The SODDI Defense (Some Other Dude Did It)...If not KC, who?

[nephers]

No worries---relax---I watched NG last night also. That video you are talking about wasn't to long after KC went to jail. He watched her in the jailhouse tape and the poor guy was probably still in shock. He was still having a hard time putting the idea of her killing Caylee into his brain. He was just another stepping stone KC used to walk her pathway of destruction. :blowkiss:

I didn't catch NG last night but I know the video you guys are discussing...

Mamabear, I totally agree and wanted to add that JG loved KC very much, or at least the KC he thought he knew. I think prior to everything happening, he still had the thought that there was maybe a shot at the two of them getting back together and raising Caylee as his own. This has to be hard for him, he lost two females that he loved very much.

 

[Phumi]

Last night on NG they did that show focusing on KC's boyfriends.My hinky meter started going off a bit with JG.I have to say I have never suspected him of any involvement,but listening to some of what he said just gave me the heebie geebies.
He kept saying he couldn't reconcile the KC in jail with the KC he knew.He would never come out and say he felt she had killed,or even hurt ,Caylee.He talked about Caylee loving the playhouse and that would be THE place KC would put Caylee's body if something had happened to her.He thought that if she was in a panic after an accident the playhouse would be where KC would place her body.Who would even think to say that?He also said he could see KC being so upset if Caylee died in an accident ,that she would make up a story in her head and go on as though everything was okay [paraphrasing]
He sort of kept on the accident idea[at least NG kept attributing that idea to JG].
IIRC he told LE he talked to KC and heard Caylee in the background well after it's believed Caylee died.
And then there's KC telling her parents to stay away from JG. Maybe because she thought he'd break under pressure?
Could JG have helped KC? and is trying to help her wiggle out of this?
Deep down I don't want to believe it.Maybe KC convinced him there was an accident and convinced him to help her.IDK but I have new questions after hearing all his statements together in one place.
The last thing I want to do is tarnish someones good name. I have a lot of respect for Jesse and his family.He really stepped up as Caylee's dad when he didn't have to. It's some of his statements that now make me wonder.Please convince me I'm way off base with my concerns!

My thoughts regarding the bold (my bold) statements:

At this time, Jesse would have known that the cadaver dogs had hit in the backyard. I think he may have been trying to figure out why that would be the case, and thought of how much Caylee loved her playhouse and reasoned that it would be an easy and "meaningful" place for KC to hide Caylee's body.


Regarding Jesse hearing Caylee, it occured to me that KC might have played the Father's Day video of Caylee while she was on the phone with Jesse (Jesse said he couldn't understand what Caylee was saying, just heard her voice). She could have thrown in the "get off the table" comment to make it seem like she was talking to Caylee at that moment. Later, when Jesse realizes that Caylee was already gone at that point, he convinces himself that
his memory of the dates must be faulty.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I wish I could have been a fly on the wall on the day that KC showed up at JG's to take a shower. What did they talk about? How did she explain Caylee not being with her? I guess she told him she was with the imaginanny!

 

[Balthazar]

Yes but that's a fantasy not a theory?

As I pointed out from the outset there is nothing to base the initial premise of drugs/sex etc on, so extending the story based on nothing, based on further non evidence gets us nowhere.

You are mistaken that "there is nothing to base the initial premise of drugs/sex etc. on..." The FBI agent discussed with George that Casey had over 1200 indiscreet photos on her computer that the FBI agent described as really bad. If the FBI agent said they were really bad - they were REALLY BAD - much worse than your average *advertiser censored*. Remember he told George if they were on the home computer they were almost certainly out on the internet somewhere and would surface...but only one possible photo has appeared. I suspect that Casey had a little business going - maybe selling these photos over Craig's List or to some *advertiser censored* distributor pyramid scheme. It is possible she had just started the business and not much had gotten out so far. Whatever she was doing, this is evidence and must be taken into account. Unfortunately, we don't have any of the details of exactly what this was yet. But I think it's something that has to be taken very seriously and cannot be discounted.

 

[Balthazar]

Every time I consider a theory like SODDI I keep coming back to KC. When she found Caylee missing, if she had nothing to do with her child becoming a missing child why wouldn't she call 911? Esp. if she had been stalked previously.

Another question I would have is if SODDI then why would KC make up the Nanny, the two stories about Sawgrass and the park? Esp. if she had a sense of it being someone else? And why wouldn't she have a better, more complete story of how Caylee came to be missing? IOW if SODDI why has she consistently protected them?

