Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[Wise Old Owl]

-----
I think ICA had enough of (her perception) of Caylee interfering in ICA's life. I believe she was so jealous of her and I also believe she wanted to pursue a relationship with TL. Up until the 15th, ICA may have used chloroform to sedate Caylee when necessary to spend time with TL since we know Caylee did not spend the night at his apmt with them.

If CA was acting up, and ICA's nerves were shot, and she reached for the chloroform when she knew she couldn't get a babysitter, then thought how much easier it would be without CA in her life. Maybe she decided she was over it and would give her twice as much, waited to see what happened, CA quit breathing but ICA decided to be sure, she'd apply the duct tape. I believe this was something she had been contemplating for awhile...

Maybe she stashed the body out back (the cadaver dog hit) and came back 2 days later (after she finally got out of TL's bed), borrowed the shovel, relocated the body she had wrapped while at the house on the 16th from the house to her trunk.

I, too, have given a lot of thought to ICA stashing Caylee out back - possibly inside the playhouse on the ground - unless you walk up to one of those and look in - you can't really see what's on the ground inside.

The two HRD dog hits in the backyard. I believe Caylee may have been placed there for just a little bit of time but there's no way ICA would have "stashed" her out there, because they ahve two little dogs that go outside. Anyone with dogs know they go out at least twice a day - if not more. The dogs would have alerted to Caylee's body IF it was out there. Bet on it. That's where it gets crazy with the HRD dog hits but yet knowing there were other dogs in the house that would have alerted first. KWIM?

 

[tlcya]

I don't know, maybe it comes from the fact that never in my wildest imagination could I leave my daughter who is the exact same age as Caylee in the pool. She's not capable of going in the pool alone, period. I don't see how even in negligence she could think that would not be a guaranteed drowning? It's not as if Caylee could touch the bottom. :waitasec:

My personal belief leans way more toward drugging + tape. If the pool thing is true then imo it was on purpose, she left her in there knowing she would drown because I see no other option for a child that age in a pool with water over her head?

ty for the clarification. I too have been leaning more towards the trunk, duct tape, sedation situation. I am trying to keep an open mind to other theories tho, so I am giving Katydid's theory my serious consideration.

So for you, it is easier to accept ICA as a duct taping, sedating, trunk putting in mother than an inattentive, got wrapped up in trying to find a sitter mom who then panicked after her child was dead and knew mom and dad would never forgive THIS screwup mother?

That is strange to me because I would think the inattentive, oh crap I messed up, panic, hide and then get rid of body mother would be easier to swallow than the sociopathic, she is in my way tonight, I will duct tape, sedate and secrete her in my trunk mom that I think she is.

 

[Bobbarita]

The shed was locked up and George hid the key.

That is why the shovel seems so important. Why go ask the neighbor for one? It obviously was not the bamboo shoot that was the problem.

But what was the problem? Was she trying to break open the shed? Dig a hole?
Remove the tile under the playhouse?

OK. Shovel in shed unavailable.
MOO she appears to be ultra meticulous insofar as grooming and cleanliness are concerned. I believe she needed the borrowed shovel to handle the body because she did not want to touch it. (Eewww!) Not necessarily move it a long distance, or dig a hole, etc. Just pick it up, (from inside the trunk?) and bag it in the garbage bags and laundry bag and then put it back in the trunk. Maybe. Those maneuvers would also explain how she did not appear dirty or sweaty and that the shovel was not soiled.

 

[coloradoteacher]

I, too, have given a lot of thought to ICA stashing Caylee out back - possibly inside the playhouse on the ground - unless you walk up to one of those and look in - you can't really see what's on the ground inside.

The two HRD dog hits in the backyard. I believe Caylee may have been placed there for just a little bit of time but there's no way ICA would have "stashed" her out there, because they ahve two little dogs that go outside. Anyone with dogs know they go out at least twice a day - if not more. The dogs would have alerted to Caylee's body IF it was out there. Bet on it. That's where it gets crazy with the HRD dog hits but yet knowing there were other dogs in the house that would have alerted first. KWIM?

