The Remains Discovery "Daisy Chain"

[The World According]

I posted the following piece of speculation yesterday evening but it kind of got swamped by a blizzard of other posts. I think it is interesting to stand back and see if we can trace the true "daisy chain" of information that led to the remains discovery, whether it be LP's theory or some other theory.

What follows is my theory - updated since I posted last night.

What we know is Kiomarie was interviewed at nearly 10PM on July 19. Kio grew up on Hopespring drive and her dad still lives there. Kio has a friend named Bailey who also lives on Hopespring very close to the Anthony's. Bailey had already spoken to Brian B. and learned he had spoken to LE about the shovel. So Kio and Brian get to talking about KC, and when Kio heard about the shovel, she starts thinking about the secret hiding area off Suburban. Bailey calls Brian and gets the detective's phone number, gives it to Kio, and Kio calls the detective. :clap:

Neighbors are obviously talking. It probably does not take long for word to spread about Kio's interview and suspicions about the woods off Suburban. Maybe neighbors kind of are convinced that the area is a high-probability area, but are afraid to spend a lot of time searching themselves because 1) they are neighbors and 2) they figure LE will be able to do it. :waitasec:

So LE does an initial search of the accessible areas (some of it was too wet), and they come up empty. TES comes out and searches same area - no luck. Problem is - as we know today - the body was not quite in the spot Kio had pointed out. In fact it was several hundred yards away, up the street close to Hopespring. :bang:

Neighbors though remain convinced that area is a highly probable area. They know of Kio's story. They know of the shovel. They know TES and LE could not get into all areas. They are unconvinced the unsuccessful searches to date have ruled out the area. :snooty:

Now throw into the mix speculation that the MR's supervisor is also a neighbor of the Anthony's. Since neighbor's are talking and still think the body could be found up there, the supervisor speaks to his good buddy the MR and asks him to take a look when he does his route. He may even have assigned him specifically to do that route in August just because he is trusted. An official utility vehicle parked up in that area would not look suspicious. :angel:

So the MR takes a look and finds a suspicious-looking bag. We know he called it in three times, and the bag was not located:

1. LE first says they searched and cleared the area (as noted above, they cleared an area several hundred yards away).
2. They go out again (possibly with a dog) and find nothing. Unknown exactly were this was done, but probably still a hundred yards or so away. If one listens to the MR 911 calls, the location description is vague enough to allow LE to miss the spot.
3. They go out a third and final time. MR points to the area and LE heads back, sees a big rattlesnake, and decides it might be best to come back later. Oh, and by the way, there is loads of garbage back there.

Fay comes in, floods the area, and no searches can be done until early November. Note that rumor has it Kronk was not on that route in Sept., Oct., or Nov., implying to me someone assigned to him that route to check things out.

This next bit of speculation is going to infuriate a lot of Lee haters here when they read what I am thinking. :scream: (I think Lee is getting a bum rap from the public).

Meantime, Lee, I believe, is not drinking the KC Koolaide the way Cindy is. He knows KC did something. He does not know the details, but has suspicions, and does his best to pull information from KC without raising her ire and having her shut him out. He loved Caylee and wants to know the truth. He gets enough KC code to believe her body is nearby, but again no details. :detective:

Lee becomes aware of Kio's and the neighbor's suspicions. With what KC implied, the general location makes perfect sense. He knows LE and TES searched in that area but maybe they were not in the right spot. Maybe he is involved in lining up other silent searches, including that of the MR, or maybe he just hears about the MR's finding and subsequent failure of LE to locate the body. On the one hand he knows LE and others have searched and declared it clear - should trust that coming from LE, right?? On the other hand, the MR did say he found something. After Fay, this gets filed in the back of his mind.

Meanwhile, Lee loves his mom but feels she is in a deep denial over KC's crime. He knows - feels - KC did something to Caylee. While mom is stuck in the first stage of grief (denial), Lee is entering the second stage (anger). It shows as he tries to protect the parents he loves, and the public backlash is vicious. He starts to drop from public view. He does not want to get caught up in the maelstrom Cindy is creating.

In early Nov. TES finally can get out and do a search. But they find nothing and pull out earlier than expected.

