Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #6 (New Smoking Gun Theories for DP)

[MAMABEAR]

I'm thinking that CA was playing nice with KC, so that she would be able to see Caylee. At that point I believe CA thought KC was keeping Caylee from her just to make her suffer. So she had to kiss KC's *advertiser censored** in order to see her Caylee again.
There was more than one effort on CA's part to contact KC through MS, although I dont believe we have seen the content of those other messages yet.

I've been in a similar situation, and you have to work really hard to not push the parent further away who has legal custody of the child, if you want to be able to see, and protect that child.
CA should have filed for custody when she knew that KC was not being the kind of parent she needed to be. She gave KC too many chances, and she is living with the consequences of that every single day.
JMO

About the bolded---first off---if there is a need to "protect" the child, then you shouldn't let the child out of the house. Been there done that to.

I have been thru a similar situation myself---I never let my kids know that they could hurt me by withholding the kids from me. It was tried by my bio daughter---let her know right off the bat that if she wanted to leave---fine---leave. She even tried to keep me from kissin the kids bye and I told her to kiss my azz and I kissed them and told them I loved them and would see them sometime. Bio daughter always "returned"---just like a bad penny and I still got to watch the kids grow up. I didn't really want my kids to live at home. A lil piggy needs to make their own way in the world and CA didn't teach KC how to do that.

Even grown kids need to know what is accepted and what isn't. Mine knew that if they didn't take good care of the babies then they had to answer to first me then CPS. I think CA was afraid of KC. Not me---nun ovem put me over a barrel. CA's mistake.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

About the bolded---first off---if there is a need to "protect" the child, then you shouldn't let the child out of the house. Been there done that to.

I have been thru a similar situation myself---I never let my kids know that they could hurt me by withholding the kids from me. It was tried by my bio daughter---let her know right off the bat that if she wanted to leave---fine---leave. She even tried to keep me from kissin the kids bye and I told her to kiss my azz and I kissed them and told them I loved them and would see them sometime. Bio daughter always "returned"---just like a bad penny and I still got to watch the kids grow up. I didn't really want my kids to live at home. A lil piggy needs to make their own way in the world and CA didn't teach KC how to do that.

Even grown kids need to know what is accepted and what isn't. Mine knew that if they didn't take good care of the babies then they had to answer to first me then CPS. I think CA was afraid of KC. Not me---nun ovem put me over a barrel. CA's mistake.

MAMABEAR, I love your posts! A gal after my own heart. :blowkiss:

 

[countzero]

About the bolded---first off---if there is a need to "protect" the child, then you shouldn't let the child out of the house. Been there done that to.

I have been thru a similar situation myself---I never let my kids know that they could hurt me by withholding the kids from me. It was tried by my bio daughter---let her know right off the bat that if she wanted to leave---fine---leave. She even tried to keep me from kissin the kids bye and I told her to kiss my azz and I kissed them and told them I loved them and would see them sometime. Bio daughter always "returned"---just like a bad penny and I still got to watch the kids grow up. I didn't really want my kids to live at home. A lil piggy needs to make their own way in the world and CA didn't teach KC how to do that.

Even grown kids need to know what is accepted and what isn't. Mine knew that if they didn't take good care of the babies then they had to answer to first me then CPS. I think CA was afraid of KC. Not me---nun ovem put me over a barrel. CA's mistake.

Ain't that the truth mama. I have been there right with you.

The legal system is setup to protect the parental rights, not the rights of the minor child. In my state it takes much evidence to bring into the courts to have a child removed from the bio parent. Neglect is hard to prove due to the standards that must be reached for a judge to give custody to a non-custodial person i.e. grandparent, family member. A custodial parent has the right to raise the minor child without interference is first and foremost. Social services can investigate all they want and make recommendations for the bio parent but custody rarely is changed.

CA didn't have a snow balls chance in hell-o to ever get custody of Caylee unless KC signed papers giving her shared custody. And we know that would have never happened. And I believe KC knew this as well as CA.

CA played the wrong rules in the wrong game with KC.

I am hoping against hope that other than KC's DNA on any item found with Caylee, there is DNA from the A clan as well that directly ties them to Caylee's murder.

 

[SleuthyMama]

I'm thinking that CA was playing nice with KC, so that she would be able to see Caylee. At that point I believe CA thought KC was keeping Caylee from her just to make her suffer. So she had to kiss KC's *advertiser censored** in order to see her Caylee again.
There was more than one effort on CA's part to contact KC through MS, although I dont believe we have seen the content of those other messages yet.

