The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #3

[NavySubMom]

No one was there so no one can say exactly what happened. All things considered the child is dead of unnatural causes. It's not natural for a healthy child to just die. Things to consider is Mom did not call 911, Mom partied for 31 days, Mom lied about whereabouts of child by blaming a babysitter, child was found with duct tape across the lower portion of her face, double bagged in trash bags and a laundry bag, Mom's car smelled like death verified by various witnesses, and last but not least her defense is she had nothing to do with the child's death but various people including the person who found the body were involved with disposing of Caylee's body, even though the evidence proves otherwise. Nothing defense said in opening statements was ever proven. However evidence SA presented would have made more sense if the jury had just listened instead of trying to judge the witnesses. What jurors did come forward said they did not believe GA molested KC. That meant they believed KC was lying. Why do people lie? Apparently so they can get away with murder. jmo

Exactly. But they convicted her of 4 counts of lying, though, so why did she need to lie about what she was lying about? Lying is consciousness of guilt, along with the 31 days, which some of the jurors who spoke said they did not consider at all because the foreman said they could NOT consider those 31 days. IMO, MOO, etc.

 

[RANCH]

Not if the tape was used to secure the CANVAS bag.

So your having the duct tape falling off the canvas bag and then sticking to Caylees hair?

 

[M.James]

You know, I can sort of understand why some people want to think she's not guilty. It's easier to emotionally believe Casey never killed her baby. Some people don't want to believe mothers will kill their own. My grandma would be one of those - may she rest in peace.

She'd never want to believe Casey killed Caylee, so would have breathed a sigh of relief when the defense made the claim of drowning, then would have crucified George and Lee after the molestation accusations. Why? Because there would need to be some excuse that took the blame away from the mother; mothers don't kill their children; mothers are their babies' saviors; mothers put their babies in baskets and drift them down the Nile if it means that will save their lives.

Yes, my grandmother was one of those who would have found it easier to believe that Casey was molested (men are evil), and hid an accidental drowning of her baby, than to believe the harder-to-believe story that a mother was so much more in love with herself than she was her own baby. And, the jury's answer would have set that in stone for her.
Just hearing 'Not Guilty' would have eased her mind so much that she would never have to question or think about why a mother never reported her child gone (not to authorities), why duct tape, why trash bags and the swamp, why the parties and tattoos. With a "not guilty" verdict all those things could be forgotten, and she could ease her mind.
Bless her soul, she wanted to believe the right things for the right reasons. I don't blame her for that.

Disclaimer: For those who my read this wrong - it is not meant to be said that my grandmother believed molestation was one of the 'right things and right reasons'. Sorry, just trying to clarify.

 

[coco puff]

Not if the tape was used to secure the CANVAS bag.

But it was found in her hair and hanging off her skull. Not one part was found on any of the bags that she was stuffed in. Have you ever worked with duct tape?

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Actually, I could probably be swayed to agree that she was in the trunk. However, that does not tell me if she died from accident or murder? Who put her there? Or for how long? And WHY?

MOO

Even if GA was being truthful when he said KC and Caylee left the house on the 16th, and he went to work at 2:45, and KC returned to the house at 3, and Caylee was dead at 3;30, and KC did not call 911, instead she placed duct tape over Caylee's mouth and triple bagged her and placed her in the trunk, drove to her boyfriends, went to rent a movie, drove around with Caylee's body in the trunk for 3 days, then placed Caylee's body in the wooded area, then lied and lied and wrote bad checks, until CA finally pinned her down and called 911, and then KC lied to LE.

Which of the above proves BARD that KC murdered Caylee?

How does any of the above prove BARD that Caylee did not drown in the pool and KC had a mental break, went into absolute denial, or grief stricken then proceeded to make terrible decisions and make up lies?

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[Baznme]

definitely March and imo not such a stretch for her to look it up once. And, the time span on that search was what, 3 minutes?

Oh, so she gets a free pass because it was only for three minutes. That can be a long time depending on what it is you want to know. IMO, ONCE was too many to search "how to make chloroform". What did she want to know that for, may I ask?

 

[pcrum12]

There were no other suspects with access to the tape

What kind of Duct tape would fall off of plastic bags?

I have never ever heard of a victim of and accident being duct taped. Who would do that and why? Makes no sense what so ever.

There were no other suspects because they only investigated Casey IMO.

Duct Tape can fall off Canvas - I never said the plastic bags.

If you are tramatized and covering up an accident. You might use duct tape to stage a kidnapping or maybe to package the deceased like you packaged your dead animals for 20 yrs. All JMO

 

[RANCH]

But it was found in her hair and hanging off her skull. Not one part was found on any of the bags that she we stuffed in. Have you ever worked with duct tape?

