The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree?

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That is my opinion. KC is not right in the head for a reason! Too many secrets in that house. No babies daddy, paternity testing by fbi, "don't worry I didn't say anything", "things are going to come out". She didn't come forward with the incest until she seen her father throwing her under the bus. Incest is a closely guarded secret. It does not surprise me that she didn't admit it until later. It's very shameful event for the victim. We will probably never know but It is my opinion.

BBM

..she admitted it as soon as she found a way to swap letters with another inmate......undoubtedly KNOWING that all of her ramblings would eventually make it to the media for all the world to read.

..IMO, she only wrote that in the 1st place to "one-up" robyn------ (enough about YOU and your problems! that happened to me-Me-ME !!! too! )
 
Let's see, George was shady and lied on the stand about the affair with RC/KH. So because of that George had to have done something really bad. George had to have molested KC and Caylee, helped cover up an accidental drowning and made it look like murder or he even murdered Caylee himself.

KC lies repeatedly about anything and everything, never reports her daughter missing, parties for 31 days to the point that no one has any clue that anything has happened to her daughter at all, gets a Bella Vita tattoo and now it was all because she was molested by her father or was told that she would take the blame for what happened to her daughter even though she herself did nothing wrong.

For some reason I don't understand the logic behind those things. That just does not add up to me. But hey, let's accuse George of all kinds of horrible things because he "lied" on the stand or was "shady" and let's excuse KC of all kinds of horrible things because she lied repeatedly and accused her dad of molestation.

MOO

I actually think all of the A's "shadiness" (lies and back peddling) was to protect their daughter. I think the only completely honest thing Ive heard from either of them was CA's 911 call "smells like a dead body in the damn car." But GA's lying really just points to protecting his daughter (saving her from death row) to me.

I agree w/you... there is no logic behind GA finding a dead Caylee, immediately screaming "your mother will never forgive you" and disposing the body!
 
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/casey-anthony-trial-jeff-ashton-hammers-defenses-bug-1545365.html

Casey Anthony trial: Jeff Ashton hammers defense's bug expert
Expert for defense admits Casey's car smelled



"Ashton challenged everything from Huntington's experience to the validity of his opinions to his failure to include one of those opinions in a report prepared for Anthony's first-degree murder trial in the death of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee Marie."

"For example, Ashton got Huntington, a key defense expert, to admit that when he examined Casey Anthony's Pontiac Sunfire in July, roughly two years after Caylee's death, the car still smelled.

The assistant biology professor from Concordia University inNebraska attributed the odor, possibly, to the garbage that had been in the car. But later, he acknowledged the waste contained no apparent food sources.

Several other witnesses, including Casey Anthony's parents, have said the Pontiac smelled as if a dead body had been inside.

The prosecution says Caylee's body was placed in the car's trunk before she was ultimately dumped in woods near the Anthony home. Her remains were not discovered until December 2008, several months after Caylee was first reported missing.

Huntington told Ashton on Friday that insect evidence from Caylee's recovery scene indicated that the body had been moved to the woods after probably decomposing two or three days, a timeline more or less consistent with the state's theory.

He also confirmed that the body had likely been left at that wooded location months earlier, another statement supportive of the state's theory.

Huntington said he largely agreed with an explanation about insect findings included in a report by Neal Haskell, the prosecution's insect expert."

Let me ask this, when CA called 911, when she found out Caylee was actually missing for 31 days; why didn't the police/le smell that smell of death when they walked past the car in the garage? It smell so strong why didn't they smell it?
 
What evidence points to Caylee drowning in the family pool? What evidence points to Caylee's death being an accident?
 
That is my opinion. KC is not right in the head for a reason! Too many secrets in that house. No babies daddy, paternity testing by fbi, "don't worry I didn't say anything", "things are going to come out". She didn't come forward with the incest until she seen her father throwing her under the bus. Incest is a closely guarded secret. It does not surprise me that she didn't admit it until later. It's very shameful event for the victim. We will probably never know but It is my opinion.

Well we do agree on one thing pcrum, KC is NOT right in the head! :loser: The secrets, in my opinion, can be easily explained....
Baby's Daddy....KC herself did not know who the father was or if by chance the guy was "hispanic" and hated by Cindy, KC kept this secret.

Paternity testing by FBI...you can thank good old Leonard Padilla for that rumor running rampant. He was the one that said Lee could possibly be the daddy so the FBI did a DNA test to confirm Lee was NOT the daddy.

"Don't worry I didn't say anything"......KC meant she didn't say anything about the fight that occurred between her and Cindy on the night of June 15th because this would've shown MOTIVE!!!

"Things are going to come out".....said Lee to KC. Lee meant that the fight between her and Cindy would eventually come out and he would have to tell the truth about him witnessing the fight.