I've been in a similar situation, and you have to work really hard to not push the parent further away who has legal custody of the child, if you want to be able to see, and protect that child.
CA should have filed for custody when she knew that KC was not being the kind of parent she needed to be. She gave KC too many chances, and she is living with the consequences of that every single day.
JMO

I don't doubt that part of what you suggest is the case, butwhatif. And I too have been in a similar situation to what you describe having been through yourself. I know what it is like to try and tread lightly around someone for the sake of a child.

What came to me last night though was the thought of people who are similar. It has been my experience that people who are very similar tend to fall into two camps. And I when I say similar I really mean people who are bullsh_t artists but I think the case can be argued for many similarities. Either they love each other and get along thick as thieves. Or, as I think is the case with Cindy and Casey, they actually detest each other because each person sees in the other the things they dislike about themselves the most. Where do we think Casey learned most of her "tricks" from? My vote goes to Cindy on that. I think as much as she detested her mother, she was her mother's daughter. And she learned the traits Cindy displayed every day whether the wanted to or not.

So my point in all that rambling is that even though Cindy probably knows she has to tread lightly if she ever really needs to get something from Casey, I still think her nicey-nice attempts on MySpace were 90% attempts at humiliating Casey in front of her "audience."

 

[NocturnalLady]

I don't doubt that part of what you suggest is the case, butwhatif. And I too have been in a similar situation to what you describe having been through yourself. I know what it is like to try and tread lightly around someone for the sake of a child.

What came to me last night though was the thought of people who are similar. It has been my experience that people who are very similar tend to fall into two camps. And I when I say similar I really mean people who are bullsh_t artists but I think the case can be argued for many similarities. Either they love each other and get along thick as thieves. Or, as I think is the case with Cindy and Casey, they actually detest each other because each person sees in the other the things they dislike about themselves the most. Where do we think Casey learned most of her "tricks" from? My vote goes to Cindy on that. I think as much as she detested her mother, she was her mother's daughter. And she learned the traits Cindy displayed every day whether the wanted to or not.

So my point in all that rambling is that even though Cindy probably knows she has to tread lightly if she ever really needs to get something from Casey, I still think her nicey-nice attempts on MySpace were 90% attempts at humiliating Casey in front of her "audience."

BBM

ITA. It's as if she thought she could get Casey to come home if only just to stop CA from letting more skeletons out of the closet where it could be seen by Casey's friends.

 

[MissJames]

I'm thinking that CA was playing nice with KC, so that she would be able to see Caylee. At that point I believe CA thought KC was keeping Caylee from her just to make her suffer. So she had to kiss KC's *advertiser censored** in order to see her Caylee again.
There was more than one effort on CA's part to contact KC through MS, although I dont believe we have seen the content of those other messages yet.

I've been in a similar situation, and you have to work really hard to not push the parent further away who has legal custody of the child, if you want to be able to see, and protect that child.
CA should have filed for custody when she knew that KC was not being the kind of parent she needed to be. She gave KC too many chances, and she is living with the consequences of that every single day.
JMO

I just can't see that message as being nice.JMO,but I thought it was a guilt trip laid at KC's feet and included CA pointing out SHE had been Caylee's provider and KC owed her.Cindy was laying claim to Caylee in that post .She had every right to post it,given what was going on,but I don't think she was playin' nice.She was stickin' it to KC in public.

 

[Reagan]

I'm thinking that CA was playing nice with KC, so that she would be able to see Caylee. At that point I believe CA thought KC was keeping Caylee from her just to make her suffer. So she had to kiss KC's *advertiser censored** in order to see her Caylee again.
There was more than one effort on CA's part to contact KC through MS, although I dont believe we have seen the content of those other messages yet.

I've been in a similar situation, and you have to work really hard to not push the parent further away who has legal custody of the child, if you want to be able to see, and protect that child.
CA should have filed for custody when she knew that KC was not being the kind of parent she needed to be. She gave KC too many chances, and she is living with the consequences of that every single day.
JMO

As much as cindy wanted claim over caylee, remember, she still complained to her co-workers about having her too often. I think she wanted caylee to be her own, but didn't want every single responsibility that comes with a child.
Same with kc. Caylee was hers but she didn't want the responsibility either.

Well, they sorta got what they wanted...

 

[SleuthyMama]

I think you had two control freaks fighting for the ultimate control over one precious little girl. And Caylee paid the price in the end.

That's why I've said Casey and Cindy are soooooo much alike that that is part of where their animosity stems from. They each see exactly what the other is made of. And they DETEST it.

