The State Rests in the State v Jodi Arias: break in trial until 28 January 2013 #10

[txbluesman]

Respectfully snipped for space.

So if she fired the gun with her left hand and held the camera in her right, that would make it more likely the gun would jam, than if she fired using both hands?

And, we also know she told the detective that the ninja's gun jammed.

How does she know that happens in real life? Maybe she's seen it?

 

[bobloblaw]

Regarding the sequence once again:

The only way I can make sense of the totality of the wounds is if the ME is off on his opinion that the gunshot wound would have immediately rendered Travis unconscious and unable to defend himself. Even the ME says he does not have complete information because he can't track the bullet through the brain. There's no testimony about what functions are controlled in that part of the brain or why it would necessarily have immediately incapacitated Travis completely.

The other factors that support the gunshot being first are:

1. The shot was downward traveling from Travis' right brow down to his left cheek from at least 2-3 feet away. (ME testimony and pics). This was exactly the relative positions of Travis and Jodi in the last "alive" picture of Travis in the shower 44 seconds before the camera dropped.

2. At no time after the throat wound would Travis have been in a sitting up position that could have led to the path of the projectile from right brow to left cheek unless Jodi was laying on the floor shooting him...an outlandish scenario.

3. The shot could not have been made in the position Travis was found in the shower, so if he was shot after death in the bathroom/shower, Jodi would have had to again reposition his body in the shower after she shot him.

4. Jodi brought the gun with her and all the evidence indicates that she went with the intention of shooting Travis. Reason and logic say that shooting him would have been her first attempt to kill him. In one of her interviews she said that if she killed Travis she would have kept shooting him til he was dead -- and I think that was her intention, but the gun jammed and she had to resort to other "less humane" means. She worked the gun jam into her story during her 48 Hours interview, claiming the gun man tried to shoot her but the gun jammed so she could escape. IMO she was drawing on her actual experiences and observations when coming up with these stories so as to try to make them believable.

5. ME testified that the trajectory of the bullet could have caused blood to enter mouth and nose. This fits the blood spray and patterns around the sink which cannot really be explained any other way -- stabbing in the heart would not cause that kind of spray and would not cause blood in mouth and nose. Although I do think there was some testimony that the patterns could have been caused by Travis being stabbed while he was positioned at the sink.

6. Finally, although we cannot take any of Jodi's statements as the truth, I believe that her account of the intruders was her way to telling pretty accurately what happened to Travis. She wanted to make it believable so she gave an account that she actually believed could have happened -- i.e. Travis being shot and still surviving and able to lift himself up on all fours. To make it as believable as possible, I think she relied on what she actually observed as reality ..Travis was shot and was badly injured but did not die or lose consciousness. She left out the stabbing to the heart and throat slice because she wanted to claim he was still alive when she left.

The only thing that was holding me back from believing in this sequence was the ME's testimony. But there are so many other factors that support him being shot first, and after listening to the ME testimony again, it's not as conclusive as I thought. In fact, he first says that the head would would have "likely" been incapacitating "rapidly" (not immediately). So I conclude that the ME made a mistake with his opinion about the sequence. The fact that the shell casing had no blood does not bother me at all -- Jodi poured water over stuff, and it could have been kicked around or cleared from the gun after the fact.

How do you explain his defensive wounds, cuts to his hands and arms if he was shot first? ME testified that he would not have use of his arms if he was shot in the head.

 

[Sulamith]

And I think I may be talked into the gunshot as first.

I am starting to think that way also. After listening to the ME's testimony, where he stated the gunshot came last I belived him. Then I read from a poster here that MEs have been known to be wrong. Yikes!

 

[Jax49]

Is is possible he was shot between the two 'seated' shower pics?

 

[minor4th]

How do you explain his defensive wounds, cuts to his hands and arms if he was shot first? ME testified that he would not have use of his arms if he was shot in the head.

Like I said, I think the ME miscalculated in his opinion that the head wound would have necessarily immediately incapacitated Travis completely.

 

[popsicle]

Thats exactly the point I was trying to make the other day about the media (and others) calling them sex pics. They most certainly are not sex pics, they are nude pics.

I use the term sex pictures because they are sexual poses.

 

[BD1]

The only other thing that bothers me about stab vs gunshot along with the abilities of a man shot in the head (could they crawl? could they put their arms up to protect themselves? etc) is the lack of bleeding at the gun shot wound.

 

[LambChop]

And, we also know she told the detective that the ninja's gun jammed.

How does she know that happens in real life? Maybe she's seen it?

