The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #3

[RANCH]

So, the interview with Cheney Mason was posted (thank you) and I listened and watched it again. Matter of fact, twice. Where again in this interview does Cheney say she was obviously guilty?

Am I crazy? And just not hearing it?

Is there some other interview you are speaking of?

Your correct. He didn't use the word guilty.What is your point about this though?

 

[Sustained]

So, the interview with Cheney Mason was posted (thank you) and I listened and watched it again. Matter of fact, twice. Where again in this interview does Cheney say she was obviously guilty?

Am I crazy? And just not hearing it?

Is there some other interview you are speaking of?

Mason says "You can pretty much predict there's going to be a life sentence in a plea or have a circus trial, get convicted, and then get life".

I infer from that statement that he believes she is guilty and will get a life sentence. Why else would he predict a life sentence ? This is a man who believes in the jury system and the Constitution, right ?

 

[suzihawk]

So, the interview with Cheney Mason was posted (thank you) and I listened and watched it again. Matter of fact, twice. Where again in this interview does Cheney say she was obviously guilty?

Am I crazy? And just not hearing it?

Is there some other interview you are speaking of?

At approximately 2:15 in the video CM says,

"You can pretty well predict that there's going to be a life sentence. And, and either on plea and get it over with or have a circus trial and then be convicted and then get life."

I don't know how else one can interpret that other than he's saying he thinks she's guilty. :waitasec:

He was right about one thing, though. It certainly was a circus trial to which he contributed much to that atmosphere.

 

[com n sense]

Even Cheney Mason said she was obviously guilty before he became her lawyer.

AND he was as surprised as the rest of us at the NG verdict!
He also said " we may never know how this child died" .... That was after the NG verdict. I thought she drowned CM????

 

[RANCH]

Mason says "You can pretty much predict there's going to be a life sentence in a plea or have a circus trial, get convicted, and then get life".

I infer from that statement that he believes she is guilty and will get a life sentence. Why else would he predict a life sentence ? This is a man who believes in the jury system and the Constitution, right ?

I agree. It's pretty obvious from watching the video what Mason meant. <modsnip>

 

[Baznme]

I agree. It's pretty obvious from watching the video what Mason meant.<modsnip>

It's amazing to me, information is requested, you provide it, and yet the message isn't grasped and then they're gone.

 

[Baznme]

Did you catch 48 hours tonight? Interesting.......

 

[MissJames]

A quick rundown of the jurors. I got this from the synopsis KatelynnCouture did for WS.

There are several that I believe should not have been included either because they opposed the DP or because they or their family members had been arrested .

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mgKqMwusbjYrwYzM7s3M7n7LSN4xdLrEfkbwZHbiU88/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

Bold #'s gave interviews

#1 female/ a crisis counselor / has smelled decomp before / not against the DP (she baffles me )

#2 male/ IT tech for the county / wife's a cardiac nurse / against the DP (yet he said in an interview he initially voted for Felony one)

#3 female / JF wanted to be on the jury /32 yr old nursing student / admits she posted on FB that she had jury duty and got messages asking if she was on this jury,but didn't respond /For DP,but could set aside her feelings about the DP to give Casey a fair verdict (she satisfied both sides with that statement )/ would consider abuse,etc as mitigating factors .

#4 female/ (I can't judge people) only watches Westerns on TV ,plays Farmville on FB /wants to be a juror because it's her civic duty/ despite claiming she can't judge people ,she said she's indifferent to the DP.Thinks she could vote for it.
Challenged by PT /overuled

#5 female/ retired /completed 11 grades of school / "I guess I believe in the DP". Hasn't thought about it. /arrested for DUI but not charged/son has been on probation for cashing a bad check/grandson was arrested and did jail time for selling drugs

#6 male/manufacturer's rep for hotel ,restaurant equipment,etc /has also been a chef /indifferent to DP

#7 female/ indifferent about DP but has concerns in the past because it's racially skewed /works in juvenile justice and child welfare (office work)/dated a SA in the past /mother is an attorney /defense challenged due to watching coverage /overuled

#8 female/ recent kidney transplant -needs lab work / has no problem with DP/ said she would "try to sway the other jurors in favor of whatever her opinion was" / service rep @verizon / has London vacation plans for July 14th

#9 male / okay with DP / semi-retired does handi-work and takes care of friend who had a stroke/ no kids,willing to skip nephews upcoming wedding even though he already had plane tickets

#10 male /retention specialist with Verizon/ okay with DP if circumstances warrant it,but thinks it sad/ sister tied up dad and robbed him 17ish years ago and was incarcerated but turned her life around

#11 male -jury foreman / hard for him to decide on DP but thinks he could vote for it/ PE teacher -10th grade for 15 years /studying online for Master's in Special Education / judge showed attorneys a letter in private regarding this juror

#12 female /strong supporter of DP/ Publix Cook /thinks jury duty would be a "fun job"

Alternate #2 (included because he was interviewed post-verdict ) male/ would probably vote against DP in a referendum /HS gov't teacher / arrested for DUI in 2004 ,pled to careless driving/ thinks jury duty would be a great teaching tool for his students

Along with the ones noted as primary jurors,several of the alternates have had brushes with the law. The last alternate even said he has trust issues with LE. The State challenged ,but then agreed to include him ,as the LAST alternate (end of the line). Unfortunately ,all these jurors socialized and ate together .Even though they were not supposed to discuss this case,they could still discuss their own experiences and may have influenced other jurors.JMO

 

[logicalgirl]

Did you catch 48 hours tonight? Interesting.......