ITA- I think it's more likely that she placed Caylee's body in the trunk and drove to the date since it is such a short timeline between her calls to her parents from the house and the start of the date and then came back the next day, backed up, took the body out and brought it into the back yard with the intention of burying her and then changed her mind. I cannot decide of she left her at the house for any period of time and then came back to get the body or gave up on the burying and placed her back in the trunk. How soon would the body start to smell? The people in the car on the 20th didn't smell anything...

 

[RR473]

Didn't GA have a shovel or shovels? What was the urgency in going to the neighbor? I don't buy the bamboo shoot story...

She also googled shovel.

ETA: Who would google shovel? LOL

 

[Harmony 2]

I, too, have given a lot of thought to ICA stashing Caylee out back - possibly inside the playhouse on the ground - unless you walk up to one of those and look in - you can't really see what's on the ground inside.

The two HRD dog hits in the backyard. I believe Caylee may have been placed there for just a little bit of time but there's no way ICA would have "stashed" her out there, because they ahve two little dogs that go outside. Anyone with dogs know they go out at least twice a day - if not more. The dogs would have alerted to Caylee's body IF it was out there. Bet on it. That's where it gets crazy with the HRD dog hits but yet knowing there were other dogs in the house that would have alerted first. KWIM?

The entomology report negates the possibility of the body being placed outside or anywhere else beside a tightly enclosed area like the trunk. The report reveals that Caylee was placed in the trunk before death or very shortly thereafter..

 

[Bobbarita]

ITA- I think it's more likely that she placed Caylee's body in the trunk and drove to the date since it is such a short timeline between her calls to her parents from the house and the start of the date and then came back the next day, backed up, took the body out and brought it into the back yard with the intention of burying her and then changed her mind. I cannot decide of she left her at the house for any period of time and then came back to get the body or gave up on the burying and placed her back in the trunk. How soon would the body start to smell? The people in the car on the 20th didn't smell anything...

I think there was indecison, she was making it up "on the fly", however, she wasn't going to be late for her date with Tony! That was the priority in her mind. Damn everything else. It could wait for later...

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

Re: the early a.m. call from house to cell

It's possible that Casey was up with Caylee and they were playing "telephone".

Many children Caylee's age are starting to love the telephone. Plus, Caylee witnessed *tons* of Casey's phone activity and probably would have thought it great fun to call a phone number, leave (her version of) a message, and then listen to herself when the voicemail was dialed.

Just a thought...

Hi pip. :seeya: The part that I bolded above really bothers me, too. I think the question about why her home land line would be calling her cell phone (if as by all accounts she was supposed to be in that same home) has been touched on a few times before in various threads. The explanations ranged all the way from 'because she lost her cell and rang it to find it' to 'a wake up call.'

But according to the wonderful timeline that ACR lets us use here: http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days-061608.htm it shows that after that call from the home phone, Casey immediately calls her voicemail to check for a message. If she was calling herself to find her phone, she wouldn't check to see if she left a message. That leads me to believe someone else in the house called her. According to George and Cindy's latest, freshest, newest testimonies, George was the only other person home. Why would he call her? Why wouldn't he just knock or yell through the door?

Was Caylee awake and George wanted Casey to get out of bed and take care of her? If Caylee was awake, I doubt she closed the bedroom door behind herself, making a telephone call even more nonsensical. So the wake up call doesn't seem very logical to me either. (Besides, if you were giving someone a wake up call and they didn't answer would you hang up and call again or would you leave them a voice mail?) :waitasec:

So it bothers me. It makes me suspicious because the logical reason to call someone is usually because they're not there.

 

[katydid23]

ty for the clarification. I too have been leaning more towards the trunk, duct tape, sedation situation. I am trying to keep an open mind to other theories tho, so I am giving Katydid's theory my serious consideration.

