The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

[Hippy Chick]

Bumping for Sherrill, Suzy and Stacy

 

[fullmoon]

I am slogging away at reading all the threads hoping to read up as much as possible on this case. I am very impressed with everyone's theories and analyses.

The more I read, the more I believe that Sherrill may have been the target, in my opinion. How many people knew that Sherrill was alone that night? Could she have innocently stated to people she spoke to on the phone, or to a neighbor, that she had the house all to herself that night? I believe it may have been someone she knew, either an acquaintance or someone who may have even overheard her say she was alone that night. Maybe that's why her blinds were parted. If someone had knocked on her door, she would have been looking out the window to see whose car was parked out front in an effort to identify the person. If there were no signs of forced entry, and Sherrill was security conscious, I doubt she would have let someone in unless she knew them.

I also don’t think as someone has posted previously on this board, that the perp went through Sherill’s window, mostly because she had a Yorkie in the house. Dogs, for the most part, start barking loudly when they hear foot steps in the front of the house. I just don’t think it was a stranger who sneaked into the house through a window or any other way. No way. Not with the dog in there. I’m a long time dog owner, had them in all sizes. All of them barked whenever someone was even near our home. And we never ignored it. Never. There are certain characteristics or patterns of a dog's bark: For example, I always knew when our dogs were barking at another dog, rabbit, etc., compared to a stranger. When they barked regarding another animal wandering around the yard, the bark was pronounced before trailing off to a whimper or cry because they wanted to go outside. When it was a "stranger" bark, the sound was very loud and booming, with little space between the barks, as if the dog was trying to alert the family. Those of you who have had dogs know pretty much what I'm talking about.

There has been some reference to a footprint left by Stacy at the front of the house. I have been reading all of the articles, but I have not found anything about that. Is this fact?

I am trying to find the original police report, since the link on the board does not work. If anyone has a copy, I would appreciate it if you could post it for me. Thanks.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I am slogging away at reading all the threads hoping to read up as much as possible on this case. I am very impressed with everyone's theories and analyses.

The more I read, the more I believe that Sherrill may have been the target, in my opinion. How many people knew that Sherrill was alone that night? Could she have innocently stated to people she spoke to on the phone, or to a neighbor, that she had the house all to herself that night? I believe it may have been someone she knew, either an acquaintance or someone who may have even overheard her say she was alone that night. Maybe that's why her blinds were parted. If someone had knocked on her door, she would have been looking out the window to see whose car was parked out front in an effort to identify the person. If there were no signs of forced entry, and Sherrill was security conscious, I doubt she would have let someone in unless she knew them.

I also don’t think as someone has posted previously on this board, that the perp went through Sherill’s window, mostly because she had a Yorkie in the house. Dogs, for the most part, start barking loudly when they hear foot steps in the front of the house. I just don’t think it was a stranger who sneaked into the house through a window or any other way. No way. Not with the dog in there. I’m a long time dog owner, had them in all sizes. All of them barked whenever someone was even near our home. And we never ignored it. Never. There are certain characteristics or patterns of a dog's bark: For example, I always knew when our dogs were barking at another dog, rabbit, etc., compared to a stranger. When they barked regarding another animal wandering around the yard, the bark was pronounced before trailing off to a whimper or cry because they wanted to go outside. When it was a "stranger" bark, the sound was very loud and booming, with little space between the barks, as if the dog was trying to alert the family. Those of you who have had dogs know pretty much what I'm talking about.

There has been some reference to a footprint left by Stacy at the front of the house. I have been reading all of the articles, but I have not found anything about that. Is this fact?

I am trying to find the original police report, since the link on the board does not work. If anyone has a copy, I would appreciate it if you could post it for me. Thanks.

I've got a hard copy of the police report. Perhaps I could respond to some specific questions. I'm not very accomplished at scanning paperwork.

The footprint has been corrected by some to merely be DNA on the front side of the house. I'm not clear on that myself.

I believe the various LE agencies (four in all) more or less concluded that Sherrill was the likely target and it was sexual assault. But that is based more on theory than substance from what we have been privy to. The hole in that theory is that anytime after 11:15 PM she would have been available to abduct and there was no reason to wait until perhaps 3:30 AM in the morning. However, it is not known, so far as I know, that she was even in the house when the girls arrived. So it is just speculation for the most part.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Below is c/p post with particular focus BBM and is followed by my thoughts/opinions regarding that particular item of focus as well as my thoughts/views about various different options concerning the globe as well as the entry point/time made by the perp(s)..

All jmo, of course..

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeymann (c/p from thread #5 post#593)
The only problem with that theory is that, do you really think that Sherrills closet would have become that noticeably discombobulated/disorganized due to one random event of her quickly searching for a pair of shoes.*

And, wouldn't you think that she would have reached for the shoes or house slippers she had been wearing last, prior to her climbing into bed, where it is assumed that Sherrill had been at the time of the start of the abduction.

I'd say it is more likely that:

1.) Sherrills closet was just naturally cluttered.

2.) Someone had gone through the closet looking for something.

-OR_

3.) Someone had hidden in the closet at some point....either Perp. or Victim.

To my knowledge there has never been further clarification on the state of Sherrill's closet.. Initially due to the factoids being presented as such indicating the two girls had long since arrived home PRIOR to any of the perps making entry into the home(ie.. Their state of undress or changing of clothes, make up removed, bed covers pulled down, tv on, etc).. I do not at this time believe that necessarily had to be true(IMO it really could go either way.. The girls arrive PRIOR TO entry of perps.. Or the girls arrive AFTER the entry of perps)...*

I find it both plausible and possible that if planned that Sherrill was the intended victim, and the perp made entry into the home when Sherrill was home alone.. I believe the entry into a window given as a possibility by Hurricane, if there is indeed truth to Sherrill's window or any other window not being locked I find it very easy to believe that as the initial entry point.. If for some reason the detail of such a window being unlocked that night is not true..then I refer back to entry point of front door..

IMO the globe very easily could go several different ways..It could have been broken nearing the end and final stages of the abduction when the women were being forcefully removed or carried from the home, and it not believed to have been of any importance in feeling it needed to be cleaned up and discarded.. I also believe it possible to have occurred at the very beginning stages of the crime prior to the perp gaining entry.. It too forks and could go either of two ways IMO..

