The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #3

[mimmy03]

I have never stated or even thought that GA murdered Caylee!

I'm not sure why you're quoting what I wrote, it wasn't directed at you. It was directed at another poster who I think misunderstood what I had written in a previous post and I just wanted to clarify. I don't think I ever said you thought GA murdered Caylee.

 

[Sustained]

Respectfully snipped ....

I also believe, that when JA was laughing at both the OS and CS of JB, that this hurt the states case. Why, it had nothing to do with the evidence you might say, but I disagree, I think it had everything to do with it. By laughing at what JB was saying, JA was undermining what JB was saying, and by extension, was depriving KC of her rights to a fair trial. It was plain and simple contempt of court, and could have influenced the jurors. It was also against HHJP's courtroom policies. JA was absolutely in the wrong with that disrespectful behavior.

And so were JB's discovery violations ... and you say nothing about JB's inability to ask a witness a question that was not leading or was not already "asked and answered'. And you do remember JB's "cut the cheese" comment, do you not ? And do you remember the wasted trial day when the DT asked to have FCA evaluated for competency ? It's funny that all of your criticisms fall on the State, but I guess I should expect that seeing that you're a verdict supporter.

The biggest mistake I believe the state made was when JA said "we can only hope the chloroform was used before the duct tape was applied, so Caylee didn't suffer." I believe the state realized it had pushed the hate KC agenda too far, and was actually trying to humanize her just a little, or at the very least, show that the state was compassionate and hoped Caylee didn't suffer. The reason I believe this was the biggest mistake made by the state, is because this simple sentence proved the state had no idea what really happened to Caylee. Regardless of what you think of the dt's performance throughout the trial, JB pounced on this tidbit and drove it home with the Mack truck HHJP was so fond of talking about. Personally, that one statement by JA would have been enough for me to find KC NG on count 1.

What difference does it make whether Caylee was suffocated through the use of duct tape or she died due to the inhalation of chloroform or both ? There was no video of the killing, as is the case in 99.9% of trials.
Maybe JA thought the jurors were intelligent enough to think that Caylee died, we don't exactly what killed her, but we know it's no accident due to the chloroform and duct tape, and we know who was the last person to see Caylee alive. But even a smart, experienced lawyer doesn't always evaluate juries correctly ...

I totally agree with the verdict.

I totally disagree with the verdict and hope some other little precious child does not get murdered by the evil sociopath.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

My opinion as well ...

 

[Sustained]

I wish I could believe that the jury gave this as much thought as you did...but nope don't believe it.
Just curious though...what do you think the jury thought of Baez's antics?

PS...and as we never saw the jury we have NO idea what they were looking at.

I believe the jury was looking at the clock to see what time the Dessert Lady was showing up !

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I wish I could believe that the jury gave this as much thought as you did...but nope don't believe it.
Just curious though...what do you think the jury thought of Baez's antics?

PS...and as we never saw the jury we have NO idea what they were looking at.

I thought JB's performance was susceptible to improvement. What do I think the jury thought of JB, I really don't know.

 

[yolorado]

If that were really to be true...wouldn't Baez have mentioned such in his OS? He kinda left everything hang...and then threw RK into the mix...pick up-drop off, etc. If it was an accident and George covered it up...why didn't Casey testify to that? That would have cleared everything up real quick.

People don't COVER UP accidents. People "cover up" to protect themselves when they are guilty. People "cover up" murders.

The police aren't there to prove what is claimed to be kidnapping (or show what they eventually come to believe was a murder) is an accident when the mother and last person to see the child denies any accident happened. It's up to the mother to claim their was and accident. If she doesn't, why would or should the police insist one happened?

We're through the looking glass on this one!

 

[RR0004]

People don't COVER UP accidents. People "cover up" to protect themselves when they are guilty. People "cover up" murders.

The police aren't there to prove what is claimed to be kidnapping (or show what they eventually come to believe was a murder) is an accident when the mother and last person to see the child denies any accident happened. It's up to the mother to claim their was and accident. If she doesn't, why would or should the police insist one happened?

