Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[Eileen730]

I have a question for all of you.

If you had a granddaughter and your daughter took off with her for weeks at a time wouldnt you all be concerned?

I mean whats going on here with this family? Id be out searching the streets id be at my daughters job. Id be after the NANNY! Maybe then they wolud have found out there was no JOB there was no Zanny! She was stealing money and the lies are just so out of controll!

If this was an accident 911 would have been called and im sure they would have figured out that it was an accident ,,, but this wasnt,,, Its been covered up and i think KC really started to believe her own lies....

I cant wait for this case to finally go to court!

 

[Solace]

I have a question for all of you.

If you had a granddaughter and your daughter took off with her for weeks at a time wouldnt you all be concerned?

I mean whats going on here with this family? Id be out searching the streets id be at my daughters job. Id be after the NANNY! Maybe then they wolud have found out there was no JOB there was no Zanny! She was stealing money and the lies are just so out of controll!

If this was an accident 911 would have been called and im sure they would have figured out that it was an accident ,,, but this wasnt,,, Its been covered up and i think KC really started to believe her own lies....

I cant wait for this case to finally go to court!

Eileen,

In Shirley Pleasea's e-mails (Cindy's mother) she mentions the "bogus" phone numbers and how distraught Cindy is about not seeing Caylee and they think KC is keeping her from Cindy for spite as she had done in the past. There is no doubt in my mind that Cindy called the numbers she had and found out they were bogus. So she had a number for Zannie. Are we to believe she did not call that number. She gave it to LE she said the night or following day (June 15 or 16). If that is even true. I never heard mention of it from LE after that.

They had gone through this with Ricardo Morales about six months prior and it went on for two or three months - stayng out with Caylee five nights a week - there is no reason for him to lie. Cindy says she never stayed out more than once or twice a month.

Either way, you would never let her take Caylee, ESPECIALLY IF YOU KNEW SHE WAS NOT WORKING for the past two years. And she knew it. Geoerge told Cindy this and Cindy did not want to pursue it.

I can only think she was afraid to take the child and thought she might lose her for good and she did not want to alienate KC. But she told Ryan Paisley to stay away from KC that she was a sociopath.

Totally bizarre - all of it.

P.S. I remember telling my son about the case and he went whaaaaat 31 days. Wait a minute was the child a part of the grandparents life? I said she lived with them. And his next question "and they let her leave for 31 days without knowing where she was?

 

[Eidetic]

I think a shovel would have been a very awkward tool to use to lift a dead body the size of Caylee (in rigor or not), and to somehow guide it into a plastic bag.

****warning graphic****

:sick: What about if the shovel were also used as a tool to scoop up parts that had begun to slip off/disarticulate or purposefully reduce the size of the relatively small body you were trying to move since it was likely falling apart? Caylee's poor body was like a whole chicken that had been in a slow cooker. Imagine pulling that chicken out in one whole piece after it's been going several hours, it is going to fall off the bone and become a project. :sick:

When I think of a shovel, I think of driving it into the ground or through roots or whatever causes resistance, forcefully with your foot and/or then using it to scoop and move your intentions from one point to another.

 

[Eileen730]

Eileen,

In Shirley Pleasea's e-mails (Cindy's mother) she mentions the "bogus" phone numbers and how distraught Cindy is about not seeing Caylee and they think KC is keeping her from Cindy for spite as she had done in the past. There is no doubt in my mind that Cindy called the numbers she had and found out they were bogus. So she had a number for Zannie. Are we to believe she did not call that number. She gave it to LE she said the night or following day (June 15 or 16). If that is even true. I never heard mention of it from LE after that.

They had gone through this with Ricardo Morales about six months prior and it went on for two or three months - stayng out with Caylee five nights a week - there is no reason for him to lie. Cindy says she never stayed out more than once or twice a month.

Either way, you would never let her take Caylee, ESPECIALLY IF YOU KNEW SHE WAS NOT WORKING for the past two years. And she knew it. Geoerge told Cindy this and Cindy did not want to pursue it.

I can only think she was afraid to take the child and thought she might lose her for good and she did not want to alienate KC. But she told Ryan Paisley to stay away from KC that she was a sociopath.

Totally bizarre - all of it.