So for you, it is easier to accept ICA as a duct taping, sedating, trunk putting in mother than an inattentive, got wrapped up in trying to find a sitter mom who then panicked after her child was dead and knew mom and dad would never forgive THIS screwup mother?

That is strange to me because I would think the inattentive, oh crap I messed up, panic, hide and then get rid of body mother would be easier to swallow than the sociopathic, she is in my way tonight, I will duct tape, sedate and secrete her in my trunk mom that I think she is.

Just for clarification purposes, MY theory is in between the two. I think she 'accidentally on purpose' left her unattended in the pool. I think she is too lazy to do it any other way. She was very ambivalent and just went about her business. Then when she found the body she was forced to take some kind of action.

 

[Bobbarita]

She also googled shovel.

ETA: Who would google shovel? LOL

From another thread and my same query, "shovel" has more than the standard digging implement definition vis a vis the Urban Dictionary. Per these other posts (which I recall but can't locate), someone in her partying group called or referred to KC as a "shovel" (which translates into --ore) so she may have been researching this "other" meaning.

 

[lemon]

I think we've all been looking at this from our own normal perspectives. What if we looked at it from the perspective of an unhealthy mind? We know from prior cases, where someone's entire life is a lie, that to the liar, The Lie is all important. Nothing is more important than preserving The Lie.

KC leaves the house and waits for GA to go to work. She returns home and commences whatever she did while at the house during the day. Say she was going to swim a bit with Caylee but got distracted. The ladder is now up and Caylee's attention is drawn to the pool because she knew they were about to swim. She wants to swim.

At some point KC realizes Caylee has drowned. In KC's unhealthy mind she can't call 911 because she was supposed to be at work and how would she explain to CA that Caylee was at home in the pool? The Lie would be exposed. Can't have that.

GA knows Caylee is at Zanny's. CA knows Caylee is at Zanny's.Zanny has been a great catch-all excuse over the years. Why couldn't Zanny be to blame for this too? Good plan. That's what she will stick to. It even furthers The Lie. But how can she claim that Caylee drowned at Zanny's? Zanny (supposedly a normal person) would have called 911.

Hmm, what if Zanny kidnapped Caylee? Yeah, she kidnapped her and killed her! Ok she'll need duct tape, like in the movies. That's what kidnappers do. She gets the duct tape and applies it. Gets the laundry bag and trash bags for transport. She stands there looking at her handiwork, knowing she is bagging up her child for disposal. A tinge of regret crosses her heart. This has to be done but what can she do that's special, for Caylee? She goes in and gets her scrapbooking stuff out. Gets a heart sticker. She returns to the backyard. Sorry baby but it has to be this way. She applies the heart sticker. Then she bags Caylee up and puts her in the trunk.

Over the next few days fear of dumping the body prevents her from doing so. If she dumps it, anyone can find it. How sure is she of her plan? What if there's evidence? She has to do it soon though. One more day. One more day. One more day. Now it's too many days. Now there is a smell. Now GA wants in the trunk. Gotta do it NOW. So she drives up to Suburban and dumps the bag. Now she should call 911. My baby is missing; the nanny took her! But why? Things are ok right now. Except the smell and for that she can just ditch the car, and no one can smell it outside of the car anyway. And no one is even asking questions except CA, and she is easily thrown off. Life is good right now. Bella Vita. No regrets, just a bit worried. This is the happiest that (she's) been in a very long time. One more day. Why disrupt her life? From here on out life will never be the same.

She can't go home until she makes some kind of report on Caylee. So she has to do what she can to fit in with the people she is able to stay with. If you're fun and party with them, people let you stay. So she is fun, she parties. She's not no job, saddled with a kid KC. She's fun, carefree event planner with a cute child who's at the nanny KC. She could get used to this. Maybe she doesn't have to call the police after all. Maybe she can just string CA along until she stops bothering. It's working so far. Yes it's do-able. At least until a believable permanent lie presents itself.

Then... July 15th.

