Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

[AZlawyer]

...I haven't figured out, nor do I think we'll know until trial, where the duct tape came from...it woulda had to have been handy. A resourceful-George emergency kit in the trunk already?

My latest working is that Casey & Tony may have already been doin' homage to doobie or downin' some beer before they went to Blockbuster. I haven't watched the Blockbuster surveil vid for clues on whether or not they appeared to be buzzin'. If they were already started down that road...by the time Casey went back to check on Caylee ~7:20PM (and apply the final dose) her judgement may've been impaired enough that the thought of having to remove the duct tape never entered her even-when-sober-10min@-a-time-@-best mind. :bang:

OK, if KC was impaired in some way, I could see her doing that--especially if I'm correct that it was only a "piece" of duct tape and not duct tape wrapped all the way around her head. Then do you think the heart sticker was put on at the same time as a "shhh, don't cry, it's OK, see, it's fun sticker time" kind of thing??

I wonder if KC had the stickers handy as rewards for potty training?

 

[MUGENDAI]

if she is guilty of the crime i still think she did the tape to make it look like an aggravated attack. i think she will say and do anything to get away with whatever she has done. i think in about seven years or so, she is going to feel very very ignorant. i know i do but i have never killed another living being before...so... maybe it was a purposeful accident...? if she drowned and didnt get help then it will be the same scenario as now and if she would have gottin help, then they would be like "...well, WHERE were YOU mom...?

 

[MUGENDAI]

OK, if KC was impaired in some way, I could see her doing that--especially if I'm correct that it was only a "piece" of duct tape and not duct tape wrapped all the way around her head. Then do you think the heart sticker was put on at the same time as a "shhh, don't cry, it's OK, see, it's fun sticker time" kind of thing??

I wonder if KC had the stickers handy as rewards for potty training?

aww now that makes me sad, as much as it can be true though. ya know...i think kc likes to be called a monster and mean and evil and all that jazz. remember...? "freak show!". she likes that s**t.

 

[Julius]

Does anyone know if Lee A's (former) house ever had a search warrant issued on it?

 

[Whyamisointerested]

I think that the d.tape was put on after Caylee had passed to either:
Make it look like a kidnapping
or
To stop fluids from leaking out

 

[Lanie]

I think that the d.tape was put on after Caylee had passed to either:
Make it look like a kidnapping
or
To stop fluids from leaking out

Ok, I just have to know. I'm not even going to debate it if you answer, but I have seen this over and over again, and I really am interested in how people are coming to these conclusions, so if you don't mind terribly, would you explain your reasoning behind why you think the duct tape was put on after death?
1.) What led you to believe the duct tape was to make it look like a kidnapping?
2.) What led you to believe the duct tape was to stop fluids from leaking out?
TIA
Lanie
Adding as a third question: What led you to believe the duct tape was applied after death, as opposed to before death?
I am interested in answers from ANYONE who has one or all of the above opinions.
TIA
Lanie

 

[seekjustice]

...I haven't figured out, nor do I think we'll know until trial, where the duct tape came from...it woulda had to have been handy. A resourceful-George emergency kit in the trunk already?

My latest working is that Casey & Tony may have already been doin' homage to doobie or downin' some beer before they went to Blockbuster. I haven't watched the Blockbuster surveil vid for clues on whether or not they appeared to be buzzin'. If they were already started down that road...by the time Casey went back to check on Caylee ~7:20PM (and apply the final dose) her judgement may've been impaired enough that the thought of having to remove the duct tape never entered her even-when-sober-10min@-a-time-@-best mind. :bang:

My initial problem with this theory was the duct tape. The report states a piece of duct tape was on the mouth....but later goes on to say the duct tape had to be cut from the hair. So I suppose it's entirely possible and probable the duct tape could have moved somewhat during all this time.

My other issue is with Tony's vehicle, I just don't imagine KC would risk putting Caylee in Tony's jeep and don't see how the stains could be decomp and the vehicle not have the same horrendous odor as the pontiac

 

[Rumpole]

I'm sure you have more questions than I have answers...
...and I have plenty more questions myself.

RE: "2.6 days". .......snip

Thanks.
That helps a lot. I still need some more before I'll roll over?

I have no trouble accepting the math and ADD data etc. Happy to incorporate and go along with likely removal from KC trunk at 7-8 pm 19th, certainly that evening with an even wider time range based on TOD.
If I have got it straight, at that time KC removed the body, and/or bagged it in plastic? and transfered it to Jeep.
1. She would be doing that in public parked near Tony's
2. What made her think/realise she needed to bag in plastic. She had not seen the decomp problem yet.
3. She more likely to use garbage bag she already had in trunk, or one from AL, so perhaps less relevance to matching bag with A's house.
4. Why did she do all this? If she had decided to dump the body why not just jump in her car and drive to dump site.
5. Why chose that dump site? No immediate panic and no need to go so close to A's
6. Why did she return to A's area the next day and run out of gas. Was she intending to move the body in broad daylight?
7. To be advised, I'm still thinkin'

 

[seekjustice]

I'm sure you have more questions than I have answers...
...and I have plenty more questions myself.