P.S. I remember telling my son about the case and he went whaaaaat 31 days. Wait a minute was the child a part of the grandparents life? I said she lived with them. And his next question "and they let her leave for 31 days without knowing where she was?

It is very bizarre!

Id have called that zanny the nanny way before anything happend to caylee
Id want to know who she was and where she was what her references were.
Id love to know if GA and CA were giving KC money to pay the nanny being that she didnt have A job???????

 

[Solace]

It is very bizarre!

Id have called that zanny the nanny way before anything happend to caylee
Id want to know who she was and where she was what her references were.
Id love to know if GA and CA were giving KC money to pay the nanny being that she didnt have A job???????

Eileen,

There is no nannie. KC was stealing daily from Cindy; sometimes as much as 3,000 a month.

George was asked by State Attorneys "Is it safe to say Caylee was the center of the household?" Answer "oh yes, she lit up the house".

And a few more questions and then: So did you get a phone number for Zannie who was taking care of Caylee (who was the center of your life)? George, no I left that to Cindy. So the number that Cindy had for Zannie, she gave to LE, she says the night of June 15th. I have never heard anything about it since. Do you believe she never tried that number? I don't. I think she called it and knew it was bogus.

Lee had numbers for people that KC gave him the night of the 15th and they turned out to be bogus. Once he got off the phone with Brittany, a neighbor who lived across the street. He called back shortly and asked for a different person and Brittan said Lee, it is me, Brittany. KC gave him a Brittany's number for another person.

Cindy didn't need references since it was clear that Caylee was so well taken care of. She didn't need the babysitters number because (and I swear she said it) she never thought she would need to get in touch with the babysitter and that if the sitter needed her, she would get in touch with her. She said she was not concerned about anything happening to Caylee; she only thought the sitter might need them. Riggggggggggggggt. Cindy. And we are all idiots and we believe you.

Cindy had to know for a while that the numbers were bogus, but she did not know how to handle it or for some weird psychological reason liked the situation as it was; it kept KC nearby and without any real money to speak of so that she needed Cindy and it kept Caylee nearby although not protected by Cindy. And she let that happen.

I never use to think it was a psychological reason that Cindy let this happen, but the situation is so bad and KC so destructive that for Cindy to let this continue there has to be some weird need by Cindy to be treated like chit and keep KC close.

 

[pip]

****warning graphic****

:sick: What about if the shovel were also used as a tool to scoop up parts that had begun to slip off/disarticulate or purposefully reduce the size of the relatively small body you were trying to move since it was likely falling apart? Caylee's poor body was like a whole chicken that had been in a slow cooker. Imagine pulling that chicken out in one whole piece after it's been going several hours, it is going to fall off the bone and become a project. :sick:

When I think of a shovel, I think of driving it into the ground or through roots or whatever causes resistance, forcefully with your foot and/or then using it to scoop and move your intentions from one point to another.

Thanks for the GRAPHIC WARNING. Still recovering here.
Something would have been found on that shovel for a 'job' like what you describe, imo.. Some dirt was still on it, BB said it didn't look rinsed or possibly even used.

 

[Gma Kat]

I was re-reading Diane Fanning's book for the zillionth time, and for some reason while re-reading the part about June 15th it struck me that perhaps that night CA finally put her foot down. Perhaps she did kick ICA out BUT KEPT CAYLEE.........MAYBE she was finally going to do what her therapist suggested. Could it be that ICA returned to the A's home and removed Caylee without their knowledge 6/16??????? It would explain some of the cryptic comments the family has made over the years. Perhaps CA had kicked ICA out before and kept Caylee.........and this was "JUST LIKE BEFORE?" as LA questioned ICA in the jailhouse tapes........"Yep, just like before LA......Mom kicked me out and kept my daughter.......but I SHOWED HER THIS TIME!"

 

[joypath]

****warning graphic****

:sick: What about if the shovel were also used as a tool to scoop up parts that had begun to slip off/disarticulate or purposefully reduce the size of the relatively small body you were trying to move since it was likely falling apart? Caylee's poor body was like a whole chicken that had been in a slow cooker. Imagine pulling that chicken out in one whole piece after it's been going several hours, it is going to fall off the bone and become a project. :sick:

When I think of a shovel, I think of driving it into the ground or through roots or whatever causes resistance, forcefully with your foot and/or then using it to scoop and move your intentions from one point to another.

