The Sidebar - Harris Trial

[Hope4More]

Ok so those are typical and rather expected responses in both cases. Neither LH or RH displayed either or any of what you described

Ok I suppose RH did some form of that at the car but many described that as almost acting

No witnesses at the time thought he was acting. One said RH's pain seemed so real to him he actually cried for RH. Another, who testified that she thought he was acting said originally she saw nothing suspicious, that it seemed to her RH was trying to process what had happened, and that it was sinking in, in bits (screaming- quiet).

It's a basic psychological truth that what we believe we see is influenced by visual context.

Spectators and LE saw a man on his phone rather than by the side of his dead baby, laying on the big pavement. The why's of that didn't matter, and for many, still don't.

Even more prejudicial to how RH was viewed by subsequent eyewitnesses was the fact the grieving screaming father was handcuffed and put into a cop car. It's impossible for those cues to have not influenced what people thought they saw. Fwiw.

 

[momoftwocrazies]

No questions or requests yet today?

 

[popsicle]

Jurors: When detective came into room with Ross that is when they all perked up.

The person who is believed to be foreperson appeared to direct where certain people should sit and when the video began a couple jurors looked at the jurors that were placed in the front with the best view. Appeared what they were paying close attention to was JRH's story.

This is from 11Alive

 

[momoftwocrazies]

Jurors: When detective came into room with Ross that is when they all perked up.

The person who is believed to be foreperson appeared to direct where certain people should sit and when the video began a couple jurors looked at the jurors that were placed in the front with the best view. Appeared what they were paying close attention to was JRH's story.

Where is this coming from? Wow, interesting..

 

[gitana1]

Another day, into the fray.

There isn't any universal expression of shock any more than there is of any other emotion.


I've had a very, very, close friend of 27 years (thought we'd marry, but hadn't met DH yet) die abruptly, no warning, of a heart attack. His brother called to tell me. I remember screaming, initially, but then going absolutely numb for days before I could begin crying. I can't even begin to describe how surreal those days were.

I also remember my response to a far more "trivial" loss, one of my beloved cats who I'd rescued as a feral kitten. We'd taken him to the vet for non-emergenvy surgury, I was cleaning the attic, my DH came up, told me he had bad news, that my Nubs had died right after surgery, and I replied- well, that's not possible, he's just there for surgery. Even when he told me again I told him it wasn't possible, and when he told me a third time, my response was to get pissed with him for repeating such a ridiculous thing. I didn't believe it until I called the vet myself. And that was "just" a cat.


I see Leanna's shock as reflecting what seems to be her temperament- already reserved, shock sent her all the way inside, shut her down.

And I think it's possible Ross's expression of shock reflects who he is most fundamentally- a master compartmentalizer, someone who never shuts up, and someone who is capable of deep deep denial.

All of that can come under shock. Disbelief. Not talking much. Ross doesn fit any of that. He's casually chatty and about innocuous things and then confidently instructing the officers as to how this kind of thing occurs. No way is that ever a sign of someone in shock. Not close. MOO.

Yes. There are variety of reasonable responses by innocent parents. Screaming. Crying. Blaming themselves. Refusing to believe the truth. Wanting to die. Quiet shock. Fear. Numbness. Lack of any emotion showing. Catatonia. But chatty, casual conversation and mansplaining how this kind of thing is common? I can never be convinced. Similar arguments were made to explain away casey Anthony's partying and glee in the days after her daughter's death as just a variety of normal expressions of grief. I didn't believe that either.

 

[popsicle]

Where is this coming from? Wow, interesting..

Reporter on 11Alive http://www.courtchatter.com/ross-harris-trial-live-stream-1

 

[Niner]

o I take it that this is the Verdict Watch thread? :thinking:


and :welcome6: to MsMtOlympus to Websleuths!! :greetings:


and Hope4More - some of us want you back on the Travis' Friends Sidebar - we have questions on the "thing" you posted about??!!!!