Bewildered, Lee talks to the PI working for his parents. I speculate the conversation went something like this:


Lee convinces PI Casey that Caylee is dead and they need to look for a body. So the two PIs hike up there two times to look and video-tape, and PI Casey goes up another two times alone. The information they have is that Caylee's body was found in August, but not recovered. They find nothing. PI Casey calls Lee several times and asks if he can help nail the exact spot down, because they are not seeing anything but thick brush and unrelated trash. Given only 10 minutes of video were recorded, none of the searches may have been very long.

They are very close, but not quite in the right spot, and they fail to locate the remains. They report back to Lee: nothing. :banghead:

Nejame catches wind that Lee sent the PIs up there and he decides he has had enough. Time to bail out. It appears the Anthony's privately think the child is dead but publicly berate LE for not searching for a live Caylee. Well, Lee believes she is dead, and probably George does too, but Cindy won't admit it. He's had enough and resigns. :furious:

At this point Lee is thinking: LE looked several times. TES looked several times. My PI looked several times. No one could find the bag. The only one who ever saw the bag was the MR. In order to put this thing to rest, we need him to look one more time.

Lee gets word back to the supervisor neighbor and tells him the PI's could find nothing. Can we get the MR back out there? So the supervisor reasigns the MR to the route and asks him to see if the bag is still there. The route is scheduled for the 11th of every month, so they have missed the November slot, but he'll be assigned to the route on Dec. 11.

The MR goes back on the route, finds the bag, sees the skull...and Caylee is brought home. :blowkiss:
Now one of the PIs brags to his good buddy LP about the trips they made to that same area and found nothing, and the circus begins again.

The key piece of the above puzzle is confirming or denying a link between the neighbors and the MR. The "supervisor as neighbor" is one possible link. Another possible link is "MR chats up neighbor". But a link needs to exist for the above theory to make sense.

The daisy chain, as I see it, is:

1. Kio - Bailey - Brian B. - Kio - detective - TES. Failure to find the remains starts a second chain.
2. Lee - neighbors - supervisor - MR - LE. Failure to find the remains starts a third chain.
3. TES. Failure to find the remains starts a fourth chain.
4. Lee - PI - Lee - supervisor - MR. Success.

IMHO

:rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker:
You , my friend, are brilliant!!

 

[Searchfortruth]

This brought back memories as well concerning the search in November. The article is from Dec. 30th, 2008.

"Investigators also want to talk to the Anthonys' private investigator who works with Hoover, Dominic Casey. The defense wants to intervene, because Dominic Casey used to work for the defense and attorney Jose Baez doesn't want him to divulge privileged information."

"Baez said investigators won't let him sit in on the questioning, so he's asking the judge to appoint a special master to protect defense secrets if the private eye agrees to talk.

"Investigators have tried to make arrangements with Mr. Casey to speak to him and he's not responded," Padilla said."

"The defense's spokesman said they don't want their former private eye to divulge privileged conversations they might have had about where Caylee's remains might be."

http://www.wftv.com/news/18380933/detail.html

The last paragraph, especially, says a lot to me.

 

[JWG]

So, irony of ironies ... Officer Cain (ye who was fired for not fully investigating the Kronk August calls) is the responding / investigating officer for the "gas can incident". Yowza :slap:

 

[christee]

Taken from the Myth Busters and Facts thread:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Myth Busters and Facts *LIST ONLY* NO DISCUSSION NO DISCUSSION


RK's supervior didn't live on Hopespring.

I'm glad I asked the question anyway! Thx RR!

 

[InspectorGadget]

I posted the following piece of speculation yesterday evening but it kind of got swamped by a blizzard of other posts. I think it is interesting to stand back and see if we can trace the true "daisy chain" of information that led to the remains discovery, whether it be LP's theory or some other theory.

What follows is my theory - updated since I posted last night.