(Personally I think the chloroform is a red herring in this case, so I didn't include it in my ramblings)

 

[Phoebeb]

I, too, have given a lot of thought to ICA stashing Caylee out back - possibly inside the playhouse on the ground - unless you walk up to one of those and look in - you can't really see what's on the ground inside.

The two HRD dog hits in the backyard. I believe Caylee may have been placed there for just a little bit of time but there's no way ICA would have "stashed" her out there, because they ahve two little dogs that go outside. Anyone with dogs know they go out at least twice a day - if not more. The dogs would have alerted to Caylee's body IF it was out there. Bet on it. That's where it gets crazy with the HRD dog hits but yet knowing there were other dogs in the house that would have alerted first. KWIM?

Oh right! The 2 little dogs... I wonder why the dogs would have hit unless she had died out back, then. I don't believe for a second ICA borrowed the neighbor's shovel to dig some bamboo shoots. That is totally unbelievable. Now I'm confused.

 

[Phoebeb]

I think we've all been looking at this from our own normal perspectives. What if we looked at it from the perspective of an unhealthy mind? We know from prior cases, where someone's entire life is a lie, that to the liar, The Lie is all important. Nothing is more important than preserving The Lie.

KC leaves the house and waits for GA to go to work. She returns home and commences whatever she did while at the house during the day. Say she was going to swim a bit with Caylee but got distracted. The ladder is now up and Caylee's attention is drawn to the pool because she knew they were about to swim. She wants to swim.

At some point KC realizes Caylee has drowned. In KC's unhealthy mind she can't call 911 because she was supposed to be at work and how would she explain to CA that Caylee was at home in the pool? The Lie would be exposed. Can't have that.

GA knows Caylee is at Zanny's. CA knows Caylee is at Zanny's.Zanny has been a great catch-all excuse over the years. Why couldn't Zanny be to blame for this too? Good plan. That's what she will stick to. It even furthers The Lie. But how can she claim that Caylee drowned at Zanny's? Zanny (supposedly a normal person) would have called 911.

Hmm, what if Zanny kidnapped Caylee? Yeah, she kidnapped her and killed her! Ok she'll need duct tape, like in the movies. That's what kidnappers do. She gets the duct tape and applies it. Gets the laundry bag and trash bags for transport. She stands there looking at her handiwork, knowing she is bagging up her child for disposal. A tinge of regret crosses her heart. This has to be done but what can she do that's special, for Caylee? She goes in and gets her scrapbooking stuff out. Gets a heart sticker. She returns to the backyard. Sorry baby but it has to be this way. She applies the heart sticker. Then she bags Caylee up and puts her in the trunk.

Over the next few days fear of dumping the body prevents her from doing so. If she dumps it, anyone can find it. How sure is she of her plan? What if there's evidence? She has to do it soon though. One more day. One more day. One more day. Now it's too many days. Now there is a smell. Now GA wants in the trunk. Gotta do it NOW. So she drives up to Suburban and dumps the bag. Now she should call 911. My baby is missing; the nanny took her! But why? Things are ok right now. Except the smell and for that she can just ditch the car, and no one can smell it outside of the car anyway. And no one is even asking questions except CA, and she is easily thrown off. Life is good right now. Bella Vita. No regrets, just a bit worried. This is the happiest that (she's) been in a very long time. One more day. Why disrupt her life? From here on out... life will never be the same.

She can't go home until she makes some kind of report on Caylee. So she has to do what she can to fit in with the people she is able to stay with. If you're fun and party with them, people let you stay. So she is fun, she parties. She's not no job, saddled with a kid KC. She's fun, carefree event planner with a cute child who's at the nanny KC. She could get used to this. Maybe she doesn't have to call the police after all. Maybe she can just string CA along until she stops bothering. It's working so far. Yes it's do-able. At least until a believable permanent lie presents itself.

Then... July 15th.

(Personally I think the chloroform is a red herring in this case, so I didn't include it in my ramblings)

------
True, ICA has a different way of thinking. That's for sure!