I keep forgetting I'm 7 hours ahead of you on the East coast! So the jury is still deliberating??


TIA! :wave:

 

[Inthedetails]

No witnesses at the time thought he was acting. One said RH's pain seemed so real to him he actually cried for RH. Another, who testified that she thought he was acting said originally she saw nothing suspicious, that it seemed to her RH was trying to process what had happened, and that it was sinking in, in bits (screaming- quiet).

It's a basic psychological truth that what we believe we see is influenced by visual context.

Spectators and LE saw a man on his phone rather than by the side of his dead baby, laying on the big pavement. The why's of that didn't matter, and for many, still don't.

Even more prejudicial to how RH was viewed by subsequent eyewitnesses was the fact the grieving screaming father was handcuffed and put into a cop car. It's impossible for those cues to have not influenced what people thought they saw. Fwiw.

I don't think someone should be CONVICTED because of their reactions, but I do think reactions can be something LE uses to investigate further. If a reaction isn't within the realm of what is expected, it's worth taking a closer look. And, that's what happened.

I don't think he'll be convicted on his reaction - I think he'll be convicted because of his neglect.

jmopinion

 

[PaperDoll]

I think these witnesses at the scene were, not sure what word to use, I'll go with shock to see a dead toddler on the ground. I think their adrenaline was high so it's hard to make any kind of real judgement call. They were focused on Cooper. They saw Ross doing his thing but IMO they had a lot going on. Some were trying to revive Cooper, Ross was here and there, on the phone, not really helping. I think it takes time to process once things settle down a bit, then one can process a bit more clearly once the chaos has passed. So some of these witnesses who "changed" their minds, have time to think a bit more clearer, I know I would. just sayin :blushing:

 

[Hope4More]

I also found it weird neither one choked up when talking about Cooper.

That they didn't was an indication to me they WERE in shock. As Kilgore said, if RH wanted to put on a show of grief he surely could have, and speaking Cooper's name would have been the time.

I've rewatched the video several times, and what I still see is a man who was trying to hold it together and trying to be cooperative because he wanted to get out of there and be with Leanna. That makes 100% emotional sense to me, especially given the fact his lack of cooperation a fdw hours earlier had resulted in handcuffs, the backseat of a police car, and being cut off from Leanna.

 

[katydid23]

That they didn't was an indication to me they WERE in shock. As Kilgore said, if RH wanted to put on a show of grief he surely could have, and speaking Cooper's name would have been the time.

I've rewatched the video several times, and what I still see is a man who was trying to hold it together and trying to be cooperative because he wanted to get out of there and be with Leanna. That makes 100% emotional sense to me, especially given the fact his lack of cooperation a fdw hours earlier had resulted in handcuffs, the backseat of a police car, and being cut off from Leanna.

When you watch Ross in the interview you see someone 'trying to hold it together?' :thinking: I saw someone who was easily holding it together. Quite calm and collected. Making small talk, remembering details, no sign of intense stress or signs of struggling to hold himself together, imo.

 

[Hope4More]

I don't think someone should be CONVICTED because of their reactions, but I do think reactions can be something LE uses to investigate further. If a reaction isn't within the realm of what is expected, it's worth taking a closer look. And, that's what happened.

I don't think he'll be convicted on his reaction - I think he'll be convicted because of his neglect.

jmopinion

This jury is taking it's time to get it right. I don't believe they'll convict him based on their interpretations of his emotional responses either. I give them more credit that that.

Had they delivered a verdict already I'd have my doubts, but as it is, even if I disagree with their verdict, I'm going to assume they did their job and based their conclusions on the evidence, not their own emotion or biases.

 

[monkeypants]

No witnesses at the time thought he was acting. One said RH's pain seemed so real to him he actually cried for RH. Another, who testified that she thought he was acting said originally she saw nothing suspicious, that it seemed to her RH was trying to process what had happened, and that it was sinking in, in bits (screaming- quiet).