We're through the looking glass on this one!

...and the same people who (IMO) disregarded the science would pray for it to save one of their loved ones without question. I don't think they could grasp the genius behind the work...but would blindly rely on it (IMO) if it meant life or death.
New science has to start somewhere (duh on me!).

 

[RANCH]

...and the same people who (IMO) disregarded the science would pray for it to save one of their loved ones without question. I don't think they could grasp the genius behind the work...but would blindly rely on it (IMO) if it meant life or death.
New science has to start somewhere (duh on me!).

I don't know, maybe this jury was afraid/intimidated by some of the new science presented. I wasn't.It seemed pretty easily understood to me.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Thanks for your post. I see you believe the state did a poor job in this case.I disagree. Were they perfect? No. But I think they did a good job. MOO.

I believe JA is a far, far more knowledgeable lawyer than JB.

I also believe the most professional performance by any lawyer was LDB, followed very closely by Mr. George.

I believe the state did a very good job of laying out the 31 days.

I believe the state outlawyered the defense, not only in trial, but for the last 3 years.

I believe the state outdid themselves in the Frye hearings, very impressive.

I believe LDB did an outstanding job of questioning the witnesses, a better job, with better results than any other lawyer in this case.

Aside from a few mistakes I mentioned in the other post, I think JA did a very good job, he is a great prosecutor.

I think they did as good a job as they could, for the most part, with the evidence they had to work with.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[RANCH]

I believe JA is a far, far more knowledgeable lawyer than JB.

I also believe the most professional performance by any lawyer was LDB, followed very closely by Mr. George.

I believe the state did a very good job of laying out the 31 days.

I believe the state outlawyered the defense, not only in trial, but for the last 3 years.

I believe the state outdid themselves in the Frye hearings, very impressive.

I believe LDB did an outstanding job of questioning the witnesses, a better job, with better results than any other lawyer in this case.

Aside from a few mistakes I mentioned in the other post, I think JA did a very good job, he is a great prosecutor.

I think they did as good a job as they could, for the most part, with the evidence they had to work with.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Now you have me confused. First you said the state made several mistakes. Now you say" they did as good a job as they could, for the most part, with the evidence they had to work with".So are you saying the evidence they had was faulty,or what?

 

[Sustained]

For the verdict supporters - since most of you believe there was not enough evidence to convict FCA, I'd like to ask you this :

What additional piece of evidence would you have needed to convict FCA of felony murder by aggravated child abuse ?

 

[happynanny]

The State did an outstanding job,end of story. The Judge was also outstanding. The Defence :banghead:. The Jury :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Respectfully snipped ....



My opinion as well ...

How good or bad the DT did was irrelevant to my post, which is why I didn't talk about the DT's mistakes.

Yes, I remember the "cut the cheese" remark, and I feel it was just as unprofessional as JA's comment about "pigs in a blanket".

I can criticize the DT, just as well as anyone. Over the past 3 years, they were often unprepared. They often filed motions they knew were going to be denied, but filed them anyway. Some of these are just SOP and necessary, but when AL was part of the team, the motions were numerous. JB made many mistakes during the trial. He missed numerous opportunities to impeach the states expert witnesses. He was too polite to witnesses and the jury (if there is such a thing as being too polite). CM was rude while questioning at least on one occasion. DS seemed too timid.

The PT outlawyered the DT at almost every turn, for 3 years.

JB is very inexperienced, and his mistakes could have lost the trial.

When JB would get close to a good moment for the defense, he would get overexcited, and blow it. He did this several times.

JA and LDB are better lawyers than JB, and they called him on almost all his mistakes, which is one reason there were sooooo many objections, sustained.
If JB was as good of a lawyer as JA or LDB or even CM or DS, I think the deliberation time would have been cut in half.

IF Caylee had been murdered, it would have made no difference whether it was via the duct tape or via the chloroform or both. The problem with JA saying "we can only hope", means the state was speculating, and he was admitting they didn't know, so maybe the chloroform didn't kill her, but there goes premeditation, maybe it was the tape that suffocated her, or maybe she wasn't killed at all and died accidently. They did not know what happened, and if the state doesn't know what happened, then how can the jury convict someone on maybe's?