I thought I saw a container (chloroform?) and syringe (in evidence somewhere- maybe the wft site?) found in her car.

So if she drove around with her in the car until 6/24, wouldn't that smell be so strong GA would have smelled it on the gas can day? Maybe she put the body somewhere, retrieved it, and put it in the woods so it would be found. It wasn't hidden well- 20 feet off street I believe. Would have made more sense to drop the body closer to "Zanny's" apmt for when she was found though, so she could stick with that old story. Placing her so close to home was either dumb or a move to ensure she would be found. Then she was prepared to spew the "nanny kidnapped her" saga.

 

[Harmony 2]

Also, I don't think that KC did anything particularly nefarious with the shovel. (It had nothing of forensic value to offer.) The pool does figure into this somehow. Maybe she tossed something in there that grossed her out and fished it out with shovel?

moo

Following each piece of evidence tells the story of what happened to Caylee. It just depends on the interpretation of those pieces. Page 5 of this link states George told LE that he found soil disturbed behind the pool. I think that is where Casey used the shovel in an attempt to bury the body but gave up when it was too difficult.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18530363.pdf

 

[Joanner]

....Then she bags Caylee up and puts her in the trunk.

Over the next few days fear of dumping the body prevents her from doing so. If she dumps it, anyone can find it. How sure is she of her plan? What if there's evidence? She has to do it soon though. One more day. One more day. One more day. Now it's too many days.

I think Casey put Caylee in her sandbox and put the cover back on it on June 16. Covering Caylee in sand would dampen any smell. Then on June 18, Casey borrows a shovel to move Caylee's body and backs up the car into the garage and puts her in there. She probably started the multiple bagging process.

I know if I have smelly garbage in a bag, I will double bag it to try to cut down on the smell.

I saw pictures of Caylee's sand box on Scared Monkey web site and Caylee would have easily fit in there. Since Caylee wasn't around, there would be no reason for the Anthony's to open it up.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

*****WARNING GRAPHIC*******

Here's a whole new thought - at least for me. When a body dies, after a certain amount of time it will go into rigor mortis (it gets very stiff). That does go away after a certain amount of time as well. If Caylee had been in rigor - then how would ICA gave been able to move her from trunk to backyard and/or back again? I guess if Caylee died while sleeping, then she would have been in a somewhat fetal position. If she died by drowning - I guess whoever could have "folded her" - KWIM? But it would have to have been faily soon after death before rigor set in.

Does that any sense? Can you see where I'm going? I hope so, 'cause now I can't - lol.

 

[katydid23]

I think Casey put Caylee in her sandbox and put the cover back on it on June 16. Covering Caylee in sand would dampen any smell. Then on June 18, Casey borrows a shovel to move Caylee's body and backs up the car into the garage and puts her in there. She probably started the multiple bagging process.

I know if I have smelly garbage in a bag, I will double bag it to try to cut down on the smell.

I saw pictures of Caylee's sand box on Scared Monkey web site and Caylee would have easily fit in there. Since Caylee wasn't around, there would be no reason for the Anthony's to open it up.

I wondered about that as well. But they have two little dogs. I know my dogs would have been smelling and whining and going nuts if there was one of our kids dead under a plastic shelltop in the yard.

 

[lemon]

------
True, ICA has a different way of thinking. That's for sure!

I thought I saw a container (chloroform?) and syringe (in evidence somewhere- maybe the wft site?) found in her car.

So if she drove around with her in the car until 6/24, wouldn't that smell be so strong GA would have smelled it on the gas can day? Maybe she put the body somewhere, retrieved it, and put it in the woods so it would be found. It wasn't hidden well- 20 feet off street I believe. Would have made more sense to drop the body closer to "Zanny's" apmt for when she was found though, so she could stick with that old story. Placing her so close to home was either dumb or a move to ensure she would be found. Then she was prepared to spew the "nanny kidnapped her" saga.

I believe the gatorade bottle and syringe were found at the dump site and it wasn't for sure that it was part of this case. I don't remember whether it was determined to have had chloroform on it or not. I do know there was some discussion on the matter so it must not have been clear cut that there was some present.

