Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

[It's Not the Nanny]

To Seagull


I understand exactly where you are coming from but feel I must point out that you are taking these things apart and examining them like a sane person. I can tell you aren't a sociopath just by the way you rationalize. See you say there was no reason for KC to kill Caylee because she could have just left her with CA. This is exactly what you or I or any "normal" person would do.

BUT, this is absolutley NOT what a Borderline or sociopath would do. If you have never experienced their thinking or the absolute disconnect they live with you cannot understand that YES, KC would have killed Caylee before she left her with CA for so many reason that make not a lick of sense to a normal person.

Why did Susan Smith drown her boys when her husband would have taken them in a heartbeat. Because in her twisted mind it would have made her look like a bad parent to just give away her boys. In the NORMAL mind we are like WTH, she thinks killing them makes her look better than just giving them to their dad? But see, she never thought people wouldn't believe her story or would care so much. Sound familiar.

But like you, I am not 100% sure that it was not accidental. The only thing that throws me is the duct tape. Even if it was accidental, I firmly believe that it was from neglect. From her busy talking on the phone while Caylee was asleep in the car in the garage or something. To me it is still KC's fault.

My theory is that she did leave the morning of the 16th as George said but she went to Lee's to wait until George went to work so she could come back to the house. I think this happened often as a cover for "work" I think she either medicated Caylee so she would nap at Lee's and quickly left Lee's to go over to the A's to pick up some of her stuff and when she got back to Lee's Caylee was gone from overdose, OR, she drove back from Lee's and Caylee fell asleep in the car and since she had no plans to stay at the A's, was just picking up some stuff, left Caylee in the car while she backed into the garage, she went into the house, got sidetracked on the computer or phone with JG or AH and when she finally went back out to check on Caylee she was gone from the heat if the car was off, or Carbon monoxide in the garage if she left the car on so that Caylee would have air conditioning.

I think she freaked out and rushed her to the pool to cool her down, but it was too late. She left the gate out in her panic and after she plunged Caylee into the pool, she laid her down beside the pool, thus the dogs hit here. She again quickly moved her over to the more private area of the yard, the playhouse area and layed here there and ran in the house and made a flurry of calls, none of which were answered. She knew she couldn't call 911, CA would never forgive her for causing Caylee's death. She went into automatic coverup mode and put her in the trunk. This I think is where the choloform may come from. The wet pool water and a combination of cleaning products later on.

Sorry this is so long. But that's my theory.

My theory is very close to yours! I'm not sure which way I lean in terms of how she actually died (be it accidental from overdose on meds, heat stroke in the car, drowning.....or if KC did it intentionally), but the rest of your theory is exactly what I think happened.

 

[Lanie]

Most of what follows is speculation on my part.

Casey denied she was pregnant for 7 months. When it did come out, it wasn't a somewhat private family matter. The final push seems to be at Cindy's brother's wedding, where Cindy denied to everyone there Casey was pregnant. Due to what I have seen of Cindy's character, this was probably pretty humiliating to her, and she doesn't seem the kind to get over it very quickly. Then more humiliation, with JG's paternity test coming back negative, so now Casey doesn't even know who the father is. Casey was dumping Caylee off on whoever would take her, including Cindy about once a week at her work. Cindy is financially supporting Caylee and Casey. The extended family knew a lot of what was going on, and families talk.
We have statements about some of the things Cindy was saying about and to Casey before she found out Caylee was missing, and it wasn't anywhere near what she is saying now, how Casey was a perfect mother :sick:, etc. It was some pretty ugly stuff. Caylee was a mistake, Casey is a sociopath, etc. I sincerely doubt this kind of talk was rare.
IMO, Casey saw Caylee as a burden. All this from her mother wasn't making things better. IMO, it's possible Cindy nitpicked a lot of what Casey did regarding Caylee as well.
Cindy posted the "Caylee is Missing" blog. Casey maybe responded to that with her "Diary of Days" blog. IMO, the "On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken", refers back to something Cindy said about Caylee, like she would be better of not being born, or something along those lines. I feel Casey killed Caylee out of spite towards Cindy. I don't think it was completely a moment of rage, but more something that had been building for some time. I think Casey had a broad plan of what she was going to do for several months, and was just building up the courage, or waiting for the right time, or maybe even thinking to herself, "One more time, Mom, and see what happens" kind of thing. The right time could have been being close enough with someone to have a place to go (TonE) or the 'one more time' could have been the alleged fight on June 15th.
Lanie

 

[seagull65]

I don't believe that anyone other than kc killed caylee either and I was also one that held on to some kind of accident theory until I found out about the duct tape and the heart.....but however vague the possibility is that someone was trying to frame kc and she was and is scared to admit the truth it is still a possibility that should be allowed to be discussed...

