ransom note is written before or after the kidnapping. What is more, the victim is usually taken by the kidnappers when they leave. It makes it so much easier to demand a ransom that way.





Again, the weight of the evidence favors no one in the Ramsey household as being the author of the note. Once you accept this fact, the intelligent thing to do is follow the obvious logical deduction. This takes us to paragraph 2:


2. Therefore, there was something else going on here; and if the Ramseys did not write the RN (and that is what the weight of the evidence suggests), logic dictates that it was written by an intruder or intruders. It then stands to reason that these intruders were motivated by something other than kidnapping, for if kidnapping was their motive, they would have taken JonBenet with them.


Do you follow so far? If so, we can move on to paragraphs 3 and 4:


3. And given the FACT that the Ramseys were leaving in the morning to vacation in Michigan, it is not too big a stretch to wonder if the real motive of the intruders was burglary, but they showed up a day too early and ended up being discovered by JonBenet.

4. As for the ransom demand matching JR's bonus, well that is simply more evidence that the intruders were close enough to the Ramsey family to be privy to information regarding their finances, as well as their travel plans.


I hope this was helpful.

Here is the problem, For me to accept that someone other than Patsy wrote the note I would have to suspend my logic and the logic of so many intellegent people who agree with me. Therefore we can't get past this point and the rest of the discussion will never go anywhere.

Unless you can come up with hard core black and white evidence showing that the letters in the Ransom note DO NOT match Patsy's handwriting then the discussion stops there.

Just one example from the note. Do you know anyone who makes their Q's look like the number 8?

 

[wengr]

But they should not be your primary suspect during the critically important first days of your investigation, especially when there is considerable evidence to suggest that they didn't do it.

It's typical for parents to be investigated and yet cases are often solved in the end.

The BPD bungled this case, and they bungled it badly. It should not have taken them more than half an hour after the body was discovered in the basement to surmise that this was most likely a burglary gone wrong. This should have been their primary avenue of investigation from Day One to Day 364; but instead of that, they went after the surviving victims!

Well that is one opinion. But let's put our opinions of police perfomance aside for a moment and ponder this:
How hard is it for JR, PR, the entire RST, Lou Smit, etc. to find the common denomitator here:
Familiar to JBR
Gains entry without force
Knows bonus amount
Knows travel plans
Knows house interior layout
Can find items (pen, pad), in the dark house as needed
Knowledge of JBR's favorite things, including a gift of that morning
Possibly subsequently murdered

It would seem by your logic that we have a keystone family, keystone advisors, and a keystone DA office investigator.

 

[Tricia]

Something else I never understood. How do they know for a fact that the pad it was written on was originally in the Ramsey house and not brought and left by Intruder?

The Ramseys admitted it was their notebook and pen.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The Ramseys admitted it was their notebook and pen.

Thank you. Somehow I missed that!

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

How would an R know that if they were to take the body out and stash it away from the house in the trunk of a car that it would not snow?
Obviously they know if it snows even a little it's game over.
Like you have stated before, the R's are not stupid. Panicked, stressed, and tired I would suspect, but not stupid.

I can only guess at what you are trying to say.

Unless the Ramseys are irretrievably stupid, dumping the body somewhere other than the basement of the home--whether or not it is snowing, sleeting, or raining cats and dogs--is the obvious better move, no matter how panicked, stressed, or tired they may be.

BTW: This brings up another point which needs to be observed. This was Christmas Night. John and Patsy have a nine year old son and a six year old daughter. By Christmas Night, after all the energy expended between Thanksgiving and Christmas Day, particularly after being up late on Christmas Eve putting toys out for the children, the first thing parents want to do, after all the Christmas Day festivities are finally over, is go upstairs, go to bed, and enjoy a nice long sleep. They usually do not molest their children, nor smash their children's skull in, nor garrote their children to death. Even if they happen to be criminally insane in just such a way as to have such proclivities, they are way too exhausted by Christmas Night to act on them.

 

[Whaleshark]

This to me says the Ramsey's did not write it.
They write the note leave the pad and then replace the pen? No one who is trying to stage anything would do this. No one. I'm sorry but to me this says set up.
It also says to me that whoever did was in this house before. And could have taken pad and pen and replaced them.

When John Ramsey was asked by Michael Cane in testimony that I recently posted, if John Ramsey thought they were being set up, in regards to the ransom note, he said 'No'.

You should be able to find that earlier in this thread, I believe.

 

[Whaleshark]

I can only guess at what you are trying to say.

Unless the Ramseys are irretrievably stupid, dumping the body somewhere other than the basement of the home--whether or not it is snowing, sleeting, or raining cats and dogs--is the obvious better move, no matter how panicked, stressed, or tired they may be.

BTW: This brings up another point which needs to be observed. This was Christmas Night. John and Patsy have a nine year old son and a six year old daughter. By Christmas Night, after all the energy expended between Thanksgiving and Christmas Day, particularly after being up late on Christmas Eve putting toys out for the children, the first thing parents want to do, after all the Christmas Day festivities are finally over, is go upstairs, go to bed, and enjoy a nice long sleep. They usually do not molest their children, nor smash their children's skull in, nor garrote their children to death. Even if they happen to be criminally insane in just such a way as to have such proclivities, they are way too exhausted by Christmas Night to act on them.

You speak of special pleading, but then presume to know what every parent in general would do, criminally insane or not, due to their exhaustion level that you personally know of on this particular night.

I wish I had your level of omniscience. For then, everything would all be figured out.

How can one argue with such knowledge?

I think you've got it solved.

P.S. - you'll find one example of special pleading is 'claims to data that is unverifiable'.... You must recognize that unless you are omniscient, you cannot claim to know what every single parent would do on Christmas evening - exhausted, criminally insane, stressed out or otherwise...

