The wait for closing arguments discussion thread

[daisy.faithfull]

OMG! I missed today's court, thank you so much everyone for posting what went down! I'm so greatful everyone is here, I haven't read much of the trial thread for today, but I'm just so stunned by the defence. I thought for sure that they would try to attack LE or the science...

The defence still has to close but already I'm a mess like how I get when both sides have rested. My nerves are just all over the place. And to tell you the truth I have a difficult being at peace even with guilty verdicts.

I'm so sorry if this has being asked and answered, but why did the defence not give an opening argument. I know that their closing is next, but wouldn't they want to use every oppuntunity to get their side of the story out there to the jury?

OMG, I can't believe this at all. Thank you everybody, sometimes this **** gets so overwhelming.

And why is websleuths running so slow, on today of all days. It makes it hard to go through the threads. When the Crown and the defence have given their closing remarks will be allowed to have a poll about what the verdict is/how we would vote if we were on the jury? And then the press will be allowed to discuss stuff that was under the publication ban once the jury goes into deliberations, right?

 

[roseofsharon]

Pretty sure not.

McClintic said she did not know where McDonald lived and did not see Tori Stafford walking her Shih Tzu dog [via Twitter]
Thursday March 22, 2012 4:03 RaffertyLFP
4:05

Twitter
RaffertyLFP:
Derstine suggests that neighborhood kids would have interest in her Shih Tzu dog [via Twitter]
Thursday March 22, 2012 4:05 RaffertyLFP
4:06

Twitter
RaffertyLFP:
McClintic again denies knowing Tori and her dog. Said she picked her up at schoolyard because she was the only kid alone

We know TLM lies! MOO

 

[Heliotrope]

Thanks. On TLM knowing Tori, I saw this, and bbm I do believe she knew Tori JMO ONLY:


In a clearer and more coherent voice than on her first day of testimony on Tuesday, McClintic told the court Rafferty had also "instructed" her on an alibi if the police accused her of being the woman in a white jacket who was last seen walking with Tori outside the school. In one scenario, she was to tell the police the two went window-shopping in Oakville, Ont., and visited a Fred Astaire dance studio because Rafferty had been interested in taking lessons.


In another, she was to admit that she didn't know Tori but had met her on a previous occasion with her dog. She said she was told to tell police that day she ran into the blond-haired girl and walked with her but parted ways shortly after. In the third scenario, she was to say the two picked up the girl but dropped her off in a green sedan.


http://www.canada.com/news/Tori+Sta...take+fall+everything+video/6300744/story.html
and re street proofing etc and BBM I do believe both RS and TM talked to Tori about strangers and warned her JMO ONLY:


McDonald told court she had no knowledge of Tori ever having met McClintic previously. The girl had been street-proofed, cautioned not to go off with strangers. But McClintic was not a complete stranger to McDonald

http://www.thespec.com/news/staffor...donald-no-mother-of-the-year-to-tori-stafford

What you bolded wasn't what she said, it's what she said she was coached to say, just to be clear. AFAIK, no evidence whatsoever was produced to show a link between the two. If ever there was an opportunity, it was today and it didn't happen.

 

[matou]

So not only is TLM a brazen kidnapper, she had enough nerve to enter the school, but she even went in the entrance beside the school offices!!!!

School had been let out, but TLM had no fear with regards to faculty being in and around the corridors, classrooms, and offices or themselves leaving for the day using the same door.

It is too far fetched to imagine as soon as she entered the school, there was TS and going on the assumption that each didn't know the other, she approached a child and had her talked in to going with her just like that.

Did the Grandmother witness testify today that she even heard conversation between TLM and TS regarding going to see puppies??? and if so, how, I didn't think the Grandmother left her vehicle.

MOO

I think she said Tori was talking a mile a minute. I don't know how she could know that. In the CASS video, it's hard to tell if Tori is talking with TLM. JMO

 

[flipflop]

"We can't keep her and we can't take her back".

It is MY OPINION ONLY that this is one of several statements TLM attributed to MTR where she reversed who the speaker actually was. Another one was “You're in it just as far as I am”. I believe that it was TLM who said both of these statements to MTR, and not the other way around.

Both TLM and MTR have told many, many lies. Some can be proved and some never will be, as there are only two remaining witnesses to these conversations.

MOO!

MOO...I have pondered these 2 statements as well, flipping back and forth on who said them....but then I thought - does it really matter who said what. They both are guilty of taking her away from Woodstock. They are both guilty of her murder. They both are equally guilty!!! MOO

 

[Flowercb]

Is anyone else having problems with refreshing? Very slow tonight. I couldn't get onto the site for the longest time also.

 

[Flossie JMO]

What you bolded wasn't what she said, it's what she said she was coached to say, just to be clear. AFAIK, no evidence whatsoever was produced to show a link between the two. If ever there was an opportunity, it was today and it didn't happen.

Thanks, yes I did realize that. As I posted I believe they did know each other. JMO ONLY

 

[Heliotrope]

We know TLM lies! MOO

I didn't say she didn't lie. I've previously posted that I think she did lie to make herself look less bad, just like most people do when they're caught doing something bad and feel shame. I said she didn't testify that she knew her.

It's subtle, I know.

