The Texts Messages: Warning! Graphic SEXUALLY EXPLICIT

[debs]

Once again, the texts have to be factored into a larger context. The point is that perhaps adults who try to hire hitmen to kill their spouses...and are suspected by police of "disappearing" a sibling of that child....and are alleged (by themselves) to have failed multiple Lie Detector tests about that disappearance...and have no alibi but "driving around...

And are alleged to be abusers of alcohol...are reckless enough to send sexually graphic texts to a stranger when THEY know police are watching them...and are reckless enough to defy their expensive attorneys wise advice (lying again that they were "driving around)...

And.. refuses to answer questions that are routine in any other divorce or undergo any tests designed to protect the child in question...

Yes, there is a valid point that the surviving child should be kept from them until answers can be given to terrifying and terribly important questions.

That's a lot different than generalizing about just a parent who sent a "sext."

But this thread IS about those texts. And they don't demonstrate to me anything near what people are suggesting, outside of she'll never make it as a seductress.

 

[stmarysmead]

Is Kaine qualified to make psychological diagnoses? He refused to answer questions about her physical and mental health before. Are we all supposed to understand that people who send adult text messages to other adults suffer from this same psychological disorder? I'm still not seeing how these texts are relevant to Terri being able to spend time with her child.

The problem is...Terri refuses to allow anyone to make any psychological diagnoses. None of us need rely on Kaine. Especially not Terri and her attorneys.

Why don't they say..."Bring it on! There is nothing in Terri's psychological make-up to hide. BRING IT ON!!!"

Surely it could be structured just so her previous medical records...her prescriptions...her visits to specialists..clinics...etc..could be viewed by the judge. Let's SEE THEM.

Or..I mean...the judge.

Question to our experts...Terri's medical records would be available in that context ..or not? Maybe her attorneys have already sen them.

HMMM....

And then , IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT...a court appointed specialist could exam her for her mental health, ETC. and parenting capabilities.

 

[debs]

Why were those text messages needed to do that? In very simple terms, they weren't. They were lurid and tawdry and meant directly to harm Terri's reputation in the public eye.

 

[stmarysmead]

But this thread IS about those texts. And they don't demonstrate to me anything near what people are suggesting, outside of she'll never make it as a seductress.

This thread may be about the texts. But discussing them out of context is futile.

Why? Because Terri is not so fortunate that the legal...civil and criminal courts allow for each aspect of this case to be discussed with blinders to all others. That dog won't hunt.

She will win no point in court by trying to isolate the sexts from the greater context.

No matter how often attempted or repeated.

Though I am sure her excellent attorneys already know that...hence..exit...stage left.

 

[nosysw]

Is Kaine qualified to make psychological diagnoses? He refused to answer questions about her physical and mental health before. Are we all supposed to understand that people who send adult text messages to other adults suffer from this same psychological disorder? I'm still not seeing how these texts are relevant to Terri being able to spend time with her child.

I didn't say Kaine made the diagnosis...I said he was discussing a pattern of behavior, of which the sexting was part, which IMO could go to any number of psychological diagnoses, two of which I suggested...And I said that I believe the pattern of behavior that the sexting is a part of is relevant to her character which is relevant to her parenting...

 

[stmarysmead]

Why were those text messages needed to do that? In very simple terms, they weren't. They were lurid and tawdry and meant directly to harm Terri's reputation in the public eye.

BBM On this we agree...and I'm sure if Terri's excellent attorneys...who know the law...and know their client...felt they had legal recourse..we would see it.

Till then, it's a moot point if anyone likes the tactic or not.

It happened.

They'll have to deal.

Not nearly the heartache of having your child disappear.

 

[Trt]

When Kyron and the baby are older and can understand, I think they will be confused as to why kaine chose to take this route to obtain custody of the baby as I'm sure J is now. They know that their mom/stepmom loves them and that they love her.