It's a basic psychological truth that what we believe we see is influenced by visual context.

Spectators and LE saw a man on his phone rather than by the side of his dead baby, laying on the big pavement. The why's of that didn't matter, and for many, still don't.

Even more prejudicial to how RH was viewed by subsequent eyewitnesses was the fact the grieving screaming father was handcuffed and put into a cop car. It's impossible for those cues to have not influenced what people thought they saw. Fwiw.

Fair enough.
I remember someone described him as will Ferrell in anchorman.....but let's step away from the scene. How do you explain his behavior in the back of the patrol car?

 

[katydid23]

No questions or requests yet today?

They requested a transcript and video of Ross;s police interview.

 

[Hope4More]

When you watch Ross in the interview you see someone 'trying to hold it together?' :thinking: I saw someone who was easily holding it together. Quite calm and collected. Making small talk, remembering details, no sign of intense stress or signs of struggling to hold himself together, imo.

Yes, that's what I see. A low, intense voice, rushing through answers (and not just in response to beginning "baseline" questions). Stoddard says a trivial aside in the very beginning, Ross stares up at the ceiling and doesn't respond. There's "normalcy" in that situation, being asked questions, giving replies. That's what we do. In between sets of questions I see reality sinking in a bit more for Ross. And, i believe what I saw for myself when he finally was allowed to move on and be with Leanna. He collapsed emotionally, and it just wasn't about himself. jmo

 

[minor4th]

Good afternoon. Stayed up too late watching election returns.

Just checking in to see if anything has developed.

 

[monkeypants]

Yes, that's what I see. A low, intense voice, rushing through answers (and not just in response to beginning "baseline" questions). Stoddard says a trivial aside in the very beginning, Ross stares up at the ceiling and doesn't respond. There's "normalcy" in that situation, being asked questions, giving replies. That's what we do. In between sets of questions I see reality sinking in a bit more for Ross. And, i believe what I saw for myself when he finally was allowed to move on and be with Leanna. He collapsed emotionally, and it just wasn't about himself. jmo

I find this aspect of the case the most interesting because it is the single most divisive piece of evidence IMO. This single video is black and white in all our minds with two very different beliefs. I totally respect Hopes description...I can't see what she sees but because her belief is shared with others I know she's isn't insane

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

LH seemed to me to be totally under JRH's spell. She followed his lead, even with finances when he was reckless with that as well. She was submissive and doting on him no matter what he did. IMO she only divorced him when she really had no other choice because it became obvious he would be serving major time either way. To me she felt it her duty to testify for him. Don't forget she asked him if they would have more children when she got to see him. WHO SAYS THAT!? Sadly Cooper was an "accessory" to these people. IMO he was companionship for LH, and something to show off for JRH- but they both acted like he could be easily replaced. I've seen and experienced more shock and sadness in losing a pet.

It always bothered me that Leanna knelt in front of Ross to talk to him at the jail. I remember thinking, WTF! It was like she was worshipping the man who was responsible, whether by accident or purposefully, for her young son's death in a hot car. What on earth was Leanna thinking? Maybe she was accustomed to kneeling down for Ross :angel: but while speaking with him after learning that Cooper was dead left me dumbfounded. :moo:

 

[monkeypants]

Good afternoon. Stayed up too late watching election returns.

Just checking in to see if anything has developed.

Quiet mostly...jurors watched RH interview and read along with the transcripts.

Everyone here is election hung over and sticking to their RH opinions

 

[monkeypants]

It always bothered me that Leanna knelt in front of Ross to talk to him at the jail. I remember thinking, WTF! It was like she was worshipping the man who was responsible, whether by accident or purposefully, for her young son's death in a hot car. What on earth was Leanna thinking? Maybe she was accustomed to kneeling down for Ross :angel: but while speaking with him after learning that Cooper was dead left me dumbfounded. :moo:

I almost always kneel down when speaking to my children....so in my mind that's how she was treating him.