Regardless of the sequence I don't think any of us would argue the gun probably jammed because I do not think she was finished with him with just one shot. The stabbings confirm that. And I think now it is highly possible he might have been shot first. Only Jodi knows for sure what happened and once her trial is over she will probably spill the beans......along with her "I was a victim of domestic abuse" story. It's coming for sure. jmo

 

[kscornfed]

I am starting to think that way also. After listening to the ME's testimony, where he stated the gunshot came last I belived him. Then I read from a poster here that MEs have been known to be wrong. Yikes!

we had an ME in houston who made some horrible mistakes. in the diane wanstrath case, he ruled she killed her baby, her husband and then herself and the 'gun was removed by persons unknown.' HA!

he also ruled her mother who had been found previous to these deaths, dead in her bathtub, with panty hose around her neck had DONE IT HERSELF!!!!!!

turned out to be diane's adoptive brother who had ALL of them killed for insurance money.

 

[jevipo74]

I use the term sex pictures because they are sexual poses.

How about we call them sexually explicit?

 

[bobloblaw]

Like I said, I think the ME miscalculated in his opinion that the head wound would have necessarily immediately incapacitated Travis completely.

Thats quite a stretch.

 

[bobloblaw]

How about we call them sexually explicit?

How about we call them what they are? Nude photos.

 

[kscornfed]

Regardless of the sequence I don't think any of us would argue the gun probably jammed because I do not think she was finished with him with just one shot. The stabbings confirm that. And I think now it is highly possible he might have been shot first. Only Jodi knows for sure what happened and once her trial is over she will probably spill the beans......along with her "I was a victim of domestic abuse" story. It's coming for sure. jmo

she even told flores she would've shot him 'continuously' until he was dead.

maybe when the gun jammed, he was down but not dead and she ran to get the knife, came back, found him stumbling out of the shower and started stabbing him.

 

[minor4th]

Thats quite a stretch.

I somewhat agree, which is why it has taken me a while to come around to my conclusion. But considering the totality of the evidence so far, I can't fathom any other scenario.

 

[bobloblaw]

she even told flores she would've shot him 'continuously' until he was dead.

maybe when the gun jammed, he was down but not dead and she ran to get the knife, came back, found him stumbling out of the shower and started stabbing him.

So now we are believing what she says? All I know is that the only time she lies is when her lips move.:great:

 

[lil_buddy]

I'm a brand new member and am very interested in this case.
I cannot find any info about JA predating her involvement with TA (2006).
Why is that?
I'm confused about where she lived and where she was employed/got money.
I am curious to know if her new Mormon friends like Udy knew she was a HS dropout.
Why didn't the prosecutor ask Udy about that (to show how little she knew about JA)?
Did JA actually EVER make money with Pre-paid legal?
Does anyone have grave misgivings about JA's family ('cause I do)?

PS - Pre-paid legal seems to be like a pyramid scheme like Amway.

 

[bobloblaw]

I somewhat agree, which is why it has taken me a while to come around to my conclusion. But considering the totality of the evidence so far, I can't fathom any other scenario.

She "suckered" him with a stab wound to the heart area, he goes down, she stabs his back several times while he crawls out of the bathroom, she approaches him in hallway on all fours and slits his throat, drags him back the bathroom, puts him in shower and shoots him minutes later when she hears gurgling sound as gases escape his dead body.

 

[minor4th]

The only other thing that bothers me about stab vs gunshot along with the abilities of a man shot in the head (could they crawl? could they put their arms up to protect themselves? etc) is the lack of bleeding at the gun shot wound.

Listen to the medical examiner's testimony again. He did not say there was no bleeding at the wound -- he said he was not able to see hemorrhaging or examine the brain so the only thing he knew was that a bullet passed through the brain. When prompted by the prosecution he said an absence of hemorrhaging "could" indicate that the wound came after death, but it was more an abstract question and not related to Travis in particular.

 

[minor4th]

She "suckered" him with a stab wound to the heart area, he goes down, she stabs his back several times while he crawls out of the bathroom, she approaches him in hallway on all fours and slits his throat, drags him back the bathroom, puts him in shower and shoots him minutes later when she hears gurgling sound as gases escape his dead body.

She could not have shot him and caused the known projectile path of the bullet from the position Travis was found in the shower. For this scenario to be accurate, she would have had to reposition Travis again after he was dead in the shower. Extremely unlikely.

 

[dgfred]

And is that a VERY long knife in her right hand? hwow:

Looks like a gap between the door and her dress to me.