The Sidebar - Ross Harris Trial

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Did he reverse park so people couldn't see Cooper if walking by?

Plus didn't he hesitate near the car as an employee was walking in the lot?

Or was that speculation.
 
Did he reverse park so people couldn't see Cooper if walking by?

Plus didn't he hesitate near the car as an employee was walking in the lot?

Or was that speculation.

He did reverse park. I wonder why he would turn his head (and see Cooper) when changing lanes enroute to the movies, but supposedly only use the mirrors to back up into the parking spot (therefore he didn't see Cooper's head inches away.) It would seem most drivers use their mirrors in traffic rather than take their eyes off the road to turn their heads. In a parking lot, where there is presumably no traffic but lines to back between, it would make more sense to turn ones' head and look as you were backing up. I realize drivers have their own quirky methods of backing up, but this is just what I would do. I assume the cameras in the Treehouse parking lot were not able to see into his car sufficiently to see if he turned his head or not.
 
It's interesting how HLN was all ready to cover the trial gavel-to-gavel when it was originally suppose to happen in May, but for some reason, must have changed their minds between then and now.

Of course there are still 5 weeks left and they could decide to start covering it at any point, but as of right now, their decision is to not give it the Arias or Anthony treatment.

A search on HLN's website shows the last time they wrote about Ross was in April. I can only find two posts about the trial since it began on their Facebook page. I know Nancy Grace talked about the trial on her show.. But there seems to be a huge contrast between the original plan and what they ended up doing.

Why do you think that is?

HLN is located in Atlanta. Did their decision change because the trial was moved? It was only moved a few hours away, and they've traveled to Utah, Arizona, and Florida to extensively cover a trial. It's hard for me to think their original decision to give the case 24/7 coverage changed because it moved far away...but at the same time, I could easily how a trial could be very appealing if it was in their backyard. They were also suppose to cover the Andrea Sneiderman trial gavel-to-gavel before she took a plea deal, and that trial was also located in the Atlanta area, so I don't think it's far-fetched to say a trial happening in Atlanta would be considered a plus to them.

Did they have research done that showed that people's interest in the trial dropped between now and then? Why would that be? Is it because it's not as hot out anymore and this is the hot car death case?

Maybe both? Interest dropped because it's not as hot out...and with the trial moving away from Atlanta and no longer being overly convenient to cover, they decided it wasn't worth it?

The only two things I can think that changed between now and then is...the trial was moved and it's happening in the Fall instead of the Spring/Summer.

I don't have cable so this just my research from the Internet. Is HLN covering the case more than my post would imply? If not, what are they talking about?
 
It's interesting how HLN was all ready to cover the trial gavel-to-gavel when it was originally suppose to happen in May, but for some reason, must have changed their minds between then and now.

Of course there are still 5 weeks left and they could decide to start covering it at any point, but as of right now, their decision is to not give it the Arias or Anthony treatment.

A search on HLN's website shows the last time they wrote about Ross was in April. I can only find two posts about the trial since it began on their Facebook page. I know Nancy Grace talked about the trial on her show.. But there seems to be a huge contrast between the original plan and what they ended up doing.

Why do you think that is?

HLN is located in Atlanta. Did their decision change because the trial was moved? It was only moved a few hours away, and they've traveled to Utah, Arizona, and Florida to extensively cover a trial. It's hard for me to think their original decision to give the case 24/7 coverage changed because it moved far away...but at the same time, I could easily how a trial could be very appealing if it was in their backyard. They were also suppose to cover the Andrea Sneiderman trial gavel-to-gavel before she took a plea deal, and that trial was also located in the Atlanta area, so I don't think it's far-fetched to say a trial happening in Atlanta would be considered a plus to them.

Did they have research done that showed that people's interest in the trial dropped between now and then? Why would that be? Is it because it's not as hot out anymore and this is the hot car death case?