 

[essies]

I just can't see that message as being nice.JMO,but I thought it was a guilt trip laid at KC's feet and included CA pointing out SHE had been Caylee's provider and KC owed her.Cindy was laying claim to Caylee in that post .She had every right to post it,given what was going on,but I don't think she was playin' nice.She was stickin' it to KC in public.

ITA!! Cindy was way pizzed off as she had just been stood up at Universal where she was supposed to pick up Caylee for the 4th of July! Cindy wrote that cause she was :banghead:and venting! IMO

 

[cecybeans]

My guess as to the smoking gun, if there is one, would be Caylee's prints/fingernails/mucas on the original layer of the tape. No parent who cares about their kid (despite what they are going through) duct tapes their kid's mouth shut. Sorry, AL, but if I were for the DP, I would advocate that the same be done to your client, KC. Boo hoo.

You're so right LB - and that type of possible antemortem/perimortem evidence has been tentatively discussed on here and other forums (particularly since there is such a glaring omission in the docs - clearing the tape of LA/CA/GA prints but mentioning nothing of either KC or Caylee). It would certainly be the best smoking gun I can think of because it would prove Caylee was alive at the time, struggled and KC sealed her fate (and the definition of premeditated murder) if her own prints appear on the outermost piece of duct tape.

I'm sure if that is the case, and would certainly be a significant "smoking gun", AL is already in charge of the defense and has finally put a gag on BB (I will resist tasteless puns) and anyone else involved, which she would have done from day one imo if she even agreed to be involved. The sudden relative silence of both the Anthonys from the press (at least involving discusssion representing their family case) and the defense team, leads me to think a professional is now at the helm and has warned all players that she is officially in charge of communications; any deviation from that would make her job impossible, particularly if what you suspect above is true. Since she may be their last chance, perhaps they are deciding to cooperate finally. Not to mention the fact it would effectively reduce the SODDI defense to swill (not that it isn't already, and even if it wasn't it is certainly not part of AL's strategy or tactics) - particulary if both Caylee's and KC's prints are the only ones found on the tape. That would mean only one thing in AL's keeping KC off a DP charge, which is her well-documented MO of creating sympathy for her defendants by appealing to the jury about "mitigating factors" in either their mental health or family environment, not to exonerate them from the crime but simply to keep them from being executed.

If that's the case, CA and GA should start preparing to be sporting large tire tracks on their persons throughout the trial. I certainly hope your guess here is intuitive; it would solve a lot of problems very quickly.

 

[Searchfortruth]

If there are prints from Caylee on that tape, AL better wow the jury because that's the type of crime the DP was made for. If Casey's prints are on there it would be just gravy, IMO, there's already enough, more than enough linking her to the crime (but, yeah her prints on the tape would be nice).

 

[DotsEyes]

I don't think that fingerprints would still be on the tape after 6 months in water. I don't think that any one thing in particular made the SA change course and decide to go for a death sentence. It was more than likely the totality of the evidence that led to this decision.

 

[travelgal]

The duct tape found with Caylee's remains is discussed here by Asleigh Banfield on JVM's show, Dec 11, 2008 :

BANFIELD: I just want to add to that duct tape thing, because duct tape is a really, really good piece of evidence. As Jayne mentioned, you might have fingerprints on it. But guess what else gets stuck to duct tape? Everything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.

BANFIELD: Hair, fibers, shreds from your own clothing that you`re wearing. That kind of stuff is just golden for an investigation. So immediately what you want to do is go and see if you can find anything that matches what you find on the duct tape in the different areas of interest in this investigation.

I don't remember if this was noted in other threads here or doc reports, but we can hope that some fibers, and most importantly some trace of KC have survived the water. However, I did some research on "duct tape" and everything I found so far states fingerprints survive well in water on the tape. I just haven't found anything reporting how LONG the prints on the tape can survive submerged in water.

 

[MAMABEAR]

The prints could be between the layers of duct tape---stuck on the other piece and that would hold them in place no matter how much water. I have thought there were prints on the duct tape ever since one doc dump said that CA/GA/LA's prints weren't on the tape. They never said that KC's was excluded nor Caylee's.

 

[AZlawyer]

The prints could be between the layers of duct tape---stuck on the other piece and that would hold them in place no matter how much water. I have thought there were prints on the duct tape ever since one doc dump said that CA/GA/LA's prints weren't on the tape. They never said that KC's was excluded nor Caylee's.

The document said there were no prints AT ALL found on the tape, so there was no comparison done to CA/GA/LA's prints. But if there are no prints at all, obviously there are no prints belonging to KC or Caylee either.

There is a recent post about this in the Myth Busters thread with links to the document.

 

[butwhatif?]

