Theories discussion: What could have happened to Haleigh ? #6

[Whisperer]

Be careful reading the wording on the firing. PDM did not say it was two months, they were told by rc or his attorney that it was two months. LE also said they had security at the plant for both shifts due to rc's emotional state. If that doesn't tell us that rc threatened them, we have to be naive, to say the least. That means that PDM call the police because of fear.

I recently posted an article from rc's attorney that rc was to return the following week after Haleigh. That is protocol, I am sure. RC thinks he is special and was notified at a later date (maybe after he decided he might want to go back) that the position is no longer there.

 

[Lanie]

Maybe somebody would like to discuss why RC is outright lying in the search for his daughter. There is no answer except this is all an inside job. On this tape, he tells NG that he has no idea on how things got miscommunicated about the sleeping arrangements of Misty and the children:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/16/ng.01.html

on March 13, he told NG that all the children were sleeping in the same bed.

HE is the one that caused the miscommunication and NG should have been aware of it.
When confronted with the information that misty told LE (in police report) that they were all in the same bed, he says, "'Well, I don't know, mz nancy, I wasn't there when she talked to the police" ...WTH???

This was a week after his precious daughter goes missing and he doesn't know what misty said...and he marries her...come on now people. We have a problem here. Is there any doubt that he and TN are covering.

How anyone could defend rc when he is lying in a national search for his daughter is beyond me. These type of things just reaffirms that he is into this up to his eyeballs.

When misty runs away last Oct. GMA Sykes defends her saying everyone has rifts. She welcomed misty back into her home. She had them get married at her home. I have to wonder why I even get doubt occassionally that rc may not have been involved..umph!!

BBM

Lol, let me see if I can explain. I am normally very opinionated, and can normally see things from several different sides. After all this time, I am still clueless on what has happened to Haleigh. Before I get a theory even half-formed, I'm already poking holes in it.

Was Ron involved? Got me. I lean towards yes, but only because it seems the lesser of this makes no sense to me.

 

[pip]

BBM

Lol, let me see if I can explain. I am normally very opinionated, and can normally see things from several different sides. After all this time, I am still clueless on what has happened to Haleigh. Before I get a theory even half-formed, I'm already poking holes in it.

Was Ron involved? Got me. I lean towards yes, but only because it seems the lesser of this makes no sense to me.

That's why I finally came to the conclusion that I know he definetely was involved, but I believe he was at work, so it had to have happened directly because of something he did.

 

[Whisperer]

There is NO WAY to rule out Ron Cummings with the information we have right now.

 

[Whisperer]

There is no good reason to lie during the search for your own daughter...NONE!

 

[pip]

There is no good reason to lie during the search for your own daughter...NONE!

Your right, he is most definetely involved somehow.

 

[GhstTrkn]

Maybe somebody would like to discuss why RC is outright lying in the search for his daughter. There is no answer except this is all an inside job. On this tape, he tells NG that he has no idea on how things got miscommunicated about the sleeping arrangements of Misty and the children:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/16/ng.01.html

on March 13, he told NG that all the children were sleeping in the same bed.

HE is the one that caused the miscommunication and NG should have been aware of it.
When confronted with the information that misty told LE (in police report) that they were all in the same bed, he says, "'Well, I don't know, mz nancy, I wasn't there when she talked to the police" ...WTH???

This was a week after his precious daughter goes missing and he doesn't know what misty said...and he marries her...come on now people. We have a problem here. Is there any doubt that he and TN are covering.

How anyone could defend rc when he is lying in a national search for his daughter is beyond me. These type of things just reaffirms that he is into this up to his eyeballs.

When misty runs away last Oct. GMA Sykes defends her saying everyone has rifts. She welcomed misty back into her home. She had them get married at her home. I have to wonder why I even get doubt occassionally that rc may not have been involved..umph!!