What we know is Kiomarie was interviewed at nearly 10PM on July 19. Kio grew up on Hopespring drive and her dad still lives there. Kio has a friend named Bailey who also lives on Hopespring very close to the Anthony's. Bailey had already spoken to Brian B. and learned he had spoken to LE about the shovel. So Kio and Brian get to talking about KC, and when Kio heard about the shovel, she starts thinking about the secret hiding area off Suburban. Bailey calls Brian and gets the detective's phone number, gives it to Kio, and Kio calls the detective. :clap:

Neighbors are obviously talking. It probably does not take long for word to spread about Kio's interview and suspicions about the woods off Suburban. Maybe neighbors kind of are convinced that the area is a high-probability area, but are afraid to spend a lot of time searching themselves because 1) they are neighbors and 2) they figure LE will be able to do it. :waitasec:

So LE does an initial search of the accessible areas (some of it was too wet), and they come up empty. TES comes out and searches same area - no luck. Problem is - as we know today - the body was not quite in the spot Kio had pointed out. In fact it was several hundred yards away, up the street close to Hopespring. :bang:

Neighbors though remain convinced that area is a highly probable area. They know of Kio's story. They know of the shovel. They know TES and LE could not get into all areas. They are unconvinced the unsuccessful searches to date have ruled out the area. :snooty:

Now throw into the mix speculation that the MR's supervisor is also a neighbor of the Anthony's. Since neighbor's are talking and still think the body could be found up there, the supervisor speaks to his good buddy the MR and asks him to take a look when he does his route. He may even have assigned him specifically to do that route in August just because he is trusted. An official utility vehicle parked up in that area would not look suspicious. :angel:

So the MR takes a look and finds a suspicious-looking bag. We know he called it in three times, and the bag was not located:

1. LE first says they searched and cleared the area (as noted above, they cleared an area several hundred yards away).
2. They go out again (possibly with a dog) and find nothing. Unknown exactly were this was done, but probably still a hundred yards or so away. If one listens to the MR 911 calls, the location description is vague enough to allow LE to miss the spot.
3. They go out a third and final time. MR points to the area and LE heads back, sees a big rattlesnake, and decides it might be best to come back later. Oh, and by the way, there is loads of garbage back there.

Fay comes in, floods the area, and no searches can be done until early November. Note that rumor has it Kronk was not on that route in Sept., Oct., or Nov., implying to me someone assigned to him that route to check things out.

This next bit of speculation is going to infuriate a lot of Lee haters here when they read what I am thinking. :scream: (I think Lee is getting a bum rap from the public).

Meantime, Lee, I believe, is not drinking the KC Koolaide the way Cindy is. He knows KC did something. He does not know the details, but has suspicions, and does his best to pull information from KC without raising her ire and having her shut him out. He loved Caylee and wants to know the truth. He gets enough KC code to believe her body is nearby, but again no details. :detective:

Lee becomes aware of Kio's and the neighbor's suspicions. With what KC implied, the general location makes perfect sense. He knows LE and TES searched in that area but maybe they were not in the right spot. Maybe he is involved in lining up other silent searches, including that of the MR, or maybe he just hears about the MR's finding and subsequent failure of LE to locate the body. On the one hand he knows LE and others have searched and declared it clear - should trust that coming from LE, right?? On the other hand, the MR did say he found something. After Fay, this gets filed in the back of his mind.

Meanwhile, Lee loves his mom but feels she is in a deep denial over KC's crime. He knows - feels - KC did something to Caylee. While mom is stuck in the first stage of grief (denial), Lee is entering the second stage (anger). It shows as he tries to protect the parents he loves, and the public backlash is vicious. He starts to drop from public view. He does not want to get caught up in the maelstrom Cindy is creating.

In early Nov. TES finally can get out and do a search. But they find nothing and pull out earlier than expected.

Bewildered, Lee talks to the PI working for his parents. I speculate the conversation went something like this:


Lee convinces PI Casey that Caylee is dead and they need to look for a body. So the two PIs hike up there two times to look and video-tape, and PI Casey goes up another two times alone. The information they have is that Caylee's body was found in August, but not recovered. They find nothing. PI Casey calls Lee several times and asks if he can help nail the exact spot down, because they are not seeing anything but thick brush and unrelated trash. Given only 10 minutes of video were recorded, none of the searches may have been very long.

