Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[Devon]

It is precisely those who rest upon facts and are unwilling to expound on them, to fictionalize and fill in the missing gaps by "making up" anything who (having not been there personally to witness firsthand precisely whatever "this" was) prefer instead to reserve judgment until knowing the totality of evidence. Furthermore, that isn't to say those unwilling to hang her for murder 1 are incapable of believing KC guilty of a host of other crimes, but rather that some of us just distinguish between crimes--and therefore may have already been convinced of KC eg having hindered an investigation, tampered w evidence, made false statements and even hidden her daughter's corpse in a cover-up--while yet to be convinced of premeditated malice or murder. Few would argue w the balance of charges, it is the precipitating event about which one or two of us have patiently reserved judgment. JMO

Text bolded by me.

My sentiments exactly, so that makes at least 3!

 

[gibby207]

Okay, here's my theory: KC chloroformed Caylee. I don't think to KILL her but the argument with her mother does breed suspect. I think she chloroformed her, duct taped her, so she could party that evening. I think she died the evening of the 15th or early 16th. I think GA may be confused about the details on the last night he saw them or lied. (I am doubting he lied to cover anything up because of his GJ testimony.) I think he was confused in details as it was 31 days...

Secondly, the chloroform was an obvious overdose and she MAY have put Caylee in the pool and called a bunch of people to SAY that she had drowned but no one answered her call. Now, there is where my theory fails in respect to the duct tape.

Even if she chloroformed Caylee, this isn't an "accident." It is considered a drug and overdosing your child on a drug, an banned and illegal one at that, is considered murder 1 in Florida. However, if they can't prove the chloroform because they only had skeletal remains, it may be murder 2. I can't WAIT for the trial and hope they have enough evidence to nail KC to murder 1.

 

[JWG]

I see no reason whatsoever to give KC the benefit of the doubt by promoting an accidental death/panicked cover up theory.

She is charged with first degree murder. Apparently, I have the same opinion as the investigators who have actually been in the same room with KC, talked to everyone involved by virtue of being unwitting witnesses and have seen ALL the evidence - not just what was released to the public.

Speculate until the cows come home, but the truth is much more ugly than the hopeful scenario of an accidental death. It was intentional murder, plain and simple.

Reading the interview with KC at Universal (Melich, Wells, Allen), I get the clear impression they believe an accident occurred and KC is afraid to fess-up. (evidence pages 84 to 96).

It does not appear as cut and dried as you claim.

 

[gibby207]

Reading the interview with KC at Universal (Melich, Wells, Allen), I get the clear impression they believe an accident occurred and KC is afraid to fess-up. (evidence pages 84 to 96).

It does not appear as cut and dried as you claim.

Yes, accident with chloroform. I mean, who's going to call your parents and say "oops, I accidentally chloroformed my child to death." She was "reaching" (blech) to find a way for her to look like she was the hero and tried to save her but no one would answer her call (prolly since it was after the "argument"). But, in my eyes and the law's eyes, accident with chloroform can only happen on YOURSELF, not on anyone else....

 

[JWG]

Yes, accident with chloroform. I mean, who's going to call your parents and say "oops, I accidentally chloroformed my child to death." She was "reaching" (blech) to find a way for her to look like she was the hero and tried to save her but no one would answer her call (prolly since it was after the "argument"). But, in my eyes and the law's eyes, accident with chloroform can only happen on YOURSELF, not on anyone else....

Right now, I see chloroform coming from all of the following three sources:

1. Chlorinated water from the pool in Caylee's lungs reacting with the organics in her body during the first three days of decomposition.

2. Pesticides used by CA/GA to kill maggots and flies in the trunk were manufactured with chloroform as a solvent.

3. Dry cleaning solution used by CA/GA to clean basketball-sized stain in trunk had chloroform as an ingredient.

IMHO, KC never used chloroform on Caylee.

 

[cocoamom]

I just had a thought and need some input from you folks please...

July here in FL is HOT HOT HOT. The inside of a closed car can get into the 130-160 degree range in the mid day in a very short time.

So the car is towed on June 30 and sat until July 15. Can maggots and/or their eggs/larvae withstand that kind of heat??? Even under a garbage bag, the heat it seems to me would absolutely COOK them!! There is just no way these things could live inside a completely closed up car over a 2 week period - let alone "flies"!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just thought about this - tells me that garbage bag and/or stain/maggots/flies wasn't in there that long - as a matter of fact, couldn't have been in there more than 1 day!!!

Am I crazy? I know, will probably be moved to the entomologist thread...

 

[Cerenity2u]

I just had a thought and need some input from you folks please...