First in that the perp was on the front porch and for any number of reasons wanted to extinguish the bright and visible porch light.. With his being on the outside of the home of course that renders him unable to simply switch off the porch light.. Therefor he's left with only the option to unscrew the bulb as a means of extinguishing that particular light.. And the globe would have to removed in order to have access to unscrew the bulb.. I can see how in this instance the globe is dropped&broken in that process of getting to the bulb by complete accident and was not the intent of the perp.. Upon his doing so he has to forego unscrewing the bulb and extinguishing the light as he knows the shattered glass has now brought immediate attention to the front porch(as in he could hear the dog start barking crazily... Or See lights turning on as Sherril made her way to the front of the house to see why she'd heard glass breaking&her dog barking).. The perp doesn't have time to unscrew the bulb and is forced to hide or crouch out of plain sight while quickly reassessing the situation&how to proceed from there..

I find it altogether possible that the perps accidentally dropping/shattering the globe actually may have thereby presented itself with the perfect opportunity for him to now gain entry to the home.. This due to the fact that Sherrill opens the front door for the purpose to merely inspect what/why she'd heard breaking glass on her front porch..and in her doing so this allowing the perp to take advantage of that perfect opportunity as it presented itself by overpowering and pushing Sherrill and himself thru the front doors entrance and therefor now successfully inside the home..(and the other of the two possibilities is that whereas the above described mode of gain accessed was presented via an accidental breaking of the globe while the perp was attempting to unscrew bulb so as to better operate under the cover of darkness.. The second possibility was that the globe was actually broken intentionally with and for this exact same motive.. Both ending with the same result of the perp having successfully gained entry into the home via the front door)...

If the globe was broken in the initial stages of the crime as just described then IMO the bedroom closet may not play as big a role as I earlier pondered on.. But if the entry point into the home was made elsewhere from the front door via Sherrills opening it..rather the perp enters of his own doing&volition without Sherrills assistance or even knowledge then I find a possible role involving the closet to more believeable.. In that Sherrill once becoming aware that a perp is actually inside her home that she intends to hide possibly using the closet as that chosen area to seek cover.. Her hoping that the intruder would be of the mindset that he'd entered a home where no one was presently home(yes, her car was there but that by no means guaranteed the cars owner was definitely there).. I find it possible(regardless whether Sherrill was hidden in her closet with initial contact between she&the perp not yet made.. Or whether that initial contact was already made with Sherrill already under the control of the perp).. Either way I do believe it possible that the girls arrived home AFTER the perp was already In the home(if that occurred ill state that moo is that the globe HAD NOT YET BEEN BROKEN.. Due to the fact that I believe that if the globe was shattered that upon entering Suzie would have Immediaely initiated contact w/her mom to ask/tell about the globe.. Check to see mom was ok).. So, the girls enter the home and for the following 10-20minutes go about their regular routine of undressing, washing face, and getting ready for bed.. I find it absolutely plausible that during that amount of time that they would have no idea as to what possible situation was presently happening in moms room..Suzie believing mom to be fast asleep and therefor her&her friend prep for bed. .. I think we'd all agree that Sherrill wouldn't make a single peep of a sound regardless of whether she was still hidden in her closet or was in her bedroom along with the perp.. She'd remain quiet in hopes of the perp not harming the girls.. If she was hidden in the closet I find it possible that the girls are exactly what forced her to emerge either due to hearing the perp having made initial contact with the girls at some point, therefor Sherrill emerges in hopes to somehow keep the girls from being harmed(any mother would sacrifice their life for their child in a heartbeat)..*

Or more likely is the fact that Sherrill and the perp are in her bedroom when the girls arrive and they prep for bed Sherrill cooperating fully in not making a sound in hopes that the girls will quickly go to sleep, and thereby the perp allowing the girls to remain unharmed and unaware of even his existence.. I find that scenario almost probable IMO.. But for various different reasons either due to Suzie after having finished getting ready for bed, she then goes into her moms room to let mom know they'd come home&were going to sleep.. And it is at that point that Suzie becomes aware of the situatiom(and many have theorized from that point on including of Stacy's having possibly heard the situation and attempted to flee at that point..)..

Or even if Suzie did not go into moms room, it's also altogether possible, especially with sexual motive that the perp(s) waited til the 2 girls were at their most vulnerable, in bed, possibly even asleep when the perps at that point made themselves known to the girls.. Resulting in all 3 females being forcefully removed from the home and the globe is broken in those last stages of the crime while in the process of taking the victims out of the home..

Again I am still very much comfortable with the several varying details above described as truly possible of having gone any of those various ways all resulting in the same, sad ending of all 3 eventually becoming victims..

IMO definitely one thing I'm certain of is that there did not have to be a level of trust, or even familiarity known between any of the three victims and the perps.. There are very plausible, if not even probable modes of easy entry into the home, access and control of all 3 victims WITHOUT any of the victims having to have willfully allowed or permitted the perps entry into the home no matter what the actual entry point proves to be..

Again all jmo, tho..

 

[SmoothOperator]

Originally Posted by central time (c/p from thread #5 post#612)
This is another reason why I've been skeptical of the 'First Responders.' The casual line from Jannelle, when coming and leaving the vacant Levitt house, '...guess they went to Branson.' If Stacy didn't have a bag, was she going to go to Branson anyway ? Particularly if Suzie had one or could pack one one the fly from home ? Not that the previous Saturday was Jannelle's day to watch Stacy, but couple this with all we know about the empty house that Sunday morning; the cars parked, purses, smokes and so on. Mrs. McCall's basic published statement was to the effect that Stacy was out there in '...just her panties...' meaning she had nothing else with her (not even her medicine). With all these changes, in front of Jannelle's eyes the previous day, would Stacy not have to stop by her home to 'get ready' ?

Maybe, from Jannelle's perspective, Stacy's mom came by the Levitt house real early to pick her AND Suzie up...but Sherill too ? She was going to Branson ? Then given all the physical evidence in the house, they would leave that behind ? It appears real clear to me that, however casual, the plans were pretty firm on the trip to Branson. But, given what was left and what wasn't part of the equation, it doesn't add up.

For Stacy's part, and this was raised before, she might have left the house in a rush, grabbing, maybe Sherill's bathrobe or something. I believe it's been established there was a footprint of hers in the living room of the house facing out the front door.

