The Shoe Lace Bindings

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Some jails take the shoelaces off people in case they try to kill themselves.

I've never seen it mentioned that they were in his pocket at time of arrest. Even if they were (and admittedly that would be quite weird..) I'm not sure what that would prove.
 
It's interesting isn't it? We have Jessie giving his shoes away right after the murders, Jason with muddy boots laced with new laces, and now Damien with shoelaces in his pocket on the day he was arrested.

It's funny isn't it, seems all roads lead to those laces.


And when you add the -victims' - shoelaces into the mix..well, it seems to me that three pairs of adult laces weren't present on discovery, weren't used and are, except possibly for one set of bindings, utterly irrelevant.
 
I've heard of lockups up north that do this routinely, particularly where there's been accusations of involuntary deaths in custody. A history of mental illness would also be a good reason for precautions like that.
 
What do you think about Echols having shoe laces in his pockets when he was arrested?

TBH I don't know what to make of it, they were collected a month after the murders, we could speculate all day. Is there any more documentation on them? were they submitted for testing? I can't seem to find any reports on them, still looking.

Submitted on the 24th June:Link
 
Going by this report it appears they were checked against the plaster-casts that were made from the crime scene, is there a list of what other testing was done with them? Surely this wasn't it, and I'm not suggesting it is.

Did LE or anyone else ever determine what shoe style made the "tennis-type shoe" print? Meaning brand, style, etc.
6epenyvy.jpg



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This is just a spot of sheer speculation here, but --- have you ever tried to remove laces from wet sneaker type shoes? It's a PITA, whereas dry shoe laces are easier (not always,but generally).

I'm just thinking that as there was one lace left in one of the victim's shoes (CB? having a brain fart here..) maybe the killer found it too hard to remove, after fiddling with the first one, and used one of his own instead.

If so, I'd have to assume the remaining lace from the victim's shoe was removed or left elsewhere. I wonder if it broke, also, making the other one too much potential trouble to remove..
 
Did LE or anyone else ever determine what shoe style made the "tennis-type shoe" print? Meaning brand, style, etc.
6epenyvy.jpg



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I don't believe so, since it describes the tread pattern more than the actual shoe itself, any shoe with a tread pattern consistent with a tennis-type shoe is viable.


The shoes listed K-102-111 Were all inconsistent.
Link 1
Link 2
 
What do you think about Echols having shoe laces in his pockets when he was arrested?

So there's this which Ud posted.

and this

Is it simply that ridge removed the laces from the tennis shoes? Or is there evidence which states it was in fact removed from his pockets?
 
Removed ... a MONTH later.

I have a hard time seeing a PAIR of laces, even if they were in his pocket and not removed for suicide watch, a MONTH later as being terribly suspicious.
 
Great find Mrs G

The boots in the video look dirty and brown, but they are muddy because they are actually green according to the documents below.

And the laces look new to me and not dirty at all.

Thought I'd add this on the topic of Jason's boots.
Link



And here is a good List of the evidence

E-110 [a] Pair green lace up boots. Trace evidence j-16. [e] Q76 Boot, right. [j] Q76 Boot, right Q77 Boot, left [k] One (1) pair of green boots, labelled as J16. [q] Soil sample removed from boots at time of arrest. Pair of green lace up type boots that were siezed incident to search warrant from the residence of Jason Baldwin. [v] E soil froom K1 boots. [r] K86 (Alabama) Manila envelope containing fiber or piece of fabric. "93-05716 E110 std". [r] K87 (Alabama) Manila envelope containing fiber or piece of fabric. "93-05716 E110 std boot lace". [r] K106 (Alabama) For footwear comparison. One cardboard box labeled in part "93-05716 E91, 95, 129, 110, 105 and containing: [r] K108 (Alabama) For footwear comparison. One paper bag labeled "E110 pair green lace up boots from Jason's 9305716 E110" and containing one pair of green canvas and rubber boots. [t] Q76, Q77
 
Brilliant, thanks for finding that .. still wish she's written the total length of each shoelace ..
 