Funny how this "incest thing" never came up in the two years prior to KC pen-paling with RA. If RA had a story to tell, KC had a better one! I don't believe for one second that KC was sexually molested by her father. For someone that has truly been molested, they are afraid of their molester, not telling that person that they've been a great dad and grandfather. I have witnessed my BFF that was molested have to deal with him and she will only deal with him by phone, not in person.



BBM: She wan't murdered. She drowned in the family pool. JMO
Where is the PROOF? There is NONE!!! A possible drowning has been discussed here on WS almost since day one. IF this was a drowning, KC would've NEVER spent three days in jail for it, much less three years!!!!
 
Let me ask this, when CA called 911, when she found out Caylee was actually missing for 31 days; why didn't the police/le smell that smell of death when they walked past the car in the garage? It smell so strong why didn't they smell it?

IIRC, LE was inside the HOUSE, not the garage! Law enforcement didn't "walk past the car", they entered the house through the front door. If you will remember, the Anthony's were separated to talk to different LE that night. I don't recall any of the LE officers walking past the car in the garage that FIRST night. :waitasec:
 
Very simple ... it wasn't the truth. Who would sit in jail for almost 3 years covering for a father by whom she was sexually molested ? Remember the jailhouse interview where FCA says "You've been a great dad and grandfather". Why would FCA live at home with the man who supposedly molested her ? Why not get a job, move into an apartment, and take Caylee away from the vicious perverted monster that is GA ? Why not turn in this molester or tell CA about what happened ?

Spare me this hogwash about GA molesting FCA ... just another smokescreen thrown up by the DT to confuse an already confused jury.

thank you so much.... and ive said it before and will say it again, this "great" liar could have lied and said the "accident" was a murder and got rid of GA for the rest of her life... GA molesting FCA is hogwash!!!!!

and btw, for those who think FCA was molested, watch the jailhouse tapes again... FCA is no victim! She is a heartless little witch who only thinks about herself.
 
i tend to think it is more horrible than I can even imagine... Bless you little Caylee!

GracieLu I tend to think it is more horrible also. Everyone that watched the trial saw Casey's "face of fury". She was a monster, an evil, cold-blooded person when she was trying to get CM's attention to shut JB up!!!! I pray that is not the face that Caylee saw before she drew her last breath. :(
 


OMG! pcrum12 you cannot be serious???? You think Casey AND Caylee were abused? This is utterly ridiculous!!! If Casey HAD been sexually abused by her father, why would she even allow her father to be around Caylee? Makes no sense whatsoever! You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. I will NEVER believe that George sexually molested his daughter and NEVER his granddaughter!




I have to say..WOW! I was told by a friend this was a great site to go on to discuss and learn about cases. To be very honest....I am a little scared to post. It feels almost like discussing politics. Not that I have read anything down right *bad* but some post feel a little passive-aggressive.:waitasec:

I do realize people feel very strongly one way or the other about this case. I think b/c most people have a deep love for this little girl that we didn't know.

Anyway, I just wanted to respectively disagree with you on your above comment. My mother was an incest victim. From a toddler age until she got married and moved out. My mother can't tell the truth about anything to save her life. Excuses and blame. That's all she knows. She is not attached to anything...me or my brother. Actually, she had this really weird relationship with my grandfather. She was overly friendly with him. I was left alone with my grandfather tons of times. To me, he was just grandpa. I never remember him doing anything to me. Luckily, I didn't live with my mother much growing up.

And yes....I do know my mother told me the truth when I got older. My grandmother also confirmed it on her death bed. She always knew deep down. Times were different then though. Grandma had 9 kids. Govern. didn't help back then when you wanted out. Even abusing kids was not a "big" thing.

For the record though...I don't believe GA abused his granddaughter. I believe him and Cindy both loved Caylee and looked at her as a second chance.

Just my 2 cents...and that's probably all it's worth.
 
If you are a seasoned, pathological liar, and your child accidently drowns and you don't want the police to know that you (and now apparently your child) have been sexually molested by your father. Do you:

1) Hide the body, stage a kidnapping/murder, go partying, lie through your teeth to LE, sit in jail for three years, face the DP and then tell about the molestation. (of you not your daughter)

OR

2) Call 911 and just keep your mouth shut about the molestation.

Hmmm?
 
Only quoting parts of these posts:
And, IMO, the main thing that hurt Dr. G's opinion was her saying 100% of all accidents are reported. :
While I agree she did say '100% of accidents', that statement, IMO, was meant to indicate her earlier statement that after studying the data from her jurisdiction, they found that 100% of accidental drowning victims had called EMT's.

As I stated in one of the other threads this one originates from, the only thing that led me to believe it was possible was the cadaver dogs because they are not biased, don't watch the news, aren't looking for their 15 minutes, etc. But, they hit on the car once, they hit in the back yard once, but didn't hit on the second time.