Quote: Originally Posted by Luzer (c/p thread5 post#620)
A purse is a woman's home away from home. A purse is not intentionally left behind.

Originally Posted by former central time (c/p thread5 post#622)
Hummm...I think we're on to something there.

To me the purses, empty house, three cars and so on screams 9-1-1. But it took a score of family and friends most of Sunday to get around to it..

In the last few days refreshing my memory on this case I cannot easily equate especially Jannelle's actions/statements/behaviors with having zero meaning, unimportant, and irrelevant to the case.. As much as IMO I truly believe her to not be involved with the 3WM I still however cannot easily find a legitimate explanation as for why those initial behaviors/statements/actions were what they were that day/evening/night immediately following the abductions..

IMO her statements/behaviors/actions should have be easily transparent and benign in nature.. a very obvious meaning/reason/cause for why they were said or done that day by Janelle..

I can absolutely understand fully what we know,Or have been told about her very, first initial thoughts and actions of that early Sunday morning.. Last Janelle saw&heard her 2 BFF were headed to Suzies merely to grab a few hours of shut eye before they were all 3 to unite&head on to Branson to White Water Park.. So, as would be expected Janelle begins to attempt contact with the two girls around 7:30-8:00am in her calling the Delmar residence.. For me that makes perfectly logical sense.,

This action continues with her repeating to attempt contact via calling the Delmar home.. No answer., leave message.. Wait for returned phonecall.. When that did not occur Janelle obviously would again Rinse and Repeat.. This leaving several voice messages on the Delmar home answering machine.. I also believe that with each message left and recorded that Janelle's tone likely was to continue to escalate and increase with anger, irritation, and hurt.. IMO all still perfectly understandable and in no way suspicious that at that time Janelle would have much more likely been expressing anger/hurt rather than fear/worry.. She was increasingly more upset feeling they were intentionally ignoring, if not even having totally left her out that morning.. That IMO naturally creates anger/hurt rather than fear/worry of something actually being wrong with her friends as in danger or harmed..

**contd in post below**

 

[SmoothOperator]

**contd from above post**

...She and her bf Mike drive to the Delmar residence at some point after the repeated attempts at her making phone contact with Stacy/Suzie and each time frustratingly ending with no contact made.. IMO Janelle's having at some point mid morning deciding to physically go to the Delmar home is absolutely logical&not in any way suspicious(I do very much have unanswered inquiries as to exactly what/why Mike was involved in the events of that morning.. But that likely can be logically explained as well I am just personally not aware of those particular details)..

Mike&Janelle arrive at the Delmar residence.. Obviously the very first realization that IMO would cause an initial bodily response would be upon their pulling onto the street&visually seeing Sherrill, Suzie& yes even Stacy's vehicles ALL THREE PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY OF THE DELMAR HOME.. To me that would be the first tiny pang of suspicion.. They exit their vehicle&make their way to the front door which IMO they naturally believed they were about to actually be face to face with both Stacy/Suzie&were very anxious to hear what could possibly have been their reason for not Answering or returning Janelle's many calls.. It's said that upon nearing the front porch it became quickly evident of there being broken glass(which Janelle especially would've been mindful of due to the fact she was barefoot).. It's stated this was quickly remedied with Mike having swept up&discarded the broken glass from the porch(also noted is that tho the globe was broken, however the actual porch light still was on).. I assume they knock, no answer, see its unlocked&both without heaitation enter into the Delmar residence with IMO zero real worry or suspicion at that time..

IMO.. Even still at this point in time MO is that all of the events/statements/actions of the two are completely normal, understandable&in no way suspicious or the least bit imdicative of anything nefarious.. once inside the Delmar home IMO from what info we've been told it literally would have only been mere moments into being in the home that the pangs of suspicion would quickly begin to mount..IMO the 2 quickly looked around the small home assessing no one was there..after that was determined IMO the likely next action was by Janelle in her playing the answering machine msgs..I've early touched on this issue&my opinion being that the entire motive of her ever even choosing to press play on that machine was directly due to the fact that Janelle,herself had left numerous,messages just that morning in her attempts at contacting her friends..as I said earlier I feel it completely understandable that Janelle's initial feelings in making those calls was increasing anger/frustration/hurt rather than worry/fear..there for I'd not be surprised in the least that several of the messages left by her weren't exactly what you'd call polite or endearing ..much different IMO I wouldn't doubt that by the latter messages she left that morning they weren't downright rude in lashing out in hurt/anger..I absolutely believe this is the motive of why Janelle ever took the initiative to press play on an answering machine in another persons home..I Aldo believe its one&the same motive as to why Janelle took it upon herself to press the ERASE button(which is why/how that the obscene msg from Sat.ended up inadvertently being erased as well)...

So..still with all of this said and IMO clear understanding of how/why the actions/statements thus far came to be and IMO still very comfortable in moo that they are consistent and logical.. It is from this point forward that they begin to make less logical sense,there is no easily explainable reason or cause for certain actions/statements,and is exactly why I even have questions regarding Janelle and anything at all on the day of discovery..

Because what is baffling is that Janelle states as having no recollection of the obscene msg that played on the Levitt/Streeter answering machine..the msg that was among her own msgs she'd left&IMO likely regretted&therefore deleted..IMO by the time that Janelle was playing the msgs I cannot with any certainty whatsoever believe that Janelle could not have been in a somewhat worried state of mind...at the very least in a state of mind wgicg was definitely looking for some answers as to where her 3 friends were..thereby when especially that obscene msg played IMO ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN CELL WOULD HAVE IMMEDUATELY PERKED UP&TAKEN NOTICE OF THE WORDS/DEMEANORS EXPRESSED ON THE UNUSUAL PHONE MSG PLAYING....
So beginning at that moment marks the inconsistent and somewhat nonsensical actions/statements where Janelle is concerned..would all not agree that by this time that Janelle would be of a concerned state of mind??...IMO I find it virtually impossible for her not to have been feeling a very real stir of concern at the very very least..yet there's zero recall of not only the recorded/erased obscene msg,but equally strange&quite honestly IMO against all odds of being mere coincidence very soon thereafter hearing the obscene msg the actual home phone then rings&she actually takes it upon herself to answer it as well...and lo and behold it is none other than the actual obscene phone caller himself that just so happens to be in the other end of the line..my God what are the chances??__we know the obscene msg had been left days prior&it just so happens as she is standing there having just listened to that exact msg,'that the very next phone call is none other than he????.. I'd say pretty astounding coincidence..along with the fact that after the obscene call ends..the caller immediately calls back with the second obscene call literally back to back..if that isn't against all odds..well then the following certainly is every bit of that and more IMO...

