The "set up' questions

[ahoyhoy]

BBM

No one does? Not even children? Because that's exactly what I did when I was a kid. Out of tea, not allowed to use the stove? No problem...hot water from the tap and a tea bag. Voila.

Not saying your theory that the teabag was simply discarded in the drinking glass doesn't have merit, mind you. I certainly think that's possible. I simply believe that a child making "iced tea" is equally possible.

JMO

Thank you for your anecdotal confirmation, because I've always thought that 'tea' method was like a work-around a kid might come up with to make tap water palatable. Most teabags float and kinda repel water if it's not hot; adults would know this. imo.

The fact that the adults didn't hide the 'set-up' that morning, then practically tried to pretend it didn't exist, could mean that BR & JB were snacking alone. It could mean it all started there, without the adults' knowledge--because otherwise it seems they'd have accounted for it in their story. Right?

Even after the autopsy, the Ramseys easily could have acknowledged the pineapple as proof JB woke up at some point that night, perhaps with her 'kidnapper'. Why divert from it? It seems they didn't know about the pineapple right away, yet still they stick to the story that JB was asleep and never woke up? Why divert, when the evidence shows that JB did awaken? We all know she was out of her bed at some point, why such sensitivity about readily-available leftover pineapple?

They wiped down flashlight batteries, but stuck to their lies about a bit of fruit? This, and the set-up itself, is BD-SOMETHING evidence, imo. That something happened at the kitchen table that the parents didn't realize until after the cops had been there, otherwise their story would have accounted for it, or at least been open to it. JMO, completely.

I seem to be talking myself into some of y'all's idea that a fight started at that table between BR & JB. hmmm. :hiding:

 

[ahoyhoy]

All any of us has are "hunches" because none of us were there. But there is plenty of evidence to base our "hunches" on. And IMO, the evidence supports my hunches.

Just want to say, we may not all agree, but reading everyone's "hunches" is why I love it here. Keep 'em coming everyone---Discussion brings out the truth, imo, and dammit, Jonbenet deserves the TRUTH of her short life to be known. :twocents:

 

[Mama2JML]

It's not Celestial Seasonings! ...CS tea has no string, no tag, etc.

Maybe Twinings or Bigelow? Doesn't look like Lipton, Luzianne or Tetley. IMO.

 

[Chelly]

It's not Celestial Seasonings! ...no string, no tag, etc.

Maybe Twinings or Bigelow? Doesn't look like Lipton, Luzianne or Tetley. IMO.

I thought there looked to be a dark tag in front of the cup handle and there is a string going over the back of the glass.

 

[Mama2JML]

I thought there looked to be a dark tag in front of the cup handle and there is a string going over the back of the glass.

I'm sorry! I meant, "Celestial Seasonings' Teas don't have tags & strings." So, the tea in the photo can't be Celestial Seasonings.

 

[deca]

Wasn't the entire kitchen kind of known to be a mess? Then a thing like a tea bag or box of crackers or anything shelf-stable or "trash" might have been there for days out on the counter, right?
Of course, pineapple is something that would go bad if left out for too long.

 

[Chelly]

Wasn't the entire kitchen kind of known to be a mess? Then a thing like a tea bag or box of crackers or anything shelf-stable or "trash" might have been there for days out on the counter, right?
Of course, pineapple is something that would go bad if left out for too long.

PR was known as a person who never put things away. Whatever was out in the kitchen would stay there for days or until her housekeeper was there to clean up.

 

[txsvicki]

I wonder why John said it was hot tea if he didn't even know how Patsy made a pitcher of iced tea. Most boxes have instructions on how to make one serving.

 

[Chelly]

I wonder why John said it was hot tea if he didn't even know how Patsy made a pitcher of iced tea. Most boxes have instructions on how to make one serving.

I know a few things for sure about the R's. If their lips are moving, they are lying.

 

[Arnie M]

For what its worth , whenever I make a pot of tea or a single mug of tea , I nearly always remove the bag and place it in an adjacent glass , or cup or on a plate or whatever is handy on the counter and then throw it out later.

Otherwise to carry it to the garbage can or whatever it drips all over the place , especially the type with a string and tab like the picture.

For me to see a used tea bag in a glass does not indicate the tea was made in the glass, besides tea gets pretty strong and bitter if left in the cup too long.

For all we know the glass and teabag could have been from earlier in the day. The housekeeper said the Ramseys never picked up after themselves.

 

[Arnie M]

There is no way to prove when the "set up" was placed, but the pineapple in the bowl and fridge was matched to the pineapple found in her digestive tract. Both the bowl and spoon were from the home (there is a photo of an identical bowl on a table in a photo of the Rs party on the 23rd). The Rs attempted to say that they didn't recognize the bowl but obviously that dog don't hunt. My take on it is that both kids may have had a bedtime snack when they got home that night. The set-up itself had nothing to do with the crime. Nor did the snack itself. Only the LIES about the set up and snack are part of the crime because they attempt to cover up the fact that JB was awake that night and not asleep as the parents claimed.