I think your question will be difficult to answer and still fit with dead animal packaging.Maybe the Anthony family duct taped the heads of their dead animals in some kind of sick pagan death ritual.

 

[pcrum12]

I saw the same thing with Spitz, LambChop, in fact Spitz was very surprised when JA showed him a picture that he had never seen before....it was clear to me the DT only showed Spitz a few pictures so he would testify as they wanted him to. Also, if I recall correctly (I may be mistaken but I think I remember this), Dr. G, who had the actual skull in her hand during the autopsy, had to cut the tape from BOTH sides of Caylee's hair. BOTH sides, my impression was the tape was stuck to both sides of her hair. This is what I recall, but if I was on the jury, I would have asked for clarification on this if I had any questino in my mind, which they obviously did not as they asked for not one piece of evidence or not one readback of testimony. IMO, MOO, etc.

BBM: Actually it was Dr. Gary Utz that cut the tape from the hair and the autopsy report doesn't give any reference as to what side, which side, or both sides.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/19/caylee.anthony.autopsy.pdf
reference page # 6453 (lower rt corner of pages) 3rd paragraph.

 

[Sustained]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sustained View Post

Not really ... the State's theory of death by chloroform and duct tape had plenty of evidence to back it up, including the most important evidence ... the consciousness of guilt. The Defense's theory of an accidental drowning and molestation had zero evidence to back it up as I don't consider a picture of Caylee on the pool ladder as evidence of drowning.

Please answer these questions if you would be so kind ...

1) Did the State present a photograph of Caylee playing with duct tape and say that was how she was killed ? That is what the DT is saying in effect with the pic of Caylee on the pool ladder.

Of course not. The DT was refuting (Prove (a statement or theory) to be wrong or false; disprove.) all the PT testimony that Caylee COULDNT climb the ladder, she WOULDN'T swim without help, She COULDN'T get outside. To refute the testimony is the DT job.

What testimony by the PT ? Who for the State testified that Caylee COULDN'T climb the ladder, or she WOULDN'T swim without help, or she COULDN'T get outside ? Please cite the trial testimony if you would be so kind.

The DT was not refuting anything when they presented the pool and ladder pics and CA's testimony about the ladder being up. They were trying to advance their drowning theory as plausible.

2) If the Defense had presented a picture of Caylee riding her tricycle out front of the A's home, is it reasonable to assume she was hit by a car and killed ? Same analogy as the fake drowning ...

That didn't happen and is irrelevant.

Exactly, same as the "drowning" ... irrelevant.

3) Say there was a drowning ... why have the A's left the pool up ?

Why would they swear KC wasn't pregnant at the wedding lol. Who knows? Whacked up family. Everything they do is inappropriate from LA laughing to denying pregnancy. Nuts.

The wedding and LA denying the pregnancy ? Oops, no one died at the wedding or when FCA was pregnant.

4) Since there was NO evidence of molestation, the jurors should have given enormous weight to the consciousness of guilt evidence and there was plenty.

That same evidence could be weighed as trauma, PTSD from the loss of her child. We don't know.

There was no evidence of trauma or PTSD from her child. We did have evidence of her lying to police, jailhouse interviews where all she was concerned about was herself, stealing from friends, Bella Vita tattoo, etc.

Trauma & PTSD ? Pure speculation ...

5) How does anyone in their right mind not think a dead Caylee was in the trunk of the Sunfire ? In addition to all of the smell testimony/chloroform/stain/hair evidence, the highly trained and accurate cadaver dogs HIT in the trunk of the car.

Actually, I could probably be swayed to agree that she was in the trunk. However, that does not tell me if she died from accident or murder? Who put her there? Or for how long? And WHY?

Accident or murder ? See chloroform & duct tape ...
Who put her there ? Who exclusively had the Sunfire from 6/16 until 6/27 ?
How long ? Doesn't matter, Caylee was dead in the trunk.
Why ? State does not have to prove Why ...

My responses in blue ...

 

[Baznme]

I know. That was so weird that the jury never caught that. JB goes into this long story about how Caylee drowned and later tells the jury, "We may never know how Caylee died." What, you just called your client a liar. I swear someone put something into their mints on their pillows at night. jmo

Yeah.....I noticed that at the time. Which is it? Did she drown or "we may never know how Caylee died"? Sheesh.

 

[pcrum12]

Oh, so she gets a free pass because it was only for three minutes. That can be a long time depending on what it is you want to know. IMO, ONCE was too many to search "how to make chloroform". What did she want to know that for, may I ask?

Maybe she was curious of why her boyfriend would post a picture of someone chloroforming a girl. Maybe she thought he might try to do that to her.

 

[annalia]

There were no other suspects because they only investigated Casey IMO.

Duct Tape can fall off Canvas - I never said the plastic bags.