I don't doubt that part of what you suggest is the case, butwhatif. And I too have been in a similar situation to what you describe having been through yourself. I know what it is like to try and tread lightly around someone for the sake of a child.

What came to me last night though was the thought of people who are similar. It has been my experience that people who are very similar tend to fall into two camps. And I when I say similar I really mean people who are bullsh_t artists but I think the case can be argued for many similarities. Either they love each other and get along thick as thieves. Or, as I think is the case with Cindy and Casey, they actually detest each other because each person sees in the other the things they dislike about themselves the most. Where do we think Casey learned most of her "tricks" from? My vote goes to Cindy on that. I think as much as she detested her mother, she was her mother's daughter. And she learned the traits Cindy displayed every day whether the wanted to or not.

So my point in all that rambling is that even though Cindy probably knows she has to tread lightly if she ever really needs to get something from Casey, I still think her nicey-nice attempts on MySpace were 90% attempts at humiliating Casey in front of her "audience."

My bold- I couldnt disagree more. I believe she learnt alot of her negative behaviours from her dad. The stealing, and lying in particular.
Even after this all came out, GA was trying to keep alot of things from CA, and I think this is how the household usually ran.
"Just dont get caught by mum- she doesnt have to know about this", kinda thing. She was being sent two different messages by each parent and this is where part of the problem lays. There was no united front with GA and CA.

I think CA did have high expectations of her children, but dont we all want the best for them? For them to grow into the best person they can be? Unfortunately it seems that CA would make threats and not carry through with them, and that was her downfall.
The tragic thing about this is when CA did finally put her foot down it ended in tragedy.
And I have to apologise since I hadnt read the whole thread, my thoughts were not specific to the ms message, but their relationship in general at that time. But I do think the ms message is a guilt trip directed at KC in an effort to see Caylee again, and it had a definate passive agressive theme.
JMO
ETA: just realised how far off topic this thread has become.....sorry.

 

[Searchfortruth]

The document said there were no prints AT ALL found on the tape, so there was no comparison done to CA/GA/LA's prints. But if there are no prints at all, obviously there are no prints belonging to KC or Caylee either.

There is a recent post about this in the Myth Busters thread with links to the document.

Now that you say this I can remember (barely) reading that months back...that's due to either my age or the huge volume of info in this case, either way I am forgetting key evidence. By the time trial gets here I may have nothing left...

 

[cecybeans]

The document said there were no prints AT ALL found on the tape, so there was no comparison done to CA/GA/LA's prints. But if there are no prints at all, obviously there are no prints belonging to KC or Caylee either.

There is a recent post about this in the Myth Busters thread with links to the document.

Thanks for bringing that up; for some reason I had not come away with the impression that ALL latent prints were eliminated. However, that being said, if the first layer of duct tape proved it was scratched or clawed at, had tiny fingernail impressions, or had any traces of dna showing Caylee was alive (such as teeth marks or saliva or vomit that was preserved by the top layers of tape), and there were either fibers from the home or from KC's clothing in between the layers, or fingernail impressions from KC - that would indicate ante/peri-mortem application and pretty much narrow down who did the taping, I'd think.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Thanks for bringing that up; for some reason I had not come away with the impression that ALL latent prints were eliminated. However, that being said, if the first layer of duct tape proved it was scratched or clawed at, had tiny fingernail impressions, or had any traces of dna showing Caylee was alive (such as teeth marks or saliva or vomit that was preserved by the top layers of tape), and there were either fibers from the home or from KC's clothing in between the layers, or fingernail impressions from KC - that would indicate ante/peri-mortem application and pretty much narrow down who did the taping, I'd think.

I hope there is some direct evidence on the tape that we haven't been privy to yet. But it seems like fibers from anything from the Anthony house would only be circumstantial evidence (which we already have plenty of).

I say this because my husband can't stand to throw anything away that he thinks could have some future use to us (or even our two adult children). I bet he must have at least 5 partially used rolls of duct tape in his messy garage!! Each roll, I'm sure has a history of its own that it could tell ~ because it carries it on the edges of the roll of tape. I must remember to make sure he doesn't try to sell any at a garage sale as I imagine they have picked up much evidence from our house that could implicate us in some nefarious scheme.

The fibers could tell us that it was connected to the Anthony house but doesn't the tape on the gas can already do pretty much that? Have the forensics folks been able to analyze that and make a perfect match yet or do we only know that it's the same brand?

 

[I Din Doot]

I am still under the impression that there were fingerprints on the tape. Some prints were SPECIFICALLY excluded and others were not mentioned. I'm sticking with the theory that there are fingerprints on the tape that came from KC's fingers!!