Thanks, claudicici, doodlelover and others :blowkiss:
I like your theories, too, and they seem very plausible to me. The things that keep me from committing 100% to theory of KC as murderer, are mainly that others had access to the house and had access to Caylee, and others could have accessed KC's car and items in it, as well as items she had along with her when staying at other people's apartments. The dog hits in the backyard could have to do with disposal of the body which doesn't necessarily mean involvement in the murder, and doesn't necessarily mean KC at all, I wonder if it also could also be from transfer from objects in the car. Even the chemical air analysis from the pontiac trunk did not conclude that it was definitely human decomp in the trunk, much less Caylee's, but that the chemical sample contained some of the chemical profile of human decomp. The one hair seems to prove Caylee's body was in the trunk post mortem, whether placed there by KC or someone else I don't know. If Caylee's body was in KC's trunk it could mean KC was involved in the disposal, does not necessarily mean involvement in the murder. Etc. In many ways it seems most likely that KC did these things, of course, but I can't be sure yet due to these factors. I don't picture any elaborate "framing" of KC, really. I think there would turn out to be a simpler explanation why KC's car was possibly used and why these items were dumped along with Caylee's body, maybe some convenience issue for the perpetrator. Thanks for your openmindedness.
Throughout most of this case, I thought the accident theory was definitely most likely, due to KC's age and being so involved in constant texting, social life, and other distractions. We all know how the computer and so on can suck you in and hours go by before you notice. Something related to heat exposure in the car, accidental drowning in the pool, household accident, falling, accidental ingestion of drugs, etc. Carbon monoxide is a new theory to me from some of you all here and I can certainly see something like that. I have a very hard time imagining tape being placed on the mouth subsequent to an accident, though I guess you never know, especially if mental illness is potentially involved.

 

[seagull65]

New to WS...my first post. This is a great site with many, many intelligent people!! I have a ton of reading to do to catch up so forgive me if this has been mentioned before.

Re KC drugging Caylee...wouldn't LE be able to test Caylee's hair for drugs?

Hi Victoria, and welcome! If they have enough hair I imagine they could. I'm not sure how many would be needed or whether the hair they had was consumed in other testing.

 

[Nosey Parker]

Most of what follows is speculation on my part.

Casey denied she was pregnant for 7 months. When it did come out, it wasn't a somewhat private family matter. The final push seems to be at Cindy's brother's wedding, where Cindy denied to everyone there Casey was pregnant. Due to what I have seen of Cindy's character, this was probably pretty humiliating to her, and she doesn't seem the kind to get over it very quickly. Then more humiliation, with JG's paternity test coming back negative, so now Casey doesn't even know who the father is. Casey was dumping Caylee off on whoever would take her, including Cindy about once a week at her work. Cindy is financially supporting Caylee and Casey. The extended family knew a lot of what was going on, and families talk.
We have statements about some of the things Cindy was saying about and to Casey before she found out Caylee was missing, and it wasn't anywhere near what she is saying now, how Casey was a perfect mother :sick:, etc. It was some pretty ugly stuff. Caylee was a mistake, Casey is a sociopath, etc. I sincerely doubt this kind of talk was rare.
IMO, Casey saw Caylee as a burden. All this from her mother wasn't making things better. IMO, it's possible Cindy nitpicked a lot of what Casey did regarding Caylee as well.
Cindy posted the "Caylee is Missing" blog. Casey maybe responded to that with her "Diary of Days" blog. IMO, the "On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken", refers back to something Cindy said about Caylee, like she would be better of not being born, or something along those lines. I feel Casey killed Caylee out of spite towards Cindy. I don't think it was completely a moment of rage, but more something that had been building for some time. I think Casey had a broad plan of what she was going to do for several months, and was just building up the courage, or waiting for the right time, or maybe even thinking to herself, "One more time, Mom, and see what happens" kind of thing. The right time could have been being close enough with someone to have a place to go (TonE) or the 'one more time' could have been the alleged fight on June 15th.
Lanie

:wave: From the evidence I've seen to date, that's pretty well exactly my theory too, Lanie.

 

[Jolynna]

I can buy mentally ill but not insane. I cannot buy "she could have thought all that time that Caylee was with someone who wouldn't harm her". IMHO.

I do think JB is acting in his own best interest and NOT KC's. Every step of the way this case has escalated in stakes and the DP could return, KC should have plead out as an accident or manslaughter. She *might* get off on a technicality or the sympathetic one juror BUT she is prolonging her agony and fate, risking another break in the case as this plays out in the media.

I am not sure an "accident" is even a possibility. The duct tape, most likely, sealed Casey's fate.

LE and the state knows from the forensics whether or not Caylee was struggling and trying to breathe while the duct tape was over her mouth. If Casey put the duct tape over Casey's hair, she didn't intend for the duct tape to ever come off.

Casey's best bet would have been a deal BEFORE Caylee was found.

I agree that Casey isn't insane. I also agree that it's not a possibility for Casey to have "left" Caylee with someone "else".

As LE told Cindy in the interviews, LE knows where Casey was and who she talked to. They've had her phone records and pings since early in the investigation.

JMO

 

[suepitzl]

she could have duct taped caylee b4 the nap at LA's, ( to keep her from screaming, if she woke up) then when she realized she had died and at some point b4 she "bagged her' SHE PUT THE HEART STICKER ON. sICK i KNOW

 

[Steely Dan]

Snipped for brevity.

I always leaned strongly toward an accident theory until the body was found with the tape on. To me the tape means that Caylee was assaulted and murdered. It seems very unlikely to me if KC were the perpetrator that she would leave the tape on, or that she would drive around with the body in the trunk and not dispose of it immediately, it (seems like she would only do that if she didn't know at first that Caylee's body was in the trunk, or if the body had been placed there and then moved without her knowledge or involvement. She lived with lots of people and hung out at the club with lots of people, I can't rule out someone accessing her car.) I also can't rule out KC killing Caylee but I see no reason for a premeditated murder, and find even an un-premeditated murder unlikely, maybe if she was really tripping on drugs. Still undecided.

With all of the evidence pointing to KC I'm pretty sure she did it. I used to lean toward the accident explanation too but the duct tape is extremely hard to explain in an accident theory.

I am not sure an "accident" is even a possibility. The duct tape, most likely, sealed Casey's fate.

LE and the state knows from the forensics whether or not Caylee was struggling and trying to breathe while the duct tape was over her mouth. If Casey put the duct tape over Casey's hair, she didn't intend for the duct tape to ever come off.

Casey's best bet would have been a deal BEFORE Caylee was found.

I agree that Casey isn't insane. I also agree that it's not a possibility for Casey to have "left" Caylee with someone "else".

As LE told Cindy in the interviews, LE knows where Casey was and who she talked to. They've had her phone records and pings since early in the investigation.

JMO

IMO, she'd gotten away with so many lies for such a long time that she was convinced she'd get away with this too.

 

[kageykaren]

I' noticed that when there is a lull in the KC saga we posters tend to take off sluething hats and start feeling confused with our compassion, forgetting KC behaviors while out shopping with forged checks, partying and keeping up on her love life. I'm a softy and my mind wants to try and understand kC's actions but when faced with her acting out behaviors it takes me back to using Spock Logic and then I'm able to see a sad situation going on in the home resulting in KC acting out in a murderess way.

 

[Doodlelover]

I' noticed that when there is a lull in the KC saga we posters tend to take off sluething hats and start feeling confused with our compassion, forgetting KC behaviors while out shopping with forged checks, partying and keeping up on her love life. I'm a softy and my mind wants to try and understand kC's actions but when faced with her acting out behaviors it takes me back to using Spock Logic and then I'm able to see a sad situation going on in the home resulting in KC acting out in a murderess way.

Kageykaren

You are exactly right. Us "normal" people, me included, want to find a reason, an excuse, anything to explain the senseless murder of a child, but when we go back to the facts, the evidence, the videos of KCs behavior before, during and after Caylee was reported missing, we have to face the truth, it most likely was a purposeful murder as hard as that is to face. Sooo sad.

 

[seagull65]

I think the defense have to do a lot more than just say somebody might have done it.

They have to propose an alternative and present some sort of support and evidence.

