The Shoe Lace Bindings

[reedus23]

And, again, none of the biological samples tested can be linked to any of the falsely-convicted young men. IMO, the fact that some of the samples can be tenuously linked to one of the "parents" should be given more weight than some people seem to be willing to do. Damien has always said, "Test everything" because he knows he's innocent. TH has consistently refused to voluntarily give a DNA sample for testing because he knows what would happen were he to do so.

BBM - With all due respect, it is more than tenuously linked to one of the parents. In fact, it's linked sufficiently so such that I would bet that if anyone, and I mean anyone (nons included), had to bet whatever they hold dearest on it, they would put their bet on the side of it being that parent's hair.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I am carrying this post over here, and starting a spot for everything shoelace related ..

Christopher Byers Autopsy: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html
Steve Branch Autopsy: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html
Michael Moore Autopsy: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html

This is interesting..

Christopher Byers: The right wrist was bound to the right ankle with a black shoe lace and the left wrist was bound to the left ankle with a white shoe lace.

Steve Branch: The body was that of a well developed, well nourished nude white male. The body was covered with mud, leaves and debris. The right hand bound to the right ankle with a black shoe lace, the left hand was bound to the left ankle with a white shoe lace.

Did both Steve and Chris have one white and one black shoelace, or were shoelaces from two pairs of shoes used on both of them, was it ever made clear at the time which lace in each of the bindings came from which shoe?

Do we know the length of the shoelace bindings?

Here's where I'm going, if the bindings were short then I'm willing to believe they were from the boys shoes, if however they were longer they are more likely to have come from adult shoes, or even boots .. let's have a look at all that.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Another thing to consider is the fact that there was still one lace in the shoes belonging to the victims.

Now the victims were tied up with their own shoe laces, with six laces used to tie the victims up. Two of these laces were actually the remains of one lace which had been cut in half, which is why there’s another lace still in the shoe. That right there would mean that there was a knife used in this crime, which counters the defense claims that the wounds were the result of animal predation.

http://thewm3revelations.wordpress....hood-hills-paradise-lost-west-of-memphis-wom/

Actually more interesting to me is the fact that this shoelace is still in the shoe, and if we are to go along with the thinking that one shoelace was cut in half here, wouldn't that make the shoelace too SHORT to be used as a hog tie?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Crime scene notes, dictated: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/crime_scene_notes_dictated.html

Uh, body is nude with wrists and feet tied. It's in a hog typed tying fashion. It appears to be uh, um, shoelaces used for the tying. They are either dark blue or black. From my position, I can not tell.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is quite a good post on another site with a lot of case notes, as well as each of the shoe brand / styles photographed, but still no length of binding mentioned.

http://www.jivepuppi.com/laces_and_bindings.html

An important piece is missing, the identification of which child wore which clothes and, importantly, which shoes. With this information some important questions can be addressed.

Which laces came from which shoes? Did the white shoe laces come from the white shoes or the size 3 black shoes? The anomalous hair was found under a white shoelace binding Chris Byers.

Good questions.

 

[gheckso]

That right there would mean that there was a knife used in this crime, which counters the defense claims that the wounds were the result of animal predation.[/I]

How exactly does this in any way counter the argument of animal predation? and I'm not saying I fully agree with it.

Actually more interesting to me is the fact that this shoelace is still in the shoe, and if we are to go along with the thinking that one shoelace was cut in half here, wouldn't that make the shoelace too SHORT to be used as a hog tie?

who's to say an adult shoelace from an adult shoe wasn't used as the replacement? they can be very long, I remember reading that LA gears had laces of approx 60 inches in length.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Well yes, but it would be important information to actually KNOW don't you think, especially since a hair found in one of the shoes is supposed to be 'similar' to the hair of TH?

Regarding animal predation there is a new image I have not seen showing Christopher Byers injuries, here is a link. WARNING GRAPHIC: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/t92b.png/

 

[gheckso]

I think I'll skip the picture, but yes, it would be interesting to know, it would have been even better if the documentation of evidence was to a higher standard, seems the norm for this case.

And I don't think a knife is necessarily the only way to cut a shoelace in half, although it seems the obvious. I've haven't read up on the shoelaces in quite sometime, but is there any evidence to show it was a clean cut etc?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The part about the shoelaces being cut was a quote from the source of the photo .. I think since we don't even know how long they were then who is to say, but a boy's shoelace cut in half to use as a binding seems too short to me.