They are very close, but not quite in the right spot, and they fail to locate the remains. They report back to Lee: nothing. :banghead:

Nejame catches wind that Lee sent the PIs up there and he decides he has had enough. Time to bail out. It appears the Anthony's privately think the child is dead but publicly berate LE for not searching for a live Caylee. Well, Lee believes she is dead, and probably George does too, but Cindy won't admit it. He's had enough and resigns. :furious:

At this point Lee is thinking: LE looked several times. TES looked several times. My PI looked several times. No one could find the bag. The only one who ever saw the bag was the MR. In order to put this thing to rest, we need him to look one more time.

Lee gets word back to the supervisor neighbor and tells him the PI's could find nothing. Can we get the MR back out there? So the supervisor reasigns the MR to the route and asks him to see if the bag is still there. The route is scheduled for the 11th of every month, so they have missed the November slot, but he'll be assigned to the route on Dec. 11.

The MR goes back on the route, finds the bag, sees the skull...and Caylee is brought home. :blowkiss:
Now one of the PIs brags to his good buddy LP about the trips they made to that same area and found nothing, and the circus begins again.

The key piece of the above puzzle is confirming or denying a link between the neighbors and the MR. The "supervisor as neighbor" is one possible link. Another possible link is "MR chats up neighbor". But a link needs to exist for the above theory to make sense.

The daisy chain, as I see it, is:

1. Kio - Bailey - Brian B. - Kio - detective - TES. Failure to find the remains starts a second chain.
2. Lee - neighbors - supervisor - MR - LE. Failure to find the remains starts a third chain.
3. TES. Failure to find the remains starts a fourth chain.
4. Lee - PI - Lee - supervisor - MR. Success.

IMHO

Now that makes sense. I could never understand why Nejame felt he should pay Kronk!

 

[Novice Seeker]

JWG, I agree, to an extent, with your sequence of events. What I, most respectfully, disagree with is LA and his motives. From reading the interviews of the family, I didn't get an impression that Lee was overly attached to Caylee. Up until this event Lee was having little contact with the family, especially after KC stole from him. Remember Cindy's birthday?? Lee came over briefly b/c he had other plans. Then there's Father's day. Where was Lee?? What did he do to show appreciation for his father?

What baffles me is why both George and Lee will not, can not acknowledge what is the truth. Why do both of these men seem terrified of going against Cindy?? If Lee did know the truth why hasn't he stepped forward for Caylee? Why does everyone in this family care more about KC & Cindy then they do for their own grand daughter and niece who was murdered???


(subject change, sorry)
Wonder if LP considers Tracy's betrayal as part of the Daisy Chain? I am curious about how LP has dealt with her betrayal. Does he have any legal recourse? Could this be used to strip LP's team of any credibility?

Ughh, why does everything have to be so complicated??? It is or it isn't....

Novice Seeker

 

[Tuffy]

JWG, I agree, to an extent, with your sequence of events. What I, most respectfully, disagree with is LA and his motives. From reading the interviews of the family, I didn't get an impression that Lee was overly attached to Caylee. Up until this event Lee was having little contact with the family, especially after KC stole from him. Remember Cindy's birthday?? Lee came over briefly b/c he had other plans. Then there's Father's day. Where was Lee?? What did he do to show appreciation for his father?

What baffles me is why both George and Lee will not, can not acknowledge what is the truth. Why do both of these men seem terrified of going against Cindy?? If Lee did know the truth why hasn't he stepped forward for Caylee? Why does everyone in this family care more about KC & Cindy then they do for their own grand daughter and niece who was murdered???


(subject change, sorry)
Wonder if LP considers Tracy's betrayal as part of the Daisy Chain? I am curious about how LP has dealt with her betrayal. Does he have any legal recourse? Could this be used to strip LP's team of any credibility?

Ughh, why does everything have to be so complicated??? It is or it isn't....

Novice Seeker

Novice Seeker, your last sentence in the bolded paragraph answers your question. Lee cares more about Casey, than he ever did about Caylee. Remember the memorial, all the CMAs and crying from him? If it were the other way around and they cared more for Caylee, I think we would see Lee being alot more forthcoming with information. I think we would see much more candid talk about what happened in that house leading up to the 16th.

 

[chefmom]

JWG, I agree, to an extent, with your sequence of events. What I, most respectfully, disagree with is LA and his motives. From reading the interviews of the family, I didn't get an impression that Lee was overly attached to Caylee. Up until this event Lee was having little contact with the family, especially after KC stole from him. Remember Cindy's birthday?? Lee came over briefly b/c he had other plans. Then there's Father's day. Where was Lee?? What did he do to show appreciation for his father?

What baffles me is why both George and Lee will not, can not acknowledge what is the truth. Why do both of these men seem terrified of going against Cindy?? If Lee did know the truth why hasn't he stepped forward for Caylee? Why does everyone in this family care more about KC & Cindy then they do for their own grand daughter and niece who was murdered???


(subject change, sorry)
Wonder if LP considers Tracy's betrayal as part of the Daisy Chain? I am curious about how LP has dealt with her betrayal. Does he have any legal recourse? Could this be used to strip LP's team of any credibility?

Ughh, why does everything have to be so complicated??? It is or it isn't....

Novice Seeker

BBM

Did I miss something? Can you direct me to the "betrayal" part? I think I missed something somewhere along the way? TIA!

 

[Novice Seeker]

Novice Seeker, your last sentence in the bolded paragraph answers your question. Lee cares more about Casey, than he ever did about Caylee. Remember the memorial, all the CMAs and crying from him? If it were the other way around and they cared more for Caylee, I think we would see Lee being alot more forthcoming with information. I think we would see much more candid talk about what happened in that house leading up to the 16th.

I absolutely agree with where Lee placed his loyalty which is why I don't believe he was the person behind the scenedirecting any sort of search for Caylee.

After a year of watching these two men literally shake in their shoes for fear of Cindy's wrath, I still can't comprehend it. What power does she posse that makes every man who comes into contact with her forget their manhood??


Novice Seeker

 

[Novice Seeker]

BBM

Did I miss something? Can you direct me to the "betrayal" part? I think I missed something somewhere along the way? TIA!

It's in the documents which the SA had to threaten George and Cindy with a subpoena for them to turn them over. Here's a hint....communications b/w Cindy and DC.


Novice Seeker

 

[The World According]

:rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker:
You , my friend, are brilliant!!

I agree with you JWG, this is the most likely scenerio. I have one lady on my block who seems to know more about my mother in law visits than I do ( apparently chats her up when out for a morning walk, oh my). Neighbors do talk, and especially when something traumatic happens and they are all out en mass. Absolutely.

I do think Lee is getting a bum rap by some. To me, he is the only one who has told the same story. Go back to the very first phone call from jail, Lee tells her Casey cut the BS, here is a direct quote:

""I'm not going around and around with you," Lee Anthony said. "You know, that is pretty pointless. I'm not going to put everyone else through the same stuff that you've been putting the police and everybody else for the last 24 hours and the stuff you've been putting mom through for the last four or five weeks. I'm done with that. So, you can tell me what's going on. Kristina would love to talk to you because she thinks you will tell her what's going on. Frankly, we are going to find out, whatever is going on is going to be found out. So, why not do it now?" [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhUbC7cmtFY&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

He was not afraid of Cindy or Casey. He seems to me to be the only one who actually was searching trying to investigate the folks and the story Casey gave. I believe he tried very hard and came to the conclusion that his initial gut instinct that it was all lies turned out to be true. Maybe he hoped he had enough to help his mom come to understand.

If you compare his ZFG depo to George and Cindy it is day and night. Cindy is saying yes I have heard of Zannyr for years in my home. Lee makes no such lie up. Lee empties the bucket with the truth... no never even heard the name,yes I caught Casey in many lies ( saying she was in Tampa, etc. ) In M. Furhman's book he tells that Lee was indeed convinced that Casey had some responsibility or at least knew what happened to Caylee and he was wanting to know the truth. Even to Tony, Lee discussed that while it was not in her nature to murder, he is trying to figure out if an accident happened and she panicked. I think he never was as delusional as Cindy. He wasn't sure exactly what happened but he had very serious concerns and your theory that he would have discussed those ideas and threw around possible places close to home to look is absolutely possible. He discussed things with LP and Rob Dick, Jesse and who knows who else.He admitted in his depo he discussed a lot of things with Jose, often,a nd Dominic.

