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cody100 said:
He only read 20 to 25 of all of those. LOL

Yes, I just listened to the interview myself. I can see where his statement could be misunderstood. Regardless though, to me it sounded like he was basing his findings on golo, which, as I said earlier, has gotten to be a real cesspool IMO. A couple years ago it seemed to be a bit more of a discussion board. Now, it's like a real trailer park brawl IMO. MOO MOO Kurtz came across as okay, but I absolutely do NOT buy his 'computer tampering' stance at all. There was no one who had any motive to 'frame brad'. IMO. If somebody wanted to frame brad, there were far easier methods to do so IMO. There was evidence Brad had spoofed calls in the past, he admitted to it in the deposition videos. He admitted he had the ability, that he'd done it in the past, and that he possessed the equipment to do so. There was a reason Nancy called the realtor, needing to find a place to live ASAP. And there was a reason nancy kept looking across the street that night, waiting for the lights to go out. Unfortunately, only Brad is alive to enlighten us as to what that reason was, and I doubt he'll be talking any time soon. :(
 
I don't know where you are reading "all the police are bad" and "just like the Duke Lacrosse Team". That has not been a part of this discussion board that I am aware of, and I read regularly. It was also not mentioned in relation to this trial ... that I know of.

I'm primarily talking about the GOLO board...That place was/is a magnet for the angry, conspiracy theorists, IMO...

However, there were posters on this board who brought up the Duke LX fiasco as evidence that the police and DA's office are corrupt. In fact, I'm sure I heard about the issues with your crime lab on this board. (I live far away and didn't know about it.) Someone mentioned it while explaining why LE shouldn't be trusted.
 
I'm primarily talking about the GOLO board...That place was/is a magnet for the angry, conspiracy theorists, IMO...

However, there were posters on this board who brought up the Duke LX fiasco as evidence that the police and DA's office are corrupt. In fact, I'm sure I heard about the issues with your crime lab on this board. (I live far away and didn't know about it.) Someone mentioned it while explaining why LE shouldn't be trusted.

Both have been brought up here, because I myself have posted

:deadhorse: in response to those issues here. :great:

:eek:fftobed:
 
Both have been brought up here, because I myself have posted

:deadhorse: in response to those issues here. :great:

:eek:fftobed:


I'm :eek:fftobed: myself...Yep...in any trial we do see diverse opinions...
 
I'm primarily talking about the GOLO board...That place was/is a magnet for the angry, conspiracy theorists, IMO...

However, there were posters on this board who brought up the Duke LX fiasco as evidence that the police and DA's office are corrupt. In fact, I'm sure I heard about the issues with your crime lab on this board. (I live far away and didn't know about it.) Someone mentioned it while explaining why LE shouldn't be trusted.

Regardless, I think the that cases that you have referenced have no relation to this case.

N'est pas? If I'm mistaken, show me the connection.

Thx. in advance
 
Both have been brought up here, because I myself have posted

:deadhorse: in response to those issues here. :great:

:eek:fftobed:

Is that a dead dog, or a dead donkey?
 
Yes, I just listened to the interview myself. I can see where his statement could be misunderstood. Regardless though, to me it sounded like he was basing his findings on golo, which, as I said earlier, has gotten to be a real cesspool IMO. A couple years ago it seemed to be a bit more of a discussion board. Now, it's like a real trailer park brawl IMO. MOO MOO Kurtz came across as okay, but I absolutely do NOT buy his 'computer tampering' stance at all. There was no one who had any motive to 'frame brad'. IMO. If somebody wanted to frame brad, there were far easier methods to do so IMO. There was evidence Brad had spoofed calls in the past, he admitted to it in the deposition videos. He admitted he had the ability, that he'd done it in the past, and that he possessed the equipment to do so. There was a reason Nancy called the realtor, needing to find a place to live ASAP. And there was a reason nancy kept looking across the street that night, waiting for the lights to go out. Unfortunately, only Brad is alive to enlighten us as to what that reason was, and I doubt he'll be talking any time soon. :(

20 to 25
What is that about?