Terri and her lawyers have chosen to take the high road and not participate in his chosen way and I applaud them for it and I think the children will too.

So it is the high road to motion the court for RO modification to see your daughter and then, when challenged(as is the case when the other side feels strongly about the RO), withdraw the motion and continue to have no contact with your toddler? I think, more than questioning Kaine for protecting her, K will have questions for her mother as to why, if the allegations are false; didn't she fight? Why would she let daddy say those awful things about her and not fight to get contact with her.

That is, of course, if this is not all a moot point and K is not visiting her mom in jail for convictions related to her brother.

Jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

In Hindsight

Could this exercise have been an agreed to/planned Team Terri strategy? Bunch working with Houze? Taking advantage of Terri's right to push Team Kaine for incriminating information?

The proverbial "take a first shot across the bow".

Strategy: Use visitation pleadings to push Team Kaine to disclose "bad stuff" they have on Terri. Ferret out actual factuals or preview Team Kaine's disposition regarding their convictions about Terri's involvement and what evidence they feel supports those convictions.

I dunno.

Just I could see it as a type of research. Jumping in the fray, stirring up some information, then jumping back out.

Risky, but possibly valuable to Team Terri for reasons we don't understand.

Certainly, Team Terri knew when they started this overture, that Terri would likely be required to submit to evaluations and questioning for the court's consideration of these visitation pleadings. Certainly, they never intended for Terri to submit or agree to any of it. But...they did it anyway.

And yes, there lies the rub.

Very Interesting. :cow:

 

[Trt]

So all adults who send sexually explicit text messages to other adults are mentally ill and should have their children kept from them for their safety? I'm trying to grasp what I seem to be missing about the relevance of these texts to Terri's ability to visit with her child!

No, as is stated in the motion, it COULD be a sign of emotional disturbance to, while your stepson is missing and your daughter has JUST been taken from you, engage in sext texting and in the course of that sexting, use your concern for your daughter as a LIE to get out of the house and see a man that you barely know and are sexting with. That it COULD signal that one is not as concerned for seeing their child as their request for an EXPEDITED hearing stated, that while they had an opportunity to get an RO totally vacated, they are worried about whether or not everyone has *clean* phones to communicate on. That instead of helping to look for one's son, one is complaining about the son of the person that one is texting with as an obstacle to showing the sext recipient what one can *do* to him.

If Kaine had only provided the sexts for embarrassment purposes, Terri gave him plenty of Ammo...things that had nothing to do with the sexual nature of the texts themselves.

JMO

 

[Trt]

Is Kaine qualified to make psychological diagnoses? He refused to answer questions about her physical and mental health before. Are we all supposed to understand that people who send adult text messages to other adults suffer from this same psychological disorder? I'm still not seeing how these texts are relevant to Terri being able to spend time with her child.

Refused? Isn't the problem that many are having with Kaine filing the texts with the court that they became public? So, you would rather that Kaine had just openly and in interviews about KYRON gave what he felt were his lay person's observations about Terri's mental health?

Apparently Terri's lawyers thought that they would be relevant enough in court that they withdrew the request for modification after the texts became available to the court. If they are as irrelevant as we are trying to make them seem, Terri's high powered attorneys should have definitely been able to make that case in court. But yet we sit with Terri withdrawing her petition to be granted time with her daughter, when she had every opportunity to fight them much in the same way that internet sleuthers have fought them as being irrelevant.

I wonder why her high-powered attorneys decided that the texts were enough of a threat that Terri seeing her child became so unimportant?

JMO

 

[Adrienne37]

Why were those text messages needed to do that? In very simple terms, they weren't. They were lurid and tawdry and meant directly to harm Terri's reputation in the public eye.

Kaine didn't cause the harm in Terri's reputation in the public eye, she did that all by herself by choosing to partake in lurid and tawdry sext messages with a man who wasn't her husband. Considering the time frame in which she chose to participate in this lurid and tawdry sexting she would be stupid not to realize that everything that not only she did, but Kaine, Desiree, and Tony as well would be very well known to LE. This wasn't 6 months or a year after her "very much loved" stepson went missing, it was within the first month or shortly thereafter so I'm sorry, I'm not buying that Kaine harmed Terri's reputation in the public's eye, she managed that one all alone. JMO.

 

[stmarysmead]

In Hindsight

Could this exercise have been an agreed to/planned Team Terri strategy? Bunch working with Houze? Taking advantage of Terri's right to push Team Kaine for incriminating information?

The proverbial "take a first shot across the bow".

Strategy: Use visitation pleadings to push Team Kaine to disclose "bad stuff" they have on Terri. Ferret out actual factuals or preview Team Kaine's disposition regarding their convictions about Terri's involvement and what evidence they feel supports those convictions.

I dunno.

Just I could see it as a type of research. Jumping in the fray, stirring up some information, then jumping back out.

Risky, but possibly valuable to Team Terri for reasons we don't understand.

Certainly, Team Terri knew when they started this overture, that Terri would likely be required to submit to evaluations and questioning for the court's consideration of these visitation pleadings. Certainly, they never intended for Terri to submit or agree to any of it. But...they did it anyway.

And yes, there lies the rub.

Very Interesting. :cow:

Respectfully, why would Terri's attorneys feel it was valuable to Terri to have the sexts be made public and the public image of their client further demeaned?

They would have had to have gained something of great value...to put out this mess into the potential jury pool.

Surely, experienced attorneys could not have believed they would see ALL or even much of what "research" there might exist. They double-dared...a bomb landed...but are they really thinking this is THE ONLY bomb?

What if there are other sexts?

What about the stuff that "sickened" Desiree..and the "surprises" LE speaks of? There could be volumes..SO SO MUCH MORE! And not just sexts and "self-portraits"...murder, attempted murder...things done to Kyron.

Those cards won't be played. Maybe Kaine has an abundance of riches.

What about the "similar" stuff that links Terri to the Landscaper?

What if this portion of the sexts...contains "phrases" used by Terri ...say about Terri's sexual skills...that are the same phrases recounted by the Landscaper? Wouldn't THAT be compelling and add credibility to the LS story. I'm thinking of one particularly notable phrase.

So a bomb landed..but whatever would make her attorneys think.."Okay...that's all Kaine and LE have."

And if they did...why scurry away?

Personally, I think something backfired. We see in the sexts..their client lied to them from the beginning. Maybe they got...played again.

Or maybe, it was a brilliant legal strategy.

All I can say..IMO...to mitigate this junk...it better be genius when it's rolled out.

And...Terri, their client, is spending more months and the holidays without visitation. isn't she?

 

[Trt]

And her daughter's second birthday which is coming up soon, right? No matter what excuses we make for the texts (be it normal, adult behavior, or ugly coping, or whatever...) Terri and her lawyers thought that what Kaine provided to the court was inexcusable enough to not have Terri fight for even a birthday visit with her toddler daughter. That speaks volumes to me.

Especially since nothing Kaine put in his affidavit is illegal and would jeopardize Terri's 5th amendment rights. (even drinking until passing out and lying to your lawyer). JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

Respectfully, why would Terri's attorneys feel it was valuable to Terri to have the sexts be made public and the public image of their client further demeaned?

They would have had to have gained something of great value...to put out this mess into the potential jury pool.

Surely, experienced attorneys could not have believed they would see ALL or even much of what "research" there might exist. They double-dared...a bomb landed...but are they really thinking this is THE ONLY bomb?

What if there are other sexts?

What about the "similar" stuff that links Terri to the Landscaper?

What if this portion of the sexts...contains "phrases" used by Terri ...say about Terri's sexual skills...that are the same phrases recounted by the Landscaper? Wouldn't THAT be compelling and add credibility to the LS story. I'm thinking of what particularly notable phrase.

So a bomb landed..but whatever would make her attorneys think.."Okay...that's all Kaine and LE have."

And if they did...why scurry away?

Personally, I think something backfired. We see in the sexts..their client lied to them from the beginning. Maybe they got...played again.

Or maybe, it was a brilliant legal strategy.

All I can say..IMO...to mitigate this junk...it better be genius when it's rolled out.

And...Terri, their client, is spending more months and the holidays without visitation. isn't she?

You're assuming the sexts coming out in public cause huge harm to Terri's case.

Perhaps Terri's counsel considered the sexts being exposed a calculated and minmal risk worth taking. Perhaps Terri had already given her phone and text records to her counsel. Perhaps Terri's counsel considered the sexts, at this point in the development of the overall case, to be water under the bridge, and not terribly threatening or relevant, *yawn*, albeit titillating to the masses. Perhaps Terri's counsel felt it was time to say "Bring in on, Team Kaine" and just get it over with.

Perhaps they have experience that says, the longer the sexts are out there, IMO, the lest shocking they are. After all, Tiger's still golfing, Spitzer's got a talk show, and their bimbos are fading away... Not that Terri's a Tiger or a Spitzer ... just that the lurid stuff tends to pale after awhile ... once the initial shock is over, public opinion settles back into to focusing on the facts of the case, and the sexts become more window dressing and less the focus of who Terri is.

There is nothing in Houze's history that indicates he's less than extremely competent and ethical. IMO, it's quite pointless to cast aspersions upon his strategic skills at this point. I prefer to watch with interest, and postulate possible strategy while assuming this counsel knows exactly what he's doing.

 

[eyes4crime]

You're assuming the sexts coming out in public cause huge harm to Terri's case.

Perhaps Terri's counsel considered the sexts being exposed a calculated and minmal risk worth taking. Perhaps Terri had already given her phone and text records to her counsel. Perhaps Terri's counsel considered the sexts, at this point in the development of the overall case, to be water under the bridge, and not terribly threatening or relevant, *yawn*, albeit titillating to the masses. Perhaps Terri's counsel felt it was time to say "Bring in on, Team Kaine" and just get it over with.

Perhaps they have experience that says, the longer the sexts are out there, IMO, the lest shocking they are. After all, Tiger's still golfing, Spitzer's got a talk show, and their bimbos are fading away... Not that Terri's a Tiger or a Spitzer ... just that the lurid stuff tends to pale after awhile ... once the initial shock is over, public opinion settles back into to focusing on the facts of the case, and the sexts become more window dressing and less the focus of who Terri is.

There is nothing in Houze's history that indicates he's less than extremely competent and ethical. IMO, it's quite pointless to cast aspersions upon his strategic skills at this point. I prefer to watch with interest, and postulate possible strategy while assuming this counsel knows exactly what he's doing.

BBM

I think you've nailed it! :yes:

 

[Emma Peel]

I have a rhetorical question or two:

I wonder, have Terri & Kaine ever sexted with each other in the past?

With others?

:waitasec:

 

[Trt]

You're assuming the sexts coming out in public cause huge harm to Terri's case.

Perhaps Terri's counsel considered the sexts being exposed a calculated and minmal risk worth taking. Perhaps Terri had already given her phone and text records to her counsel. Perhaps Terri's counsel considered the sexts, at this point in the development of the overall case, to be water under the bridge, and not terribly threatening or relevant, *yawn*, albeit titillating to the masses. Perhaps Terri's counsel felt it was time to say "Bring in on, Team Kaine" and just get it over with.

Perhaps they have experience that says, the longer the sexts are out there, IMO, the lest shocking they are. After all, Tiger's still golfing, Spitzer's got a talk show, and their bimbos are fading away... Not that Terri's a Tiger or a Spitzer ... just that the lurid stuff tends to pale after awhile ... once the initial shock is over, public opinion settles back into to focusing on the facts of the case, and the sexts become more window dressing and less the focus of who Terri is.

