Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

[kiki the parrot]

I know it deserves a thread of it's own by now, but I am so curious as to how PI's--Jim Hoover, and Dominic Casey (truth is stranger than fiction lol you can't write this stuff) and recent reports have effected people's theories. I am referring to JB fearing privileged info--discussed while Mr. Casey, back in July, was still in JB's employ--may now be jeopardized (presumably re knowledge of the location of remains); possible defense strategy to suggest body being moved; and coincidental filming of (body free) remains location a month prior to meter reader's discovery etc. Has this changed anyone's theories and opinions if at all? Just wondering if others believe KC disclosed location prior to July 28th--while Mr. Casey was still in JB's employ--and whether after later being hired by A's, the A's themselves may have learned whereabouts of remains, as some reports suggest, up to a month prior--when another PI Hoover coincidentally filmed this very location? Defense sure needs something better, there is no way they can convince a jury Caylee's remains weren't in that trunk. Omg this is all exploding my brain... sorry if this is wrong thread?! JMO


http://www.wesh.com/news/18371232/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/news/18380933/detail.html
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-b3report30_108dec30,0,1130402.story

 

[Skully]

I just had a thought and need some input from you folks please...

July here in FL is HOT HOT HOT. The inside of a closed car can get into the 130-160 degree range in the mid day in a very short time.

So the car is towed on June 30 and sat until July 15. Can maggots and/or their eggs/larvae withstand that kind of heat??? Even under a garbage bag, the heat it seems to me would absolutely COOK them!! There is just no way these things could live inside a completely closed up car over a 2 week period - let alone "flies"!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just thought about this - tells me that garbage bag and/or stain/maggots/flies wasn't in there that long - as a matter of fact, couldn't have been in there more than 1 day!!!

Am I crazy? I know, will probably be moved to the entomologist thread...

Ok, I started a thread on blow flies today, and I swear to God, I did not see these posts. I have been wondering about this too. I can't image these flies and maggots in the trunk all this time. I hit the same site as JWG today on blow flies. LOL

 

[BuzzieCat]

With the nature of Casey's Internet searches being only 12 minutes and apparently in relation to Ricardo's My Space, I really have to change my mind about the "chloroform" and "neck breaking" stuff. Also because an ME's ruling of "homicide" does not automatically equate to "murder." I thought for sure Casey premeditated it. But maybe not, maybe it was spur of the moment. I still can't square "accident" with the way Casey acted for 31 days after Caylee died.

 

[Indigo]

I know it deserves a thread of it's own by now but I'm curious as to how the PI's--Jim Hoover, and Dominic "Casey" (truth is stranger than fiction lol you can't write this stuff) and recent reports have effected people's theories. I am referring to JB fearing privileged info--discussed while Mr. Casey, back in July, was still in JB's employ--may now be jeopardized (presumably re knowledge of the location of remains; possible defense strategy to suggest body being moved; and coincidental filming of (body free) remains location a month prior to meter reader's discovery etc. Has this changed anyone's theories and opinions if at all? Just wondering if others believe KC disclosed location prior to July 28th--while Mr. Casey was still in JB's employ--and whether after being subsequently hired by A's they themselves may have learned whereabouts of remains, as some reports suggest, up to a month prior--when another PI Hoover coincidentally filmed this very location? Defense sure needs something better, there is no way they can convince a jury Caylee's remains weren't in that trunk. Omg this is all exploding my brain, sorry if this is wrong thread? JMO


http://www.wesh.com/news/18371232/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/news/18380933/detail.html
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-b3report30_108dec30,0,1130402.story

The timing and direction of the two latest bombshells have my mind spinning too, kiki. The news that LA could face charges seems to coincide well with the PI's video IF the Defense is trying to raise reasonable doubt. It wouldn't be the first time a family member was willing to risk taking a bullet to save the other.

IIRC, in the Westerfield trial, the Defense attempted to throw Westerfield's son under the bus to save DW's sorry behind.

 

[Rumpole]

Ok, I started a thread on blow flies today, and I swear to God, I did not see these posts. I have been wondering about this too. I can't image these flies and maggots in the trunk all this time. I hit the same site as JWG today on blow flies. LOL

Maybe the maggots were dead?