I hope you're not thinking that 20/22,000 forum comments means 20/25.
 
Important PSA:
Guys there were a bunch of broken quotes which in turn makes it look like posters said things they didn't and it was carried for a bit.
I did the best I could to determine who said what and place the quotes properly.
If I quoted you as saying something you didn't please let us know! we will fix it.
 
I think this case would have benefited with a specialty judge who was proficient in computers. As to the compensation, I heard Trenkle was being paid and Kurtz was offering his services free-------now I can't recall where I heard that and I can't speak for the truth of the matter. Please let us know when you have a perfect answer for our trial system. I hope your daughter does well in the legal field.

I don't think a "specialty" judge would do the trick, as that could be nothing more than a judge that took a course in computers. I think that if a case includes complicated electronic forensic evidence, a judge should understand and have some certiifications in the technology before ruling. What I saw is a judge that ruled willy nilly in favor of the prosecution from beginning to end. If the evidence was restricted to tire tracks, footprints, cigarette butts and circumstantial evidence, the case would never have been reduced to a questionable map of the dump site 12 hours prior to the murder on the computer of a computer science expert.
 
Important PSA:
Guys there were a bunch of broken quotes which in turn makes it look like posters said things they didn't and it was carried for a bit.
I did the best I could to determine who said what and place the quotes properly.
If I quoted you as saying something you didn't please let us know! we will fix it.

I too noticed that some of the posts I quote are missing one of the [/quote] remarks, so the authoring is messed up.
 
That is a misstatement of the testimony. We know he took it home. We know he didn't bring it back. What else is there? I'm quite certain that if they had an explanation for where the router went, the defense would have had someone to testify about it, just like they did with the ducks.

Once the prosecution has shown Brad "borrowed" it, they have proven he had access to it. The prosecution had an opportunity to bring up evidence to the contrary but didn't. The implication is clear, there was no evidence to contrary because Brad dumped the $11,000 router.

Hi calgary123. Precisely. Brad Cooper, and ONLY Brad Cooper was the last known person to have that router in his possession. Brad, and ONLY Brad ... knows exactly where he dumped it.

All this gobbledy-gook talk of a police frame-up is *ludicrous*. Maybe Kurtz is having attention withdrawal symptoms as the media-spotlight has all but moved on?

He's flogging a dead horse and I'm sure there's a smiley icon for that saying... but that's what it is now, IMOO: grandstanding and buffoonery to usurp the World Cup for such activity ... currently still pride of place in Mark Gerago's office :D
 
Very interesting interview!

So even though the Judge said that discussion forum people don't know what they're talking about, the defense said that the real time feedback was really important in terms of validating what they thought was happening. For example, if real time posters thought there was a bias in a ruling, they knew about it.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/noteworthy/video/9563382/#/vid9563382

:gasp:

Whaaaaat have I been reading???

That the def read here or any other real-time blog is the scariest thing I've read in the post-mortem of the trial, here at W/S!!

IF EVER I NEEDED A DEF ATTORNEY IT WOULD NOT BE KURTZ!

I'd need an attorney to use his own expert experience, that I'd be investing in, to defend me. *Especially* as he'd had over 2.5 years time to prove my case and get all the comments, tests, facts & info way ahead of live-blogs!. But .... wait for it .... to actually have the gaul to openly admit to amending last minute statements from the considerations of anonymous armchair-'Net-detectives ??

Oh Heaven - please help us!
 
I found it to be quite laughable that Kurtz brought up JP "lying to police in a murder investigation" and that anyone who "lies to police in a murder investigation, that interview should then become an interrogation." Really? What about your client Mr. Kurtz. When was he interrogated? Oh, yeah, NEVER, because he would never go to the police department to answer any questions, give a statement, or to assist in the investigation.

:floorlaugh: laughing *with* you, less.

Why? Because .... Kurtz's own client lied non stop for 6+ hours in his deposition. UNDER OATH.

But that's OK - because he's Big Bad, Sad Ole Brad. Baddest Man in the Whole Darn Town .... Badder than ole King Kong ..... and meaner than a junkyard dawg!