Because according to Janelle she has zero recall of either of the obscene calls or msg??.really how can that be?.IMO it cannot be true..

And from there the actions/behaviors only become that much more strange and nonsensical .. Janelle and Mike spend an indefinite amount of time in the Delmar home that morning..listening and erasing messages.and going thru each of the three women's purses..those we know for certain that they did while in the home..

So, how is it that Janelle upon leaving the Delmar residence says that she thought the three were in Branson at the water park..huh??..47 year old Sherill, too??..so how did Janelle figure they got to Branson and what did she conclude in her mind for all three of their purses, keys, cars to have been at the Delmar home?? ..that doesn't even begin to jive and I don't care if Janelle wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed NO ONE WOULD HAVE LEFT THAT HOME WITH THE BELIEF THESE THREE WOMEN WERE ALL AT A WATERPARK!

Yet Janelle does and in fact her and Mike actually chose to go and spend a good majority of the St of that Sunday at a nearby watepark.. but we know when Janelle late returns to the Delmar home she is over come with emotion and is hysterical outside the home...why?

I know also that Janis McCall became aware that Stacy did not spend the night at Janelle's home as was expected.when did Janis learn this and by whom?.and what time was it that Janis McCall went to the Delmar home with the intent to teach Stacy a lesson by taking her car home..what time was this and who entered the Delmar home with Janis at that time?

I certainly by no means whatsoever believe there were 18 friends/family in the Delmar home..I do however believe it entirely possible that the number 18 is the number of different prints/evidence of 18 different individuals..as far as I know the only real "testing" done was LDT and nothing else forensically whatsoever from any individuals to do a thorough comparison if for no other reason than to rule out..

All jmo..

 

[monkeymann]

It was my understanding, based on a couple of the early news accounts that the phone call came in WHILE Janelle and Mike were in the house. My understanding was that Janelle answered the phone when it randomly rang, in the short time they had been in the house, she answered it, and it was the obscene caller. She hung up on him, he imeadiately called back, and this time instead of answering it, Janelle let it go to the answering machine.

Ms. McCall stated that there was a message on the answering machine, from a man that was of a vulgar nature, but that she couldn't remember what the man had said, because the answering machine messages accidently got erased.
I found it strange that she couldn't remember what the man had said though. I think she DOES know what the man said, (Janelle and Ms. McCall) but its possible that LE have told them not to talk about the details of the phone call. If not though, for me anyway, I can't understand why someone WOULDN'T REMEMBER the details of a phone call like that.

I can't remember if I ever saw anywhere that stated who had actually erased the messages.
I know that a least two of the early stories, as well as in some of the subsequent stories that were written, it has Janelle ANSWERING the phone and receiving the obscene phone call PERSONALLY, while she and Mike were in the house.

 

[Kathee]

As a helpful reference, I'm going to post some threads from an earlier discussion referring to possible suspects:

From this forum, thread 5, page 10, post #238:

Kemo:
I came up with the following list. These are names that have come up in various discussions. I have no idea if they include the "12".

1) Gerald Carnahan: DOB 1958 Abducted, raped murdered and concealed body of Jackie Johns in Ozark Mo in 1985. No other known connection.
2) Francis Robb: DOB ? killed three people in early 1990 And disposed of their bodies. This was apparently not sex related. He was convicted and died in prison.
3) Ricky Evans: DOB ? Close friend of Robb who might have been involved in the triple murder. Later convicted of a different double murder (non-sexual) and disposing of bodies by feeding to hogs on his farm.
4) Darrel Felton: DOB ? Friend of Evans, grandson of Robb. Was witness against Evans.
All three above were meth using low-lifes who lived in the rural area east
of Springfield.
5) Melvin Cheney: DOB (early 1960's) convicted of 1/19/91 abduction/rape/murder/ with body disposal of Trudie Davis who was abducted from convenience store where she worked. There are two similar crimes in the general area (about an hour north of Springfield) that are unsolved that he is suspected of.
6) Jesse Rush: DOB 1976 (brother of Melvin) convicted, with Melvin of the Trudie Davis caper. His statement implicated two other men who were never charged (Greg Cheevers and a Marshall Cheevers) and, in a letter to another inmate, made references to having killed several other women Jesse and Melvin were living in Camden county Mo
7) Robert Cox DOB 1960 History of Rape/murder in Fl+ other sex and property crimes. Serving long sentence in Texas. Made statements suggesting he knew something of murder but nothing solid. No known ties to women
8) Stephen Eugene Garrison: DOB ? Raped a student in Springfield in 1993 serving 40 year sentence . He apparently claimed bodies were buried on Francis Robb's farm. No know connection to women.
9) Mike Kovacs:, DOB 1975 Suzie's former boyfriend. Associated with of the
Graverobbers. Supposedly had rock solid alibi
10) Dustin Recla: Graverobber
11) Michael Clay: Graverobber
12) Joseph Riedel: Graverobber All three of the Graverobber have pretty well convinced LE they were not involved. Statements from LE claim they were cleared but there are reports that some involved in the investigation feel they should be investigated further.
13) 36-year-old man from Springfield (Grand Jury three)
14) 28-year-old man from Kansas(Grand Jury three)
15) 28-year-old man who was originally from Cedar County, Mo(Grand Jury three) the Grand Jury Three were recent paroles fm the Kansas system who arrived in Springfield a month before the abduction. As the Grand Jury is conducted in secret, it is not know what, if any connection they had to the crime but no indictment was issued.
16) Bart Streeter: DOB 1965 Brother of Suzie, Long history of Substance abuse and minor crimes. Generally considered to have been leared during initial investigation.
17) Chris Revak DOB 1973 Committed suicide after arrest for sex related murder in Ava Mo. Is a strong suspect in two other similar murders, Internet rumors place him in Springfield area in 1992 but LE has played down any interest in him

and then the following post:
post #239:
Missouri Mule:
That's a pretty complete list. I can tell you that there is one duplicate on there if you look closely. I also do not believe the perps who murdered Trudy Darby were involved. And Revak wasn't on anyone's radar until he turned up dead in jail from a suicide.
I would add to the list any known associates or related people to the elder Francis Robb as well, in particular two other people.

and then a following post:
Hmmmwhoknows:
Add Ricky Eugene Dykes and Teddy Gale Roberts and Mike Hiram Henson to that list.