Maybe both? Interest dropped because it's not as hot out...and with the trial moving away from Atlanta and no longer being overly convenient to cover, they decided it wasn't worth it?

The only two things I can think that changed between now and then is...the trial was moved and it's happening in the Fall instead of the Spring/Summer.

I don't have cable so this just my research from the Internet. Is HLN covering the case more than my post would imply? If not, what are they talking about?

I know Nancy Grace was ready to Lynch him from day 1.

I think she mentioned her twins about 1 million times during the first month of this happening.

Ah look at baby cooper. But first; Here goes the twins.
 
Did he reverse park so people couldn't see Cooper if walking by?

Plus didn't he hesitate near the car as an employee was walking in the lot?

Or was that speculation.

Kilgore said his back window was totally visible to any passerby.

Nope, he paid no attn. to the passerby in the parking lot.

Sorry, I don't have links to support. Kilgore addressed the back window in his opening statement. You can listen to the AJC podcast #2 for information on the passerby in the parking lot. :)
 
It's interesting how HLN was all ready to cover the trial gavel-to-gavel when it was originally suppose to happen in May, but for some reason, must have changed their minds between then and now.

Of course there are still 5 weeks left and they could decide to start covering it at any point, but as of right now, their decision is to not give it the Arias or Anthony treatment.

A search on HLN's website shows the last time they wrote about Ross was in April. I can only find two posts about the trial since it began on their Facebook page. I know Nancy Grace talked about the trial on her show.. But there seems to be a huge contrast between the original plan and what they ended up doing.

Why do you think that is?

HLN is located in Atlanta. Did their decision change because the trial was moved? It was only moved a few hours away, and they've traveled to Utah, Arizona, and Florida to extensively cover a trial. It's hard for me to think their original decision to give the case 24/7 coverage changed because it moved far away...but at the same time, I could easily how a trial could be very appealing if it was in their backyard. They were also suppose to cover the Andrea Sneiderman trial gavel-to-gavel before she took a plea deal, and that trial was also located in the Atlanta area, so I don't think it's far-fetched to say a trial happening in Atlanta would be considered a plus to them.

Did they have research done that showed that people's interest in the trial dropped between now and then? Why would that be? Is it because it's not as hot out anymore and this is the hot car death case?

Maybe both? Interest dropped because it's not as hot out...and with the trial moving away from Atlanta and no longer being overly convenient to cover, they decided it wasn't worth it?

The only two things I can think that changed between now and then is...the trial was moved and it's happening in the Fall instead of the Spring/Summer.

I don't have cable so this just my research from the Internet. Is HLN covering the case more than my post would imply? If not, what are they talking about?

I'm also interested in hearing a reason why they advertised coverage for the case but instead dropped the whole thing altogether. I'd like to hear from them why that is, but I strongly suspect it's because the defendant isn't a thin pretty woman that looks good on tv (and thus, would be targeted with the same public rage and contempt other female celebrities tend to be targeted with). I also think if JH was a fat homely married woman caught sexting with underage boys that there would be a lot more outrage about his behavior and the crap attitude he had toward his own family ("Do you have a conscience?" "Nope," his words). Alas, JH is a pudgy dude so "boys will be boys" and all that.
 
This is why every child who dies in a car, should be a charge for the caregiver. There are 37 per year on average. Millions of parents manage to not do this. I don't care how "good" of a parent they are every other day. On that day, they failed their child and neglected to protect them. As a society, do we really want to let people off, because they are usually good and they feel guilty? I don't.

I have no doubt that JH loved his son and regrets what he did. I don't think that makes him any less culpable for planning to do this (I'm of the opinion that this was planned, there's just too much evidence to say otherwise). JH strikes me as the kind of person that tests to see what he can get away with, which is why he tried schmooze up to law enforcement by talking about the handcuffs and being super polite to cops to measure their responses to him. I think if he's found not guilty in this, it won't be long until we see him in the news again with someone else dead in his presence.