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:
 
:gasp:

Whaaaaat have I been reading???

That the def read here or any other real-time blog is the scariest thing I've read in the post-mortem of the trial, here at W/S!!

IF EVER I NEEDED A DEF ATTORNEY IT WOULD NOT BE KURTZ!

I'd need an attorney to use his own expert experience, that I'd be investing in, to defend me. *Especially* as he'd had over 2.5 years time to prove my case and get all the comments, tests, facts & info way ahead of live-blogs!. But .... wait for it .... to actually have the gaul to openly admit to amending last minute statements from the considerations of anonymous armchair-'Net-detectives ??

Oh Heaven - please help us!


Well, Annie, if you behave yourself, you probably won't need a def attorney. I am pretty confident that both sides were present at times or read the blogs in here. Don't you remember that the judge had the note about JW visiting our site? So, don't kid yourself, more and more they are checking out the public sentiment. The judge knew that. So like it or not, it is a valid comment. Yes, Heaven help us in this age of instant accessibility to public events that were not so public in years past. I ask again, what would have been wrong in allowing the defense to present their expert witness if the map was not the main piece of evidence that the prosecution had in this case? Why would a prosecutor stand on his head to keep us from hearing that if he thought that would not matter one little bit to a jury? We can't have it both ways. I realize there were other actions/inactions that smack at guilt to many here, but every time the map is brought up, all BDIers get very defensive. Why must some try to shoot down the messenger as well as the message? Just IMO

I am not unhappy with verdict, just less than happy with some of the events in that courtroom.
 
I'm hoping someone can help me with this. I truly, in my heart of hearts, cannot understand why half of a city has made a psychopath into some kind of posterboy-celebrity-martyr for such lofty causes as dad's rights and the soundness of the entire American justice and law enforcement system. It just boggles my mind. I have read and read to try and understand some of the viewpoints, and I might as well be reading Chinese. If you were going to pick a poster boy for such lofty concepts, wouldn't you pick someone who wasn't a BC? Who didn't evidence the traits of a psychopath? Who did evidence some concern for a missing wife and later two motherless children? Who didn't lie and change his story? Who didn't require the entire free world to be involved in conspiracy in order to make him somehow innocent?

I'm not baffled at those who want to see him have a fair trial. Everyone should have a fair trial. I'm baffled at those who have put him on a pedestal and made a psychopath a symbol for good.

One question: is there any way to know the Innocence Project's stance on this trial? Whether they will further involve themselves or walk away? Walking away from it would be a pretty strong indictment, wouldn't it?

Let see if I can help. First, I think many of you would surprised if you read the after verdict thread at GOLO. In the past they have had times when personal attacks flying in all directions, that on a site that screens comments before allowing their inclusion. Most people were shocked that the evidence could supported a finding of G BYaRD and were very angry with the judge not allowing GM to testify because the State would be adversely affected. This site has had its own moments when high emotions overwhelmed good judgment, disagreements devolved into personal attacks, then TOs. I would expect that a NG verdict would have been devastating for many of you who have been certain BDI from the beginning.

(BTW This is the first site for me where TOs are discussed and joked about, implying that they are fairly ordinary occurrences. I can understand the impact cases like these can have. Does this happen at other sites that discuss these cases?)


(I don't think it llkely that BC is a psychopath as generally defined, nor one of the diagnoses often associated with it, and psychopathy is not itself a diagnosis.)

From a day or two after NC went missing until the trial began, almost all one heard on the news and around town was about how BC abused NC until he finally killed her, about how he controlled her and kept her in constant fear, would not give her enough money to feed herself and the children. NC had found out about his affair, that was more than she could take, but she was trapped with no money, no passport, no way to leave before it was too late.

This was the first major televised trial since the SBI scandal, the wrongful convictions overturned , the Duke lacrosse case, and lot more. Unlike in the past, this time people were paying close attention to the process, the judge and his rulings, the police testimony, etc. When the trial began, the vast majority thought he was either guilty or probably guilty.