July here in FL is HOT HOT HOT. The inside of a closed car can get into the 130-160 degree range in the mid day in a very short time.

So the car is towed on June 30 and sat until July 15. Can maggots and/or their eggs/larvae withstand that kind of heat??? Even under a garbage bag, the heat it seems to me would absolutely COOK them!! There is just no way these things could live inside a completely closed up car over a 2 week period - let alone "flies"!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just thought about this - tells me that garbage bag and/or stain/maggots/flies wasn't in there that long - as a matter of fact, couldn't have been in there more than 1 day!!!

Am I crazy? I know, will probably be moved to the entomologist thread...

Great question. I would also like to know if the insects, etc. would be able to live in a chloroform saturated environment, such as was found in the trunk of KC's car?

 

[gibby207]

Right now, I see chloroform coming from all of the following three sources:

1. Chlorinated water from the pool in Caylee's lungs reacting with the organics in her body during the first three days of decomposition.

2. Pesticides used by CA/GA to kill maggots and flies in the trunk were manufactured with chloroform as a solvent.

3. Dry cleaning solution used by CA/GA to clean basketball-sized stain in trunk had chloroform as an ingredient.

IMHO, KC never used chloroform on Caylee.

True, I see that...BUT! She researched how to make chloroform. I find that highly suspect....

 

[Rumpole]

Right now, I see chloroform coming from all of the following three sources:

1. Chlorinated water from the pool in Caylee's lungs reacting with the organics in her body during the first three days of decomposition.

2. Pesticides used by CA/GA to kill maggots and flies in the trunk were manufactured with chloroform as a solvent.

3. Dry cleaning solution used by CA/GA to clean basketball-sized stain in trunk had chloroform as an ingredient.

IMHO, KC never used chloroform on Caylee.

I would certainly not put much weight in the report of chloroform. YET
I am far from an expert, but know enough to be a nuisance and to question how a representative sample of trunk gases was taken, and exactly how that was analysed, and what the results were, both qualitative and quantitative.
There are several very similar carbon-chlorine solvents, and side reactions that produce those chemicals. For instance, a chlorine bleach used then other solvent based cleaners might well produce a range of chloromethane compounds.
The report may well answer all my questions and confirm CHLOROFORM, but we have not seen it yet.

 

[jqp54]

JWG, I agree with your theory of what happened.

Do you think Cindy and GA know?

I think she told them at some point. Maybe when she was out on bail.

 

[txsvicki]

It hasn't been confirmed that pesticide were sprayed in the car? I know LE took spray pump containers, but they could suspect that they were used in the death by spraying some inhalant in the trunk ( or even the sealed up played house) while Caylee was inside already unconscious. Casey did look up inhalant along with chloroform.

 

[RR0004]

Lately I've been thinking about the marathon phone conversation Casey had with TL on the night of the 15th-morning of the 16th. Who says she couldn't have been in the car with Caylee then? She may have stormed out of the house with Caylee in tow...so angry...no where to go, maybe even staying in the vicinity of the Anthony home. I can't shake this.

 

[Pink Panther]

Reading the interview with KC at Universal (Melich, Wells, Allen), I get the clear impression they believe an accident occurred and KC is afraid to fess-up. (evidence pages 84 to 96).

It does not appear as cut and dried as you claim.

Seems like a pretty straight forward angle and VERY FAIR ("out") for them to offer her before she signed her name on the bottom line...They did the best that they could do to offer her alternatives to a totally cockamany story that reaked of MURDER.

MOO

 

[Pink Panther]

Right now, I see chloroform coming from all of the following three sources:

1. Chlorinated water from the pool in Caylee's lungs reacting with the organics in her body during the first three days of decomposition.

2. Pesticides used by CA/GA to kill maggots and flies in the trunk were manufactured with chloroform as a solvent.

3. Dry cleaning solution used by CA/GA to clean basketball-sized stain in trunk had chloroform as an ingredient.

IMHO, KC never used chloroform on Caylee.

mmm...hmmm....You may be right. But we live in a country with over 250 MILLION people and LOTS of pools...Lots of drownings (unfortunately) and NOT a lot of discussion about those nasty CHLOROFORM pool chemicals! Ever heard of such a thing before this case?

Just asking...

 

[bessie]

I just had a thought and need some input from you folks please...

July here in FL is HOT HOT HOT. The inside of a closed car can get into the 130-160 degree range in the mid day in a very short time.