I think the reason that Dominic tried to put him on as employee (remember that, he e mailed him asking him, telling him he would sponsor Lee to become a PI, Lee didn't respond, so Dom e mailed to Cindy to try to push Lee to do it), he wanted Lee to do this so that Lee too would be under the wing of the imagined "confidentiality agreement" and thus protected from testifying.

I feel bad for Lee out of all of this cast of characters because in the end it likely was Lee on at least one of those phone calls to Dom in the woods. When Dom finally testifies to the State( I think the state deposed him already and it is not publicly known because they do not release those investigative depos according to the recent hearing) I believe he will be forced to admit that Lee did at one time or another mention to him that the woods would be a likely place. LP guessed our little Casey was not going anywhere far or digging any graves, she just wasn't going to have exerted herself, and LP only knew her a few days. Surely this was not lost on her own brother and she kept telling him close to home, places we know, places we are familiar with, practically hitting him over the head with the she's still local clues.

There was one interview (I hope one of you can help me find it) where Cindy is outside and yelling and really having at it with reporters, she slipped up and said something to the effect of if it were proven that something were found AFTER Casey went to jail that would prove.... she stopped herself. That sounded like an idea Baez had put in her mind, that if the body was to be found, theoretically, now would be a good time. I knew then that she KNEW FOR SURE the baby was dead. It is obvious that alone in the bedroom with Casey at night (when she was out on bail) Grandma got to the truth. NO WAY COULD I EVER BELIEVE THAT CINDY DID NOT GRILL HER EVERY NIGHT, ALL NIGHT THOSE EIGHT DAYS. ABSOLUTELY.

The family and friends and neighbors and church members and perfect strangers theorized, and I find your theory very possible. Even if you remove the MR supervisor, just neighbors talking could have gotten Kronk there to look. I live in one of the largest cities in the US, but I have friends from one side of it to the other and it always seems that everyone knows everyone.

It is the only reason I can imagine that Luca was on national TV mind you saying that it was possible Lee could be charged with aiding after the fact or obstruction, is that Lee knew he had mentioned the possible location to Dom, and that would seem very suspect. LE looked into Lee every which way but Sunday, even wiring up Tony, I believe they came to the conclusion that I agree with while Lee may have suggested the possibility, it was a guess and he had absolutely nothing to do with the murder of that baby. Otherwise brother would be sitting in jail right now, trust me. I believe he will take the stand and tell the truth. I am holding out hope for Lee to do the right thing by Caylee. I am.

PS: New Junkie, your chart is amazing![ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRn1sCHVFrs[/ame]

 

[Tuffy]

I absolutely agree with where Lee placed his loyalty which is why I don't believe he was the person behind the scenedirecting any sort of search for Caylee.

After a year of watching these two men literally shake in their shoes for fear of Cindy's wrath, I still can't comprehend it. What power does she posse that makes every man who comes into contact with her forget their manhood??


Novice Seeker

I agree with you too. I don't think Lee was responsible for the search either. I am also baffled by Cindy's effect on men. It just saddens me how many people turned their backs on Caylee. They should have been on her side.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

So, irony of ironies ... Officer Cain (ye who was fired for not fully investigating the Kronk August calls) is the responding / investigating officer for the "gas can incident". Yowza :slap:

Yes, that does make one go: "Hummmm!" Doesn't it! LOL I am very visual and that is why I made the chart and keep adding to it - Things like that pop out and help me see POSSIBLE connections.

PS - I was not sure if I could bump your post so I am glad that The World According bumped it! Very well written and insightful!!!!

 

[The World According]

So, irony of ironies ... Officer Cain (ye who was fired for not fully investigating the Kronk August calls) is the responding / investigating officer for the "gas can incident". Yowza :slap:

Hold on to your seat, iirc, he furthermore was the same officer who came out when the guy found the bag of stuffed animals in the woods and the father's day balloon that he took to Cindy, she dismissed and he called the cops to the woods.