The testimony of DD, CD, and JA got everyone's attention. More hearsay, more gossip than anyone could remember before. The picture it painted of NC, her friends, her marriage, her abuse, ... was shockingly different than the one most people had a week earlier; and these were the prosecution witnesses! People really started to pay attention now.

Now came about two weeks of forensic and police testimony ending with JY. It seemed an unending series of "this looks like something important", "never mind", "no followup", or "accidents" that seemed to lead nowhere and only raised more questions about the CPD. Then came a group of friends, starting with HP. Much of the public, online and in person, was going "OMG! What is it with these people? Why are the prosecutors wasting everyone's time; don't they have any real evidence?"

Yes there is. See this mica and these bugs. Then KL, her other testimony overshadowed by the bombshell regarding the man with NC at the wedding. After AS the next day, four weeks into the trial, the testimony portrayed NC as emotionally abusive towards BC, no physical abuse by BC or NC, and the only controlling behavior seemed divorce related: using a second mortgage to pay off and close their credit card accounts; putting NC on an allowance, and effectively putting him on a much smaller one; the monitoring of emails, or at least archiving them as possible evidence in divorce or custody hearings; and the passport issues.

None of this made BC look like a hero, but it is very much for people with financial problems, marriage problems, and preparing for separation and divorce. During this period, BC appeared to act in ways consistent with someone who stupidly had an affair which, when finally being forced to admit to it, had destroyed his marriage. It was his fault. NC and the children would move to Canada, etc.

AS changed all that. Her extremely aggressive, confrontational style was the last thing B and N needed. While the initial draft agreement was so over the top that no one would ever sign it, once it is has poisoned the well it is hard to get back to a mode of being nice and playing fair. If NC had taken that $7,500 and used part of it for a mediator/facilitator-style attorney and the rest for moving & living expenses, the likely outcomes would have been better than the best from the course she took. There are no winners in a divorce particularly with children involved (except the attorneys).

Some Background (for those who might not already know):

AS is the former law partner of Gov. Perdue's ex-husband, now deceased. She served several terms as a district court judge, and is now with one of the top, most politically connected law firms in NC. Judge DS worked under her at the same firm before becoming a judge.

The majority of the attorneys involved this are UNC Law, most of the others from Campbell or NCCU.

I have no personal experience with AS, but by reputation she reminds me of other UNC Law grads of that period in family law who would be a strong advocate if what you needed was pit bull on angel dust.

Anyway, the father's rights groups in Wake County have had a lot of experience with AS and DS, and for many men over there the draft separation agreement was like waving a red flag in front of them.

Through the desposition and the testimony by Det D, as each part of the State's case was introduced, the defense on cross seemed to neutralize it. When Det D admitted there was evidence the call was spoofed, only the Google Maps search remained to anchor the prosecution's case.

Since the testimony about the Google maps was blacked out, there was a lot more people watching when JW was on the stand. Many were outraged that JW was blocked from discussing the contents of BC's disk because he was not a forensic expert. A bit like not allowing an expert in a medical specialty from discussing the autopsy results.

When the judge then denied a dding GM as a substitute forensic expert because his name was not on the witness list and the State would be adversely affected, it se emed unfair in the extreme especially after weeks of hearing gossip. The prosecutors appeared more interested in winning than in honoring their special obligations under NC law.

The cellphone expert had testified that the erasure was not an accident, or even two, which CPD covered up, lied about it under oath, and did not disclose it until it was too late to request the most-detailed logs from AT&T as a partial replacement. With the arrival of the ducks, the defense seemed to have reasonable doubt with everything except the search. The testimony as an Offer of Proof by GM (not heard by the jurors) was enough for reasonable doubt for much of the public.

That is my explanation for the responses you see at GOLO and elsewhere.


Some additional observations:

We need to find a better set of terms for discussing dv and abuse. When most people heard BC described as abusive and controlling, they thought of the stereotype with many episodes, needing medical treatment, maybe LE, and with many victims feeling shame and humiliation, usually hiding it from outsiders.