I think that GA could have (as in, the smell was there to be smelled) smelled the body that day but for whatever reason he did not. I don't think scent is always an exact sense. Much can affect it. A cold, the wind, distance, another smell being present, etc.

Dumping the body close to home and not close to Zanny's house (besides the obvious reason that Zanny wasn't real and had no house to dump near to ) could have been for as simple a reason as her not yet having a residence lined up for Zanny. Or because she reached a point where she felt she had to get rid of the body but had a fear of someone finding it because she hadn't reported Caylee missing. There would be a sense of security by having the body in a familiar place that she could drive by and ensure that everything was still 'ok'. Just a feeling that your own neighborhood is safer because it's familiar.

I think Casey put Caylee in her sandbox....

Not sure if you mean after a drowning, but you replied to my drowning theory so I'll assume yes. A wet, clothed body would have sand sticking to it all over. Even if you tried to brush it off once it dried, I would assume there would have been sand from the sandbox found in or around the bags once the body was found. If you meant a non drowning death then the sandbox does seem like a good hiding spot. Though my hunch is that she wouldn't have wanted to leave the body where she couldn't control who came upon it. The trunk was perfect because the only person who could force her to open it would be a cop, if she got pulled over. And even then she could refuse a search of her vehicle. Otherwise the trunk was secure. It locked and she had the key. Great hiding spot. Too bad she didn't think of the smell.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Although I've been following the trial, I haven't been here but once or twice in the last few months so I'm sure this has been mentioned..but it just smacked me in the face as I sat here tonight re-listening to JB's opening statement. ..

My partial theory (and I don't believe in all this time I ever posted a theory because I just couldn't figure it out..anyway obviously this is just my opinion..

ICA killed Caylee on that afternoon.. (still can't figure out the *how* she did it that works for me) ..and then went on to do what she does best..pretend it was an 'accidental drowning' and purposely left the gate open and put the ladder back up and probably placed Caylee in the pool..already planning to blame the 'accidental drowning' on Cindy... then made that flurry of phone calls to everybody to tell them of Caylee's 'accidental drowning'..all because Cindy left the gate open and ladder down..not ICA's fault of course. ..and Cindy would buy that from ICA, like she believed everything else she ever told her..H@ll, listening to Cindy, she sounds like she still believes ICA's lies about the friends, work, zanny's accident, etc..It's absolutely bizarre listening to her. But..then ICA ran into a problem..NOBODY answered her phone calls..so after waiting a couple hours, her accident theory wouldn't have worked so she threw poor Caylee in the trunk and continued on to plan b..not missing a beat...She had a hot date and didn't have time to deal with any more pesky details at the moment..so she tossed this baby in her trunk and then out like trash at a later date..

I'm just furious listening to this. Never in a million years thought I could be more pizzed than I was 3 years ago..but I am! She is taking all her lies and trying to make them fit..all the while she is the martyr protecting her family..sniff sniff with her fake cries. Because now she she thinks all she has to do is just play the part of the *mother of the year* whose child drowned because her mother left the gate open/ladder down and her father forced her to tell the lies since she wasn't able to tell Cindy the truth. She actually wants the jury to believe that she did all this to protect her family! Just makes me sick to my stomach!

 

[Pondering Mind]

I personally don't buy the swimming pool accident theory. ICA had to know Caylee couldn't swim, why would she leave her out there alone? Even in a negligent moment I just can't wrap my mind around it...

I don't buy it either..I do believe that she thought George and Cindy would though and that's all that mattered to her at that point. Cindy would feel so guilty for leaving the gate open and ladder up and Casey would pretend to be so upset..they would handle whatever needed to be handled..or Cindy would anyway and George would do what Cindy told him to.. I absolutely do not believe Cindy left the ladder on the pool either..but I do think Casey could make her believe she did..

I think Caylee was placed in the pool..but was already deceased when she was..