At this point, I'm all for mandatory sentences in hot car deaths. I think this trial shows that a lot of people can't/won't see the difference between accidental and planned hot car deaths (mountains of evidence be damned, let's explain it all away in implausible scenarios), then only thing we can do at this point is slap a minimum sentence on anyone in the future to make sure nobody tries to kill their kid this way ever again. I wouldn't be surprised if hot car deaths dropped to zero after that.
 
Here's what Ross himself had to say about the bottle rocket accident that caused him to go deaf in one ear:

"I really can't tell anymore. I think my left ear has compensated for what Im missing in my right ear."

From the same site where the child free search apparently took place (Red*it is not linkable here on WS)

Maybe dad should be given a new hearing test....a complete total hearing test.
 
I'm also interested in hearing a reason why they advertised coverage for the case but instead dropped the whole thing altogether. I'd like to hear from them why that is, but I strongly suspect it's because the defendant isn't a thin pretty woman that looks good on tv (and thus, would be targeted with the same public rage and contempt other female celebrities tend to be targeted with). I also think if JH was a fat homely married woman caught sexting with underage boys that there would be a lot more outrage about his behavior and the crap attitude he had toward his own family ("Do you have a conscience?" "Nope," his words). Alas, JH is a pudgy dude so "boys will be boys" and all that.

But Ross has always been a pudgy and unattractive male and they gave the case plenty of coverage back when it happened and were all ready to give it the 24/7 treatment back in May. I do think if he had been a young, attractive woman they would have traveled to wherever the trial was to cover it. I am starting to think that the trial being in Atlanta was a huge reason for why HLN was so interested in it. Not to say there aren't a lot of newsworthy factors about this case but it seems like too big of a coincidence that when the trial is moved away from Atlanta, HLN drops their original plan to cover it gavel-to-gavel.
 
Tweets from Reporters possible delay in Justin Ross Harris Trial...

Bill Rankin ‏@ajccourts Oct 6
Court officials not sure now if #RossHarris trial resumes Monday because of #HurricaneMatthew. Forecast for Ga coast looks bleak as of now.

Oct 8 12:00 a.m.
@ajccourts From what I see on TWC, I can't imagine a #RossHarris trial starting on Monday.

XXXXXX Oct 8
@ajccourts @ReporterJCB The Weather Channel just showed video of Brunswick; I'm predicting #RossHarris trial won't resume at all next week

Christian Boone ‏@ReporterJCB 17h17 hours ago Atlanta, GA
@XXXXX @ajccourts hearing Wednesday possible but no decision yet
 
Hot car death trial in limbo after Hurricane Matthew strikes Georgia coast
Ricky Leroux 3 hrs ago

The Justin Ross Harris murder trial is being delayed again after Hurricane Matthew hit the coastal Georgia city where the trial is being held.

Tom Charron, Cobb Superior Court Administrator, said Saturday that court “definitely” would not be in session in Brunswick on Monday, but court officials are hoping the trial will be able to resume Tuesday. However, the trial’s resumption is still up in the air while crews work to reopen roads, restore power and clean-up after the storm.

Charron said he is waiting to hear from the Glynn County Sheriff’s office on when people will be allowed to get back into Brunswick, which is hosting the Harris trial after it was moved out of Cobb earlier this year due to an inability to find an impartial jury.

Court was canceled Thursday and Friday ahead of the hurricane’s arrival, and Gov. Nathan Deal ordered a mandatory evacuation of Glynn County on Thursday.

http://www.mdjonline.com/news/hot-c...cle_def91a46-8dc9-11e6-89e5-afe19d7c7c84.html
 
So, all parents that have forgotten and suffered a similar tragedy don't really love their children????

