Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

[Rumpole]

I pulled up an earlier thread about the duct tape, did a whole q/a thing on it, and the server kicked me, so I lost my post.
I'm trying to figure out some stuff. Some of us think the duct tape was put on Caylee before she died, like me. Some of us think it was after she died, like you. What I care about is different thought processes than my own, understanding, so maybe I can look at the stuff I am trying to figure out in a different way, not who is right and who is wrong. This isn't something I want to debate and pull people over to my way of thinking, I basically just want to sit quietly and hear what other people's thoughts are that differ from my own.
Lanie

I think putting duct tape across the mouth of a live child is a horrific thing to imagine. The terror in the child's eyes, likely struggling etc. That scenario in itself requires KC to be evil and sadistic. Not out of the question of course. I also think you would have to tape/tie hands to stop panic stricken attempts to remove, even if that was not possible as some surmise. Even with this hopless creature KC involved I just can not accept taping a live child. Perhaps an unconscious child, but that would invite the same problems when the child revived. I am left to favour the theory that the tape was applied after death and I am guessing the reason was to contain fluid, a lolling tongue, baby teeth falling out etc.

 

[Lanie]

I think putting duct tape across the mouth of a live child is a horrific thing to imagine. The terror in the child's eyes, likely struggling etc. That scenario in itself requires KC to be evil and sadistic. Not out of the question of course. I also think you would have to tape/tie hands to stop panic stricken attempts to remove, even if that was not possible as some surmise. Even with this hopless creature KC involved I just can not accept taping a live child. Perhaps an unconscious child, but that would invite the same problems when the child revived. I am left to favour the theory that the tape was applied after death and I am guessing the reason was to contain fluid, a lolling tongue, baby teeth falling out etc.

Thank you.
Lanie

 

[MUGENDAI]

I pulled up an earlier thread about the duct tape, did a whole q/a thing on it, and the server kicked me, so I lost my post.
I'm trying to figure out some stuff. Some of us think the duct tape was put on Caylee before she died, like me. Some of us think it was after she died, like you. What I care about is different thought processes than my own, understanding, so maybe I can look at the stuff I am trying to figure out in a different way, not who is right and who is wrong. This isn't something I want to debate and pull people over to my way of thinking, I basically just want to sit quietly and hear what other people's thoughts are that differ from my own.
Lanie

gotcha! so yeah, i am sure i can come up with at least two reason why to put tape on a live caylee but the taking the tape off part bugs me for reasons that have been stated but again i would and could not put anything past kc. poor little caylee either way.

 

[shadow of my mind]

I think the duct tape could actually cover a few different ideas.

If this was premeditated in any way, the heart sticker may have been placed on the piece of tape to make it seam like some sort of game to Caylee, keeping her from panicking. There would be no concern about the tape sticking to the hair and not being able to come off. If Casey had given Caylee some type of prescription drug to make her sleepy, applied the tape to her head and then applied chloroform once her mouth was covered, to knock her out long enough so an overdose of prescription meds would take effect, that would insure that Caylee would not be able to make any noise that would be loud enough to be heard and great distance from the trunk of the car or any other place she was keeping her. If she had any pre thought at all that she was going to attempt to blame a third party, such as a kidnapping then the placing duct tape on Caylee’s mouth would just lend to that later.

It also works with the idea that Casey herself, being angry that no one would take Caylee for the night and possibly high on some type of drug she really did not give much thought about Caylee’s hair being stuck with duct tape. It was a quick easy answer to a problem at hand. The child was in her way, she needed to put her someplace and to keep her quit at the same time. There was no thought of concern for Caylee at all, just concern that no one was going to interrupt Casey’s plans for the night with Tony.

If the tape was done post-mortem then it could have been to enhance the kidnapping story. The heart sticker was chosen as some type of mark or calling card, similar to what other serial killers have done. Maybe Casey thought that doing something like this would cause investigators in go in a direction away from her if/when the body was found.

It would also provide a limited way to keep body fluids contained.

The heart sticker, to me could mean many things. Since we are not privy to all of the evidence that LE has making any guess on that at this point would most likely be wrong.

MOO

 

[kcaddict]

I think the duct tape could actually cover a few different ideas.