I thought this might be helpful to folks as a reference to who's who and their possible connection in the 3MW case.

The murder charges in the case you refer to that was connected to Evans and his wife were dropped after the witness refused to testify for the state.

 

[Kathee]

It was my understanding, based on a couple of the early news accounts that the phone call came in WHILE Janelle and Mike were in the house. My understanding was that Janelle answered the phone when it randomly rang, in the short time they had been in the house, she answered it, and it was the obscene caller. She hung up on him, he imeadiately called back, and this time instead of answering it, Janelle let it go to the answering machine.

Ms. McCall stated that there was a message on the answering machine, from a man that was of a vulgar nature, but that she couldn't remember what the man had said, because the answering machine messages accidently got erased.
I found it strange that she couldn't remember what the man had said though. I think she DOES know what the man said, (Janelle and Ms. McCall) but its possible that LE have told them not to talk about the details of the phone call. If not though, for me anyway, I can't understand why someone WOULDN'T REMEMBER the details of a phone call like that.

I can't remember if I ever saw anywhere that stated who had actually erased the messages.
I know that a least two of the early stories, as well as in some of the subsequent stories that were written, it has Janelle ANSWERING the phone and receiving the obscene phone call PERSONALLY, while she and Mike were in the house.

Great post, MM!

 

[monkeymann]

I wanted to add something to this that stood out to me as well.

In an interview with Det. Mark Webb I think it was, I think it was on the Disappeared Video that came out awhile back, Det. Webb was talking about the alibis of a couple of the Grave Robber perps, he didn't mention which ones he was referring to, but it sounded like it was at least two of them. He very clearly stated that, "Their Alibi's could not be completely confirmed or denied".

To me, that is a pretty clear indication that at least two of the grave robbers were never completely ruled out as suspects......Don't you think?????

10) Dustin Recla: Graverobber
11) Michael Clay: Graverobber
12) Joseph Riedel: Graverobber All three of the Graverobber have pretty well convinced LE they were not involved. Statements from LE claim they were cleared but there are reports that some involved in the investigation feel they should be investigated further.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I wanted to add something to this that stood out to me as well.

In an interview with Det. Mark Webb I think it was, I think it was on the Disappeared Video that came out awhile back, Det. Webb was talking about the alibis of a couple of the Grave Robber perps, he didn't mention which ones he was referring to, but it sounded like it was at least two of them. He very clearly stated that, "Their Alibi's could not be completely confirmed or denied".

To me, that is a pretty clear indication that at least two of the grave robbers were never completely ruled out as suspects......Don't you think?????

10) Dustin Recla: Graverobber
11) Michael Clay: Graverobber
12) Joseph Riedel: Graverobber All three of the Graverobber have pretty well convinced LE they were not involved. Statements from LE claim they were cleared but there are reports that some involved in the investigation feel they should be investigated further.

This is the crux of the whole problem from the beginning. As I recall it was the police chief himself who cleared these guys and this didn't sit well with the regular detectives. And I believe it is correct to say that at least two of the primary detectives believed the investigation should have moved in that direction only to be dissuaded and eventually they threw in the towel. One could speculate that there was pressure that came to bear on the case from some quarter and it prevented this case from having a proper investigation.

This says much: "Their Alibi's could not be completely confirmed or denied".

Of some interest is that Recla had a high priced lawyer and Clay had a public defender. Not sure what this means exactly but it may be that it was feared he would be the weak link if a bigger problem was potentially going to be exposed.

So far as I know the person who allegedly failed the polygraph has never been revealed. And Cox, I believe, refused to take one.

 

[monkeymann]

This is the crux of the whole problem from the beginning. As I recall it was the police chief himself who cleared these guys and this didn't sit well with the regular detectives. And I believe it is correct to say that at least two of the primary detectives believed the investigation should have moved in that direction only to be dissuaded and eventually they threw in the towel. One could speculate that there was pressure that came to bear on the case from some quarter and it prevented this case from having a proper investigation.

This says much: "Their Alibi's could not be completely confirmed or denied".

Of some interest is that Recla had a high priced lawyer and Clay had a public defender. Not sure what this means exactly but it may be that it was feared he would be the weak link if a bigger problem was potentially going to be exposed.

So far as I know the person who allegedly failed the polygraph has never been revealed. And Cox, I believe, refused to take one.

Anytime you hear police make the public statement, "Can't be confirmed or denyed", especially when it comes to them commenting on weather or not someone is a suspect, I've always felt that that is their way of answering the question with out technically coming out and saying "Yes, this person is considered a suspect". Generally the "Yes, this person is considered a suspect" is a statement they make publically AFTER they arrest someone.

So...For Det. Webb to make that statement, here and now 20yrs later, I feel comfortable in thinking that police still have one or more of the Grave Robbers on the list of possible suspects.

 

[monkeymann]

I have a couple questions for everyone:

Steve Garrison lead police to a farm east of Springfield back in the early/mid 90's I think it was. At some point after had been arrested for the Rape crime that he's currently incarcerated for.

My understanding of this incident was that Steve Garrison told police that he knew what happened to the 3MW and where they were buried. They way I understood it, he wanted to try and exchange that information in the form of a plea bargan for a lighter sentence on the Rape charge.

However, as the story goes, after Steve Garrison lead them to the farm east of Springfield, he clammed up and wouldn't reveal the exact location on the large farm property he lead them to, when one of the Detectives supposidly made a reference to the possibility that he could/would be charged as an assessory if the bodys were located. Something to that effect.

Anyway, my question is:

Does anyone know the finer points of this story, in a little more detail.

And:

Does anyone think that Steve Garrison actually lead police to the farm where the 3MW were buried? Do you think Steve Garrison actually knew anything about the 3MW crime, or was he just BS'n the police.