Looking at KC's personality traits, KC appears to get frustrated easily and to anger easily. When angry she doesn't seem to remember what would be best for herself, let alone what might be best for someone else. So if her child came up missing, I can't see KC sitting down and thinking "well if I tell someone, then the unsub might get angry and retaliate." And even if she did think that, then when Caylee was found dead would have been a prime time to tell LE the truth, because the alleged perp didn't have any more leverage to harm.

The closest I am come to SODDI is if KC's boyfriend harmed Caylee and she was trying to protect him. But if that was so I would think that story would break down when she got charged with murder herself, and he broke off contact with her. I mean her daughter is dead, she is charged with murder and looking at the death penalty, and he isn't dancing attendance??? Sorry but I don't believe she is that altrustic.

Here's how the defense might answer your questions:

1. Why not report Caylee missing when she had been stalked: Battered woman defense. Casey was too afraid to tell anyone. She believed if she cooperated with her stalker she would get Caylee back. There are two types of battery: physical and emotional. We don't see any signs of physical battery, but Casey could have been emotionally abused by her stalker.

2. Nanny story: SODDI gave it to Casey. She was following orders.

3. Why not tell after Caylee was found dead: We actually have seen Casey attempt to talk to police on the day she was arrested for murder, but Baez took her aside and stopped her. So, this could be due to her attoney's influence. If it were you or me, in a similar situation we might tell our attorney to "F" off and go ahead and tell the police the whole story, but in the case of a stalked/abused woman, she might be so under the influence of her "white knight" (her attorney) that she meekly does whatever he says. Does the perp have some other means to harm? Has he threatened Casey that he would kill her whole family? We don't know. But in an abused/stalked woman scenario if he killed Caylee and Casey was already under his thumb before this, then she would be likely to believe that he WOULD kill her whole family and as a result she would keep silent and follow her attorney's instructions. The fact that Casey has been arrested for this might even be proof to her of the power of her stalker - he may have told her this is what would happen to her.

I've been thinking about Casey's irrational rage behavior toward her parents and to me that is indicative of someone who is depressed and many women who are stalked do suffer from depression.

I'm not saying all this is true, but I do think this is a way that the defense could create reasonable doubt in this case.

 

[Balthazar]

I have been reading through some posts and catching up and am still amazed to read posters stating that they are not sure Casey murdered her daughter.

If Casey didn't do it? Who did? What evidence points to a different murderer other than Casey?

I am equally amazed to read posters stating that they are certain of Casey's guilt and that she murdered her daughter. in this country, a defendent is innocent until proven guilty.

I think it is important to remember that ALL of the evidence that has been revealed thusfar to the public is the PROSECUTION'S case. Of course it is going to make Casey look guilty!!! That is the entire point of the prosecution's case - to prove Casey's guilt! The prosecution would NEVER have ANY evidence that points to a different murderer other than Casey!

The question should be, what evidence do we have that could indicate another person was responsible for this crime. As with any case, there is a mixture of facts and possibilities. We do know that there are innocent people who have been convicted of crimes under the United States Justice system. It's an unfortunate fact.

As to whether or not Casey is guilty, I have no way of knowing. I don't know what her attorney knows. I don't know what facts and evidence that the Prosecution has left out of their case in developing the case against Casey. Which is why people should wait for the trial to be complete BEFORE making up their mind about a defendants guilt or innocence. Yes, the Prosecutors case makes Casey look guilty, which is as it should be, but as far as what has been released it is entirely circumstantial AND entirely the prosecutor's case. Without any direct evidence linking Casey to Caylee's death at this point, it is impossible to know for certain at this time if Casey is innocent or guilty.

 

[songline]

In the context of SODDI then, a clean up would have to be to tamper with evidence that shows somebody else did it?

Ultimately Casey would have been doing something wrong with someone shady if that is the Scenario.
And she is at minimum guilty of giving or leaving the kid with
Daddy would clean up to avoid any jail time, he must know these unsavory folks well,
just look here comes the Foundation!!!.

 

[songline]

Yes but that's a fantasy not a theory?
As I pointed out from the outset there is nothing to base the initial premise of drugs/sex etc on, so extending the story based on nothing, based on further non evidence gets us nowhere.

You have a right to your opinion.
But between fantasy and theory is a very fine line.

 

[USARDOG]

You are mistaken that "there is nothing to base the initial premise of drugs/sex etc. on..." The FBI agent discussed with George that Casey had over 1200 indiscreet photos on her computer that the FBI agent described as really bad. If the FBI agent said they were really bad - they were REALLY BAD - much worse than your average *advertiser censored*. .

Princess Rose, I can't find any evidence of the conversation you describe. Would you be kind enough to post a link to where you found it.

So far none of the theories thrown up for the SOD defense in this thread hold even moisture, let alone water. If my finger were on the button, I would be pressing it and sending dear KC on to her reward, which is what I think will happen all too soon.:clap:

IMO, the only real shot at an SOD would be CA. None of the SOD theories put forth are even interesting, and IMO, the jury would only laugh at these.

 

[songline]

This man clearly could be a viable suspect depending upon his whereabouts at the time of Caylee's disappearance:

1. Duct tape on the mouth and arms and legs of a 4 year old.
2. Getting the child's shorts out, placing a pair of women's shoes next to the child.
3. Makeshift bed for the child in the garage - would love to know exactly what that consisted of! Could it have been a fabric handled laundry hamper and child's blanket?
4. Lives 3 miles from the Anthony home.
5. Annie Downing, in her deposition, said that Casey was afraid of being close to her bedroom window and didn't want Annie to be close to the window either on the sleepover when Casey was out on bail. This perp is known for peeping in windows.
6. Great deal of police interest in Casey's shoes following discovery of Caylee's body. Were a pair of women's shoes with Caylee? This perp has an interest in small female children and women's shoes.
7. Casey told her friends that someone was tampering with her car. She kept running out of gas - thought the gas gauge might be broken - might someone have been siphoning her gas to control her or put her into rescue type situations? She had two flat tires in one night in May - no clear explanation. Then her daughter disappears in June. Could this be used as evidence of stalking?
8. This guy had access to his victim's house - a great deal of access, apparently and collected up specific items for his sick fantasy.
9. Pedophiles have been known to use chloroform to subdue their victims.

And if you think about it, Tim Miller told everyone where Caylee would be found in a parental murder on national TV - within a few miles of home. If a pedophile did take Caylee, I'm sure he'd be watching the TV coverage to stroke his ego on what he had done and it would only make sense to dispose of the child's body in a way that would implicate the mother since she is the suspect AND he knows the area. If this guy was in Orlando and can't exactly account for his whereabouts in the time period Caylee disappeared I could see how the defense could use this perp to create reasonable doubt.

Honestly, as little sense as Casey and her family have made during this whole thing, if I were police, I would check this guy out in great detail regarding Caylee so that he could be ruled out as a viable suspect and not used by defense to create reasonable doubt. And if he can't be ruled out...well then, that's a whole other story.

Although the evidence we have seen so far really makes Casey look guilty, I keep reminding myself that there is a reason for that and that is because it is the prosecution's case and therefore, it is specifically aimed at pointing towards Casey's guilt. Any evidence that would point away from Casey's guilt would be discarded by the prosecution as a matter of constructing as strong a case against her as possible. I also recognize that the case is entirely circumstantial at this point. There is still no direct evidence. I do believe in innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. As tough as it is to remain neutral and impartial about this very emotional case, I am doing so.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Princess Rose you are reading my mind, but you are expressing yourself far better then I am.
Thank you for this Post.
Like I too have said it may be Casey in the end; but for now we must look at all we can before we just close that door.
too many go away only to have a case solved 10 or more years down the road. But their lives were already innocently spent in jail. I do not want to see that.

 

[songline]

You are mistaken that "there is nothing to base the initial premise of drugs/sex etc. on..." The FBI agent discussed with George that Casey had over 1200 indiscreet photos on her computer that the FBI agent described as really bad. If the FBI agent said they were really bad - they were REALLY BAD - much worse than your average *advertiser censored*. Remember he told George if they were on the home computer they were almost certainly out on the internet somewhere and would surface...but only one possible photo has appeared. I suspect that Casey had a little business going - maybe selling these photos over Craig's List or to some *advertiser censored* distributor pyramid scheme. It is possible she had just started the business and not much had gotten out so far. Whatever she was doing, this is evidence and must be taken into account. Unfortunately, we don't have any of the details of exactly what this was yet. But I think it's something that has to be taken very seriously and cannot be discounted.

THAT IS CORRECT. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
And it is part of the information that may have led them to places that bring in the stuff that they may be holding close to the vest.
SINCE WHEN does an investigation release everything?
I love you for your willingness to go when most men dread to thread.

 

[USARDOG]

There is no evidence of KC working in either the dope business, or the sex trade. None of the people she spent her time with make any allegations with regard to these, and further, were she in either, she would not be stealing money from everyone she knew.

So far, IMO, the SOD defense is a bust. Perhaps better would be to drop back and try for insanity? Or just plead guilty and end this charade. There just is no evidence to implicate any other person, with the possible exception of CA.

 

[USARDOG]

Perhaps someone might discuss CA as the killer, for she had both, motive and access.

Perhaps that is what KC meant when she said, "Don't worry, I haven't told them anything."

We know CA is capable of telling any lie...

And, we have seen her charge down the drive way, hammer in hand, ready to strike a blow in anger. Perhaps she was so angry with KC that she, in a fit of anger killed little Caylee?

 

[songline]

Every time I consider a theory like SODDI I keep coming back to KC. When she found Caylee missing, if she had nothing to do with her child becoming a missing child why wouldn't she call 911? Esp. if she had been stalked previously.

Another question I would have is if SODDI then why would KC make up the Nanny, the two stories about Sawgrass and the park? Esp. if she had a sense of it being someone else? And why wouldn't she have a better, more complete story of how Caylee came to be missing? IOW if SODDI why has she consistently protected them?

Looking at KC's personality traits, KC appears to get frustrated easily and to anger easily. When angry she doesn't seem to remember what would be best for herself, let alone what might be best for someone else. So if her child came up missing, I can't see KC sitting down and thinking "well if I tell someone, then the unsub might get angry and retaliate." And even if she did think that, then when Caylee was found dead would have been a prime time to tell LE the truth, because the alleged perp didn't have any more leverage to harm.

The closest I am come to SODDI is if KC's boyfriend harmed Caylee and she was trying to protect him. But if that was so I would think that story would break down when she got charged with murder herself, and he broke off contact with her. I mean her daughter is dead, she is charged with murder and looking at the death penalty, and he isn't dancing attendance??? Sorry but I don't believe she is that altrustic.

She could not have thought anything through by herself. no, no.
That would be when family came to the rescue; hens the 31 days to let the body decompose, so that good evidence would not be available. "no story to tell"
Reason family would do that IMO hmmm tough one.
But I think that connecting all the dots would bring the case to some people that are connected in the jail and out of jail and they are afraid of them. Hens the Foundation and the money.

At the end of the day Casey would still be guilty for putting Caylee in danger.
What exactly Casey is guilty of remains open in my mind till the trial.

 

[Brini]

We have had a couple of instances here in L.A. that could be used as a template by the Defense.

One was the Mother of Emma who claimed she was attacked and knocked out in the park and the baby was gone, only to discover the baby dumped by the Mother.

The other was Mother's day and the childs parents claimed the boy was playing in the park and then he was gone, they could not find him, only to discover the parents dumped him.

This *could* be used as a theme that KC was with Caylee, she was distracted and then Caylee was gone. Child molester. KC was traumatized and could not tell her Mother and kept on waiting till another day and then when caught fabricated the nanny story.

Doesn't stand scrutiny though I am sure the Defense is weaving something that will touch many evidence points and will seek to eliminate others.

One would have to explain Caylee's decomposing DNA in KC's trunk.

The SODDI wold have to have access to KC's car, and the ability to get her to drive around with Caylee's body in the trunk.

 

[USARDOG]

She could not have thought anything through by herself. no, no.
That would be when family came to the rescue; hens the 31 days to let the body decompose, so that good evidence would not be available. "no story to tell"
Reason family would do that IMO hmmm tough one.
But I think that connecting all the dots would bring the case to some people that are connected in the jail and out of jail and they are afraid of them. Hens the Foundation and the money.

I hope the defense does not try something like this, it will only serve to have KC put to death.

 

[Brini]

I wondered why KC would go to that park with her child when she surely musta heard about the rapes on the local news.

Didn't they go there a lot? Caylee had a favorite playground, in that park.

And, didn't the rapist attack only adult women?

 

[Brini]

Funny, my signature used to say:
If you can't articulate your argument, you don't have one.

And I chose it specifically because of the SODDI whispers.

(Note - thanks to SteadFast for the sig line way back when - maybe I will borrow your bolded sentence above as this thread progresses.)

Exactly! Any plausible theory still has to speak to the evidence.

 

[Brini]

Ok. I'll bite.

Possible, but lacking supporting evidence AND what are the statistics/profile of rapist/murders who cross the child/adult victimology?

The rapes and murders were of women, not an almost 3 y/o. I don't think LE would look to the same suspect?

Lots more - but let's start with that and see what the rest come up with to refute this SODDI theory.

Precisely! Serial rapists of adults don't suddenly become pedophiles.

 

[Brini]

sure, you can borrow it, but I might want it back one day

IMHO SODDI theories will become less viable as more "hard" evidence emerges.
I have listed my best guesses what that evidence might be. I think there is something or several somethings that inspire the return of DP. I think this evidence will point to KC specifically, and not some imaginary SOD.

It already has. There's the "body in the trunk" problem.