If this was premeditated in any way, the heart sticker may have been placed on the piece of tape to make it seam like some sort of game to Caylee, keeping her from panicking. There would be no concern about the tape sticking to the hair and not being able to come off. If Casey had given Caylee some type of prescription drug to make her sleepy, applied the tape to her head and then applied chloroform once her mouth was covered, to knock her out long enough so an overdose of prescription meds would take effect, that would insure that Caylee would not be able to make any noise that would be loud enough to be heard and great distance from the trunk of the car or any other place she was keeping her. If she had any pre thought at all that she was going to attempt to blame a third party, such as a kidnapping then the placing duct tape on Caylee’s mouth would just lend to that later.

It also works with the idea that Casey herself, being angry that no one would take Caylee for the night and possibly high on some type of drug she really did not give much thought about Caylee’s hair being stuck with duct tape. It was a quick easy answer to a problem at hand. The child was in her way, she needed to put her someplace and to keep her quit at the same time. There was no thought of concern for Caylee at all, just concern that no one was going to interrupt Casey’s plans for the night with Tony.

If the tape was done post-mortem then it could have been to enhance the kidnapping story. The heart sticker was chosen as some type of mark or calling card, similar to what other serial killers have done. Maybe Casey thought that doing something like this would cause investigators in go in a direction away from her if/when the body was found.

It would also provide a limited way to keep body fluids contained.

The heart sticker, to me could mean many things. Since we are not privy to all of the evidence that LE has making any guess on that at this point would most likely be wrong.

MOO

bold by me

Totally agree...the sticker was a "game".

 

[debs]

bold by me

Totally agree...the sticker was a "game".

The sticker wasn't a game. I want to know if there were two more.

 

[Whisperer]

Does anyone know if Lee A's (former) house ever had a search warrant issued on it?

Good question! I have never seen cameras or anyone pursue Lee at his home. I find that strange, especially because of the close proximity of Lee's house. It would be possible that kc at some time made visits to Lee, but subject has not come up to my knowledge....strange

I used the poll and voting smothering....most likely the night of the 15th. She may have used tape to prevent sounds.

 

[suepitzl]

I'm sure you have more questions than I have answers...
...and I have plenty more questions myself.

RE: "2.6 days".

Lemme take a hack at it and I'll ask JWG to fix where I may stray...my apologies if it goes a bit OT, but, relevant to understanding how the forensics are used to support any theory.

I owe JWG and Bev a big TY for helping me understand the accumulated-degree-days (ADD) information that most know of as "2.6 days". This # is arrived at as a total of the elapsed temperature-time conditions following death. After the 2.6 figure was released JWG noted that the temperatures that were used as inputs may have been off a bit when compared to more detailed Orlando temperatures that were otherwise available.

So, JWG created a spreadsheet populated w/ 5-minute interval Orlando temperatures for the entire period of interest. After bouncin' it around a bit, we found some research on the web that had been done comparing the interior temperature of a car trunk vs. ambient temperatures vs. time of day, and incorporated (a) simulated trunk temps for each 5-minute interval, and (b) the ability to mathematically take the body in & out of the trunk to simulate the potential that it wasn't @ elevated temperatures if it had been moved...say...to the playhouse for example...for a period of time.

The end result of the above is IMHO, a more accurate assessment of the ADD data the body experienced than that which was provided to reach the 2.6 # in the released report. The actual target is 90 ADD. And using the compensated temperatures for the given time of death of 6/16 7:20PM we reach 90 ADD @ exactly 6/19 7:36PM (or 3.01 days)...and I gave a +/-1% range..so....7:01PM-8:19PM is the mathematical result. We don't know the exact time of medical death either...immediate...or slower organ failure that ultimate resulted in cardiac arrest...effect of heat/dehydration, etc. So, consider it a range. If you're interested, JWG can prolly tell you how many temperature input points were used to arrive @ the 2.6 days used in the released report. The spreadsheet we're using has 869 temperature input points.

Note that the time of day of death has an impact too, owing to a late PM death accumulating a cooler nighttime cycle of temperatures in the same amount of time as compared to a hotter daytime cycle.

Hope that helps.

RE: Pings.

The following is a 3.3 hour gap for which we have no data for Casey's whereabout via pings.