I totally get that he is a liar. I have no doubt at all about that. I would more than likely be leaning towards him having something to do with HC's disappearance if it weren't for the whole work alibi thing (that no one has come out and said that he left during his shift or wasn't there the whole time and LE seems to believe this as well) and the fact that I really believe that if he did have something to do with it that MC would have started singing like a bird by now considering she can't stand being in jail. One reason I don't want to just go spouting off that he did it or that he had something to do with it is because I really believe that this beautiful little girl is no longer of this world and I really hope WHOEVER did it gets the death penalty. To me the death penalty means there is NO DOUBT at all. I do have doubts because of these 2 points mainly. OT....Look, I'm really not defending him. I had a friend that was murdered in Grandview, TX In July of 1993 (she was originally from a small town in Indiana but moved to Grandview to pursue a dream) ...she was stabbed 66 times...she was only 19.... and her cousin was stabbed around 40 times. The man that was supposed to have murdered them was executed February 12, 2004. (Those interested can do a search on google) Even though I know in my heart that this man did what he was accused of, it still bothers me that he was executed because some of the case files indicate that there is a VERY, VERY, VERY slight possibility that he didn't do it. I know this may sound really silly to most of you but I believe if the state is going to execute a person then there has to be NO DOUBT at all...execution is not something that can be taken back if there are mistakes made. I really do want whoever was involved with (what I believe to be the death of) HC to pay with their life. This was an innocent little girl who had her whole life ahead of her. Sorry for ranting...just wanted to make my point.

 

[Lanie]

I totally get that he is a liar. I have no doubt at all about that. I would more than likely be leaning towards him having something to do with HC's disappearance if it weren't for the whole work alibi thing (that no one has come out and said that he left during his shift or wasn't there the whole time and LE seems to believe this as well) and the fact that I really believe that if he did have something to do with it that MC would have started singing like a bird by now considering she can't stand being in jail. One reason I don't want to just go spouting off that he did it or that he had something to do with it is because I really believe that this beautiful little girl is no longer of this world and I really hope WHOEVER did it gets the death penalty. To me the death penalty means there is NO DOUBT at all. I do have doubts because of these 2 points mainly. OT....Look, I'm really not defending him. I had a friend that was murdered in Grandview, TX In July of 1993 (she was originally from a small town in Indiana but moved to Grandview to pursue a dream) ...she was stabbed 66 times...she was only 19.... and her cousin was stabbed around 40 times. The man that was supposed to have murdered them was executed February 12, 2004. (Those interested can do a search on google) Even though I know in my heart that this man did what he was accused of, it still bothers me that he was executed because some of the case files indicate that there is a VERY, VERY, VERY slight possibility that he didn't do it. I know this may sound really silly to most of you but I believe if the state is going to execute a person then there has to be NO DOUBT at all...execution is not something that can be taken back if there are mistakes made. I really do want whoever was involved with (what I believe to be the death of) HC to pay with their life. This was an innocent little girl who had her whole life ahead of her. Sorry for ranting...just wanted to make my point.

Unfortunately, I, too, do not believe Haleigh is still with us.

I'm with you on Ron being at work; I believe he was, because after all this time there has been NO INFORMATION to the contrary.

So, if I take that as fact, I have to ask myself how was he involved? I believe, IMO, MOO, etc. etc. Ron loved his daughter. If he did something before work, I find it hard to fathom he was able to pull off an entire shift with no one the wiser, as he seems very volatile. If something happened while he was at work that he bears some responsibility for, and he was notified at work, same thing. If above scenario, and he found out when he got off work, I don't see him being able to 1) rationalize in the moment he had any responsibility at all 2) maintain enough calm to not at least attempt to kill MC, who was the caregiver while he was at work and/or 3) be able to almost immediately participate in the cover-up.

Even though I have a lot more thoughts on this, I'll be kind and keep it brief, because I could ramble on for some time. I have no shortage of questions for the 'how was he not involved' side, too. ???

 

[GhstTrkn]

Unfortunately, I, too, do not believe Haleigh is still with us.

I'm with you on Ron being at work; I believe he was, because after all this time there has been NO INFORMATION to the contrary.

So, if I take that as fact, I have to ask myself how was he involved? I believe, IMO, MOO, etc. etc. Ron loved his daughter. If he did something before work, I find it hard to fathom he was able to pull off an entire shift with no one the wiser, as he seems very volatile. If something happened while he was at work that he bears some responsibility for, and he was notified at work, same thing. If above scenario, and he found out when he got off work, I don't see him being able to 1) rationalize in the moment he had any responsibility at all 2) maintain enough calm to not at least attempt to kill MC, who was the caregiver while he was at work and/or 3) be able to almost immediately participate in the cover-up.