:twocents: Interesting concept but I'm :innocent: disagreeing that it is a probable. 1. That shovel appears to be a heavy, solid item that would be unwieldy to maneuver within the trunk space by a 5' or so female who's claim to fame is AVOIDING physical labor. 2. If Caylee were within the bags, I believe that the felon would damage the bags and major decomp fluid and more significantly, body tissue would be expelled. 3. Going back to #2, even if Caylee were wrapped within the blanket and her corpse were dissolving, this shovel probably would leave body tissue shreds within the vehicle and 4. Had the shovel been in contact with bare flesh, given the "nooks & crannies" on the unit as it is attached to the handle, SOME body tissue and thus DNA would have been present even if the shovel were rinsed off. (I'm ASSUMING that the felon did not pressure wash the shovel with bleach or some other protease detergent!).

:twocents: The positioning of the body parts at the dump site seems to indicate that the corpse was discharged while semi-intact within some containment. Regarding the "icky" factor, from personal experience I'm :innocent: comfortable in stating that for some killers the condition of the victim's mortal remains does NOT bother them in the least, after all there's a mission to accomplish for the killer to achieve his/her goal.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Patty G]

Bumping up

 

[ZsaZsa]

Well according to CA there was no accident:-
Watch this video, starting at 5.20 - she denies it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4bKGn4Kp6M&feature=youtu.be

 

[azwriter]

When I think back to the very beginning of this tragedy, I recall that Cindy, George and Casey were quick to point to June 9th as being the last day Caylee was seen. Do you all remember that?

It wasn't until cops viewed the video maybe a day of two later of Caylee visiting her great grandfather on Father's day that the actual date came to light as to the last time Caylee was with her family. The "oh, yeah" date.

I have always wondered why the Anthony family jumped on the June 9th date. Did they all care so little about that little girl that they couldn't connect her disappearance with the real date? Or were they just confused on the actual date of Father's Day?

I don't think the Anthony's gave the wrong date on purpose, but it sure makes me wonder how they could mix up the dates so easily. How could Cindy herself not remember Caylee's visit that Father's Day? Caylee sang a song and appeared so loving to her great grandfather. I would have counted that day as something very special, very precious. But they couldn't keep it straight.
jmo

 

[Skully]

Lots of things "bother me" about this case, but one action is not only weird, but perplexing as to when it occurred and that is the heart sticker. If Caylee was killed the night of the fight, you have to wonder where she was killed if not at home. I am leaning towards KC's bedroom because of the sticker. I believe KC came back home with Caylee and went into her her room and knocked Caylee out with Chloroform then duck-taped her so she couldn't breath. Once it was over, she put a heart sticker on the tape. She had to have gone to the garage to get the tape and laundry bag, back to her room and then put Caylee inside of it. Once that was done, she took her out to the truck of the car where she realized at some time, that the body was leaking and making a smell. I think she then put her in the garbage bags to keep some of it under control. Buy day 3 or 4 she had to get rid of the body from the truck. She then realized the smell was not going to go away and putting trash in the car was not going to mask the smell of a body and got rid of the car at Amscot. The rest is history. But to sit and watch as your child dies, and then calmly put a sticker on the tape, over the mouth area is beyond cold.

I may not have it all in order or right as to the actions of what happened but the sticker, well she had to have one handy. KWIM:maddening:

 

[Frigga]

When I think back to the very beginning of this tragedy, I recall that Cindy, George and Casey were quick to point to June 9th as being the last day Caylee was seen. Do you all remember that?

It wasn't until cops viewed the video maybe a day of two later of Caylee visiting her great grandfather on Father's day that the actual date came to light as to the last time Caylee was with her family. The "oh, yeah" date.

I have always wondered why the Anthony family jumped on the June 9th date. Did they all care so little about that little girl that they couldn't connect her disappearance with the real date? Or were they just confused on the actual date of Father's Day?

I don't think the Anthony's gave the wrong date on purpose, but it sure makes me wonder how they could mix up the dates so easily. How could Cindy herself not remember Caylee's visit that Father's Day? Caylee sang a song and appeared so loving to her great grandfather. I would have counted that day as something very special, very precious. But they couldn't keep it straight.
jmo

AZWriter, you hit on a very important point, one I would like to expound on further, if I may.