Does anyone remember that, was it Cain? Must be the Anthony area is his beat as it were.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

-----------> Snip

I think the reason that Dominic tried to put him on as employee (remember that, he e mailed him asking him, telling him he would sponsor Lee to become a PI, Lee didn't respond, so Dom e mailed to Cindy to try to push Lee to do it), he wanted Lee to do this so that Lee too would be under the wing of the imagined "confidentiality agreement" and thus protected from testifying.

-------> snip

There was one interview (I hope one of you can help me find it) where Cindy is outside and yelling and really having at it with reporters, she slipped up and said something to the effect of if it were proven that something were found AFTER Casey went to jail that would prove.... she stopped herself. That sounded like an idea Baez had put in her mind, that if the body was to be found, theoretically, now would be a good time. I knew then that she KNEW FOR SURE the baby was dead. It is obvious that alone in the bedroom with Casey at night (when she was out on bail) Grandma got to the truth. NO WAY COULD I EVER BELIEVE THAT CINDY DID NOT GRILL HER EVERY NIGHT, ALL NIGHT THOSE EIGHT DAYS. ABSOLUTELY.

----------->

I am holding out hope for Lee to do the right thing by Caylee. I am.

PS: New Junkie, your chart is amazing!

Snipped a ton of GREAT stuff to address just a few points!

First, Thank you for compliment about chart. I will add to it as I get concrete dates that might be relevant to this microdrama (I just made that word up! LOL) .

First paragraph -- I TOTALLY agree - DC wanted LA to be an employee to.... excuse the literal pun, but to CMA. If he could sign him on he could call all discussions "work product" and thus make anything Lee talked about to ANYONE possibly exempt from testimony.

Next paragraph of yours: I am going nuts trying to find that - yes, I do remember it! In the meantime, stroll down memory lane with me on other 'foo-paws' (I might have made that word up too! LOL) that several have made....

First, I found the "hammer" video and wanted to add that I found this line from Cindy compelling: "The person who was in the back of my daughters car was not my grand daughter"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P40IMgkONXk[/ame]

I also found this memorable press conference buster event where Kathi B refers to that comment made by the A's. http://www.wftv.com/video/20483066/index.html
Another thing that made me feel that they knew was Georges interview where he said: snippits from: http://www.wftv.com/news/17944895/detail.html
"My, my heart is killing me right now to say it's going into my granddaughter is not, no longer alive," he said (listen to full interview).

and.....
Casey's father George told investigators, "I don't want to believe that I have, have raised someone and brought someone in this world that could do something to another person. I don't want to believe that."
and.......
But George also told sheriff's investigators that the very first night they found out Caylee was missing, Cindy told him, "We lost her. We lost her." When he asked who, she said "Caylee."
He also said, if he lost his granddaughter, he'd probably lose Casey, too.


Oh and how can we forget Cindy in her voicemail (left after KC arrest in July) to LE that if she believed her daughter KC had help and there are people who know information. And Annie Downing also told police if Casey Anthony was involved she did not act alone.

I too hold out hope that Lee or someone will rise to the occasion and give Caylee back her voice and do it with the truth. IMHO, if a victims family doesn't advocate for the victim they are just re-victimized and I am baffled at how they look in the mirror if that is the case.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

Hold on to your seat, iirc, he furthermore was the same officer who came out when the guy found the bag of stuffed animals in the woods and the father's day balloon that he took to Cindy, she dismissed and he called the cops to the woods.

Does anyone remember that, was it Cain? Must be the Anthony area is his beat as it were.

Yes - it was none other than CAIN too! Badge # 4578 and he leaves the bag at the scene.
His name kept coming up and then we had at least three psychics, four if count both sisters ( Gail, Suzanne Vincent and Jean Mckenzie Vincent -- the sisters, and Ginny(working with DC)....

Then we had......... former PI's and bounty hunters.... Hoover, DC and Kronk

Then we had.........numerous friends and neighbors we know were there or close......... Kio, Keith(at least three times he places himself there), the teens
who were told what they found was old bomb ( I don't know the RO on that one, but wouldn't it be curious if......)

Just so many groups all in the same area - as if the word was put out to look there. Could be nothing, but until we have something concrete it will drive me nuts! I like to exclude things so I know what to include in my processing!