I can remember maggots were reported, but were they described in any detail? Eg crawling? Is there a link to any sort of description?
I mainly remember CA saying the gabage bag had pizza and maggots when it was opened, but even then not mentioned if dead or alive.

 

[kageykaren]

Does anyone know what happens chemically when lime is placed on say an area in the car that has decomp soaked into carpet? I know through my local tannery lime,bleach, cleaning products are used to cover-up decomp smell but would the chemical breakdown of decomp by lime and other solubles cause chloroform? For some reason the amount purchased of lime by GA seems extravagant for the size of yardthey have & the timing of wanting to lay lime is off, Should I not be concerned by this?

 

[LCoastMom]

Something else: I remember CA telling FBI or LE in an interview that Caylee and KC did not spend the night of the 14th (June) at her house. That KC told her that she was working late and that Caylee was staying at the Nanny's. Somewhere I heard TL say that KC stayed at his house the night of the 14th (June) without Caylee. If there is no Nanny and Caylee was not at TL's or at the A's where was Caylee? The trunk? AH's storage unit? And somewhere I heard CA say that KC bought an air (bed) mattress. This would not fit in the back of the car but would fit possibly in a storage unit or empty apartment.

The only thing that bothers me about this, if Caylee told CA some story about waking up in some empty house or anything off like this, would CA then allow KC to have access to Caylee that nite? Would she let her leave the house the next morning like nothing had happened?

If your daughter has gone so far as to endanger the life of her child, and you found out. Would you let your daughter anywhere near the baby again in the near future? Would you let her 'disappear' with the baby for 31 days? I can't see it. G&C let KC sit in jail all those weeks because they knew she was lying, they didn't know what KC had done with Caylee, they couldn't believe she had hurt her, but they thought she knew who had her and why.

KC took Caylee and left their home for 31 days. They tried catching up with her, they sent Lee out to find her one night at a club. All this to CA was a form of punishing CA for telling KC she was going to take custody of Caylee. I think if CA had any dirt on KC, any fear that KC had endangered Caylee, KC never would have laid eyes on Caylee that night and they sure wouldn't have let KC leave the house with KC the next day planning on not returning that night.

 

[technicalconfusion]

So, is the only explanation for the searches one where KC is laying the foundation for a diabolical plan to be hatched three months into the future (based on 12 minutes of planning)? Or could it have been her trying to understand what the image was all about, what it could do to her should Ricardo have some and use it on her, and how she might go about defending herself...and then in twelve short minutes deciding it was not anything to worry about so why not go back to uploading photos to Photobucket?

My speculation only...

The seed was planted, imo, if she had already been thinking about it already, this cemented it.

I have also thought that was the reason for the chloroform searches and have wondered if the chloroform found in the trunk was caused by a combination of pool chemicals and the body decomposing.

There would be some, but not make as much as they found, is what I heard.

Did that make sense? I'm having brain issues today.

The chloroform testing came from the body farm, small amounts are expected in human decomp but the levels they were getting were much much higher than that. They reported those findings to LE who then did a search of her computer records and found the google searches.

Aren't the reports we've seen so far only been preliminary reports too? We haven't seen the finals yet.

 

[Rumpole]

Does anyone know what happens chemically when lime is placed on say an area in the car that has decomp soaked into carpet? I know through my local tannery lime,bleach, cleaning products are used to cover-up decomp smell but would the chemical breakdown of decomp by lime and other solubles cause chloroform? For some reason the amount purchased of lime by GA seems extravagant for the size of yardthey have & the timing of wanting to lay lime is off, Should I not be concerned by this?

Garden Lime is just Calcium cabonate (Chalk) not likely to do much.
"Quick Lime" also has garden uses and is very caustic, needing caution in handling.
Not sure what GA was throwing around. Do not think they would be any help in cleaning and not involved in producing chloroform.

 

[LCoastMom]

With the nature of Casey's Internet searches being only 12 minutes and apparently in relation to Ricardo's My Space, I really have to change my mind about the "chloroform" and "neck breaking" stuff. Also because an ME's ruling of "homicide" does not automatically equate to "murder." I thought for sure Casey premeditated it. But maybe not, maybe it was spur of the moment. I still can't square "accident" with the way Casey acted for 31 days after Caylee died.

Exactly. If it was an accident, why not call 911? Fear of CA is ridiculous, do you speak to someone you fear the way KC spoke to CA in the jail house calls?

Also, the timing. We don't know how long KC had been thinking about getting rid of her little burden. We do know she started looking on line in March. We don't know who else's computer she may have used since then. Also it takes much less time to look something up and rule out using it then it does to muddle over it's feasibility. We know she looked up chloroform, we know chloroform was in the same car as her daughters remains. We just don't know the link between the two. We know she looked up a show about a nanny who kidnapped a child and used a very similar story. We know her baby is dead. I think it took her a while to carry out the act, but I think she had been planning on doing it for some time. The relief of being unburdened is written all over her face in every Fusion picture.

KC spells relief M U R D E R.

 

[yeknomaras]

ok i understand what some of you are saying about the chloroform searches just being related to the pic on RM's myspace..... but why would she look up how to MAKE it??

 

[SL_Zero]

Something else: I remember CA telling FBI or LE in an interview that Caylee and KC did not spend the night of the 14th (June) at her house. That KC told her that she was working late and that Caylee was staying at the Nanny's. Somewhere I heard TL say that KC stayed at his house the night of the 14th (June) without Caylee. If there is no Nanny and Caylee was not at TL's or at the A's where was Caylee? The trunk? AH's storage unit? And somewhere I heard CA say that KC bought an air (bed) mattress. This would not fit in the back of the car but would fit possibly in a storage unit or empty apartment.

wow
in all my internet sleuthing and hypothesizing it never occured to me that IF she was drugging caylee she might leave her @ the storage unit.

has LE checked this out?

 

[Devon]

Exactly. If it was an accident, why not call 911? Fear of CA is ridiculous, do you speak to someone you fear the way KC spoke to CA in the jail house calls?

Also, the timing. We don't know how long KC had been thinking about getting rid of her little burden. We do know she started looking on line in March. We don't know who else's computer she may have used since then. Also it takes much less time to look something up and rule out using it then it does to muddle over it's feasibility. We know she looked up chloroform, we know chloroform was in the same car as her daughters remains. We just don't know the link between the two. We know she looked up a show about a nanny who kidnapped a child and used a very similar story. We know her baby is dead. I think it took her a while to carry out the act, but I think she had been planning on doing it for some time. The relief of being unburdened is written all over her face in every Fusion picture.

KC spells relief M U R D E R.

Text bolded by me.

Alternatively, what is written all over her face is the care-free happy expression of someone who is having a little 'me time' while her daughter is 'off having fun and visiting exciting places with a trusted nanny', because this is the story that she has told her friends throughout the period before CA catches up with her. At this point there is no 'missing' child/kidnapping story.

We have to remember that KC was acting in line with her story, so whatever she was really thinking and feeling in private, she was maintaining a public image to support her lies. Also, whilst the party pics and chirpy texts etc. appear to portray a woman without a conscience, these are only snapshots in time and we do not know what thoughts and feelings accompanied her into her sleep at night or greeted her each morning. She was certainly having nightmares, as AL has testified, so her 'relief' could not have been absolute.

 

[JWG]

Something else: I remember CA telling FBI or LE in an interview that Caylee and KC did not spend the night of the 14th (June) at her house. That KC told her that she was working late and that Caylee was staying at the Nanny's. Somewhere I heard TL say that KC stayed at his house the night of the 14th (June) without Caylee. If there is no Nanny and Caylee was not at TL's or at the A's where was Caylee? The trunk? AH's storage unit? And somewhere I heard CA say that KC bought an air (bed) mattress. This would not fit in the back of the car but would fit possibly in a storage unit or empty apartment.

Phone records show KC actively texting AL the night of the 14th / early morning of the 15th. That would indicate they are not together. Her cell phone pings from towers consistent with the parent's home as well, although she could have been at Lee's that night instead.

There are three cell towers that ping from the parent's home and from Lee's home. However, the probability one of the towers will or will not ping changes depending on which of the two locations she is at. Bond did some great statistical analysis work a couple weeks ago showing that the cell phone ping patterns from June 10 - June 14 change between the hours of 8PM and 8AM, indicating a high probability she is at Lee's and not at her parent's those nights. Why isolate on those hours? Because they are Caylee's sleep time.

Lee was reportedly not home those nights, so KC may have been using his place to crash if she was trying to get away from CA.

 

[SL_Zero]

Phone records show KC actively texting AL the night of the 14th / early morning of the 15th. That would indicate they are not together. Her cell phone pings from towers consistent with the parent's home as well, although she could have been at Lee's that night instead.

There are three cell towers that ping from the parent's home and from Lee's home. However, the probability one of the towers will or will not ping changes depending on which of the two locations she is at. Bond did some great statistical analysis work a couple weeks ago showing that the cell phone ping patterns from June 10 - June 14 change between the hours of 8PM and 8AM, indicating a high probability she is at Lee's and not at her parent's those nights. Why isolate on those hours? Because they are Caylee's sleep time.

Lee was reportedly not home those nights, so KC may have been using his place to crash if she was trying to get away from CA.

very interesting! maybe i should read the ping threads... i never have.

 

[Rumpole]

Phone records show KC actively texting AL the night of the 14th / early morning of the 15th. That would indicate they are not together. Her cell phone pings from towers consistent with the parent's home as well, although she could have been at Lee's that night instead.

There are three cell towers that ping from the parent's home and from Lee's home. However, the probability one of the towers will or will not ping changes depending on which of the two locations she is at. Bond did some great statistical analysis work a couple weeks ago showing that the cell phone ping patterns from June 10 - June 14 change between the hours of 8PM and 8AM, indicating a high probability she is at Lee's and not at her parent's those nights. Why isolate on those hours? Because they are Caylee's sleep time.

Lee was reportedly not home those nights, so KC may have been using his place to crash if she was trying to get away from CA.

Thanks for the info as always.

Glad we have got you covering the ping and computer stuff.
It would be a waste of time my trying to make sense out of all that info.

I accept the data you outline and almost all of your analysis.

I just don't see that accident fits the time line any better than act of violence and the circumstantial evidence of KC's overall behaviour makes violent act seem more likely to me.

 

[JWG]

Thanks for the info as always.

Glad we have got you covering the ping and computer stuff.
It would be a waste of time my trying to make sense out of all that info.

I accept the data you outline and almost all of your analysis.

I just don't see that accident fits the time line any better than act of violence and the circumstantial evidence of KC's overall behaviour makes violent act see more likely to me.

Truth be told, I don't always accept my analysis either and am constantly questioning the conclusions I have drawn. I frequently feel starved for information!

 

[LCoastMom]

this[/U] is the story that she has told her friends throughout the period before CA catches up with her. At this point there is no 'missing' child/kidnapping story.

We have to remember that KC was acting in line with her story, so whatever she was really thinking and feeling in private, she was maintaining a public image to support her lies. Also, whilst the party pics and chirpy texts etc. appear to portray a woman without a conscience, these are only snapshots in time and we do not know what thoughts and feelings accompanied her into her sleep at night or greeted her each morning. She was certainly having nightmares, as AL has testified, so her 'relief' could not have been absolute.

My bold.

I don't doubt KC was having nightmares. She knew with out question, eventually she was going to have to face CA and then LE. Unless she's a fool (which I don't think) she had to know her Zani the nanny story wasn't going to hold water for very long, but for some reason she was never able to come up with a better one. Or maybe she just couldn't be bothered making up a better one.

Regardless of what story KC was living, she knew Caylee wasn't off with the nanny having the time of her life. She knew Caylee's little body was wrapped in a plastic bag, decomposing. While KC was was hugging the stripper pole at Fusion and smiling all night long for the cameras, Caylee would never again smile, or laugh, or run around Blanchard Park. No one is such a good actor that they could be grieving in private for the horrendous loss of their child's life, while publicly doing the bump and grind on a dance platform. No one.

The only way someone could dump their child's body in a culvert, then run off to play house with their newest boy toy, is to have no feeling of loss, no sense of the tragedy that the rest of us would feel in the event of such loss.

 

[Rumpole]

Truth be told, I don't always accept my analysis either and am constantly questioning the conclusions I have drawn. I frequently feel starved for information!

Yes, I am relatively new to the info available, but feel already I need more.

What do we want?.............. Document dump!

When do we want it?........ NOW!

 

[Reannan]

We probably will not see any more documents before the trial, however, right? I need to go find those ping threads also. There is a wealth of information in there, and I bet LE hasn't put it all together any better...or even as good as.... you guys have! Great job!