Even though I have a lot more thoughts on this, I'll be kind and keep it brief, because I could ramble on for some time. I have no shortage of questions for the 'how was he not involved' side, too. ???

I totally agree. I just can't imagine how a father (even a HORRIBLE father) can be involved in his own daughter's disappearance and/or death (in any way) and make it through a whole shift without someone....even after the fact saying....hey now I know why this guy acted like he did at work on that day. Yes, we all know that he's a jerk, we all now that he's immature (among other things that I have heard, one thing that I think of when I think about MC/RC and immaturity is all of the phone calls that were reported on the night that HC came up missing and MC turning the phone off... though IMO I have more reason to believe that MC turned the phone off because of what was going on at home and not just because she was mad at RC....reminds me of something a boyfriend/girlfriend would do in highschool when they are in an argument), and we all know that he's a liar. I just want to make an apology to everyone about me going on about the DP and my friend...it's just that this case really really gets to me (as it does to everyone else) and I really get passionate about it when I start reading everything. I realize this case is nowhere near talking about the DP but hopefully it's not as far off as I fear it is.

 

[GhstTrkn]

Be careful reading the wording on the firing. PDM did not say it was two months, they were told by rc or his attorney that it was two months. LE also said they had security at the plant for both shifts due to rc's emotional state. If that doesn't tell us that rc threatened them, we have to be naive, to say the least. That means that PDM call the police because of fear.

I recently posted an article from rc's attorney that rc was to return the following week after Haleigh. That is protocol, I am sure. RC thinks he is special and was notified at a later date (maybe after he decided he might want to go back) that the position is no longer there.

This is where I read about when and why he was fired

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-04-15/story/haleigh_cummings_father_loses_his_job

not to be believed? I really don't know...that's why i'm asking. I haven't read enough docs and articles to know who is credible and who is not. this is a quote from the first paragraph in the article
"After waiting two months to hear from the father of still missing 5-year-old Putnam County kindergartner Haleigh Cummings, the Palatka plant where he worked has fired him for abandoning the job, the company said."

 

[dodie20]

I totally get that he is a liar. I have no doubt at all about that. I would more than likely be leaning towards him having something to do with HC's disappearance if it weren't for the whole work alibi thing (that no one has come out and said that he left during his shift or wasn't there the whole time and LE seems to believe this as well) and the fact that I really believe that if he did have something to do with it that MC would have started singing like a bird by now considering she can't stand being in jail. One reason I don't want to just go spouting off that he did it or that he had something to do with it is because I really believe that this beautiful little girl is no longer of this world and I really hope WHOEVER did it gets the death penalty. To me the death penalty means there is NO DOUBT at all. I do have doubts because of these 2 points mainly. OT....Look, I'm really not defending him. I had a friend that was murdered in Grandview, TX In July of 1993 (she was originally from a small town in Indiana but moved to Grandview to pursue a dream) ...she was stabbed 66 times...she was only 19.... and her cousin was stabbed around 40 times. The man that was supposed to have murdered them was executed February 12, 2004. (Those interested can do a search on google) Even though I know in my heart that this man did what he was accused of, it still bothers me that he was executed because some of the case files indicate that there is a VERY, VERY, VERY slight possibility that he didn't do it. I know this may sound really silly to most of you but I believe if the state is going to execute a person then there has to be NO DOUBT at all...execution is not something that can be taken back if there are mistakes made. I really do want whoever was involved with (what I believe to be the death of) HC to pay with their life. This was an innocent little girl who had her whole life ahead of her. Sorry for ranting...just wanted to make my point.