1.The napkins were consistent with adipocere, there were not confirmed to be that. 2. And as far as the odor of the car, there were LE that should've smelled it but didn't... just as there were LE that smelled it. So, when dealing with "presumed innocent until guilty", I would have to say that I would presume that it wasn't decomp in the trunk, too many inconsistencies. 3. Let alone the number breakdown of the chemical analysis, because I've posted that one already.
On the bolded part, I'm wondering which of those you consider applicable re: someone of Dr. Vass' stature ? This man did that work because he could help, IMO. He was not paid for it and IIRC the defense's Dr. Furton fits that bill a lot more than Dr.Vass - he even admitted that his students cite Dr. Vass in their thesis as he is considered an esteemed leader in this field.

(see quote above for points numbered red)
1. The testimony was that even though each of those elements can be found elsewhere, it was the totality of the elements that proved adipocere. And not only did Dr. Vass prove it, IMO, he was able to show it was most probably within the first 2-3 days of death.
2. There were few LE (maybe 1, IIRC) around that car that didn't ID the smell as decomp and a few non LE that did. Both Dr. Vass and Dr. Rickenbach did - none of the defense witnesses got close enough to smell it. Those LE (or others) that didn't smell or recognise it were the ones who were near the car after CA had aired it out for 5+ hours in the garage, scattered dryer sheets in it and sprayed it with Fabreeze. Once the trunk was closed, the smell accumulated again because it was in the carpet and tire well.
3.As I explained when you posted that earlier your numbers breakdown was seriously flawed...as I explained earlier, you cannot use the 400+ figure because that had nothing to do with the 5 figure. The 400+ figure was his complete database. Here's a better idea of what Dr. Vass' report said if you want the real ratio:

51 chemicals found in the trunk
41 of those are in his decomp database
Eliminated 17 that could potentially overlap with gasoline, leaving 24 associated with decomp
Eliminated 9 that could be potentially linked to other controls, leaving 15 + chloroform, known to be associated with human decompositional events
7 of those 16 are in his 'significant 30' list
eliminated 2 of those 7 because they were trace amts.
leaving 5 from his 'significant 30' list found in the trunk (1 is chloroform)

But he also stated that to get a real percentage, you'd also have to exclude 20 from the 'significant 30' that did not pertain to this case (aerobic, late stage and florine related elements) So the realistic ratio would be 8 out of 10, or 80% of elements found in this trunk were in his 'significant elements of human decomposition'. He used only 5 to be sure he was being 'very conservative', but in his educated opinion it was actually 80% of the 'significant 30'.
Also(this is mine not Dr. Vass)of the 51 total elements found in that trunk, 41 are in his (400+) database, so 80.4% of every chemical they found in the trunk are in that database!

She sealed the car after YM told her to, which IIRC was on the 17th of July. Another, at least day, of being in the FL heat. When YM, GB, and Co. got the car they could smell it. Why wouldn't Beasley recall if she smelled anything when she sealed it? She was pretty close to the car in order to do that.
It was removed on the 16th, again after being aired out for hours. Also, she elaborated on 'sealing'...she basically slapped small pcs. of evidence tape onto each door and trunk opening. That takes just seconds, not as if she was applying long pcs. of tape completely sealing every opening, so she may have been within 3 ft. of the closed trunk for 10 sec. or so (those tow truck guys do not like to be left waiting). And again, after the car had been aired out and Fabreezed.
 
Honestly it truely bothers me that some are saying there is no evidence that KA killed Caylee but are willing to accuse a grandfather of sexually abusing his daughter and grandchild with just the word of a convicted lier.That is truely sad IMO.


How is it prove GA did molest Casey? How would people believe it?

Does people just not want to believe that *maybe* a father could do something so vile? Is it not possible? I suspect that even if GA did admit to it....just as many people will believe he is lying.

Casey could sit in jail for 3 years b/c of shame.

Shame is a powerful force.

I'm not saying it happened...I'm just saying that it could have. We will probably never know.

Just my opinion.
 


OMG! pcrum12 you cannot be serious???? You think Casey AND Caylee were abused? This is utterly ridiculous!!! If Casey HAD been sexually abused by her father, why would she even allow her father to be around Caylee? Makes no sense whatsoever! You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. I will NEVER believe that George sexually molested his daughter and NEVER his granddaughter!




I have to say..WOW! I was told by a friend this was a great site to go on to discuss and learn about cases. To be very honest....I am a little scared to post. It feels almost like discussing politics. Not that I have read anything down right *bad* but some post feel a little passive-aggressive.:waitasec:

I do realize people feel very strongly one way or the other about this case. I think b/c most people have a deep love for this little girl that we didn't know.