I could see it all being just a simple mix-up (Anthony style) of days (the Anthony style is that they are so sure of whatever it is they say)... it wasn't "it may have been the 9th", or "I'm unsure of the exact day, but I think it was the 9th" etc... etc... but the most important clue to me is that never once did Cindy say to the officer's or Detective Melich- "it was Father's Day... whatever day that was... it was the weekend of Father's Day"! Cindy NEVER said that once in that 24-48 hour period of time! That says it all to me. Why would they want to make it the wrong date? Hmmmm?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

When I think back to the very beginning of this tragedy, I recall that Cindy, George and Casey were quick to point to June 9th as being the last day Caylee was seen. Do you all remember that?

It wasn't until cops viewed the video maybe a day of two later of Caylee visiting her great grandfather on Father's day that the actual date came to light as to the last time Caylee was with her family. The "oh, yeah" date.

I have always wondered why the Anthony family jumped on the June 9th date. Did they all care so little about that little girl that they couldn't connect her disappearance with the real date? Or were they just confused on the actual date of Father's Day?

I don't think the Anthony's gave the wrong date on purpose, but it sure makes me wonder how they could mix up the dates so easily. How could Cindy herself not remember Caylee's visit that Father's Day? Caylee sang a song and appeared so loving to her great grandfather. I would have counted that day as something very special, very precious. But they couldn't keep it straight.
jmo

I do believe there were too many arguments to keep those dates straight. IIRC, ICA blew off CA's birthday with Caylee which is around June5th? if I have that date correct...so that could have been another huge argument but not as huge as the alleged June 15th 2008 one...KWIM??

Also, I feel Fathers Day around the Anthony home, holds no great gratitude or appreciation for this family....JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Frigga]

I would agree with all of that, LLL, except that was the last happy, fun-filled day CA spent with Caylee before the inmate absconded with her... she REMEMBERED!

Her only intent by lying may have been purely to keep all of the information (and detectives) from reaching the old folks home and CA's Ma and Pa, but even if that is the reason- ask yourself this... why would it be more important to keep officers from interviewing your parents than it would be to have an accurate date of "abduction"... CA and KC are like mirror images of one another in some of their lies and behaviors! MOO!

 

[countzero]

I would agree with all of that, LLL, except that was the last happy, fun-filled day CA spent with Caylee before the inmate absconded with her... she REMEMBERED!

Her only intent by lying may have been purely to keep all of the information (and detectives) from reaching the old folks home and CA's Ma and Pa, but even if that is the reason- ask yourself this... why would it be more important to keep officers from interviewing your parents than it would be to have an accurate date of "abduction"... CA and KC are like mirror images of one another in some of their lies and behaviors! MOO!

Adding to this; let's not forget that CA gave YM a severe tongue lashing about visiting her father. You're spot on. CA was more concerned about that than Caylee being found at all.

 

[CBTampa]

I know that there is quite a few threads on theories of what happen to Caylee.

I was watching Nancy Grace tonight and it wasn't one thing in particular that had me thinking about this, but a lot of things.

So here is my thoughts on what happened.

I think that KC had put Caylee down for a nap. Couple of hours to text, get on the computer and talk on her phone, or whatever else she wanted. This was her time. How dare Caylee interrupt her. I think that Caylee threw a huge tantrum. I seem to remember that there was a lot of talk about KC not being able to get Caylee to sleep without going through a routine. Didn't CA say that she had called KC home because she couldn't get Caylee to sleep? My grandaughter is just a month older than Caylee was at the time. A almost three year old can throw a huge tamtrum at times. I have heard my grandaughter do this and I couldn['t believe how long it went on. It is just something that they go through and outgrow eventually. It is tough on a young parent. I think this is what happen and ICA flew into a rage with her. We have seen ICA fly into the rages with her parents in the jail house tapes. The signs are there. Perhaps put the duct tape on her because she was so mad that she wouldn't stop throwing her tamtrum and interupting her time. I think that her rage cause her daughter's death.

If you had called anyone, she still would have been charged with murder and the only thing that she could do is go into this coverup mode. IMO

 

[zippitydoda]

I would agree with all of that, LLL, except that was the last happy, fun-filled day CA spent with Caylee before the inmate absconded with her... she REMEMBERED!