BBM --Respectfully, I believe your standards for what constitutes love of a child is unfair to many parents. IMO

Not that it matters, but, I find your use of the term "young baby" interesting. Cooper was not a young baby. He was a 22 month old toddler. I commend you for being constantly vigilant around young babies. Whatever you need to do in order to make sure a young baby is safe. Sure, many parents concerned about sudden infant death syndrome check to see if their young baby/infant is still breathing. Not so much when that young baby reaches the age of 22 months old. IMO

As we know, Leanne is not the only person that has come forward to say Harris loved Cooper. Many other people have said the same. I'm not going to use my standards to determine whether RH loved his child or not. I will take the word of those that actually witnessed Harris' relationship and interaction with his son.

I would not say that 'ALL' parents that suffered a similar fate did not love their children. However, if one only traveled one minute down the road, and thats all it took to forget their child needed to be dropped off, then YES, I question their level of care and concern for the child. And I do not think it is unfair to expect a parent to remember their toddler is in the car when they get out and lock the doors. It is not really that high of a bar.

In my opinion, 22 months is still a young baby. They are totally vulnerable and completely dependent upon their care givers at that tender age. They still do irrational things like put small objects or poisonous substances in their mouths, fall off of things or out of things, etc etc.

My friend looked in her rear view mirror and saw that her 2 yr old was sucking on a small plastic bag from her older sibs lunch, and had sucked it partially into her throat. She pulled off the road and got it clear from her throat in seconds, as her daughter was gasping for air. And as I had stated, my 18 month old inexplicably put a shiny penny in her mouth and was sucking on it. I never noticed but my 5 year old came and told me. It could have been a disaster if it became lodged in her throat.

So in my opinion, one needs to watch 2 yr olds very carefully. They are still vulnerable young things, imo. And it was very negligent of Ross to be so distracted and disconnected from his YOUNG baby. That showed a level of dispassion and disconnection, imo.

As for the definition of 'love' ---I suppose we all have our own personal standards. I think that LOVE for a child is also seen by the level of care and concern shown for that child. I can easily say I love my baby---but if I leave my baby all alone at home while I go to a club , or I drive my baby around while I am too drunk to walk, or I allow a sex offender to watch my baby while I go to party with my girlfriends, then maybe others would question my definition of 'love.'

I think it is fine that Leanne is standing up in support of her ex husband. If she wants to describe him as a wonderful father that loved his son, good for her. But I am not going to accept it at face value just because she thinks it is so. Because my definition of parental 'love' includes caring for and protecting one's children.


ETA: I do remember one case in which I felt total sympathy for the father, in a hot car death. I don't remember all of the details, except it was something like a Father, with a very young child, and his wife was in the hospital with cancer. And he was spending time with her there, and working full time , and driving the child to daycare. It was not something he usually did. And he was exhausted because of the schedule and the emotional stress. And he went to work one morning and forgot to drop off the child. I believe he truly loved his baby but the circumstances were so stressful and difficult that he had a memory lapse. jmo
 
I think something important to keep in mind is that just because someone loves their child, it doesn't necessarily make them a good parent or incapable of killing their own kid.

It wasn't so long ago before modern life that parents would sometimes kill their kids as an act of mercy because they were born so severely disfigured or disabled that leaving them alive would have condemned them to a life of extreme hardship and eventual starvation if something happened to the caregivers. Before the days of birth control, infanticide was a common practice since parents had to choose between providing for the new baby or providing for the numerous other kids that were already born. It is horrifying to think about (and disabled people are still disproportionately victims of violence) but the killings weren't perpetrated by hate. They were motivated by hard choices and consideration for the other children in the household.

I have often wondered if this was ever a medical issue with Cooper, because the way LH and JH talk about him, they've said they don't want him back because of the challenges he would have faced. I have never ever seen a parent say such a thing about their own child who died prematurely, and I can't ever recall ever hearing the parent of a disabled child saying such a thing either.
 