I mean, I will say this....they apparently took what ever he told them seriously enough to go out and conduct a search of the property that included a large law enforcement presence, as well as, the use of a backhoe. So in my opinion, Steve Garrison must have told police something that really had to have convinced them that he actually knew something.....or I really feel that they wouldn't have conducted the scale of the search that they did at the property that Steve Garrsion supposidly lead them to.

What do you all think about this?

 

[Kathee]

I wanted to add something to this that stood out to me as well.

In an interview with Det. Mark Webb I think it was, I think it was on the Disappeared Video that came out awhile back, Det. Webb was talking about the alibis of a couple of the Grave Robber perps, he didn't mention which ones he was referring to, but it sounded like it was at least two of them. He very clearly stated that, "Their Alibi's could not be completely confirmed or denied".

To me, that is a pretty clear indication that at least two of the grave robbers were never completely ruled out as suspects......Don't you think?????

10) Dustin Recla: Graverobber
11) Michael Clay: Graverobber
12) Joseph Riedel: Graverobber All three of the Graverobber have pretty well convinced LE they were not involved. Statements from LE claim they were cleared but there are reports that some involved in the investigation feel they should be investigated further.

That was actually Detective Allen Neal who said their stories couldn't be corroborated or denied.

I was told by several investigators that DR, MC and JR were cleared by the former SPD chief after he met with them for lunch.

At this point, I just don't think MC had anything to do with it.

I was told recently by one of the investigators on the case that, "Everyone who was ever interviewed is still a suspect."

I have a lot of respect for most of the investigators on this case. That being said, I am upset with them that after repeated phone calls, and a promised meeting over 6 weeks ago, to bring in someone that may have vital information about the case I still have not heard back from them.

Guess that goes back to me being a pain in their *advertiser censored*! Oh well....I will continue to be a pain in their asses as I continue to fight for justice for our girls!

 

[Missouri Mule]

That was actually Detective Allen Neal who said their stories couldn't be corroborated or denied.

I was told by several investigators that DR, MC and JR were cleared by the former SPD chief after he met with them for lunch.

At this point, I just don't think MC had anything to do with it.

I was told recently by one of the investigators on the case that, "Everyone who was ever interviewed is still a suspect."

I have a lot of respect for most of the investigators on this case. That being said, I am upset with them that after repeated phone calls, and a promised meeting over 6 weeks ago, to bring in someone that may have vital information about the case I still have not heard back from them.

Guess that goes back to me being a pain in their *advertiser censored*! Oh well....I will continue to be a pain in their asses as I continue to fight for justice for our girls!

I believe it is also correct to say that a former high ranking detective (perhaps two) didn't want to let loose of the grave robbers as viable suspects.

What about those two posters on the other forum? Are the police listening to them? I'm not asking for their names but have they been interviewed yet and if not, why not? You imply one of them has not even to this date been interviewed. Have you talked to the MSHP about this yet?

Why should we believe that the former chief made anything but a horribly misplaced judgment call on the grave robbers? From what I gather this didn't sit well with the rank and file detectives who wanted to follow normal police protocol.

 

[SmoothOperator]

It was my understanding, based on a couple of the early news accounts that the phone call came in WHILE Janelle and Mike were in the house. My understanding was that Janelle answered the phone when it randomly rang, in the short time they had been in the house, she answered it, and it was the obscene caller. She hung up on him, he imeadiately called back, and this time instead of answering it, Janelle let it go to the answering machine.
*
Ms. McCall stated that there was a message on the answering machine, from a man that was of a vulgar nature, but that she couldn't remember what the man had said, because the answering machine messages accidently got erased.
I found it strange that she couldn't remember what the man had said though. I think she DOES know what the man said, (Janelle and Ms. McCall) but its possible that LE have told them not to talk about the details of the phone call. If not though, for me anyway, I can't understand why someone WOULDN'T REMEMBER the details of a phone call like that.
*
I can't remember if I ever saw anywhere that stated who had actually erased the messages.
I know that a least two of the early stories, as well as in some of the subsequent stories that were written, it has Janelle ANSWERING the phone and receiving the obscene phone call PERSONALLY, while she and Mike were in the house.

Thanks for this further clarification about the phonecalls(I suppose if we're going to specifically discuss the calls/msgs from here out we should move to that thread..lol.. But I'll reply here for now).

So Now, we have a recorded message on the machine that was left by the obscene caller that very day of Sunday, June 7.. This due to the fact that Janelle answered the first of the two obscene calls, hung up, the caller made the second of the two calls that was not answered therefor he left an obscene/vulgar MSG on the machine.. So, what about the obscene message from Saturday???.. Was that not true?? Was there only the one vulgar MSG that was left Sunday, June 7 while Mike/Janelle were in the Delmar home???.. Is it that MSG that was earlier to have said it was left on Saturady????

Or is what I stated originally in my post ALL OF IT ACCURATE as far as Mike/Janelle having entered the Delmar home the afternoon of*Sunday, June 7th *While inside the home Janelle pressed play on the answering machine.. And also whether purposefully or not erased all the msgs on the machine.. One of those messages being an obscene/vulgar message that had actually been left on the machine the day prior, Saturday, June 6.. <---- ARE ALL OF THESE DETAILS CORRECT???..

If so, is from that point on where the remainder of details you shared occur???.. As in AFTER THE FACT of Janelle playing and erasing the answering machine messages(INCLUDING A VULGAR/OBSCENE MSG that was LEFT ON SATURDAY, JUNE 6).. And then the home phone rang and Janelle answered it.. It was an obscene phone call to which she hung up on.. Immediately after hanging up the obscene caller calls right back and Janelle does NOT answer the second call, but rather allows the answering machine to pick up.. To which a second, obscene/vulgar message was left on the machine..<--- ARE THESE DETAILS CORRECT AND ARE IN THE CORRECT SEQUENCE(if not would u mind putting them in the correct sequence.. TIA..

If all of these details are correct it means that there were actually 2 obscene/vulgar messages(that we know of) that were recorded on the Delmar residence answering machine??.. Am i understanding that correctly??..One that was supposedly left at some point prior to the women's disappearance(Saturday, June 6).. And one that was actually left while Janelle/Mike were in the Delmar residence on the afternoon of Sunday, June 7(obviously after the women's disappearance)..