O.K., maybe Ron was @ work, but he sure was on the phone an awful lot. Who's to say that he wasn't barking out orders? & I agree with you on the death penalty-no room for even 1% of doubt. & I think the dp is so biassed, & it isn't even legal in every state, so I really lean towards not having one @ all. & then I think of 'people' like John Huey, & can't imagine not killing them-monsters that are better off dead. But as for this case? & I know I'm gonna be ridiculed for this, but I don't think I'll want the death penalty. If Ron was involved, I think he loved Haleigh & didn't intend for her to wind up dead, & if Misty was responsible? well, she should never have been left in charge in the 1st place. That falls on Teresa, imo. just a messed up kid trying to play house. I guess I'll be the maddest, if it was Tommy, because there is no excuse of family dynamics coming into play, & absolutely no reason for him to lash out or take his anger out on her. If he did it, I won't have much room for compassion. But, I've followed this case from the beginning, & I feel like I know these people, so I'd have a hard time with the death penalty. Thinking of that actually makes me kind of queasy.

 

[dodie20]

& to finish my thought...I'd be o.k. with some answers, a body for Crystal to bury, & a life sentence. I can't speak for the family, but Marie did show compassion towards Misty in the anniversary article & Crystal was with Ron for a long time, & he's family-like it or not, so I can only imagine her mixed feelings. But if it was somebody else? There's not gonna be much room for understanding. my opinion only.

 

[Whisperer]

If rc was at work, what hours do you know he was there? Not one person has addressed this issue.

 

[Whisperer]

This is where I read about when and why he was fired

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-04-15/story/haleigh_cummings_father_loses_his_job

not to be believed? I really don't know...that's why i'm asking. I haven't read enough docs and articles to know who is credible and who is not. this is a quote from the first paragraph in the article
"After waiting two months to hear from the father of still missing 5-year-old Putnam County kindergartner Haleigh Cummings, the Palatka plant where he worked has fired him for abandoning the job, the company said."

And here is rc's attorney firing back at the jacksonville article you just posted

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/041609cummings_attorney_fires_back

It is a game they play. I found it curious that they threw in Crystal as a means to get him money instead of suing PDM (he didn't have a prayer to win) Attorneys, LE and the press all need to be read with scrutiny and a large box of salt.

 

[Whisperer]

I totally agree. I just can't imagine how a father (even a HORRIBLE father) can be involved in his own daughter's disappearance and/or death (in any way) and make it through a whole shift without someone....even after the fact saying....hey now I know why this guy acted like he did at work on that day. Yes, we all know that he's a jerk, we all now that he's immature (among other things that I have heard, one thing that I think of when I think about MC/RC and immaturity is all of the phone calls that were reported on the night that HC came up missing and MC turning the phone off... though IMO I have more reason to believe that MC turned the phone off because of what was going on at home and not just because she was mad at RC....reminds me of something a boyfriend/girlfriend would do in highschool when they are in an argument), and we all know that he's a liar. I just want to make an apology to everyone about me going on about the DP and my friend...it's just that this case really really gets to me (as it does to everyone else) and I really get passionate about it when I start reading everything. I realize this case is nowhere near talking about the DP but hopefully it's not as far off as I fear it is.

I understand what you are saying and I am very sorry for your loss. You have a very personal reason for your beliefs.

There is always a way to squeeze in a little doubt and our justice system knows this. The system has been changed from a "Shadow of a doubt" to "Reasonable Doubt". Some people think that any doubt is not tolerable and that is ok but they must state that if they were contemplating being a juror.

Reasonable doubt is a concept that few understand, imo. Sure most of us will have some doubts with these suspects but the question to ask is "Is it reasonable of me to assume because I have this doubt that the man is innocent?" Many times it is not. I am sure this is where the OJ jury went and they decided to use the term "Shadow of a doubt", knocking out all hope of a conviction. They were wrong...they may not have understood reasonable doubt and decided that if they had the slightest doubt, no matter how ridiculous (Columbian Necktie, etc) they would acquit...this is an eample of unreasonable doubt, and not valid imo.