There is nothing in Houze's history that indicates he's less than extremely competent and ethical. IMO, it's quite pointless to cast aspersions upon his strategic skills at this point. I prefer to watch with interest, and postulate possible strategy while assuming this counsel knows exactly what he's doing.

That doesn't account for why, after the affidavit comes out, Terri and her lawyers decide to stop fighting for visitation with K. I agree that Houze is competent from all we know of him. Which begs the question of why he felt that it was better to have the public perception be that Terri cares more about herself and her freedom than she does seeing her daughter? Future strategy aside, if Houze and Bunch are thinking *public perception* with letting the texts hang out there, what do they believe public perception is of a mother who would rather have no contact with her daughter than to fight allegations (not illegal) that aren't true? (i.e. that while she was sexting, she wasn't concerned for K or Kyron, when Kaine himself says that there are at least some texts that prove that she mentioned missing Kyron and K.)

I believe that both Tiger and Spitzer both had access to their children at the time of their sexual acts...

JMO

 

[stmarysmead]

You're assuming the sexts coming out in public cause huge harm to Terri's case.

Perhaps Terri's counsel considered the sexts being exposed a calculated and minmal risk worth taking. Perhaps Terri had already given her phone and text records to her counsel. Perhaps Terri's counsel considered the sexts, at this point in the development of the overall case, to be water under the bridge, and not terribly threatening or relevant, *yawn*, albeit titillating to the masses. Perhaps Terri's counsel felt it was time to say "Bring in on, Team Kaine" and just get it over with.

Perhaps they have experience that says, the longer the sexts are out there, IMO, the lest shocking they are. After all, Tiger's still golfing, Spitzer's got a talk show, and their bimbos are fading away... Not that Terri's a Tiger or a Spitzer ... just that the lurid stuff tends to pale after awhile ... once the initial shock is over, public opinion settles back into to focusing on the facts of the case, and the sexts become more window dressing and less the focus of who Terri is.

There is nothing in Houze's history that indicates he's less than extremely competent and ethical. IMO, it's quite pointless to cast aspersions upon his strategic skills at this point. I prefer to watch with interest, and postulate possible strategy while assuming this counsel knows exactly what he's doing.

I understand.

I feel exactly this way about LE and the criminal case against Terri. "competent"..."ethical"...and assuming they know "exactly what they are doing."

 

[Emma Peel]

[/B]

I understand.

I feel exactly this way about LE and the criminal case against Terri. "competent"..."ethical"...and assuming they know "exactly what they are doing."

Oh you're so right there. It makes for a fascinating legal battle.

I just wish it wasn't over Kyron...or any child...ever.

 

[stmarysmead]

That doesn't account for why, after the affidavit comes out, Terri and her lawyers decide to stop fighting for visitation with K. I agree that Houze is competent from all we know of him. Which begs the question of why he felt that it was better to have the public perception be that Terri cares more about herself and her freedom than she does seeing her daughter? Future strategy aside, if Houze and Bunch are thinking *public perception* with letting the texts hang out there, what do they believe public perception is of a mother who would rather have no contact with her daughter than to fight allegations (not illegal) that aren't true? (i.e. that while she was sexting, she wasn't concerned for K or Kyron, when Kaine himself says that there are at least some texts that prove that she mentioned missing Kyron and K.)

I believe that both Tiger and Spitzer both had access to their children at the time of their sexual acts...

JMO

Yes, exactly. And their position has been that Baby K is being deprived or even harmed by no visitation.

Yet, after the sexts are revealed...they signal to the public...that they are no longer concerned about damage to the child...in essence...they just go way.

And the sexts may be diffused...perhaps to some...but who knows what else is out there..especially what LE has in their pocket. And, Some will NEVER forget. Witness please the demise of Tiger's spokesman career.

LOL!

In any event...regarding Baby K being "harmed" or deprived...their presence position seems to be.."On second thought..errr..not so much. Carry on."