Based on Reasonable doubt, not Irrational suposition

It's the prosecution who have to prove that the defendant committed the crime. :waitasec:

 

[EgyptNug]

But like you, I am not 100% sure that it was not accidental. The only thing that throws me is the duct tape. Even if it was accidental, I firmly believe that it was from neglect. From her busy talking on the phone while Caylee was asleep in the car in the garage or something. To me it is still KC's fault.

My theory is that she did leave the morning of the 16th as George said but she went to Lee's to wait until George went to work so she could come back to the house. I think this happened often as a cover for "work" I think she either medicated Caylee so she would nap at Lee's and quickly left Lee's to go over to the A's to pick up some of her stuff and when she got back to Lee's Caylee was gone from overdose, OR, she drove back from Lee's and Caylee fell asleep in the car and since she had no plans to stay at the A's, was just picking up some stuff, left Caylee in the car while she backed into the garage, she went into the house, got sidetracked on the computer or phone with JG or AH and when she finally went back out to check on Caylee she was gone from the heat if the car was off, or Carbon monoxide in the garage if she left the car on so that Caylee would have air conditioning.

I think she freaked out and rushed her to the pool to cool her down, but it was too late. She left the gate out in her panic and after she plunged Caylee into the pool, she laid her down beside the pool, thus the dogs hit here. She again quickly moved her over to the more private area of the yard, the playhouse area and layed here there and ran in the house and made a flurry of calls, none of which were answered. She knew she couldn't call 911, CA would never forgive her for causing Caylee's death. She went into automatic coverup mode and put her in the trunk. This I think is where the choloform may come from. The wet pool water and a combination of cleaning products later on.

Sorry this is so long. But that's my theory.

Thank you for sharing. I think it is important that we hear from those with other theories.

Question: How would your theory explain the computer searches for chloroform done a couple months before?

 

[Tom'sGirl]

continue to post and discuss your theories here. leave the attacks and off topic chit chat at the door.

* * * bump * * *​

 

[JBean]

knock off the bickering in here. You know who you are. if you do not like how someone is addressing you then alert and scroll past. the minute you engage it becomes mutual combat and you are all on notice.
KNOCK IT OFF>

 

[Tinsel]

I agree with the Dr. Purpur from Nancy Grace show that the tape shows homicide. I don't believe anyone, even half crazy, would duct tape a child of that age that was intended to live because 1) the child would have told her grandparents, even if she could only use baby talk and tears, and 2) it would have left a terrible rash, and 3) it would not easily come out of the hair. So, I believe it was premeditated murder by a scatter-brained, criminal mind who does not have a normally developed conscience or empathy level.

 

[JBean]

Since when would the defense have to propose or prove who did it? It's the prosecution who have to prove that the defendant committed the crime. :waitasec:

This is correct. The entire burden is on the state to prove that the accused is guilty.

 

[Doodlelover]

Thank you for sharing. I think it is important that we hear from those with other theories.

Question: How would your theory explain the computer searches for chloroform done a couple months before?

The chloroform search was so short, I think it just might have been Casey wondering what the heck RM picture on myspace the one that says something like win her over with chloroform, that's not exactly what is says but something like that. I think Casey saw it and being not the brightest bulb, googled it to see what chloroform was.

I think it was just a cooincidence. I don't think the concentration of chloroform found in the car was enough to do anything. Mixing pool water and some cleaning chemicals might be enough. Also chloroform is a VERY dangerous substance to be making or messing around with, I just cannot see Casey doing this, it would be too tedious. She may have used Xanax or benadryl or something, I just don't think it was chloroform.

I DO think she toyed around in her fantasy mind about taking her parents out. She googled too many violent words like neck breaking (but I also think this is the band that some of TL friends were in. I think they were called something like neck breakers.

In the end I'm not 100% it was an accident. I'm not against it being in a fit of rage either, in fact with her borderline personality it's totally possible even probable.

This case sure is baffling though.

 

[Rumpole]

This is correct. The entire burden is on the state to prove that the accused is guilty.

It is a standard defense technique to proffer an alternative senario and perpertrator of the crime, and thus put the seeds of reasonable doubt in the jury's mind. A defense lawyer would only propose a senario which is likely and rational based on the evidence, else it would not effectively sway the thinking of the jury.

 

[Pattymarie]

There is absolutely NO evidence whatsoever to prove that someone else did it, other than the mother.

 

[Rumpole]

There is absolutely NO evidence whatsoever to prove that someone else did it, other than the mother.

I agree wholeheartedly.

To come to any other conclusion you need to fail to see a lot of the evidence.