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Now you have me confused. First you said the state made several mistakes. Now you say" they did as good a job as they could, for the most part, with the evidence they had to work with".So are you saying the evidence they had was faulty,or what?

What i am saying is someone can do a good job, even though they made some mistakes. The trial lasted for weeks, and this circus has lasted for years, over that period of time, we are humans, and bound to make some mistakes.

A baseball team can have a great game, make one error, and lose. Why can't a PT have a great game, make a couple mistakes and lose?

Yes, though, I think the evidence the state had was susceptible to improvement, and obviously so did the jury, which is why I agree with the verdict.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

For the verdict supporters - since most of you believe there was not enough evidence to convict FCA, I'd like to ask you this :

What additional piece of evidence would you have needed to convict FCA of felony murder by aggravated child abuse ?

I can't speak for anyone but myself on this subject. The simplest, easiest, and single piece of evidence that could have turned me around, would have been if the fatty substance like adipocere would have been subjected to the further testing needed to confirm it was adipocere.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[RANCH]

What i am saying is someone can do a good job, even though they made some mistakes. The trial lasted for weeks, and this circus has lasted for years, over that period of time, we are humans, and bound to make some mistakes.

A baseball team can have a great game, make one error, and lose. Why can't a PT have a great game, make a couple mistakes and lose?

Yes, though, I think the evidence the state had was susceptible to improvement, and obviously so did the jury, which is why I agree with the verdict.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Yes mistakes happen, but a good job should be mistake free. A fair job can have a mistake or two. A bad job would have several mistakes. MOO.

 

[com n sense]

I don't know, maybe this jury was afraid/intimidated by some of the new science presented. I wasn't.It seemed pretty easily understood to me.

I honestly think it went right over their heads. Not one of them mentioned the science at all, omly to say they never believed there was a dead body in the car.
I was flabergasted by that one. There was so much evidence Caylee was in that trunk decomposing & they completely missed it.
Never even mentioned it at all.:banghead:

 

[feddup]

I don't know, maybe this jury was afraid/intimidated by some of the new science presented. I wasn't.It seemed pretty easily understood to me.

I dont care if something is "new" that would not have intimidated me. The man was a total professional, even the other guy said: no, his PhD is not as a Chemist but he might as well be one? I presume you are talking about the air tests?
I will always believe from his testimony, Dr Vass, that Caylee dead was in that trunk and Chloroform played a part in it

 

[Amster]

Jury was too beholden to the judge. Perhaps if JP hadn't treated JA like a smashed bug on the bottom of his shoe......the jury would have actually listened to the states case. JP virtually told them to ignore it.

 

[RANCH]

I dont care if something is "new" that would not have intimidated me. The man was a total professional, even the other guy said: no, his PhD is not as a Chemist but he might as well be one? I presume you are talking about the air tests?
I will always believe from his testimony, Dr Vass, that Caylee dead was in that trunk and Chloroform played a part in it

I agree. Dr Vass is an excellent scientist.I don't believe he flew down to Florida to jerk peoples chains.He testified to what he believed in. MOO.

 

[feddup]

I believe the jury was looking at the clock to see what time the Dessert Lady was showing up !

I really believe we need Professional jurors for cases like this that are so serious. I feel ALOT of devious games were played. Such as JB throwing it out there with the GA molesting her thing right away although he had no way to back it up. If I were GA or his wife I would be LIVID.
Im sure theyre convinced that JB really forced their little daughter into this story but I think Casey, since we know she lies told him this. Why he didnt come up with a plan to back it up as fact is beyond me. That, plus he didnt even seem to have to.

I thik they looked forward to dessert lady, the movies, the restuant outtings and getting home And its sad because this was about a little girl who died a horrible death IMO.
I dont' believe it was an accidental drowning. I have never heard of a parent covering up an accidental drowning.
If it were,the most she would've been charged with was child neglect?
Thereis something very suspicious about Caylee's death.