Anyway, I just wanted to respectively disagree with you on your above comment. My mother was an incest victim. From a toddler age until she got married and moved out. My mother can't tell the truth about anything to save her life. Excuses and blame. That's all she knows. She is not attached to anything...me or my brother. Actually, she had this really weird relationship with my grandfather. She was overly friendly with him. I was left alone with my grandfather tons of times. To me, he was just grandpa. I never remember him doing anything to me. Luckily, I didn't live with my mother much growing up.

And yes....I do know my mother told me the truth when I got older. My grandmother also confirmed it on her death bed. She always knew deep down. Times were different then though. Grandma had 9 kids. Govern. didn't help back then when you wanted out. Even abusing kids was not a "big" thing.

For the record though...I don't believe GA abused his granddaughter. I believe him and Cindy both loved Caylee and looked at her as a second chance.

Just my 2 cents...and that's probably all it's worth.

rollinginit I don't understand why you are "scared" to post here? :waitasec: Everyone has an opinion and they have the right to post that opinion. If you feel my post was "passive-aggressive", I'm sorry you feel that way.

I'm sorry your mother suffered incest. My BFF suffered sexual molestation by a family member and she acts totally normal. I do realize that each person reacts differently to abuse, in other words, there is no "play book" as to how each person will act or will act in the future. Just as each person reacts to difficult situations in their life, incest & molestation are no different. Yes I agree that incest and molestation are truly heinous and they can ruin a person for life, IF that person let's it ruin them.

Please don't be scared to post here. It is the injustice for a precious, innocent, two-year old baby that was killed that keeps all of us interested in this case, no matter what side you are on.
 
Thank you Trapshooter.

My brain likes figuring stuff out. I love reading everybody opinion. I've learned stuff I didn't know just by reading and clicking on the links everybody post.

I'm a mother. So my brain has a hard time wrapping around a mother killing her child. I would die for mine as I suspect most on here would.

Abuse is a terrible thing. To watch somebody's life go to the can b/c of it is a very hard thing.
 
How is it prove GA did molest Casey? How would people believe it?

Does people just not want to believe that *maybe* a father could do something so vile? Is it not possible? I suspect that even if GA did admit to it....just as many people will believe he is lying.

Casey could sit in jail for 3 years b/c of shame.

Shame is a powerful force.

I'm not saying it happened...I'm just saying that it could have. We will probably never know.

Just my opinion.

Where is the evidence that being molested = acting the way FCA acted after an alleged accident which killed her child. There is NO evidence that being molested would have caused that.
 
The acetone that is used to make chloroform isn't the nail polish remover.
It's a true acetone, I believe you can buy it at hardware stores, not sure where else. Also Clorox and lots of ice. When I read the recipe I didn't think it would be an easy task to make.

That's right.....thanks for the correction. I remember the discussion many moons ago about the commercial acetone or the kind you would buy from the hardware store. As in paint remover, in the large can. I think I used this product some years ago to take varnish some antique furniture.

Still, I believe either she made it or bought it from someone since Dr. Vass's report seems to indicate it was definately there in the trunk, particularly in that piece of carpet sample and the wheelwell.

What did RM do for a living? Just curious.
 
How is it prove GA did molest Casey? How would people believe it?

Does people just not want to believe that *maybe* a father could do something so vile? Is it not possible? I suspect that even if GA did admit to it....just as many people will believe he is lying.

Casey could sit in jail for 3 years b/c of shame.

Shame is a powerful force.

I'm not saying it happened...I'm just saying that it could have. We will probably never know.

Just my opinion.

IMO its easier to believe a big old bad old man took advantage of a young girl then to believe a young mother was responsible. I respect your opinion but I totally disagree. IMO KC doesnt even know what a shamed is and in no way would she cover for anyone but herself.
 
Quote:Originally Posted by sacrablue View Post
It was not the tow person's business to call the police. George did smell the decom and knew he had problems. Before calling police he wanted to contact Casey and get the information from the horse's mouth before contacting LE.

SB works for OCSO, and I believe that if anyone sees a crime, knows of a crime, etc decides not to report, it's hindering an investigation and they could actually be charged.

Regardless of who works for who and whose duty or business it is, doesn't common sense or your duty as a human being tell you that when a car comes into your yard smelling of decomp (in your opinion) you don't just shrug and process the car? what if the decomposing human is in the trunk ?
 
I think Caylee was "probably" killed by accident, due to Casey wanting to party ( drugging Caylee and she passed away from OD) and GA was NOT involved at all... I think it was a horrible accident and there is NO WAY that I could find Casey DP guilty. "I" feel that the DP should be for people like Gacy, Dahmer, Bundy and the WORST ever "Big Ed Kemper", whom was 100 times worst than any of them. ( If you don't know about Big Ed, look him up and you will have nightmares FOREVER....



I had to add that I've NEVER heard of "Big ED Kemper" until this board and he did'nt even get the DP!!! He's up for review in 2012 and what he did to his victims are NOT even in horror movies..Bad stuff.
 
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