 

[dodie20]

I've really thought about this, & I'm having a hard time believing they were all in cahoots together. In the beginning, Misty had no prob pointing her finger @ cousin Joe. She actually seemed relieved to have someone to blame. Her attitude was like-& this is just an opinion-that of somebody who had just found an out. Would she point the finger @ someone who could point their's right back? I don't think so. The same goes for Tommy. I don't think Misty would've run that risk. Would Misty help Ron? I think so. Would Ron help Misty? a tenative maybe. Would Teresa help Ron? most likely. Would Teresa help Misty? probably not. Would Ron help Tommy or the other guys? a resounding no. so that makes me think that either Misty acted alone, or got help from some unsuspected person, (Nay Nay? surely not), or Ron did something & had help from Misty & maybe Teresa, or Tommy did something & then got help from Timmy? Joe? IDK. I feel like Misty's in the dark, but those failed lie detctors, say otherwise. & I can't help myself, but I do think Tommy's involved. Would Ron trust him? maybe in a desperate attempt to hurry-if time was crunched, I think so. But, I honestly think if Tommy helped Ron, Misty was left in the dark, on that one. I don't remember Ron pointing fingers? Did he implicate Joe & Tommy? I remeber Teresa doing it. So, that makes me think that Teresa might have also been in the dark. So, from what I'm thinking, it was either Ron or Tommy. Tommy sounds angry @ Ron. Is that because he blames Ron for getting him into this mess? or because he's desperate to lay the blame on a likely candidate, to get the heat off of him? Shouldn't his obvious choice be Misty? If Tommy was responsible, I think Ron would've figured that out by now, & told LE what he knew. So, I guess I'm thinking Ron is responsible, with help from Tommy-but it must be major help-& Misty & Teresa being in the dark, on some of the details.

 

[4Jacy]

Is anyone thinking that maybe LC is helping LE in exchange for some type of immunity for info she previously withheld but has now shared? Several things are odd here. They seem to be protecting her.. she's not supposed to let the Croslins over, she won't let them babysit, she is withdrawing from Tommy, the detectives are at her house and she seems fine with that, she tells Tommy LE says this should be wrapped up in a few weeks. She also went to Michigan recently to visit Timmy and Chelsea? Do you think it was for a purpose? Like maybe she wore a wire for LE who were right outside and had "discussions" with them they thought were in private? (just like in the movies ) I found her trip to MI odd timing. I think something is brewing.

I have been "around" this theory, but did not formulate it as you have pip. I think it is an excellent theory. We have to know LC has not been immune to all that was going on around her. I don't get her. She reminds me of the 60's "flower child." She is sooo laid back. How could that be her demeanor with all this sh-t going on and falling down around her?

 

[GhstTrkn]

I understand what you are saying and I am very sorry for your loss. You have a very personal reason for your beliefs.

There is always a way to squeeze in a little doubt and our justice system knows this. The system has been changed from a "Shadow of a doubt" to "Reasonable Doubt". Some people think that any doubt is not tolerable and that is ok but they must state that if they were contemplating being a juror.

Reasonable doubt is a concept that few understand, imo. Sure most of us will have some doubts with these suspects but the question to ask is "Is it reasonable of me to assume because I have this doubt that the man is innocent?" Many times it is not. I am sure this is where the OJ jury went and they decided to use the term "Shadow of a doubt", knocking out all hope of a conviction. They were wrong...they may not have understood reasonable doubt and decided that if they had the slightest doubt, no matter how ridiculous (Columbian Necktie, etc) they would acquit...this is an eample of unreasonable doubt, and not valid imo.

I totally get and respect what you are saying. Just to let you know, I'm not saying that RC is innocent....I mean, I guess I have said that but I should have stated what I meant much clearer than what I did. I'm really just saying that for me, there is enough doubt thrown in to where I can't say he's guilty and feel good about that. Right now, I do lean more towards I believe he had nothing to do with it just because of the points I stated earlier. I also can't tell you the hours he worked...I have no clue. BUT if we assume that it's true what HC's great grandmother said about seeing her around 7 eating dinner on the porch then I would assume that he would be at work by then. Also believing that no one has come forward saying otherwise and police saying they are satisfied with his alibi, RC was at work all night and never left until his shift ended. I can't find anyone else that said they saw HC around that same time (7pm)...is there no one else or am I just not looking in the right spot? Please, if RC is involved in HC's disappearance then by all means, throw the biggest book you can find at him. I just can't see the evidence that puts him there when she went missing. One other thing, how can we be 100% positive that MC was even there when she went missing? I mean, i guess there is a possibility that she was out. I don't think she was at some party because I don't think that many people could keep their mouth shut through all of this if she was but how do we know that she was physically at the MH at that time and not out cruising (or whatever it is that teens do these days lol). From what I gather she was mad at RC so what if she just said... $#^! it and $#^! the kids, i'm outta here...returning home later to find Haleigh missing. Does anyone believe that her not being there is still a possibility?