I think another lace from an adult or boot shoe is more likely.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

The part about the shoelaces being cut was a quote from the source of the photo .. I think since we don't even know how long they were then who is to say, but a boy's shoelace cut in half to use as a binding seems too short to me.

I think another lace from an adult or boot shoe is more likely.

Maybe that's how the step-father's hair got there. Although I believe it could be there because they lived in the same household too.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I do think secondary transfer for the hair, however it would be interesting if Michael Moore was tied with shoelaces from Stevie Branch, it would make the secondary transfer more likely.

I guess we'll never know.

 

[gheckso]

I know Paid from the blackboard has done a lot of work with the laces, including graphs, overlays with measurements etc. I would post the link but I don't believe unregistered members can access it. It would be helpful no doubt.

 

[kyleb]

Regarding animal predation there is a new image I have not seen showing Christopher Byers injuries, here is a link. WARNING GRAPHIC: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/t92b.png/

How did you determine that is Christopher Byers? Any has anyone ever found any examples of animal claws which are more consistent which those wounds and these here than the saw edge of the survival knife is?

 

[Cappuccino]

Kyle, can you take the wounds and the knife to the relevant thread please?

Mrs G Norris - this is what I've gleaned from my own attempts to puzzle out who was tied with whose shoe laces over the years..

1) Michael was wearing white tennis shoes tied with white shoe laces.

2) Christopher's sneakers were new, bought just a few days before the murder.

3) Stevie was wearing high top sneakers.

4) Christopher and Stevie were each tied with a white lace on one side and a black lace on the other.

5) There is a lace left in one of Christopher Byer's sneakers.

6) Lisa Sakevicius was ambiguous about whether Michael was tied with one lace or two cut in half.

It gives me a headache, so good luck with it.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

OK I found some more photos .. you can clearly see that the bindings on at least one of the victims (most likely Christopher) are very long .. WARNING GRAPHIC: http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f237/real-west-memphis-three-crime-scene-photos-90001/

 

[LordYAM]

The secondary transfer?:floorlaugh:

It would have had to have been pulled through the rope, tied several times through the rope, pulled through the hole from the laces, and survived all that after a day (hobbs claims he never saw them that day). Unlikely. not impossible I repeat NOT impossible but highly unlikely. Honestly I'm not sure whether the people who buy that theory are either dishonest or stupid.

 

[Cappuccino]

The bindings on all the victims were around equal length, give or take a few centimetres. I don't really get why you linked us to autopsy photos of Stevie with his face smashed up, etc.

That's not going to help with working out the shoe laces, and isn't really very respectful to the victims, in fact that's even more disrepectful than the opening scenes of the PL movies.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

How did you determine that is Christopher Byers? Any has anyone ever found any examples of animal claws which are more consistent which those wounds and these here than the saw edge of the survival knife is?

When I found it on image search there was an option to view the page or image, when I saw it in context it was described as being a photograph of Christopher's inner thigh .. let me see if I can find it again.

http://thewm3revelations.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/the-bite-mark-claims/

It's near the bottom of this page, say about 3/4 of the way down ..

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The secondary transfer?:floorlaugh:

It would have had to have been pulled through the rope, tied several times through the rope, pulled through the hole from the laces, and survived all that after a day (hobbs claims he never saw them that day). Unlikely. not impossible I repeat NOT impossible but highly unlikely. Honestly I'm not sure whether the people who buy that theory are either dishonest or stupid.

Have you ever found a hair wrapped around a shoelace? Sometimes the hair seems to find it's way right in there and almost weave itself into the weave of the lace itself .. did it necessarily get in there that day, and was it even Michael's shoelace?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

The bindings on all the victims were around equal length, give or take a few centimetres. I don't really get why you linked us to autopsy photos of Stevie with his face smashed up, etc.

That's not going to help with working out the shoe laces, and isn't really very respectful to the victims, in fact that's even more disrepectful than the opening scenes of the PL movies.

If you can take a look at the photo of the bound boy here, you can see how long the lace is, it looks much longer than a boys lace to me .. http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f237/real-west-memphis-three-crime-scene-photos-90001/