So the car is towed on June 30 and sat until July 15. Can maggots and/or their eggs/larvae withstand that kind of heat??? Even under a garbage bag, the heat it seems to me would absolutely COOK them!! There is just no way these things could live inside a completely closed up car over a 2 week period - let alone "flies"!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just thought about this - tells me that garbage bag and/or stain/maggots/flies wasn't in there that long - as a matter of fact, couldn't have been in there more than 1 day!!!

Am I crazy? I know, will probably be moved to the entomologist thread...

I'm certainly no entomologist. Ewwww...are you kidding? But if the critters can survive inside of refrigerators sitting in the sun, then I'd think they'd fare just fine in a car trunk which has more ventilation. Flies are like roaches in that they are extremely adaptable.

 

[bessie]

mmm...hmmm....You may be right. But we live in a country with over 250 MILLION people and LOTS of pools...Lots of drownings (unfortunately) and NOT a lot of discussion about those nasty CHLOROFORM pool chemicals! Ever heard of such a thing before this case?

Just asking...

And then there are those pesky computer searches.

 

[BuzzieCat]

I was watching Dr. G's show last night and she was talking about homicide. (In the case she was talking about, a woman stabbed her boyfriend in the arm and he died in the hospital.) She said that homicide means that a person is killed by someone else's action but does not necessarily mean intentional murder and that it's then LE's and courts' job to determine whether it was murder or accident or what have you. In this case, Dr. G determined that the man died because of the girlfriend stabbing him, even though he had other comorbidities that contributed to his death (allergic reaction to blood transfusion, liver problems leading to increased bleeding). The girlfriend was given 12 years probation.

 

[JWG]

And then there are those pesky computer searches.

And again, I go back to the fact that the computer searches coincided with Ricardo posting the "Win her over with chloroform" picture on his myspace, which incidentally appeared on several other myspace pages this past March. The image is one of a well-dressed gentleman getting ready to "assault" a well-dressed woman with a rag soaked with chloroform.

After the search for chloroform KC searches self-defense and views a book on women's self defense. That search spawns a search for household weapons and then finally neck-breaking and shovel. Along the way she stops to take a poll on zombies. All of this occurs in the span of 12 minutes.

So, is the only explanation for the searches one where KC is laying the foundation for a diabolical plan to be hatched three months into the future (based on 12 minutes of planning)? Or could it have been her trying to understand what the image was all about, what it could do to her should Ricardo have some and use it on her, and how she might go about defending herself...and then in twelve short minutes deciding it was not anything to worry about so why not go back to uploading photos to Photobucket?

My speculation only...

 

[reeseeva]

I would certainly not put much weight in the report of chloroform. YET
I am far from an expert, but know enough to be a nuisance and to question how a representative sample of trunk gases was taken, and exactly how that was analysed, and what the results were, both qualitative and quantitative.
There are several very similar carbon-chlorine solvents, and side reactions that produce those chemicals. For instance, a chlorine bleach used then other solvent based cleaners might well produce a range of chloromethane compounds.
The report may well answer all my questions and confirm CHLOROFORM, but we have not seen it yet.

The test results were not DEFINITIVE, which has always bothered me. The wording is "could have been from %%%" I also heard Jose B state this a few times, & knew he was going to challenge these findings.

If you can watch last night's On The Record (Fox), I believe there was a criminal defense atty dissussing the trunk results as inconclusive, giving insight into what the defense will use. I'm not so worried about the Chloroform findings as I am about the decompositional findings. If the smell from the trunk knocked everyone over, & as George in his statement to LE says "you couldn't get within 3 ft of the car & not smell that odor", why aren't those more definitive?

The moderators, sometimes, link to previous shows. Maybe you can contact them .

 

[Indigo]

The test results were not DEFINITIVE, which has always bothered me. The wording is "could have been from %%%" I also heard Jose B state this a few times, & knew he was going to challenge these findings.

If you can watch last night's On The Record (Fox), I believe there was a criminal defense atty dissussing the trunk results as inconclusive, giving insight into what the defense will use. I'm not so worried about the Chloroform findings as I am about the decompositional findings. If the smell from the trunk knocked everyone over, & as George in his statement to LE says "you couldn't get within 3 ft of the car & not smell that odor", why aren't those more definitive?

The moderators, sometimes, link to previous shows. Maybe you can contact them .

Hi reeseeva,

I think we'll find at trial that the "inconclusive" wording on the decomposition is simply the result of necessary and legal scientific terminology. Could there be an alternative explantion to human decomposition in the trunk? Sure. But the bizarre mixture of food items, chemicals and decomposing animals which would have had to be in the trunk of that car at the same time to create that VOC signature is just not feasible, IMO. I don't believe a jury will buy it--especially when Caylee's body was found dumped right around the corner.