6/19/08 THU 5:45:39 PM
6/19/08 THU 9:02:02 PM​

This timeframe (a) encompasses the time given by Chris S. for Casey's visit with him, and (b) ends @ 9:02 with the receipt of a numbered text. This suggests to me Casey powered off her phone and received a system message when she powered it back up. The 5:45PM ping is in the Waterford Ale House/Fusian area, and the 9:02PM ping is near Tony's apt.

i thought that the 2.6 came from the maggots/pupa etc stuff

 

[shadow of my mind]

i thought that the 2.6 came from the maggots/pupa etc stuff

I have read all of the reports and I have not seen anything that relates to what the maggots/pupa have told them. Just that they were collected as evidence.
The 2.6 days is from the air test that was done in the trunk in the doc dump in Novemeber.

 

[shadow of my mind]

The sticker wasn't a game. I want to know if there were two more.

Would you care to share your thoughts that make you feel the sticker wasn't a game. My gut instincts tell me it was not also but... with that being said I would like to know if you have some thoughts or have seen something in the information that is available that leads you to this belief.
Respectfully,
Shadow

 

[JWG]

This is a carefully thought theory and requires a carefully thought response. I am not going to do it all at once, but will instead go through it section by section and ponder each on its own. I don't know yet if I agree or disagree - but I have told you that overall it is pretty disturbing. Doesn't mean it is not true...just disturbing.

In grabbing some handwriting samples from Casey’s handwritten statement to compare to the ZG signature on the traffic appearance I notice a couple of things. First, Casey scratched out a couple of words regarding the time she dropped Caylee w/ ZG on Monday, 6/9. Second, Casey wrote her last contact w/ ZG was on Thursday, 6/12. Both of these intrigued me…why hadn’t I probed them before?

In KC's statement she says "Thursday, June 12". Was she looking at a calendar? I cannot remember which day of the week a date falls on looking back a month without thinking real hard about it, and doing some math. Her handwritten statement does not seem to miss a beat. I find this real odd. IMO, "Thursday" is a significant day for KC. Could be the 12th...or the 19th.

Here is a weird thought. I've thought of the 20th or 24th as the two possible dates that the body was dumped, but the 19th (Thursday) is the date, IMHO, that the stain was left in the trunk. I've thought that was the day the duct tape was placed on the mouth (to stop decomp). The 20th would be the date the laundry bag would go into the trash bag and...when the heart is left on the duct tape. Could the day she last "heard" from ZG be the day she taped the mouth? :frown:

Casey scratched out the words “at one” as in o’clock, in favor of writing between 9AM and 1PM, IIRC. Now we have George’s much debated statement ‘bout Casey & Caylee leaving @ 12:50PM just like any other day. We also have cell pings for both 6/9 and 6/15, and we have computer forensics for 6/16.

I love Photoshop. After deleting the scribble - which was very simple (thank you KC) - I see she made two edits. At first she wrote the word "at". She stopped, and modified that to the word "around". Then she scribbled that out and wrote "between 9AM and 1PM".

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

This is a carefully thought theory and requires a carefully thought response. I am not going to do it all at once, but will instead go through it section by section and ponder each on its own. I don't know yet if I agree or disagree - but I have told you that overall it is pretty disturbing. Doesn't mean it is not true...just disturbing.



In KC's statement she says "Thursday, June 12". Was she looking at a calendar? I cannot remember which day of the week a date falls on looking back a month without thinking real hard about it, and doing some math. Her handwritten statement does not seem to miss a beat. I find this real odd. IMO, "Thursday" is a significant day for KC. Could be the 12th...or the 19th.

Here is a weird thought. I've thought of the 20th or 24th as the two possible dates that the body was dumped, but the 19th (Thursday) is the date, IMHO, that the stain was left in the trunk. I've thought that was the day the duct tape was placed on the mouth (to stop decomp). The 20th would be the date the laundry bag would go into the trash bag and...when the heart is left on the duct tape. Could the day she last "heard" from ZG be the day she taped the mouth? :frown:

I love Photoshop. After deleting the scribble - which was very simple (thank you KC) - I see she made two edits. At first she wrote the word "at". She stopped, and modified that to the word "around". Then she scribbled that out and wrote "between 9AM and 1PM".

That's interesting. What would make KC change the drop off time from 1 pm (that would link up perfectly to George's last time "seeing" them at 12:50) to between 9 and 1pm? That's a pretty wide window of time.

 

[tfrohning]

I voted smothered. I think that after the fight with her mother that Cayle wouldn't stop crying. After seeing video with Casey getting mad. I can see her puting something over Caylee mouth. the cholform was never a theory of mine. I thik it came from cleaning products when she try to clean the trunk. JMO

 

[BondJamesBond]

I'm sure you have more questions than I have answers...
...and I have plenty more questions myself.

RE: "2.6 days".

.......snip

Thanks.
That helps a lot. I still need some more before I'll roll over?

I'm not trying to sway opinions, I'm just offering theories that may be of interest to others considering their own. I continue to review the information that becomes available and develop explanations that could be consistent with it. I especially look for information that can be triangulated (e.g. ADD, pings, and testimony, that can all support a conclusion) and use this information as the foundation to work upon. I'm carefully reflecting on all of the information I can get my hands on to arrive @ the conclusions I'm posting. I'm certain that there are plenty of 'holes'...esp. since I don't have all the information...however, I try not to draw wild, unsubstantiated conclusions.

I have no trouble accepting the math and ADD data etc. Happy to incorporate and go along with likely removal from KC trunk at 7-8 pm 19th, certainly that evening with an even wider time range based on TOD.
If I have got it straight, at that time KC removed the body, and/or bagged it in plastic? and transfered it to Jeep.

Correct...

T.O.D. is supported by the m.o. of the 3 flurries (1) 6/9, (2) 6/16 & (3) 6/16 meaning that Caylee was likely still alive at least until Casey's last attempt to reach someone to take her, which was Amy @ 7:20PM, and the 6/16 flurries framed around trips Casey made to Tony's & Blockbuster w/o Caylee being seen.

The bagging & disposal & use of the Jeep agrees w/ the ADD of the Pontiac, Casey's window of opportunity per cell pings, and the witness of what she was driving @ the time.

1. She would be doing that in public parked near Tony's

Not necessarily. Chris S. stated Casey claimed her Pontiac had broken down as the reason she was driving the Jeep, Thursday, 6/19. Recall that this was the afternoon Casey & Tony had visited Crane's Landing apt. and that Amy & Will headed to Tony's apt to see Amy's totalled car only to find that Casey left. Her pings place her @ JBPark. Without diving off into that too far, it is possible Casey claimed her car ran outta gas ...and enlisted Amy's help the next day, Friday 6/20 to recover it - since she wouldn't want Tony to know she'd swiped his Jeep Thursday night - that might explain the text send 6/27, "Two weeks in a row.. on Friday.. my stupid car runs out of gas. Wow". This ploy would ensure Casey leaves the Pontiac in a desirable location for a transfer...goes to Crane's Landing in Tony's Jeep, and perhaps consequently gains use of it while Tony goes back to Full Sail that PM. I'll explore this further on the 6/19 ping thread.

2. What made her think/realise she needed to bag in plastic. She had not seen the decomp problem yet.

Perhaps the odor. Perhaps 6/18 she carried the hamper-bagged-only body to the backyard in an aborted burial attempt. It is known that distrubing a corpse will rupture tissue and release fluids more readily than a corpse that is left undisturbed. The fluids from 6/18 may have become rapidly increasing decomp odor by 6/19...and the plastic bag was needed for odor as much as to prevent further release of fluids...esp. if she was going to use Tony's Jeep.

3. She more likely to use garbage bag she already had in trunk, or one from AL, so perhaps less relevance to matching bag with A's house.

I tend to agree.

4. Why did she do all this? If she had decided to dump the body why not just jump in her car and drive to dump site.

I don't have a good answer. Perhaps she'd decided on the location and didn't want to risk G&C spotting her in the area in her white Pontiac. Perhaps she wanted the insurance of 4WD to guard against getting stuck in the mud since she knew she'd want to get off on the shoulder on Suburban and she knew it might be muddy, and a black vehicle after sundown at that.

5. Why chose that dump site? No immediate panic and no need to go so close to A's

The proverbial 'million dollar question'. Psychologists offer suggestions...I just dunno.

6. Why did she return to A's area the next day and run out of gas. Was she intending to move the body in broad daylight?

Returned to A's to clean/vacuum the trunk. May not have run outta gas this day (see above re: 6/19 possibly...other options too that I don't wanta stray into here re: 6/20 outta gas)

7. To be advised, I'm still thinkin'

Per above following "roll over"...I do appreciate your thorough & thoughtful questions. It helps me think through aspects better...

 

[JWG]

When we look at an individual day, there aren’t enough cell ping data points to make a statistical conclusion ‘bout Casey bein’ @ G&C’s or Lee’s, but, when I looked closer @ 6/8-6/9 and 6/15-6/16 I noted that there are periods of a sometimes more than a dozen pings in a row that strike the northern tower nearer Lee’s home. Typically, the pings bounce back and forth between 2 towers – one more southern and the other more northern. For these periods when a long stretch of pings strike the northern tower, I believe Casey was taking refuge @ Lee’s. I can’t detail them here, but, suffice it to say Casey appeared to goto Lee’s 6/8PM moreso than 6/15PM…and did, indeed, appear to spend the night @ G&C’s on 6/15, which agrees with Cindy’s account.

I think the (near) absence of tower 12 (SW of Anthony's) pings after the 15th is quite telling as well. There is heavy and increasing traffic to that tower relative to the other two towers up to the 15th. Then, almost nothing relative to the other towers. Sure does support a local relocation.

 

[Rumpole]

BOND
Thanks again.
More to think about.

The "roll over" comment was humour? I do understand this process of developing theories that stand the test of serious critisism, and can encompass other data. I appreciate the thought and effort that you and others put into this stuff.

My wife describes me as hypercritical. I see it as a feature, rather than a bug.

 

[JWG]

JUNE 16:

Again, Casey went to Lee’s, only slightly earlier than 6/9. From 11:47AM until 3:04PM the duration of calls suggests Caylee was napping. 18 of 22 (not counting vmails that don’t have location associated) calls between 11:47AM and 4:14PM…which includes the “flurry” calls. Are carried by Tower 22. This suggests Casey placed the first 6/16 flurry of calls from Lee’s and that the pool wasn’t involved in any ‘accident’.

We also have computer forensics info for 6/16 to use with the cell ping data, and it supports that Casey left G&C’s 12-2PM on Monday, 6/16, yet, she returned between 2-3PM when G&C’s computer is active again. Casey returned to G&C’s while Caylee napped @ Lee’s. Specifically, using the cell data, Casey went to G&C’s for ~30mins 6/16 between 2:20-2:52PM. Casey may have dosed Caylee @ Lee’s to ensure she remained ‘asleep’.

IMHO, the above suggests the timing of George’s account better describes 6/9 vs. 6/15.

Some thoughts...

Texts with AH in late May indicate KC had been sick, and Caylee too, probably with colds. Originally, I thought this is where the "little snothead" comment to Rusciano had come from - Caylee was a mucous machine. But, the comment to Rusciano was early May and the texts regarding KC and Caylee health were late May. So probably no connection.

However, I am wondering if KC discovered the power of Robitussin or Nyquil or something else during this period. :waitasec:

Fast forward to the 16th. KC leaves her parent's and goes up to Lee's, where she gives Caylee some medicine. Caylee is used to this routine by now...been happening since the end of May. KC straps a sleeping Caylee in her car seat and heads back to the parent's.

KC had several bags with her and carries a few in, leaving a sleeping Caylee in the car. Then comes that 30 minute call with Amy. Good times reminisced...check out photos on Facebook...IM friends about the wild night.

Call ends with Amy...KC continues to surf and browse...Jesse calls and they talk about KC issues for 13 minutes. Then a call comes in from George interrupting the KC-centric world. Sometime during this brief conversation he mentions Caylee. After the call KC goes out to check on her daughter...who has now been in the car asleep an hour.

Still looks like she is asleep. Head plopped over to one side. Yep, asleep.

KC goes back in and packs for her and Caylee. Grabs a toy or two...Winnie the Pooh blanket...etc. Calls AL to confirm plans. Then a flurry of calls to GA and CA looking for babysitting coverage.

No dice. Will have to drive up there with the "little snot head" and make excuses for going home early.

Arrives at AL's near 4:30. Goes back to get Caylee and something does not seem right. She is unresponsive. Cold to the touch. Lifeless eyes. KC figures out she has a BIG problem. Looks around and sees no one is around. Pops the trunk and quickly puts Caylee inside with the clothes and blanket she had gathered earlier. "Mama" remains in the car.

June 17 - travel back to parent's to evaluate situation. Caylee clearly dead. KC finds a laundry bag and places Caylee inside. Maybe puts Pooh blankie in there as well...for comfort.

June 18 - tries to bury body in back yard with BB's shovel. No luck. Returns body to trunk.

After that...still contemplating...

 

[CentralFLMama]

I am intrigued by these recent theories about napping in the car and passing that way. I could see this happening, leaving her to nap in the car and redness of the face (from heat is more likely IMO) causing a panic and a dunk into the pool before realising the awful truth.

but again and again and again Casey ruins all the theories with not calling 911 and her cold horrible behaviour afterwards. I go with the flow mentally in accident scenarios til that first phone call from jail pops into my head.

you know, if she had changed her behaviour in any way that friends or family noticed, even one crying spell one time, I would keep thinking this had to be an accident. yes there were the nightmares, late in june, and the fact that they were late in june makes me think they were about the decomposition and not grief.

The facts that I know as of this date over and over point to a deliberate death no matter how much I still naively wish it to have been an accident.

You got it. Well said.

 

[Rumpole]

Some thoughts...

Texts with AH in late May indicate KC had been sick, and Caylee too, probably with colds. Originally, I thought this is where the "little snothead" comment to Rusciano had come from - Caylee was a mucous machine. But, the comment to Rusciano was early May and the texts regarding KC and Caylee health were late May. So probably no connection.

However, I am wondering if KC discovered the power of Robitussin or Nyquil or something else during this period. :waitasec:

Fast forward to the 16th. KC leaves her parent's and goes up to Lee's, where she gives Caylee some medicine. Caylee is used to this routine by now...been happening since the end of May. KC straps a sleeping Caylee in her car seat and heads back to the parent's.

KC had several bags with her and carries a few in, leaving a sleeping Caylee in the car. Then comes that 30 minute call with Amy. Good times reminisced...check out photos on Facebook...IM friends about the wild night.

Call ends with Amy...KC continues to surf and browse...Jesse calls and they talk about KC issues for 13 minutes. Then a call comes in from George interrupting the KC-centric world. Sometime during this brief conversation he mentions Caylee. After the call KC goes out to check on her daughter...who has now been in the car asleep an hour.

Still looks like she is asleep. Head plopped over to one side. Yep, asleep.

KC goes back in and packs for her and Caylee. Grabs a toy or two...Winnie the Pooh blanket...etc. Calls AL to confirm plans. Then a flurry of calls to GA and CA looking for babysitting coverage.

No dice. Will have to drive up there with the "little snot head" and make excuses for going home early.

Arrives at AL's near 4:30. Goes back to get Caylee and something does not seem right. She is unresponsive. Cold to the touch. Lifeless eyes. KC figures out she has a BIG problem. Looks around and sees no one is around. Pops the trunk and quickly puts Caylee inside with the clothes and blanket she had gathered earlier. "Mama" remains in the car.

June 17 - travel back to parent's to evaluate situation. Caylee clearly dead. KC finds a laundry bag and places Caylee inside. Maybe puts Pooh blankie in there as well...for comfort.

June 18 - tries to bury body in back yard with BB's shovel. No luck. Returns body to trunk.

After that...still contemplating...

TOD here 6 hours or so earlier than Bond.
Trying to retain as much as possible of what Bond put up. Body transfer/bagging would have to be early afternoon in public? Caylee in the jeep when she went to visit Chris? In which case she could have dumped prior to visit? But again in broad daylight?
I still have problems with the smell factor in the jeep. I know LE only tested stains for blood and were satisfied, but surely with decomp an issue they would have had a good sniff?

 

[BondJamesBond]

TOD here 6 hours or so earlier than Bond.
Trying to retain as much as possible of what Bond put up. Body transfer/bagging would have to be early afternoon in public? Caylee in the jeep when she went to visit Chris? In which case she could have dumped prior to visit? But again in broad daylight?
I still have problems with the smell factor in the jeep. I know LE only tested stains for blood and were satisfied, but surely with decomp an issue they would have had a good sniff?

I spent the last couple of hours trying to work out 6/19 pings to enable a xfer to the Jeep to stop the ADD clock started @ 7:20PM on 6/16. I couldn't make it work. Sooo...if t.o.d. was >7:20PM...perhaps the Jeep wasn't used in the disposal....

What did work was backing t.o.d. to 3PM 6/16...which is fitting w/ the expired in carseat-but-didn't-discover-until-later timing....then transfering & storing the body temporarily @ the unoccuppied Oviedo property stopping the ADD clock 3-4PM 6/19...then returning to the Oviedo property in the Jeep ~7-8PM and taking it to the disposal site on Suburban Dr.

The latter doesn't explain elevated chloroform in the trunk...and the 6:30PM flurry...and 7PM call to G&C's....unless these were for "We won't be home tonight".

I just haven't come up w/ a thread that pulls through all of the information cleanly.