I also have questions in now hearing that Janis McCall was also able to hear ATLEAST one of the obscene/vulgar answering machine messages.. This obviously means that the messages were again listened to later in the evening of June 7 when Janis mcCall was present in the Delmar home.. Or are you saying that it was just the one instance of listening to the phone messages and that was later in the evening of June 7 when both Janis McCall and Janelle Kirby were in the Delmar residence??.

That's where I really am confusing myself and honestly believe that it's actually very very simple and the wording and clarification is actually not at all discombobulated as it certainly is appearing to be in my attempting to piece it all back together as a whole(ie. Janelle/Mike at the Delmar residence around 12:30 played/erased msgs(including obscene MSG from Sat,6/6).. Phone rang while they were in the home, Janelle answers and it's obscene call, hangs up, obscene caller immediately calls back, Janelle does NOT answer so machine records obscene MSG(this making the second recorded obscene msg)..At some point later Sunday evening when both Janelle and Janis McCall are at the home Janis has a chance to hear ATLEAST the obscene MSG that'd been left earlier that same day).. Not certain about if/when the second obscene MSG was actually erased as well..

:crazy:.. So, whoever has a moment to untangle me from the discombobulated mess of details concerning phones, msgs, people, and times..:crazy: .. I'd be ever so very grateful*

**and I just wanted to say that I by no means whatsoever am under the impression that what I am discussing is in any way new info.. I am very well aware that any subject that I broach re:3MW will have long since already been sleuthed, evaluated, up one side&down the other.. A thousand times over.. I know that and I've followed along for many years on this case and know and have seen the hard work&dedication that so many have put into this case.. I just wanted to be clear that I'm not attempting to jump in here and it seem as tho I'm under the guise of these details being new, unknown, and not already combed over with a fine tooth comb..

Moo is that what can it possibly hurt to discuss the events, evidence, etc again??.. Moo it can't and by some grand miracle maybe just maybe one day someone will come upon information or the one detail needed in order to lead to the break that so very many people have been waiting 20long years for already.. IMO that day has got to come one of these days.. Why not today??.. It's as just a good of a day as any..:sigh:

It's frustrating to think about just how long this case has been without resolve..

All jmo, tho!

 

[Missouri Mule]

Thanks for this further clarification about the phonecalls(I suppose if we're going to specifically discuss the calls/msgs from here out we should move to that thread..lol.. But I'll reply here for now).

So Now, we have a recorded message on the machine that was left by the obscene caller that very day of Sunday, June 7.. This due to the fact that Janelle answered the first of the two obscene calls, hung up, the caller made the second of the two calls that was not answered therefor he left an obscene/vulgar MSG on the machine.. So, what about the obscene message from Saturday???.. Was that not true?? Was there only the one vulgar MSG that was left Sunday, June 7 while Mike/Janelle were in the Delmar home???.. Is it that MSG that was earlier to have said it was left on Saturady????

Or is what I stated originally in my post ALL OF IT ACCURATE as far as Mike/Janelle having entered the Delmar home the afternoon of*Sunday, June 7th *While inside the home Janelle pressed play on the answering machine.. And also whether purposefully or not erased all the msgs on the machine.. One of those messages being an obscene/vulgar message that had actually been left on the machine the day prior, Saturday, June 6.. <---- ARE ALL OF THESE DETAILS CORRECT???..

If so, is from that point on where the remainder of details you shared occur???.. As in AFTER THE FACT of Janelle playing and erasing the answering machine messages(INCLUDING A VULGAR/OBSCENE MSG that was LEFT ON SATURDAY, JUNE 6).. And then the home phone rang and Janelle answered it.. It was an obscene phone call to which she hung up on.. Immediately after hanging up the obscene caller calls right back and Janelle does NOT answer the second call, but rather allows the answering machine to pick up.. To which a second, obscene/vulgar message was left on the machine..<--- ARE THESE DETAILS CORRECT AND ARE IN THE CORRECT SEQUENCE(if not would u mind putting them in the correct sequence.. TIA..

If all of these details are correct it means that there were actually 2 obscene/vulgar messages(that we know of) that were recorded on the Delmar residence answering machine??.. Am i understanding that correctly??..One that was supposedly left at some point prior to the women's disappearance(Saturday, June 6).. And one that was actually left while Janelle/Mike were in the Delmar residence on the afternoon of Sunday, June 7(obviously after the women's disappearance)..

I also have questions in now hearing that Janis McCall was also able to hear ATLEAST one of the obscene/vulgar answering machine messages.. This obviously means that the messages were again listened to later in the evening of June 7 when Janis mcCall was present in the Delmar home.. Or are you saying that it was just the one instance of listening to the phone messages and that was later in the evening of June 7 when both Janis McCall and Janelle Kirby were in the Delmar residence??.

That's where I really am confusing myself and honestly believe that it's actually very very simple and the wording and clarification is actually not at all discombobulated as it certainly is appearing to be in my attempting to piece it all back together as a whole(ie. Janelle/Mike at the Delmar residence around 12:30 played/erased msgs(including obscene MSG from Sat,6/6).. Phone rang while they were in the home, Janelle answers and it's obscene call, hangs up, obscene caller immediately calls back, Janelle does NOT answer so machine records obscene MSG(this making the second recorded obscene msg)..At some point later Sunday evening when both Janelle and Janis McCall are at the home Janis has a chance to hear ATLEAST the obscene MSG that'd been left earlier that same day).. Not certain about if/when the second obscene MSG was actually erased as well..

:crazy:.. So, whoever has a moment to untangle me from the discombobulated mess of details concerning phones, msgs, people, and times..:crazy: .. I'd be ever so very grateful*

**and I just wanted to say that I by no means whatsoever am under the impression that what I am discussing is in any way new info.. I am very well aware that any subject that I broach re:3MW will have long since already been sleuthed, evaluated, up one side&down the other.. A thousand times over.. I know that and I've followed along for many years on this case and know and have seen the hard work&dedication that so many have put into this case.. I just wanted to be clear that I'm not attempting to jump in here and it seem as tho I'm under the guise of these details being new, unknown, and not already combed over with a fine tooth comb..