RE: "2.6 days". .......snip

Thanks.
That helps a lot. I still need some more before I'll roll over?

I have no trouble accepting the math and ADD data etc. Happy to incorporate and go along with likely removal from KC trunk at 7-8 pm 19th, certainly that evening with an even wider time range based on TOD.
If I have got it straight, at that time KC removed the body, and/or bagged it in plastic? and transfered it to Jeep.
1. She would be doing that in public parked near Tony's
2. What made her think/realise she needed to bag in plastic. She had not seen the decomp problem yet.
3. She more likely to use garbage bag she already had in trunk, or one from AL, so perhaps less relevance to matching bag with A's house.
4. Why did she do all this? If she had decided to dump the body why not just jump in her car and drive to dump site.
5. Why chose that dump site? No immediate panic and no need to go so close to A's6. Why did she return to A's area the next day and run out of gas. Was she intending to move the body in broad daylight?
7. To be advised, I'm still thinkin'

Bold/color by me

Excellent point! To me this shows KC was in the vacinity of the A home and in a hurry/panic to dispose of the body....not much thought put into it IMO.

 

[MUGENDAI]

Ok, I just have to know. I'm not even going to debate it if you answer, but I have seen this over and over again, and I really am interested in how people are coming to these conclusions, so if you don't mind terribly, would you explain your reasoning behind why you think the duct tape was put on after death?
1.) What led you to believe the duct tape was to make it look like a kidnapping?
2.) What led you to believe the duct tape was to stop fluids from leaking out?
TIA
Lanie

why on earth would she put it from ear to ear so much so that the hair was stuck and had to be cut, why would she do that intending to pull it off and back and off again alive. but would the leak be worse from her whole body in stead of the mouth, but i have never watched a body decompose...my dad used to work for a funeral home so i guess i can ask him. but it seems to look towards it being put on after the death but there will be no docus to back that up yet so we will have to wait and see. i personally think she wanted to look like a kidnapping cause...well she said she was kidnapped.

 

[Lanie]

Bold/color by me

Excellent point! To me this shows KC was in the vacinity of the A home and in a hurry/panic to dispose of the body....not much thought put into it IMO.

Here's my opinion, FWIW.
June 16. Casey kills Caylee. She puts the body in the hamper, and then in the trunk. (I always figured she either wrapped her in a towel or a blanket, but hamper it is.) IMO, she had every intention of disposing of the body late that night, but she hooked up with TonE, they rented movies, one thing led to another....
Next day, June 17th. IMO, Casey doesn't give Caylee a second thought. No dump plans, nothing, she's too busy hanging out with the current love of her life.
June 18th. Casey gets in her car, and notices an odor. Could it be? Oh, my, didn't anticipate that. At this point, in FL conditions, there has to be some major decomp going on. So, Casey heads over to her house, backs in, gets a big garbage bag, manuevers the hamper into it, takes it around to Suburban, carries the bag in as far as she feels like, and tosses it, or drops it, or whatever. Problem solved.
At this point, I feel like she made some effort to get rid of the smell still lingering in the car, maybe some baking soda or some Febreeze. I don't think she did much in the way of cleaning the trunk, though.
Lanie

 

[Lanie]

why on earth would she put it from ear to ear so much so that the hair was stuck and had to be cut, why would she do that intending to pull it off and back and off again alive. but would the leak be worse from her whole body in stead of the mouth, but i have never watched a body decompose...my dad used to work for a funeral home so i guess i can ask him. but it seems to look towards it being put on after the death but there will be no docus to back that up yet so we will have to wait and see. i personally think she wanted to look like a kidnapping cause...well she said she was kidnapped.

I guess I should have made it three questions instead of 2.
Maybe I should start a thread?
Anyway, just rephrasing to make sure I understand your answers, and add a question for the sake of clarity.

Q. Why don't you think the duct tape was put on an alive Caylee?
A. Because the duct tape was stuck to the hair on both sides, so Casey was not intending to pull it off.

Q. Why do you think the duct tape was used to make it look like a kidnapping?
A. Because Casey said Caylee was kidnapped.

Q. Why do you think the tape was used to stop decomp fluid leakage.
A. I don't know about that.

Mugendai, if I misrepresented your answers, please correct me.
Thank you.
Lanie

 

[MUGENDAI]

I guess I should have made it three questions instead of 2.
Maybe I should start a thread?
Anyway, just rephrasing to make sure I understand your answers, and add a question for the sake of clarity.

Q. Why don't you think the duct tape was put on an alive Caylee?
A. Because the duct tape was stuck to the hair on both sides, and Casey was intending to pull it off.

Q. Why do you think the duct tape was used to make it look like a kidnapping?
A. Because Casey said Caylee was kidnapped.