I think your post describes the most likely scenario .

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

There is a problem with knowing what is a lie.
I think John was not invovled in any of it and so would not know about the set up. And Patsy committed the act, IMO, while in a state of dissociation and did not remember doing it.

So John saying he did not recognize the set up is not a lie and Patsy saying it was not "her" set up is not a lie as the set up belonged to an alter persona.

 

[Anyhoo]

There is a problem with knowing what is a lie.
I think John was not invovled in any of it and so would not know about the set up. And Patsy committed the act, IMO, while in a state of dissociation and did not remember doing it.

So John saying he did not recognize the set up is not a lie and Patsy saying it was not "her" set up is not a lie as the set up belonged to an alter persona.

I don't agree with any of what you said here. IMO JR had prior knowledge of his daughter's death, before the 911 call was even made. And PR also had prior knowledge of her daughter's death before the 911 call was made. When the body was brought upstairs by John she was not surprised to see JB dead. Sad, regretful, etc., but not surprised. Had she not expected it, her reaction to the body would have been totally different. She already knew. JR, who brought the body upstairs, already knew. Both parents already knew.

 

[Arnie M]

I don't agree with any of what you said here. IMO JR had prior knowledge of his daughter's death, before the 911 call was even made. And PR also had prior knowledge of her daughter's death before the 911 call was made. When the body was brought upstairs by John she was not surprised to see JB dead. Sad, regretful, etc., but not surprised. Had she not expected it, her reaction to the body would have been totally different. She already knew. JR, who brought the body upstairs, already knew. Both parents already knew.

I completely agree ... and there are so many other telltale signs PR & JR had prior knowledge Jonbenet was already dead.

It begins in the early morning when they claimed they got up at 5:30 - 5:45 AM and within minutes PR was calling hysterically on the phone to a local police station demanding they rush right to the house.

That should be the last thing any normal parents would do ... their immediate thoughts should be for the safety of the daughter .... they would ponder the ransom note carefully and wonder IF they should call the police or not ... or should they just wait for the kidnappers to call back.

You would think there would have been some sober discussion ahead of time , especially from cool headed John who appears to function well under pressure.

And IF they decided to involve the police , we should expect a frightened and unsure parent on the phone saying NOT to let it be seen police were involved , the parents would plead for experienced officers to discretely advise them on what would be the best thing to do. The last thing they would want was the neighborhood full of police cars with lights flashing.

For PR to immediately pick up the phone and insist police come immediately indicates she knew Jonbenet was already dead and there were no kidnappers to worry about.

 

[Anyhoo]

Correct, but I was not thinking in terms of the RN, just in terms of their other behavior that morning. The RN was just a diversion. The parents were never truthfully concerned about it although they semi-pretended to be. The true purpose of the 911 call was not to get help for a kidnapping. The purpose of the 911 call was for JB's body to be found by police. Without even understanding who killed JB or why, we can understand the parent's motivations concerning the dead body. Their daughter was dead and her body was in the house, slowly decomposing. The parents were under great pressure to have her body found and taken out of the house. I believe they fully expected for police to find her body as they were searching the house. When they didn't, JR loses patience and just gets her body himself and brings it upstairs. He knew all along where she was because he put her body there. I am not saying he killed her, just that he placed her body there after she was already dead. That is my read of it at least. Her body was in the basement because that room was the furthest away her dead body could be from the rest of the family and still be in the house. It does not necessarily mean she was killed in that room. Look it like this. Imagine your daughter is dead. It is around 1 or 2 AM. You want to wait until the morning to call police, for whatever reason. What do you do with the corpse until then? You put it as far away from you as you can, which was that room.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

The problem with all that is the very good possibilty that John found the body around 11 am. That would rule him out of any invovlement.

And you are still determining what is a lie and what is not based on hunches.

IMO.

 

[Anyhoo]

The problem with all that is the very good possibilty that John found the body around 11 am. That would rule him out of any invovlement.

And you are still determining what is a lie and what is not based on hunches.

IMO.

As are you.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

As are you.

Actually I have never made a post saying either one lied.

 

[cherisa]

Actually I have never made a post saying either one lied.

The Ramsey's were caught in quite a few lies, once you tell lies it makes you a liar. It's not a hunch if they are known liars.
Isn't this a discussion board? It seems like you are trying to bait people here with some sort of agenda..it doesn't seem like you want to discuss to me. Moo

Is it just me?

 

[Tawny]

Is it just me?

Nope. :moo: