The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #5

[pittsburghgirl]

Well--and I mean this for anyone who would abduct and kill three women--I think the trigger can be one of several things but I think of those triggers as more general.

One would be opportunity, which involves time, location, and materials. A time span in which the crime can be carried out, a place to take the women, a place to dispose of the bodies and running into the right victims in the right place at the right time, with the proper tools (guns, knives, duct tape, rope, vehicles--whatever the abductor uses). That is what cruising and stalking are about. Looking for opportunity.

If the perpetrator acts alone, there is probably some kind of building urge to do whatever it is that feeds that person's screwed-up needs. Some serial killers have a kind of timeable cycle; for others it might have to do circumstances in their lives. e.g., a killer who only kills while on the road for his job.

Other people could also be triggers; I am sure that some crimes would not be committed if two people crazy thoughts and evil urges didn't come together. In my local area, a group of people (fairly young) trapped, tortured and killed a young woman with mental disabilities. It is very unlikely that crime would have been committed by any ONE of those people.

MM, you know I agree with you about Cox and his need for multiple, changing alibis.

 

[Missouri Mule]

A somewhat obscure assertion I have heard is that Cox has allegedly said he would not reveal what he knows about the murders so long as his mother remains alive. I'm not certain but I believe his father has since passed away. Cox is also adopted according to my understanding.

I have expressed the view that of the known criminals in the Ozarks, Gerald Carnahan is the one I would look at most closely. Not only did he have the means, and the probable motive, but he had money; lots of money. He could have hired it out. He is suspected in several missing and murdered women in the area. Many people have expressed the view that he is somehow responsible for this crime.

I can't see him carrying out this crime but I could definitely see Cox as being able to carry out the crime alone. Personally, I am agnostic regarding Carnahan.

To my knowledge no one except Cox has been looked at as closely for this crime. It is well established that Garrison was believed, at least at one time, that he had some connection to the crime, or knew what happened. So far as I know, nothing he has ever provided has led anywhere. What one would make of the bizarre threat against his attorney is anyone's guess. I would surmise it was a ham fisted attempt to throw sand in the justice system's machinery. When he was sentenced for the rape of the college coed, he quietly accepted the verdict.

If Cox didn't do this, then Carnahan could have ordered it up, or we are probably looking at an unknown serial killer. Why he may have targeted these particular women is unknown.

The two things I would most like to know is who was cruising the neighborhood prior to the abductions and what the motive was. In my opinion, everything rests on determining the motive. It just seems so odd that with the literal 100s of people who associated with the women and knew them well, that someone or many couldn't have pointed out someone or some group with a grievance of some sort. Since we have no way to see the police investigation we are left to wonder how thorough this investigation was carried out.

 

[Jaya]

The great unknown, for me at least, is who and what was the business of that white van that roamed the area in the days leading up to the abduction? On that matter I can't reconcile Cox to the crime.

I've never been convinced that the white van "roaming" the area for a few days before the abduction is significant. The reason is that it was the beginning of summer, the most popular time to have work done in your home or yard. Remodeling a kitchen, changing flooring, fixing your roof, building a deck or fence, etc. etc., are all things that are typically hired out to companies that often use work vans or pickups for transporting materials. I used to be friends with a roofer who used an unmarked tan van for his work for years. It costs money to get a work vehicle customized with labels and decals and whatnot.

My point is that it is very possible that the white van in question was driving through the neighborhood each day to get to a specific house for a job. I realize there are a couple of issues with this hypothesis, the biggest one being why no one spoke up after suspicion of the white van came around and said "Oh those were just the guys that were building my fence." But,if the van was being used to observe behaviors and plan a robbery, abduction, rape, or whatever, why use such a memorable vehicle? You would think that someone who has being so planful as to observe the neighborhood for several days and had separate vehicles lined up for the "casing" and the actual crime would also think about using an inconspicuous vehicle.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I've never been convinced that the white van "roaming" the area for a few days before the abduction is significant. The reason is that it was the beginning of summer, the most popular time to have work done in your home or yard. Remodeling a kitchen, changing flooring, fixing your roof, building a deck or fence, etc. etc., are all things that are typically hired out to companies that often use work vans or pickups for transporting materials. I used to be friends with a roofer who used an unmarked tan van for his work for years. It costs money to get a work vehicle customized with labels and decals and whatnot.

My point is that it is very possible that the white van in question was driving through the neighborhood each day to get to a specific house for a job. I realize there are a couple of issues with this hypothesis, the biggest one being why no one spoke up after suspicion of the white van came around and said "Oh those were just the guys that were building my fence." But,if the van was being used to observe behaviors and plan a robbery, abduction, rape, or whatever, why use such a memorable vehicle? You would think that someone who has being so planful as to observe the neighborhood for several days and had separate vehicles lined up for the "casing" and the actual crime would also think about using an inconspicuous vehicle.

You may very well be correct. But the problem I have with that is that until it has been eliminated, we cannot with 100% certainty know that it was not involved. According to the news accounts it was seen for several days with the same driver in the area right up to the time the women went missing. After that, it was never seen again. That may very well be a coincidence, however I have never been a fan of coincidences.

Your point about not using such a conspicuous vehicle is well taken. I have often wondered about this from the very outset. Why use such a unique vehicle? I don't have an answer for that either.

This is not unlike the alleged sighting at George's. Most accounts seem to strongly indicate that it did not occur. Yet, it was never eliminated entirely as the former prosecutor wanted those men found and questioned.

Having said this, it would fit my own scenario better if it were not connected for I do believe that Cox is the perpetrator. Yet the white van in the neighborhood argues for something else. The driver did not appear to bear any resemblance to him. So who was this person? We just do not know.

 

[monkeymann]

Did everyone give up????? Where did everyone go???

 

[Missouri Mule]

Did everyone give up????? Where did everyone go???

I still check from time to time but what is there to say that hasn't already been said? Seems most people have theories but little proof. And we have a police department that has apparently decided or allowed the case to go dormant. What could be done that hasn't already been done or said?

 

[Kathee]

I've always thought that the girls stopped somewhere--George's? for cigarettes? And that stopped attracted someone's attention.

Sharon Zellers stopped for cigarettes and that stop garned the attention of Robert Craig Cox.

 

[Hurricane]

I think that Sherrill probably was a chain smoker. Back in 1992 you could still smoke just about anywhere and she probably smoked all day long as she worked. But Suzie’s friends all say that she was just a beginner and not a chain smoker, and that she didn’t smoke that much. There was an open pack of cigarettes with only a few missing found on the nightstand in Suzie’s bedroom. It is unknown if any cigarettes were found in her purse. The two unopened packs and lighters found near the purses could very well have been for Sherrill. Suzie wasn’t feeling well. I don’t see anything to indicate that the girls might have stopped somewhere on the way home.

Suzie and Sherrill had pizza for dinner at home together. There likely would have been leftover pizza in the refrigerator. One of Suzie’s friends stopped by the house to deliver a cake as a graduation gift just before she went out. At the parties Suzie and Stacy could have had a beer or two plus some snacks during the evening, but none of their friends have ever said that either girl was drunk. Only that Suzie didn’t feel well. Upon returning to 1717 if either girl was hungry there would have been pizza or cake to snack on before bed. No reason to go to George’s restaurant.

Didn’t Sharon Zellers work at Disney World where Cox and his family spent the day?

 

[Indianagirl]

Sharon Zellers stopped for cigarettes and that stop garned the attention of Robert Craig Cox.

Thanks for this info Kathee! Maybe it has been too long, but for some reason I was under the impression Sharon met RCC at the place she worked at. Is that wrong? TIA

 

[Indianagirl]

I think that Sherrill probably was a chain smoker. Back in 1992 you could still smoke just about anywhere and she probably smoked all day long as she worked. But Suzie’s friends all say that she was just a beginner and not a chain smoker, and that she didn’t smoke that much. There was an open pack of cigarettes with only a few missing found on the nightstand in Suzie’s bedroom. It is unknown if any cigarettes were found in her purse. The two unopened packs and lighters found near the purses could very well have been for Sherrill. Suzie wasn’t feeling well. I don’t see anything to indicate that the girls might have stopped somewhere on the way home.

Suzie and Sherrill had pizza for dinner at home together. There likely would have been leftover pizza in the refrigerator. One of Suzie’s friends stopped by the house to deliver a cake as a graduation gift just before she went out. At the parties Suzie and Stacy could have had a beer or two plus some snacks during the evening, but none of their friends have ever said that either girl was drunk. Only that Suzie didn’t feel well. Upon returning to 1717 if either girl was hungry there would have been pizza or cake to snack on before bed. No reason to go to George’s restaurant.

Didn’t Sharon Zellers work at Disney World where Cox and his family spent the day?

I was unaware there were 2 unopened packs of cigarettes near the purses. Thanks for this info! Did Suzie and Sherrill smoke the same brand?

Also, just wanted to back up your post about Suzie's stomach ache. I don't have a link handy, but I've read several news articles that have stated Suzie was complaining of a stomach ache before the parties even started. So, it appears it wasn't due to drinking and like you said no one reported the girls had been drinking heavily that night, or for that matter drinking at all.

Great point about left over pizza being at the house to eat.

Overall, I completely agree with your assessment! With food and cigarettes at the house, what else would the girls need to stop for? Gas? Is there any info about the level of gas each car had?

 

[Hurricane]

I was unaware there were 2 unopened packs of cigarettes near the purses. Thanks for this info!

Did Suzie and Sherrill smoke the same brand?

Also, just wanted to back up your post about Suzie's stomach ache. I don't have a link handy, but I've read several news articles that have stated Suzie was complaining of a stomach ache before the parties even started. So, it appears it wasn't due to drinking and like you said no one reported the girls had been drinking heavily that night, or for that matter drinking at all.

Great point about left over pizza being at the house to eat.

Overall, I completely agree with your assessment! With food and cigarettes at the house, what else would the girls need to stop for?

Gas? Is there any info about the level of gas each car had?[/

quote]


I’m not sure but I doubt they smoked the same brand of cigarettes. If I recall correctly Suzie smoked Marlboro Lights. There is a video shot of the nightstand in her bedroom with a pack clearly visible. As a long time smoker Sherrill probably smoked a stronger brand of cigarette but I don’t recall any public info concerning her brand.

I am not aware of any records concerning the amount of gasoline in each of the girl’s cars but I would have thought that if gasoline was needed by either of them they would have filled up earlier in the evening on the way to Battlefield. Even though we don’t know what the transportation plans were to go to Branson as originally planned for that night, I would think that if they needed gasoline they would not have waited until late to fill up.

Just to clarify my question concerning Sharon Zellers working at Disney World. I did not intend to imply that she wasn’t abducted by Cox as she stopped to buy cigarettes; only that he may have seen her earlier that day in the amusement park.

 

[Kathee]

Didn’t Sharon Zellers work at Disney World where Cox and his family spent the day?

Sharon was on her way home from work at Disney World when she was abducted. I have no information on whether Cox spotted her at work. I will ask her brother if he knows.

 

[Hurricane]

Sharon was on her way home from work at Disney World when she was abducted. I have no information on whether Cox spotted her at work. I will ask her brother if he knows.

I don't know if we will ever know if he saw Sharon working in the amusement park that day unless it came out during testimony in the trial. There is a possibility that he could have and when he saw her again later that night when she stopped to buy cigarettes he remembered her and that crime was purely reactionary and spontaneous. It certainly wasn't preplanned.

 

[Kathee]

I don't know if we will ever know if he saw Sharon working in the amusement park that day unless it came out during testimony in the trial. There is a possibility that he could have and when he saw her again later that night when she stopped to buy cigarettes he remembered her and that crime was purely reactionary and spontaneous. It certainly wasn't preplanned.

According to Jeff Ashton, the prosecutor who tried Cox, "He did not go to Disney before the murder. They had only arrived that day."

 

[Esperanza]

Hello all! I find this website to be very interesting and think all of your ideas are great for potentially solving this case or at least generating a much needed tip to help the investigation. I can explain something about whether or not the girls might want to stop at George’s restaurant that night.

First, I would like to share that I have lived in Springfield for the past 19 years and grew up in the surrounding area. I did not know Stacy and Suzie personally, but I too graduated in 1992 from a nearby school and have always been saddened by this mysterious case and still hope for answers.

I have a completely different perspective on the issue of the girls having leftover pizza and cake for a snack versus stopping at George’s. Being from their age group and here in town at that same time, I experienced going to eat at George’s as THE thing to do late at night when most everything else was closed. Being near large colleges and the downtown area, it was more of a social scene than just a restaurant for nourishment. All the bars/nightclubs closed at 1:00am and my friends and I often headed to George’s afterward to not only get some much needed food after partying (they did have excellent food!) but sometimes to continue socializing with new people we met at the club or party in town that night. It seemed safe to meet up at this public place and continue getting to know the new guys you had just met on a deafening dance floor, for example, or continue to mingle with new people. Furthermore, 1:00am or even 2:00 is way too early to call it a night (stomach ache or not)--especially when you’re that young and excited about a graduation milestone.

Due to the social atmosphere, great comfort food, open hours, and location; I think it’s very possible that these young women could have continued their celebration at George’s before heading home. This may have not been the scenario in this case, but a stranger could have easily followed them home unnoticed, as this restaurant is located only about one mile from 1717, straight down Glenstone Avenue.

 

[Hurricane]

According to Jeff Ashton, the prosecutor who tried Cox, "He did not go to Disney before the murder. They had only arrived that day."

Is this the same Jeff Ashton involved in the Casey Anthony case in FL?

 

[Kathee]

Is this the same Jeff Ashton involved in the Casey Anthony case in FL?

Yes, it is.

 

[Hurricane]

Yes, it is.

Thanks Kathee. I figured that it had to be the same one. That means he was a very young prosecutor at the time of the Zellers case. I know that case was only a circumstantial case. Ashton may have contributed to why it was eventually overturned.

I know this is not the Casey Anthony thread but I think Ashton lost the jury in his opening statement I think it was when he asked the jury “why would anyone want to make an accident look like a murder?” then failed to tell them why.

 

[MHamby]

Thanks Kathee. I figured that it had to be the same one. That means he was a very young prosecutor at the time of the Zellers case. I know that case was only a circumstantial case. Ashton may have contributed to why it was eventually overturned.

I know this is not the Casey Anthony thread but I think Ashton lost the jury in his opening statement I think it was when he asked the jury “why would anyone want to make an accident look like a murder?” then failed to tell them why.

Eh, he didn't lose the case. The circumstantial evidence did. When everything is said and done, those jurors would rather see a guilty person go free than an innocent person serve time. And, IMO, that is the way it should be.

Unfortunately, in the Anthony case, there is no way to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that she killed her daughter.

I personally felt that Ashton was giving a crappy hand and did what he could. If there were any attorneys who I thought didn't do a particularly good job it was the defense attorneys. They just got lucky that the circumstantial evidence wasn't enough. They were all over the place and their theories were quite unfounded.

 

[Esperanza]

Since this is the three missing Springfield women’s case thread, all interested please respond to the following.

Sadly, there is little concrete evidence to consider in this case. However, the spiritual world is another matter. A renown Springfield psychic gave a reading on this case in 1996. I believe that the intuitive interpretation of this case actually yields answers on a PHYSICAL MAP of Springfield, Missouri. Therefore, you and I have the power to solve this crime!!! Let’s put our heads together and consider how we can translate the following information to match today’s locale on a map.

"I saw Suzie," she said. "I don't know how I knew who she was, I just knew it was Suzie Streeter, one of the three missing women. She was wearing a simple cotton dress, with a small floral print. She was barefoot. She led me to an area of ground shaped like a triangle. The triangle was as large as a field, and had what looked like an old wagon track cutting through it on one side. Out in the center of the triangular area is an old cistern, which is like a well for drawing water. This is a concrete cylinder sticking up out of the ground, with a round wooden cover. The cistern is washed out on one side, and doesn't hold water any more.
"Suzie showed me where the cistern was, but we couldn't go straight to it. We had to walk the triangle then through the underbrush to the cistern. As we began to walk toward the cistern, the brush got so high and thick, I couldn't get through. I thought, 'How am I supposed to get through here,' when suddenly I felt myself being lifted and carried around my waist, by a large, strong person, who had me under one arm, and was carrying me with my head and feet hanging down, and he carried me over the brush to the top of the cistern. It was wood, about three feet in diameter.
"Then we were down in the cistern, which was like being in an underground room. One side of the cistern had washed out, and there was an opening about the size of a two-car garage leading out . The cistern cover was above us, over our heads. There were rocks [the size of softballs] under our feet, and down around the rocks, I could see water moving. That's where they are. They are in that cistern. They are near water. I saw two men there. One wore a hat like Colonel Hogan on Hogan's Heroes. The other was the big man.”

What does anyone think about this?

What are your ideas about of any of this?