Her only intent by lying may have been purely to keep all of the information (and detectives) from reaching the old folks home and CA's Ma and Pa, but even if that is the reason- ask yourself this... why would it be more important to keep officers from interviewing your parents than it would be to have an accurate date of "abduction"... CA and KC are like mirror images of one another in some of their lies and behaviors! MOO!

Or CA knew exactly what happened the night of the 15th, the alleged fight with ICA, and wanted to stay as far away from that night as possible so that LE would not think the fight had set this horrible situation in motion. Perhaps CA's thinking at that time was - Caylee is missing, and she just wanted to find her, what would one more week matter? It had already been 31 days....

I thought her pushing YM off about providing her Dad's name was more of a CA control and mislead thing. She has behaved this way regarding other important matters, i.e. refusing to give him her JC Penny statements, because she determined that "there was nothing there”, denying that there were other credit cards that ICA had ran up, stating that ICA “borrowed” $ 20 here and $20 there, when she knew ICA had pilfered tens of thousands over the years and basically bankrupted them. She did not want LE investigating her daughter at all, and was not going to give them anything incriminating to help them.

 

[quadlatte]

Thanks for bumping up the theory thread couldn't find it. :blowkiss:

Moved my post from the other thread and added thoughts.


I have always wondered if Caylee did die that Sunday in the pool or around it at some time before/during/after the big fight Casey and Cindy had.
May someone did try to resuscitated Caylee. Could of been by Casey (and maybe even Cindy), could be why the the dogs hit in the yard. At some point a dead Caylee was out there. Maybe Casey drugged her and left her there after the fight, maybe hid her in the play house and when she returned she was already dead?

Then was put in the deep freezer in the garage. It also make me think of when Casey told Cindy "What do you mean you don't know what is going on". Something to that effect. I have always felt that Cindy knew some or all that happen to Caylee, and maybe she was the one that came up with the so called script. Just a theory.. I know she sounded frantic on the 911 call, but who's to say she is not a great actress? It took 3 calls to 911 and I found that odd as well.

Maybe Casey took everything out of the freezer in the garage put Caylee in the freezer and came back a few days later and took her out after she thought over what she was going to do. Could be why she backed into the garage. Maybe after that she drove with Caylee in the car a few days and when she noticed the smell that is when she just dumped Caylee near the house? Could of been the day she text Amy about getting rid of the dead squirrel.
I also wondered why she had all the frozen food + bags from her house in her hands when Tony picked her up. Or am I dreaming I read that? It's been so long ago. My point is if Caylee was frozen a day or two it could of slowed down her decomposition and Casey may not of noticed the smell until Caylee was defrosted. :sick: Sorry don't mean to sound so graphic and sick. Poor Caylee.. May she RIP and Justice be served!

I know that some respected posters have refuted the theory, but I have not thrown out the freezer being a temporary storage place for poor Caylee for the reason I bolded above...

Also, I would postulate that in such a small freezer it would take days to weeks until a small human would be frozen solid enough for her bones to forensically show evidence of having been frozen (ie. osteocytes displaying characteristic freeze/thaw irregularities, etc.).

I think only her soft tissue would have frozen solid (and the purge fluids) which would have bought some time on the timeline for the decomp smell. The freezer would have had to be working overtime to accomplish even that much, IMO.

So I'm not throwing out the freezer storing theory myself either.:twocents:

 

[katydid23]

I know that some respected posters have refuted the theory, but I have not thrown out the freezer being a temporary storage place for poor Caylee for the reason I bolded above...

Also, I would postulate that in such a small freezer it would take days to weeks until a small human would be frozen solid enough for her bones to forensically show evidence of having been frozen (ie. osteocytes displaying characteristic freeze/thaw irregularities, etc.).

I think only her soft tissue would have frozen solid (and the purge fluids) which would have bought some time on the timeline for the decomp smell. The freezer would have had to be working overtime to accomplish even that much, IMO.

So I'm not throwing out the freezer storing theory myself either.:twocents:

But wouldn't she be afraid that her parents might find the body?
Maybe if they had a big full sized freezer in the garage or something. But a top half sized freezer in the kitchen? I don't think so.