 

[Novice Seeker]

Snipped a ton of GREAT stuff to address just a few points!

First, Thank you for compliment about chart. I will add to it as I get concrete dates that might be relevant to this microdrama (I just made that word up! LOL) .

First paragraph -- I TOTALLY agree - DC wanted LA to be an employee to.... excuse the literal pun, but to CMA. If he could sign him on he could call all discussions "work product" and thus make anything Lee talked about to ANYONE possibly exempt from testimony.

Next paragraph of yours: I am going nuts trying to find that - yes, I do remember it! In the meantime, stroll down memory lane with me on other 'foo-paws' (I might have made that word up too! LOL) that several have made....

First, I found the "hammer" video and wanted to add that I found this line from Cindy compelling: "The person who was in the back of my daughters car was not my grand daughter"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P40IMgkONXk

I also found this memorable press conference buster event where Kathi B refers to that comment made by the A's. http://www.wftv.com/video/20483066/index.html
Another thing that made me feel that they knew was Georges interview where he said: snippits from: http://www.wftv.com/news/17944895/detail.html
"My, my heart is killing me right now to say it's going into my granddaughter is not, no longer alive," he said (listen to full interview).

and.....
Casey's father George told investigators, "I don't want to believe that I have, have raised someone and brought someone in this world that could do something to another person. I don't want to believe that."
and.......
But George also told sheriff's investigators that the very first night they found out Caylee was missing, Cindy told him, "We lost her. We lost her." When he asked who, she said "Caylee."He also said, if he lost his granddaughter, he'd probably lose Casey, too.

Oh and how can we forget Cindy in her voicemail (left after KC arrest in July) to LE that if she believed her daughter KC had help and there are people who know information. And Annie Downing also told police if Casey Anthony was involved she did not act alone.

I too hold out hope that Lee or someone will rise to the occasion and give Caylee back her voice and do it with the truth. IMHO, if a victims family doesn't advocate for the victim they are just re-victimized and I am baffled at how they look in the mirror if that is the case.

Bolded by me: This will be as close as any member of this family will come to what actually happened to Caylee. Their daughter murdered Caylee.(IMO) As to Lee, I lost any hope of him stepping up for Caylee during his initial interview with LE. His annoying and inappropriate laughter about something as heinous as the murder of a sweet child, his own niece. After he smelled that death smell in KC's car Lee knew. Lee also knew that KC lied, stole and manipulated everyone. What has he done for Caylee??

Novice Seeker

 

[knt]

This brought back memories as well concerning the search in November. The article is from Dec. 30th, 2008.

"Investigators also want to talk to the Anthonys' private investigator who works with Hoover, Dominic Casey. The defense wants to intervene, because Dominic Casey used to work for the defense and attorney Jose Baez doesn't want him to divulge privileged information."

"Baez said investigators won't let him sit in on the questioning, so he's asking the judge to appoint a special master to protect defense secrets if the private eye agrees to talk.

"Investigators have tried to make arrangements with Mr. Casey to speak to him and he's not responded," Padilla said."

"The defense's spokesman said they don't want their former private eye to divulge privileged conversations they might have had about where Caylee's remains might be."

http://www.wftv.com/news/18380933/detail.html

The last paragraph, especially, says a lot to me.

Your bolded portion says it all!!

 

[cloud9]

I am with you on this. I strongly feel that LP knows a lot more than we think and he has to keep silent for now. He may throw some bone's out there to see who will come out and fetch them. LP may not be a liberty to say all now, but I feel once this case goes to trial we will understand why he was brought to Orlando to bond Casey out...people tend to forget, it was not his idea to come bond her out, he was requested to come out by two individuals. With that said, his theories may be off at times, just like most of our theories. He is working with what ever information he is given at the time...that doesn't make him any less creditable or doing this for the media attention or money. He had all of that before this case came along. "JMO"

Well said. Thank you!

 

[cloud9]

It's in the documents which the SA had to threaten George and Cindy with a subpoena for them to turn them over. Here's a hint....communications b/w Cindy and DC.


Novice Seeker

Hi Novice

Do you have a link to this?

Thanks!