After I read the comments about the "mock jury" I haven't watched another 48 hours since - feel like filling us in? Especially after a teaser like that! :rocker:

 

[margE]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mgKqMwusbjYrwYzM7s3M7n7LSN4xdLrEfkbwZHbiU88/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

#11 male -jury foreman / hard for him to decide on DP but thinks he could vote for it/ PE teacher -10th grade for 15 years /studying online for Master's in Special Education / judge showed attorneys a letter in private regarding this juror

HMM.. I never saw this anywhere before. Anyone know what this is about?:waitasec:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Mason says "You can pretty much predict there's going to be a life sentence in a plea or have a circus trial, get convicted, and then get life".

I infer from that statement that he believes she is guilty and will get a life sentence. Why else would he predict a life sentence ? This is a man who believes in the jury system and the Constitution, right ?

And then excoriated the media for being wrong about the case...which he himself was. Utterly unbelievable.

 

[TexasLori]

Thank you, and yes, I fully expected a but... and I will dwell a little further on the adipocere. I believe I am in fact linking possiblities together. I just do not accept it as fact, that for example, the stain in the trunk was caused by decompositional fluids, nor that the adipocere substance was factually adipocere. I did indeed take into consideration Dr. V's testimony, as well as Dr. F's. So when I link these things together, as you have done, I come up with the following.

Let me start with the odor in the trunk. First off, there was a white trash bag in the trunk that came from a kitchen. There was a foul odor found in the trunk, and it also permeated to the interior of the car. There was chloroform in an air sample from the trunk, but there was no chloroform found in the interior of the car. Several people claimed they smelled human decomposition in the trunk, several others claimed they smelled a bad odor. So for me, thus far into the trunk evidence, it is looking or smelling like there may have been a dead body in the trunk, but it might have been an odor from the white trash bag. Next, we know flies flew out when GA and SB opened the trunk, and GA testified he heard maggots making a popping sound inside the white trash bag. Assuming there had been a body decomposing in the trunk at some point, thousands upon thousands of flies and fly casings and pupai would have been expected to be found not only in the trunk, but in the interior of the car as well. However, unlike the bad odor, the flies followed the same path as the chloroform and stayed only in the trunk, and amazingly in far less numbers than would be logically expected.

At this point, it is likely that there had been a body decomposing in the trunk, but it is also quite possible that there had never been a body decomposing in the trunk. So we go to the next piece of evidence. The stain. CA and LA said there had always been stains in the trunk. GA said there was a basketball sized stain in the trunk. Considering these sources, I took these statements with a grain of salt, and in my opinion, even if Caylee had been in a fetal position, the impression she would have left would have been much larger than a basketball. An officer used an alternate light source, and the stain looked like it may be blood or decompositional fluids. The vehicle was taken to the OCSO forensic garage and the csi's there tested to determine what caused the stain. Their tests came up negative for blood, negative for decompositional fluids, and negative for dna. At this point, although it is still possible that there may have been a body decomposing in the trunk, it is now just as likely that there was not a dead body in the trunk. But lets go further.

Unsatisfied with the OCSO csi results, carpet and air samples were sent to Dr. V. along with some of the contents of the white trash bag. Dr. V using technology only he can use claimed there was a shockingly high level of chloroform in the trunk, and that a fatty substance like adipocere was found on paper towells. He stated that the shockingly high amount of chloroform detected could not have been caused by a decomposing body alone. The defense cross examined and determined that Dr. V had done a qualative report, not a quantative report. How can a shockingly high level of chloroform be determined, if you do not know the quantity? Dr. V states that the fatty acid substance like adipocere contained steoric acid,palmeric acid, oleic acid and paleroleic acid, all of which are part of the makeup of adipocere, and all of which are part of the makeup of cheeses, and other dairy products, and further testing would be required to determine what this substance actually was. So now we have an odor that may have come from a dead body, or from a kitchen trash bag with maggots in it. We have some flies, but not really enough flies to determine whether they were in the trunk because of a dead body, or they were in the trunk because of the contents in a white kitchen trash bag. We have a stain, that although initially believed to have been caused by human decompositional fluids, no evidence recovered from the stain could confirm this. We have a quantative air sample, that found too much chloroform to be caused from a decomposing body inside the trunk, yet no chloroform found in the interior of the car, although the odor found its way from the trunk to the interior of the car. And we have a fatty substance like adipocere that could be either from a decomposing body (which although adipocere can form as early as within a few hours of death, it NORMALLY takes at least 2 to 3 weeks to form), or from something inside the kitchen from where the white kitchen trash bag originated.