Moo is that what can it possibly hurt to discuss the events, evidence, etc again??.. Moo it can't and by some grand miracle maybe just maybe one day someone will come upon information or the one detail needed in order to lead to the break that so very many people have been waiting 20long years for already.. IMO that day has got to come one of these days.. Why not today??.. It's as just a good of a day as any..:sigh:

It's frustrating to think about just how long this case has been without resolve..

All jmo, tho!

Yes, this is very confusing to say the least. I believe the "disappeared" video has this account where Mrs. McCall says something to this effect.

What I don't understand AT ALL is why the police didn't go over the matter of the tape in excruciating detail at the very outset (or did they?) and we are left to wonder exactly who they still have on their suspect list. We do know, from an erased TV interview, that Jannelle was extremely irked at having repeated questions to her by numerous detectives when she complained that she wondered if they talked to one another since they kept asking her the same questions.

And another thing which irks me is when people such as ourselves ask these questions is why some others seem so willing to gloss over such things as unimportant or inappropriate to ask. You can probably figure out where I am going with this but this has always been a concern. Stated differently, in the earlier days of this investigation, everyone's stories should have been EXACTLY the same and the timelines also meshed correctly. One can't but help wondering what kind of investigation this really was.

 

[former central time]

**and I just wanted to say that I by no means whatsoever am under the impression that what I am discussing is in any way new info.. I am very well aware that any subject that I broach re:3MW will have long since already been sleuthed, evaluated, up one side&down the other.. A thousand times over.. I know that and I've followed along for many years on this case and know and have seen the hard work&dedication that so many have put into this case.. I just wanted to be clear that I'm not attempting to jump in here and it seem as tho I'm under the guise of these details being new, unknown, and not already combed over with a fine tooth comb..

Moo is that what can it possibly hurt to discuss the events, evidence, etc again??.. Moo it can't and by some grand miracle maybe just maybe one day someone will come upon information or the one detail needed in order to lead to the break that so very many people have been waiting 20long years for already.. IMO that day has got to come one of these days.. Why not today??.. It's as just a good of a day as any..:sigh:

It's frustrating to think about just how long this case has been without resolve..

All jmo, tho!

Smooth...No need to apologize for ‘backtracking’ through what has been hashed over umteen times. For if nothing else, folks like you, and to some degree me (somewhat of a newerBee) give a flavor of a ‘reasonable person standard,’ and ‘reasonable doubt’ which a case like this, resting so heavily on ‘he said/she said/they said,’ requires. Those extremely familiar with the case, while providing an excellent source of facts and knowledge can and may lack some sensitivities that may matter someday.

Without hijacking this tread, just to be clear, since I was quoted several times earlier, I will have to agree to disagree with some, in that, the actions of Jennelle and her boyfriend upon discovery of the vacant house as odd. She calls all morning to no answer, gets to the house 11 AM/12 noon (accounts vary in reporting), house unlocked, three cars parked outside, three purses (smokes), don’t remember if she sees Stacy’s shorts or not, but later leaves for the waterpark. As the kids say, WTF. It doesn’t pass my smell test. The creepy calls just adds to my bewilderment.

To be clear and fair, I will concede that people handle things differently and I am NOT accusing Mike and Jennelle of anything criminal or foul, perhaps just bad judgment. There may be a logical explanation for this and maybe one day it will be aired in court. But also, it could be used by one side to discredit Jennelle as a witness or failing the ‘reasonable person standard,’ and I’m confident there are plenty attorneys up to the task in criminal law.

What sprung this board alive recently was the reexamination of the physical evidence to outside investigators. While I’m told not to get ‘hopes up’ it could do wonders. Some blade of hair in Sherill’s blanket matches a ‘person of interest’/suspect or whatnot, would go a looooong way to turning much of the rest of this story into just scenery.

 

[monkeymann]

I posted this on Topix and wanted to share this with everyone here too.

This is a post from a long time ago by a poster named Hurricane. I have always regarded Hurricane as having a sincere interest in solving this case, and have never known this poster to "Play Games".
Point being Everyone Needs To Read This:
Garrison told police a friend had confessed to killing the three women during a drunken party. He told police information unknown to the public that led investigators to serve three search warrants at two sites in western Webster County; that they would find the women&#8217;s bodies and clues about their abduction and deaths.He also said a moss green van believed used to take the women would be found about 12 miles away, south of Fordland.
The property searched was the same site where in 1990 LE searched for two of three missing Springfieldians. Property owner Francis Lee Robb Sr. pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder in a case authorities said at the time they believed involve a drug deal gone awry.
Garrison was believed enough that a gag order concerning the three search warrants was issued by a judge.&#8220;&#8230;certain aspects of the information we received fit with other (private) aspects of the case,&#8221; Springfield Police Capt. Todd Whitson said. Whitson said the gag order was rare, but he could not say why it was issued,&#8220;other than to say there is such an order, and it governs the operation and everything related to the operation out here.&#8221; Added Webster County Sheriff C.E. Wells:&#8220;We can&#8217;t tell you anything about it until the order&#8217;s lifted.&#8221;
Info comes from the News-Leader, Aug. 29 & 31, 1993.

 

[monkeymann]

Also this is one from a long time back from Olddog, another poster of whom I've always felt had a sincere interest in this case and wasn't playing games:

"Garrison was said to have told LE the girls were dumped in an old well"

Now if Garrison did indeed tell them that, and they subsequently searched the farm of Francis Robb Sr., and according the the account posted by Hurricane in which Garrison had supposidly given police "Private" information that was only known by them, which was what compelled them to obtain the search warrants and search the farm......You'd think there would have to be something of merit to Garrisons story that lead police to Francis Robb Sr.'s farm.

Also, I want to note too: Francis Robb Sr.'s 1st Degree Murder trial, which had been moved from Springfield, to Benton County on a change of venue appeal, was scheduled to began June 1, 1992.

Doesn't that just make you think Hummmmmm. Garrison told police the bodys were on Francis Robb Sr's Farm, Garrison supposidly had a connection to the Grave Robbers, Francis Robb, Sr.'s is awaiting charges for 1st Degree Murder of which the trial is scheduled to begain June 1, 1992, was that just a coincidence, or did Francis Robb Sr have other things going on that were connected to someone who was connected to Sherrill or Susie, and Susies statement to police put enough parinoia into Robb, or others that Susie may have ratted their operation out too, and there for she had to be taken care of.

Seems like a plausable theory of which most of the connections seem to be valid........