When NC's friends testified to the details of what had been thought abusive and controlling, because it was so different from what those terms usually describe, the witnesses lost a lot of their credibility. The danger posed by a spouse or SO with no prior incidents of physical violence is still quite real and about half the victims are completely unaware of any danger.
 
CrimeAddict said:
I am listening to it now, he really bugs me with this planting of the google maps, its such a joke. The dude needs a vacation and to take a break from this, he is starting to act like he may lose it. He totally believes Brad is innocent, I feel bad for him that he is convinced. The trial is over but his blah blah blah keeps on going like the energizer bunny. He has to be tired! LOLYou really confuse me with this comment.

.... had this response:

Are you saying you have more information than Kurtz and the experts about the computer and the google maps? I find no humor in a man getting sent to prison for life, away from his children if there is a possibility of him being innocent.

No, CrimeAddict did not ... say he/she has more information. Your comment flies in the face of Kurtz who takes "bloggers" word for anything judging by his stunning admissions that he makes last-minute changes to his rebuttals/court statements according to real-time bloggers! So why is it wrong for a blogger to comment now?

TOO TRUE - I echo your sentiments: a man's life was at stake here and yet Kurtz, after 2 and a half years ... resorts to blogger updates ... in REAL TIME ... inside a court of law? Jaw-dropping admissions. That act should be classed as inept, ineffective and insufficient counsel in my bok. Unless it's a "clever" ploy to have Brad's counsel deemed unfair in the appeals.

Shuddering, shivering and shaking in me timbers!

I repeat: Heaven help us!
 
.... had this response:



No, CrimeAddict did not ... say he/she has more information. Your comment flies in the face of Kurtz who takes "bloggers" word for anything judging by his stunning admissions that he makes last-minute changes to his rebuttals/court statements according to real-time bloggers! So why is it wrong for a blogger to comment now?

TOO TRUE - I echo your sentiments: a man's life was at stake here and yet Kurtz, after 2 and a half years ... resorts to blogger updates ... in REAL TIME ... inside a court of law? Jaw-dropping admissions. That act should be classed as inept, ineffective and insufficient counsel in my bok. Unless it's a "clever" ploy to have Brad's counsel deemed unfair in the appeals.

Shuddering, shivering and shaking in me timbers!

I repeat: Heaven help us!

I think it possible both sides use bloggers to make some adjustments. That shockingly goes both ways. Why I heard WS posters mention their involvement in trials before. Can't have it both ways. I doubt Kurtz used this significantly if he only read 20 or so bloggers. Again read my other post, and please read UNC70. I believe he sums up public outrage better than anyone else.
 
Well, Annie, if you behave yourself, you probably won't need a def attorney. I am pretty confident that both sides were present at times or read the blogs in here. Don't you remember that the judge had the note about JW visiting our site?

I am not unhappy with verdict, just less than happy with some of the events in that courtroom.

Hey Cody - snipped for space.

There's a *major* difference when a judge bans electronic communication devices in his courtroom and yes, he was aware of JW visiting W/S -----> to a def atty RELYING on real-time blog updates .... AND AMENDING HIS STATEMENTS ACCORDINGLY.

What was he doing with his $85 p/hr as RPD so kindly pointed out for the last 30 plus months? That's diabolical, in my opinion. Absolutely amazing and yet Kurtz must be so happy with it - he didn't realize how his words translated. I'd freak out if that were my atty. That's like admitting he wasn't up to speed, was panicking, was dropping the ball - desperation at it's worst; that he would LITERALLY clutch at any teensie straw - even if it was an anon comment off an Internet blog. I am really gobsmacked at this info.

Utterly stunned.

And .... everyone up in arms about his expert denied the right to testify? Well - that was ANOTHER late-night straw Kurtz clutched because his witness (JW) was, like it or lump it, not appropriately qualified. So last minute brings in a.n.other? All of this needed to have been sorted out and approved on both sides in pre-trial discovery.

Kurtz makes a total mockery of his qualifications, know-how and management in the world of defense attorneys, IMO.......of course and as always, it's my opinion only.
 
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