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

Here is the problem, For me to accept that someone other than Patsy wrote the note I would have to suspend my logic and the logic of so many intellegent people who agree with me. Therefore we can't get past this point and the rest of the discussion will never go anywhere.

Unless you can come up with hard core black and white evidence showing that the letters in the Ransom note DO NOT match Patsy's handwriting then the discussion stops there.

Just one example from the note. Do you know anyone who makes their Q's look like the number 8?

No, Tricia, unless you can come up with hardcore, black and white, expert analyses attesting to a high degree of probability that Patsy is the author of the note, sans multiple prior determinations of expert caliber attesting to the high degree of probability that she is NOT the author, then neither you, nor anyone else, should err on the side of Patsy being the author, particularly when her own six year-old daughter is the brutally murdered victim. This is not just the logically correct position to take, it is also the humanely compassionate position to take. Indeed, the suspension of logic occurs when you attempt to convince yourself that Patsy wrote the note, while being well aware of the considerable expert testimony attesting to her having not written it.

 

[pukasonqo2]

long time lurker and jusr recent poster but here are my 2 cents for what they are worth:
stranger or know associate of the Rs comes in when everyone is asleep, practices ransom note on a very conveniently left note pad with a pen at his/her leisure and tries to make it look like PR's writing
gets JB, gives her (or not) a snack, molests her (or not), navigates around a strange house, takes dead or unconscious child to a hard to find room, undresses her, cleans her up, finds unopened pack of larger undies, dresses her up again, drops ramson note in the staircase and is considerate enough that not a sound is heard by anyone??? walks in a dark house with or without the aid of a torch with not a problem and manages to take a 6 year old from her bedroom with no one hearing a thing?
that doesn't add up to me.
hope it makes sense, english is my second language

 

[Tricia]

No, Tricia, unless you can come up with hardcore, black and white, expert analyses attesting to a high degree of probability that Patsy is the author of the note, sans multiple prior determinations of expert caliber attesting to the high degree of probability that she is NOT the author, then neither you, nor anyone else, should err on the side of Patsy being the author, particularly when her own six year-old daughter is the brutally murdered victim. This is not just the logically correct position to take, it is also the humanely compassionate position to take. Indeed, the suspension of logic occurs when you attempt to convince yourself that Patsy wrote the note, while being well aware of the considerable expert testimony attesting to her having not written it.

The problem is all the experts I know who have said Patsy wrote the note are experts you will choose not to believe.


No one will ever say that they are 100 percent certain Patsy wrote the note. That's not how it works. Wait, Gideon Epstien said he was 100 percent sure Patsy wrote the note and the judge disqualified him for testifying in a civil suit if IIRC.

What do you think of the letter "q" I posted?

Here is an interesting article about Cina Wong and the Ransom Note

http://www.cinawongforgeryexpert.com/mediaroom_vapilot.asp

 

[wengr]

Okay, This is a stretch for me. They killed their daughter and want to get rid of the body but are thinking what if it snows?? I don't think that would enter their mind.

These are not career criminals. I just don't see this explanation for not removing the body if they had done it.

I don't see how one needs to be a career criminal to know that tire tracks leading to your garage on the morning that your child is missing is a problem. And btw, Imo the R's would likely be more intelligent than most career criminals.

 

[SyraKelly]

Even John said they could not excluded Pasty as the writer-he also said some of the writing looked like hers..in an interview I saw on FFJ this week..does anyone know that interview?

 

[Whaleshark]

Yes, he did.... And he also said he did NOT believe they were being set up by the ransom note writer to make it look purposely like Patsy wrote it either... As noted in the testimony answers to Prosecutor Michael Cane.

 

[OpenMind4U]

long time lurker and jusr recent poster but here are my 2 cents for what they are worth:
stranger or know associate of the Rs comes in when everyone is asleep, practices ransom note on a very conveniently left note pad with a pen at his/her leisure and tries to make it look like PR's writing
gets JB, gives her (or not) a snack, molests her (or not), navigates around a strange house, takes dead or unconscious child to a hard to find room, undresses her, cleans her up, finds unopened pack of larger undies, dresses her up again, drops ramson note in the staircase and is considerate enough that not a sound is heard by anyone??? walks in a dark house with or without the aid of a torch with not a problem and manages to take a 6 year old from her bedroom with no one hearing a thing?
that doesn't add up to me.
hope it makes sense, english is my second language

WELCOME to our friendly, world loving family!!!!! (english is my second language also

 

[OpenMind4U]

Even John said they could not excluded Pasty as the writer-he also said some of the writing looked like hers..in an interview I saw on FFJ this week..does anyone know that interview?

SyraKelly, this was quoted from 'Police Files' book of Patsy and John interviews with BPD. You can read these interviews on ACR site.

But I would highly recommend to buy this book. The used one is very cheap, like $2-$3 max....plus book has nice photos...plus you can highlight sentenses for further reference.

Amazon has it, Ebay has...:seeya:

 

[SyraKelly]

LOL-OMG-I did not know Pasty told Steve T that she did not know the RN was written on her pad!!What a crock!!

John Ramsey: "Well, the way it was explained to us was that there were certain things that we all learned, when we learned how to write, that are kind of common and that's the kind of things that were there, apparently, in Patsy's samples that they just couldn't say totally exclude it.

""What the CBI examiner told them, very privately, was astonding. Twenty-four of the alphabet's twenty-six letters looked as if they had been written by Patsy. When taken together, the tablet, the Sharpie pen, and the writing formed a powerful base of evidence. And that evidence pointed directly to Patsy Ramsey."