**Snipped for Brevity**

In my opinion, 22 months is still a young baby. They are totally vulnerable and completely dependent upon their care givers at that tender age. They still do irrational things like put small objects or poisonous substances in their mouths, fall off of things or out of things, etc etc.

My friend looked in her rear view mirror and saw that her 2 yr old was sucking on a small plastic bag from her older sibs lunch, and had sucked it partially into her throat. She pulled off the road and got it clear from her throat in seconds, as her daughter was gasping for air. And as I had stated, my 18 month old inexplicably put a shiny penny in her mouth and was sucking on it. I never noticed but my 5 year old came and told me. It could have been a disaster if it became lodged in her throat.

So in my opinion, one needs to watch 2 yr olds very carefully. They are still vulnerable young things, imo. And it was very negligent of Ross to be so distracted and disconnected from his YOUNG baby. That showed a level of dispassion and disconnection, imo.

As for the definition of 'love' ---I suppose we all have our own personal standards. I think that LOVE for a child is also seen by the level of care and concern shown for that child. I can easily say I love my baby---but if I leave my baby all alone at home while I go to a club , or I drive my baby around while I am too drunk to walk, or I allow a sex offender to watch my baby while I go to party with my girlfriends, then maybe others would question my definition of 'love.'

I think it is fine that Leanne is standing up in support of her ex husband. If she wants to describe him as a wonderful father that loved his son, good for her. But I am not going to accept it at face value just because she thinks it is so. Because my definition of parental 'love' includes caring for and protecting one's children.


ETA: I do remember one case in which I felt total sympathy for the father, in a hot car death. I don't remember all of the details, except it was something like a Father, with a very young child, and his wife was in the hospital with cancer. And he was spending time with her there, and working full time , and driving the child to daycare. It was not something he usually did. And he was exhausted because of the schedule and the emotional stress. And he went to work one morning and forgot to drop off the child. I believe he truly loved his baby but the circumstances were so stressful and difficult that he had a memory lapse. jmo

Katydid, it is, of course, your right to use whatever term that you please. If I am to speak honestly, I have never heard the term "young baby" used in reference to a child's age before. Young child, but never young baby. For legal and medical purposes, Cooper would not be classified a baby. The term "baby" is used to classify "0-12 months" of age. You only have to do a quick google search to find this is true. I suppose we need to agree to disagree on this one. :)

I don't agree that children approaching the age of 2-yrs. old are or should be totally dependent. As children grow and develop, most parents start allowing a child to independently do some things on their own. I'm not suggesting that a 2-yr. old be left alone. With proper supervision, a 2 yr. old can and should be learning to do many things on their own. I have been privy to a couple of parents that have impeded a child's development by not allowing them to independently do things, appropriate for their age.

I think a parent can be immature, impatient and less vigilant than the standards reflected in your posts and still have love for their child. IMO

For me, it doesn't take an extreme set of sympathetic circumstances to have sympathy for parents that have suffered the consequences of the hot car death of their child. I'm sure many of these parents have also been exhausted because of the emotional stress of their schedule. I cannot in my mind, imagine what it must be like to suddenly find your child dead after having been forgotten and left in a car.


IMO
 
I am trying to be open minded and not emotionally charged in this case (or any I choose to follow). *Not condeming anyone for being emotional in their opinions. I respect everyone's opinion, this is just mine. Any case that is on WS or true crimes that don't make it here have a big emotional pull due to the fact of sheer nature of the crime. They are all brutal and should never happened to begin with in a perfect world. Sadly we do not live in a perfect world. I personally do not follow for an emotional reason. Does not mean I do not empathize with victims/families. I do. I just can't be open minded if I do that following a case.

**Snipped for Brevity **

^This would be me.^ :)

In this case, I don't have any feelings one way or the other for Ross Harris. I don't hate him nor do I like him.
 
I think something important to keep in mind is that just because someone loves their child, it doesn't necessarily make them a good parent or incapable of killing their own kid.