Q. Why do you think the tape was used to stop decomp fluid leakage.
A. I don't think that.

Mugendai, if I misrepresented your answers, please correct me.
Thank you.
Lanie

no, "wasnt" indending to take the tape off and the leakage thing, i dont know about that one...maybe.

 

[Rumpole]

Bond, you explained it quite well, as usual. :woohoo:

Let me try to add a few things......

........via weather underground.........

As in Obama's best friend's crowd?

 

[Lanie]

no, "wasnt" indending to take the tape off and the leakage thing, i dont know about that one...maybe.

Okay, I changed my original post. If I still don't have it right, would you mind reposting your answers again? I'm not real crazy about rephrasing other's posts. I wasn't concise enough in my original post about what I was looking for, so my bad.
Thanks,
Lanie

 

[MUGENDAI]

Okay, I changed my original post. If I still don't have it right, would you mind reposting your answers again? I'm not real crazy about rephrasing other's posts. I wasn't concise enough in my original post about what I was looking for, so my bad.
Thanks,
Lanie

it's really not a big deal, i think we are going to be wrong in a lot of things here. we dont have clear perception in some of these things.

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

I don't think I will ever ever believe that KC drugged Caylee and put her in her trunk with duct tape over her mouth on a hot summer night. It would be VERY warm and there wouldn't be any ventilation.

I think we are straying from the Keep It Simple mentality.


FWIW - I don't disagree that she might have given Caylee something (like benedryl) for naps at Lee's and, to better help out your theory, Bond, TonE did say that KC would always go outside to talk on the phone so maybe she used that to go down and check and re-chloroform Caylee??


That said, why in the world would she take the chance of opening a trunk with a sedated/duct taped toddler in an apartment complex parking lot?? There are often lots of people coming and going at all hours of the day and night. Too risky.

The chloroform bothers me, too. How in the world would she be careful enough not to make herself pass out when opening the trunk again to check on her....no good to be passed out next to your car with the trunk lid open exposing the child duct taped inside.

I do, however, strongly believe that KC was "self-medicating" the moment she was with TonE and it made that night and the next few days much more tolerable. It was in the sobering moments in the afternoons when TonE was at school and she had to drive back to G&C's and see her childhood home, reminders of Caylee everywhere, to rebag a dead child that was probably the most difficult.

 

[Zingo]

This case is so bizarre, I can't even come up with a plausible theory...

It seems that Caylee likely died on the 15th or 16th ... But I can't really come up with a death timeline or theory, without knowing the following:

1. Did KC and Caylee spend the night of the 15th at the parents' house?
2. Did George really see them on the afternoon of the 16th before work?
3. What happened the morning of the 16th? Where was Caylee then?
4. Did GA and CA think KC was moving out on the 16th?
5. Where did they think KC was moving to with Caylee?
6. Did KC leave any messages for GA/CA during flurry of phone calls the 16th?
7. Was there chlorine found in the trunk indicating Caylee maybe drowned and was placed in the trunk?
8. Was there dirt left behind on the neighbor's shovel that can trace back to the remains site? Any evidence of decomp on the shovel? (The shovel throws me off because there is no indication Caylee was actually buried in the woods, just dumped.)
9. Was there any evidence of homemade chloroform in KC/Caylee's room?
10. What evidence about the cause of death could be learned from Caylee's hair? (drugged? poison?)
11. What evidence did the duct tape reveal about whether Caylee was still alive when it was placed over her mouth and was the duct tape a likely cause of death (suffocation?)
12. Was there any dirt on the hamper/trash bag that could trace back to the A's yard? (Maybe KC initially tried to bury her in the backyard, and thought that was too hard, so she opted to dump her in the woods)

Non-timeline related, but still want to know ...

13. Where did KC go everyday with Caylee?
14. If Cindy believes KC was lounging around all the time on the couch, why did she also still believe apparently that KC was employed?
15. Where did George work?
16. How did KC know about ZFG at Sawgrass?


If anyone knows the answers, let me know ...

 

[Lanie]

it's really not a big deal, i think we are going to be wrong in a lot of things here. we dont have clear perception in some of these things.

I pulled up an earlier thread about the duct tape, did a whole q/a thing on it, and the server kicked me, so I lost my post.
I'm trying to figure out some stuff. Some of us think the duct tape was put on Caylee before she died, like me. Some of us think it was after she died, like you. What I care about is different thought processes than my own, understanding, so maybe I can look at the stuff I am trying to figure out in a different way, not who is right and who is wrong. This isn't something I want to debate and pull people over to my way of thinking, I basically just want to sit quietly and hear what other people's thoughts are that differ from my own.
Lanie

 

[shadow of my mind]

As in Obama's best friend's crowd?

LOL Good One. I just wish more people in this country knew that.

But just incase that is an actual question weather underground is a weather site that you can type in any city or zip code and get a very detailed report of current weather plus weather history. It is pretty much worldwide. Great resource.
http://www.wunderground.com/