 

[Flossie JMO]

What you bolded wasn't what she said, it's what she said she was coached to say, just to be clear. AFAIK, no evidence whatsoever was produced to show a link between the two. If ever there was an opportunity, it was today and it didn't happen.

Thanks, yes I did realize that. I disagree on what the alleged evidence shows, JMO ONLY. As I posted I believe they did know each other. JMO ONLY

 

[flipflop]

Is anyone else having problems with refreshing? Very slow tonight. I couldn't get onto the site for the longest time also.

Same here, I thought it was my computer, but other sites I have no problem.

 

[JayFriend]

Prosecutors have at least a couple of hundred case files at any time and defence lawyers probably have their hands full too ... so it makes sense that court starts at 10 (even though the work day starts at about 7:15) and there are breaks in the trial ... life and work goes on around trial schedules. Judges also have schedules to follow and other cases to address. It's certainly not a situation where taxpayers are footing the bill while officers of the court are sleeping in and taking four day weekends.

I remember just last week, maybe the Monday there was no court, Judge Heeney was at the Woodstock courthouse on another matter.

 

[fats]

Could someone please explain what difference it makes, whether TLM knew TS or if TLM entered the school or not, as it pertains to MR's guilt.

Derstine has already stated he was there. So, if Derstine can make the jury believe TS was being babysat, it would throw out enough doubt to the jury that he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, was a really great guy to protect TLM and help her clean up her horrific crime.

Hopefully, London did not find another 12 people who think the world is flat. (Sue Moss, CA Trial).

MOO

However this witness relays a detail that VS could have been a target. Since VS was murdered and JMO MR and TLM acted TOGETHER the verdict shouldn't change---should be GUILTY . Could the actual abduction have been a kidnapping for a drug debt, MR beiing the dealer, TLM being the distributor of the drugs since JG/TM did buy from CM/TLM? DOes not change the outcome of the crime but there could have been a mixed but twisted motive??? TLM withheld some information of how the kidnapping went down?

 

[Flossie JMO]

We know TLM lies! MOO

Hi there, yes indeed JMO ONLY. ITA

Does anyone have a list of the lies from TLM that we could compare to testimony in this trial as her testimony and credibility is crucial IMO. And with the list, possibly reasons why one would think she lied. Also possible lies and reasons why she may have allegedly been lying? TIA

 

[Flossie JMO]

However this witness relays a detail that VS could have been a target. Since VS was murdered and JMO MR and TLM acted TOGETHER the verdict shouldn't change---should be GUILTY . Could the actual abduction have been a kidnapping for a drug debt, MR beiing the dealer, TLM being the distributor of the drugs since JG/TM did buy from CM/TLM? DOes not change the outcome of the crime but there could have been a mixed but twisted motive??? TLM withheld some information of how the kidnapping went down?[/QUOTE]

You could be right.

JMO, and BBM, there are some parts in your post that JMO ONLY I think may apply.

 

[JayFriend]

Prosecutors have at least a couple of hundred case files at any time and defence lawyers probably have their hands full too ... so it makes sense that court starts at 10 (even though the work day starts at about 7:15) and there are breaks in the trial ... life and work goes on around trial schedules. Judges also have schedules to follow and other cases to address. It's certainly not a situation where taxpayers are footing the bill while officers of the court are sleeping in and taking four day weekends.

I remember just last week, maybe the Monday there was no court, Judge Heeney was at the Woodstock courthouse on another matter.

 

[JayFriend]

Does anyone know if Rafferty's mom was in the court today since she didn't have to testify?

I wonder if she has washed her hands of her son. MOO

That question has been asked of the twittering reporters each day of the trial and the answer has always been "no, according to Rafferty's lawyer".

 

[gardenia]

If TLM knew TM (from their meeting at CM's house) ... then she also could have known that VS was TM's daughter. TLM may have seen them together - walking dogs, walking to & from school, driving around town. Seems possible (likely!).

From today's testimony it seemed that there was some degree of familiarity between TLM and VS.

SO ... "IF" MR had asked for a young girl to assault, WHY would TLM choose someone she knew, whose mother she knew, and most importantly someone who could identify her?

JMO

 

[matou]

Derstine didn't even defend his own client today, he only deflected to MR's partner in crime. This means nothing to his defense at all. So what? MR placed a little girl in his car with-no-back-seat, or wait.....did it have a back seat? Did he feed this little girl at supper hour anything at all? How rude not to help feed a little girl who was being babysat by his good friend. He had extra money he took out from the ATM. I even think Home Depot sells food via some vendors at some of their stores. JMO

 

[matou]

Christie Blatchford: Michael Rafferty defence takes last shot at raising reasonable doubt

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...-takes-last-shot-at-raising-reasonable-doubt/

 

[roseofsharon]

Hi there, yes indeed JMO ONLY. ITA

Does anyone have a list of the lies from TLM that we could compare to testimony in this trial as her testimony and credibility is crucial IMO. And with the list, possibly reasons why one would think she lied. Also possible lies and reasons why she may have allegedly been lying? TIA

I don't have a list Flossie, but here are a couple ...

- paraphrasing: TLM stated no way in hell was that her in the video surveillance of OSPS

- TLM said MR murdered TS, but then said she was the actual murderer

However, both TLM and MR are liars, but IMO she told the truth regarding the sexual assault.



moo