There is much more, but the debate is the same. My claim is that I am not looking at each individual piece of evidence and raising doubt to it. I am piecing together both strings of evidence, one for and one against. And I come up to close to call which one is more believeable. And when both sides are equally believeable the jury must side with the defense, and that is why I think the verdict was correct.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

And I do appreciate your critical thinking here. I do wish the jury had applied such thinking in their deliberation. Unfortunately, it has been shown to us by them that they didn't.

You say that you are linking several pieces of evidence, in response to the statement that reasonable doubt can be applied to each piece separately. I believe that when you look at it as a whole, it does not equate to reasonable doubt.

Your example lists three elements of the same piece of evidence. The trunk. So I posit you are still not looking at the big picture.

Take the trunk evidence out and you still have Casey's lies, the 31 days, Caylee's body with duct tape, the partying, and not reporting Caylee missing. I just cannot think of any other conclusion than Casey killed Caylee.

And might I point out, no one has yet accepted my challenge to offer another reasonable scenario that fits with the evidence presented at trial.

 

[MissJames]

HMM.. I never saw this anywhere before. Anyone know what this is about?:waitasec:

I have to admit,I really didn't pay that much attention to the jurors ,themselves ,because I was so confident that the very least that would happen would be a hung jury.

Perhaps someone else remembers what this might be about.

 

[lauriej]

I think he is a phys. ed. teacher and sports coach....

..he's also the heath teacher.

..i remember this from jury selection-----

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mgKqMwusbjYrwYzM7s3M7n7LSN4xdLrEfkbwZHbiU88/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1#
---WS juror profiles---

"the Judge showed attorneys a letter in private regarding this juror".

( now i really wonder what that was about ?? )

 

[MissJames]

..he's also the heath teacher.

..i remember this from jury selection-----

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mgKqMwusbjYrwYzM7s3M7n7LSN4xdLrEfkbwZHbiU88/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1#
---WS juror profiles---

"the Judge showed attorneys a letter in private regarding this juror".

( now i really wonder what that was about ?? )

LOL I just posted a rundown of the jurors and included that. Great minds think alike.I was just thanking your posts on the probation hearing thread,but it's locked now.

There are just so many issues with some of the jurors ,I don't understand why they were picked.

 

[gladiatorqueen]

Hate to quote myself, but does anyone know this to be fact? Did these 2 jurors that have spoken to the media this far reveal THEIR beginning vote? Have they stated anywhere that they voted NG to begin with? Anyone? Love to see a link if it has been stated by either.

Thank you. I am so tired of the accusations being made against the jury with no proof of any of it.

 

[3doglady]

A quick rundown of the jurors. I got this from the synopsis KatelynnCouture did for WS.

There are several that I believe should not have been included either because they opposed the DP or because they or their family members had been arrested .

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mgKqMwusbjYrwYzM7s3M7n7LSN4xdLrEfkbwZHbiU88/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

Bold #'s gave interviews



#2 male/ IT tech for the county / wife's a cardiac nurse / against the DP (yet he said in an interview he initially voted for Felony one)

Respectfully snipped. At least juror #2 understood that he was voting in the guilt phase and not the punishment phase of the trial. I wish he could have gotten that basic concept through to the others.

 

[dizzychick]

I was unhappy at how fast the jury was selected. That last juror was voicing his desire not to be on the jury and judge grabbed him up as it was reaching the end of the last day. I dont know what number he was. Would he have been the 12th? Anyway it is my opinion with the haste this jury was picked so was the haste in the deliberations.

 

[MissJames]

A quick rundown of the jurors. I got this from the synopsis KatelynnCouture did for WS.

There are several that I believe should not have been included either because they opposed the DP or because they or their family members had been arrested .

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mgKqMwusbjYrwYzM7s3M7n7LSN4xdLrEfkbwZHbiU88/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

Bold #'s gave interviews



#2 male/ IT tech for the county / wife's a cardiac nurse / against the DP (yet he said in an interview he initially voted for Felony one)

Respectfully snipped. At least juror #2 understood that he was voting in the guilt phase and not the punishment phase of the trial. I wish he could have gotten that basic concept through to the others.

I totally agree. He said he was the last hold out,also. I hope he'll give another interview with more details.

 

[margE]

Thank you. I am so tired of the accusations being made against the jury with no proof of any of it.

Hope this is allowed..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_O-wtl5_yo"]&#x202a;CNN: Casey Anthony juror: We didn&#39;t buy drowning&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]