If you are tramatized and covering up an accident. You might use duct tape to stage a kidnapping or maybe to package the deceased like you packaged your dead animals for 20 yrs. All JMO

My bolding

That's not true, it was the evidence that led them to Casey.

How do you know that they didn't look at others? When there is nothing that pointed elsewhere, the was the end of it, there was nowhere else to go. Maybe they should have made things up to help out poor Casey?

When all roads lead to casey that's where trhe investigation went. And rightfully so.
JMHO

 

[Sustained]

Even if GA was being truthful when he said KC and Caylee left the house on the 16th, and he went to work at 2:45, and KC returned to the house at 3, and Caylee was dead at 3;30, and KC did not call 911, instead she placed duct tape over Caylee's mouth and triple bagged her and placed her in the trunk, drove to her boyfriends, went to rent a movie, drove around with Caylee's body in the trunk for 3 days, then placed Caylee's body in the wooded area, then lied and lied and wrote bad checks, until CA finally pinned her down and called 911, and then KC lied to LE.

Which of the above proves BARD that KC murdered Caylee?

How does any of the above prove BARD that Caylee did not drown in the pool and KC had a mental break, went into absolute denial, or grief stricken then proceeded to make terrible decisions and make up lies?

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

So Caylee drowned in the pool and FCA sat in jail for 3 years facing the DP because of not reporting an accident and disposing of a body ? If that was true, any defense attorney worth his salt would have told FCA to fess up, tell where the body was, and deal with the legal consequences. For improper disposal of a body, she probably would have gotten probation given that it was her child. You mean to say she was so traumatized by the accidental death that she let 1000's of searchers traipse through snake-infested marshes and swampland looking for Caylee. Gimme a break ... her behavior reeks of nothing but guilt, of someone who did harm to her child.

My common sense tells me that FCA did something to Caylee, most likely using chloroform, that she was afraid would be detected if she fessed up where the body was found. And an overdose of chloroform, whether she meant to or not, is aggravated child abuse. And the fact Caylee died from it makes it felony murder.

 

[annalia]

If Casey was suffering from trauma, ptsd or any other ailment that might excuse her behavior the DT would have been all over it and it would haev been used to further try to portray her as the victim.

NO doctor ever stated she was suffering from anything, it's all a moot point and irrelevant.

JMHO

 

[KarmaGet'em]

Not if the tape was used to secure the CANVAS bag.

Actually, if you look at the canvas laundry bag, I believe that it is not possible to "tape it shut". There appears to be a sturdy rim at the opening of the bag so that it stays open. I thought CA even testified to that - they used to use it for the ball from the ball pit, but changed to a different mesh bag that could be closed by tightening the ties.

If the duct tape fell off of the bag because of the conditions in the dump site (flooding waters, dirt, etc), it would no longer be sticky enough to adhere itself to the hair - nor would it be able to position itself to keep the mandible in place.

 

[coco puff]

There were no other suspects because they only investigated Casey IMO.

Duct Tape can fall off Canvas - I never said the plastic bags.

If you are tramatized and covering up an accident. You might use duct tape to stage a kidnapping or maybe to package the deceased like you packaged your dead animals for 20 yrs. All JMO

Only other people with access to the duct tape were George and cindy. You already said you don't think George did it and Cindy would not have called LE so your statement makes no sense.

The tapes were small strips that over lapped in a pattern that would not make sense if you were taping a canvas bag

Finally, if you were staging a kiddnapping, wouldn't you actually report the kiddnapping to police?

I can't even respond to the dead animal comparison. Loving mothers don't do do that Ever. JC duggard was abused beyond belief but her number one goal was to protect her children from their father.

 

[RANCH]

My bolding

That's not true, it was the evidence that led them to Casey.

How do you know that they didn't look at others? When there is nothing that pointed elsewhere, the was the end of it, there was nowhere else to go. Maybe they should have made things up to help out poor Casey?

When all roads lead to casey that's where trhe investigation went. And rightfully so.
JMHO

This is the old tried and true "rush to judgement" defense. If only LE had done a better job the "REAL KILLER" would have been brought to justice.Oh, I forgot, it was only an accident.

 

[LambChop]

Not if the tape was used to secure the CANVAS bag.

There was never any tape on the canvas bag, no residue and no proof it was anywhere other than on Caylee's face. The mandible and hair are proof of that. This was already proven in court via the pictures and those who saw them. Even defense did not argue it was on the canvas bag. What would be the point the bag was completely open and small pieces of tape certainly would not have held it closed. jmo

 

[Sustained]

Maybe she was curious of why her boyfriend would post a picture of someone chloroforming a girl. Maybe she thought he might try to do that to her.

Why didn't she just ask RM about the picture ? She was texting and calling him all the time ...