Brilliant, thanks for finding that .. still wish she's written the total length of each shoelace ..

CR posted this at the beginning of the shoelace thread she started. I'm not sure where CR got these lengths, so i'm not sure theyre correct. you'd have to ask CR.

Next, let's look at the length of the laces. Steven's ligatures consisted of one black lace (approx 45" long, used to tie the right wrist to the right ankle) and one white lace (approx 34" long, used to tie the left wrist to the left ankle). Christopher's ligatures consisted of one black lace (approx 30" long, used to tie the right wrist to the right ankle) and one white lace (approx 34" long, used to tie the left wrist to the left ankle). Michael's laces are the most interesting because they were described by Lisa Sakevicius as "pieces of laces" instead of laces. This was apparently determined because both of Michael's ligatures had aiglets only on one end. Both of Michael's ligatures were black, the one on the right side measuring approximately 31" and the one on the left measuring approximately 29". All of these measurements can be verified by checking the evidence lists on Callahan's.

Now comes the interesting part. Since a lace was left in one of Christopher's shoes, where did the six laces used to hog tie the boys come from? First, IMO, it's obvious that the two white laces, both about 34" in length, came from Michael's shoes. I don't recall if the other lace from Christopher's shoe was measured. However, the two intact black laces were of differing lengths. I hadn't realized just how "different" in length the intact laces were. It has caused me to rethink my assessment of the ligatures.

Since Steven and Christopher had black laces in their shoes, but one of Christopher's laces was still in the shoe, I now think that the 30" lace was from the shoe of one boy and the 45" lace was from the shoe of the other boy. Either a 30" lace or a 45" lace (depending on the length of the lace remaining in Christopher's shoe) was broken and discarded by the killer. So, he improvised and removed one black lace from his own shoe (TH wore LA Gear knock-offs at the time, and one of Pam's sisters noticed one lace in one shoe missing shortly after the murders) and cut it into two pieces, creating the "pieces of laces" Sakevicius mentioned as Michael's bindings.

So, one black lace remained in one shoe. One black lace was broken and taken away from the scene by the killer. The other two black laces and both white laces were used to bind Steven and Christopher. Michael was bound with an adult lace, about 60" long, that was cut into two pieces.

I snipped this bit of CR's very long post as it was the part that referred to the lengths. Hope this helps.







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There are respectfully snipped photographs of the ligatures with a ruler for scale. I really wish i could post the link to the blackboard but unregistered members won't be able to access it. I believe the person that made the graphs etc had more evidence (photographs) than we have or care to see. I believe this is were CR is getting the lengths. Correct me if I'm wrong CR ;p
 
There are respectfully snipped photographs of the ligatures with a ruler for scale. I really wish i could post the link to the blackboard but unregistered members won't be able to access it. I believe the person that made the graphs etc had more evidence (photographs) than we have or care to see. I believe this is were CR is getting the lengths. Correct me if I'm wrong CR ;p

I posted earlier about this below. It seems that the request for measuring has not been made public yet. I tried to access CR's link, but I didn't want to have to join another message board in order to see a chart.

Motion for DNA and Other Testing - dated 3/30/2011

Please see Page 6 of document below

Victims Shoelaces
http://callahan.8k.com/pdf/de_dnamotion3_30_11.pdf

They are wanting to measure all of the shoe laces so they can figure out which ones were from the victims. I don't think there was a result from this though.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10020214&postcount=70"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Shoe Lace Bindings[/ame]
 
There are respectfully snipped photographs of the ligatures with a ruler for scale. I really wish i could post the link to the blackboard but unregistered members won't be able to access it. I believe the person that made the graphs etc had more evidence (photographs) than we have or care to see. I believe this is were CR is getting the lengths. Correct me if I'm wrong CR ;p

I think I remember that somebody posted instructions earlier in this thread(now that the 2 threads have been merged) about how to access the charts without registering as a blackboard member.


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I wasn't trying to make out the measurements were 100% correct, but it is the best attempt I have seen of doing as much.
 

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