 

[Crosby87]

Great post Blue. I never heard that Ronald was bullied by these three and that they did not consider him a good father. The biggest questions with this are:

1. You would have to be a certain type of person to remove a child from their home. You would have to care enough and I don't believe any of the three cared much beyond their drugs, booze and immediate needs. Tommy wasn't much of a role model himself as a father.

2. If they felt it was that important to remove Haleigh why didn't they also remove JR.

3. IF they did take Haleigh to place her in a better enviroment, who would have paid her way. She had to have meds, clothes, food. NIone of them were flush.

4. I doubt they had a much more of a shrug of the shoulders, poor little girl, type of feeling for Haleigh. These peeps are not heros. They can't rescue a little girl out of bad a situation, they are lucky to rescue their own azzs out of trouble.

ToCr would have become alarmed and emotionally upset when he learned Ron spanked his children. Tommy as we know did not allow his children to be spanked and if Tommy witnessed Ron using excessive force on HaLeigh and knew he instructed Misty to whip her when she misbehaved, this could be the reason Tommy intervened and separated HaLeigh from Ron. It sounds like Tommy has zero tolerance when it comes to spanking children and he was fond of HaLeigh so one would expect him to take action and remove HaLeigh who was too young to protect herself. A child's footprint in the woods was detected by LE which supports this theory. I don't believe Tommy or any of the Croslins motive for taking HaLeigh was to harm her, and I believe they loved her. Had anyone confronted Ron about the punishment he inflicted upon his daughter prior to her disappearance? If the van was used to transport HaLeigh out of the area, it’s possible Timmy, Joe, Chelsea and Misty were united in a plot to abduct HaLeigh. It is also possible Misty is not aware of their plot and wasn't involved. Did Chelsea drive HaLeigh out-of-town? Her story of going to bed shortly before she received a call about HaLeigh and didn’t know who took the van is unconvincing. A woman swore she saw a girl who strongly resembled HaLeigh in Massachusetts with a female who she later discovered was connected to the Croslin’s.

If this theory is correct, and HaLeigh is alive, why wouldn't the Croslin's reveal the truth and bring her home?

 

[GhstTrkn]

O.K., maybe Ron was @ work, but he sure was on the phone an awful lot. Who's to say that he wasn't barking out orders? & I agree with you on the death penalty-no room for even 1% of doubt. & I think the dp is so biassed, & it isn't even legal in every state, so I really lean towards not having one @ all. & then I think of 'people' like John Huey, & can't imagine not killing them-monsters that are better off dead. But as for this case? & I know I'm gonna be ridiculed for this, but I don't think I'll want the death penalty. If Ron was involved, I think he loved Haleigh & didn't intend for her to wind up dead, & if Misty was responsible? well, she should never have been left in charge in the 1st place. That falls on Teresa, imo. just a messed up kid trying to play house. I guess I'll be the maddest, if it was Tommy, because there is no excuse of family dynamics coming into play, & absolutely no reason for him to lash out or take his anger out on her. If he did it, I won't have much room for compassion. But, I've followed this case from the beginning, & I feel like I know these people, so I'd have a hard time with the death penalty. Thinking of that actually makes me kind of queasy.

But who would he have barked out orders to? I was under the impression that he never got in touch with anyone except for he had called her brother to go check on her (or that's what was said...and yes I know that could be a lie) since she wasn't answering her phone. Also, what reason would he have for ordering someone (over the phone) to kill his 5 year old daughter? (I only say kill because I do believe she was killed that night in that MH...I do not believe she was abducted at all). The way you said "barking out orders" almost sounds like he put a hit out on his own 5 year old child....does that make sense?