It wasn't so long ago before modern life that parents would sometimes kill their kids as an act of mercy because they were born so severely disfigured or disabled that leaving them alive would have condemned them to a life of extreme hardship and eventual starvation if something happened to the caregivers. Before the days of birth control, infanticide was a common practice since parents had to choose between providing for the new baby or providing for the numerous other kids that were already born. It is horrifying to think about (and disabled people are still disproportionately victims of violence) but the killings weren't perpetrated by hate. They were motivated by hard choices and consideration for the other children in the household.

I have often wondered if this was ever a medical issue with Cooper, because the way LH and JH talk about him, they've said they don't want him back because of the challenges he would have faced. I have never ever seen a parent say such a thing about their own child who died prematurely, and I can't ever recall ever hearing the parent of a disabled child saying such a thing either.

Respectfully BBM, 1) Cooper per his autopsy report was a healthy toddler, so no medical issue. Cooper Autopsy report http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf

2) I have heard many parents or family members say before that they would not bring the loved one back.Reasoning (JMHO) the crazy world we live in or Heaven as they have beliefs that in a way better place than we Earthlings live in/no suffering/have a perfect body. BUT none of those individuals saying this does not mean they don't grieve for their loved one or miss them tremendously. JMHO * I have heard it from very religious to not religious at all say something along this line.*
 
Kilgore said his back window was totally visible to any passerby.

Nope, he paid no attn. to the passerby in the parking lot.

Sorry, I don't have links to support. Kilgore addressed the back window in his opening statement. You can listen to the AJC podcast #2 for information on the passerby in the parking lot. :)

Agree. Unless you are driving a work van or tractor trailer; Then usually a person would put their right arm on the head rest of the passenger seat while turning their heads to the right and look behind them to make sure that things are clear and your reversal aligning is in sync.

Then you use your side or top rear view mirrors to have a detail view of staying in the lines or whatever else. Jmo

So he should have seen Cooper at least before work or during lunch or after work.

So he should have a peripheral vision test done as well. Jmo
 
Respectfully BBM, 1) Cooper per his autopsy report was a healthy toddler, so no medical issue. Cooper Autopsy report http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf

2) I have heard many parents or family members say before that they would not bring the loved one back.Reasoning (JMHO) the crazy world we live in or Heaven as they have beliefs that in a way better place than we Earthlings live in/no suffering/have a perfect body. BUT none of those individuals saying this does not mean they don't grieve for their loved one or miss them tremendously. JMHO * I have heard it from very religious to not religious at all say something along this line.*

After a death, It's common to hear people say, "s/he is in a better place." Saying,"we would not bring the person back", goes along with the same line of thinking. IMO
 
7/23/14 K_Z #11 Autopsy Thread http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...f-death-discuss-here&p=10781156#post10781156
Regarding the fresh abrasions on the back of Cooper's head, I wanted to point out that he was placed on a very hot parking lot pavement, without any padding or insulation/ buffer between his head and the very hot pavement. He appears to be very fair skinned in living pics, with thin/ fine head hair. It is possible that the abrasions to the back of his head occurred inadvertently during the CPR attempts at the scene in the Italian restaurant parking lot. There is a presumption that they occurred during Cooper's confinement and death in the carseat, which is also a possibility. I just wanted to present another possibility, FWIW.

However, it should be quite obvious to the ME whether the abrasions occurred while Cooper's heart was still beating, or whether the abrasions occurred post mortem. We just don't know the official ME answer to that question, yet.

And another very sad thought-- if the back of the head abrasions occurred while Cooper was alive, with a beating heart, well, then there may be blood evidence on the headrest area of the carseat.

Just as there may be epidermal and blood evidence under Cooper's fingernails, if the fresh facial scratches were self inflicted.

RBBM JMHO this is what the parched abrasions were that were noted. Great observation K_Z!
pg 13/18 http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf
also, it appears that his little fingernails were short and clean.
 
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