Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[Bobbarita]

In the picture I remember seeing, the plunger and the needle were still attached.

moo

Researching chloroform as an injectable...

 

[truemystery]

All this talk about Casey being a good mother doesn't really surprise me. I personally know two different women with Borderline Personality Disorder. I have studied BPD (just for fun and due to the fact that I have had to interact with BPD people) But I do see many bystanders on the outside looking in totally and completely fall for the act. BPD people imitate what they think looks normal. They are good at it. The truth is that they are selfish. The only reason they act like good mothers is because it benefits them when people look up to them and give them attention or accolades for it.

I am not a doctor so I am not saying Casey has BPD, but possibly something similiar to it.

So with that being said, what I think happened is that Caseys relationship with Caylee was not benefiting Casey at the moment so she took care of it. She thought staging a kidnapping would benefit her because she would get attention and people would be so distraught and busy searching that they wouldn't bother to keep questioning her about the suspicious facts and details.

From what I know about the BPD friends I have, I am guessing that at this moment Casey doesn't have any remorse for killing her daughter. She just felt it was something she had to do. Not her fault, in Caseyworld it just had to be done. After all, everybody lies, everybody dies, right?

 

[tlcya]

The "final kiss", so to speak. Bye-bye baby... For KC it was like placing a stamp on a package she was going to mail away. Like her posting, "Everbody lies, everybody dies...". Ho-hum. Life goes on. Don't forget her diary entry as well.

Above was snipped from bobbarita

I agree, 100% about the final kiss. So melodramatic and so ingenuine, so ICA, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

OK, I'm following this, but after Caylee drowns in the pool (and sinks to the bottom) she then dives into the pool and retrieves the dead body? I have never tried it, but I imagine retrieving a 40 lb. dead weight from the bottom of the pool must have been a struggle for KC. She appears to be petite and I have no idea of her diving skills and strength. And then after she retrieves her she maneuvers down the pool ladder with a lifeless Caylee in tow?

That is why I said I still had a few kinks in my theory. I am not at all attached
to that part of my theory. I really do not know what happened to Caylee for sure. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt I suppose by making it somehwat accidental.

 

[Pink Panther]

Any mother that attempts to cover up an accident by duct taping her daughters mouth and nose and hair with three pieces of duct tape and a sticker on top is worthy of the death penalty. This is why GA was "brought into" the picture. Someone else has to take responsibility for the hideousness of the duct tape! Kronk is brought into the mix because of something that GA can't be "pinned" to...Something that doesn't jive with the timeline. I haven't been able to figure that one out yet. I'm suspecting at this point that KC actually did move the body. Maybe this was done at a point that GA can't have done it.

Not sure.

moo

 

[Pink Panther]

Also, I don't think that KC did anything particularly nefarious with the shovel. (It had nothing of forensic value to offer.) The pool does figure into this somehow. Maybe she tossed something in there that grossed her out and fished it out with shovel?

moo

 

[tlcya]

OK, I'm following this, but after Caylee drowns in the pool (and sinks to the bottom) she then dives into the pool and retrieves the dead body? I have never tried it, but I imagine retrieving a 40 lb. dead weight from the bottom of the pool must have been a struggle for KC. She appears to be petite and I have no idea of her diving skills and strength. And then after she retrieves her she maneuvers down the pool ladder with a lifeless Caylee in tow?

It could easily happen. Panic, an unexpected freak out moment has been the impetus for accomplishing many tasks that would seem difficult in the past.

Besides, no one else was home, so time could be taken with retrieval.

Not that I think it would have been needed. I don't see this as a stumbling block at all. ICA is not a shrinking violet. She toted that kid all over hell's half acre for the last several years, sometimes, sleeping weight. Why wouldn't she be able to retrieve her from the pool?

 

[darcedarce]

I personally don't buy the swimming pool accident theory. ICA had to know Caylee couldn't swim, why would she leave her out there alone? Even in a negligent moment I just can't wrap my mind around it...

 

[Bobbarita]

That is why I said I still had a few kinks in my theory. I am not at all attached
to that part of my theory. I really do not know what happened to Caylee for sure. I am giving her the benefit of the doubt I suppose by making it somehwat accidental.

I understand. Same with me. I don't know squat about Kronk the meter reader---just that he discovered the body. Don't know how what I discover will fit into any "theory" I develop at this point. We're all just doing our best in memory of Caylee...

 

[Tiki]

I can't buy that Caylee drowned and then the duct tape was applied. Even if she did drown and ICA could somehow get her out of the pool, the tape wouldn't stick on a wet face.
ICA doesn't seem like the type to carefully dry the baby's face in order to apply tape.

Sorry to say, I think either Caylee was sedated, then taped, or the tape was simply the murder weapon as JA seems to think. Wrists taped in back first, then tape across the face.

It's been hard for me to get my brain around someone killing her own baby in any way - harder, yet, to imagine looking down and putting that tape on as JA described.
But I think that's what ICA did. I don't give her any leeway any more. She wanted Caylee gone, and she used the weapon at hand. As Dr G , I think, said - it was never meant to be taken off. She was shutting Caylee up for good.

I also think she did it in her home where the duct tape and stickers were handy. ICA is not bright enough to make a careful plan...obviously.

I am convinced we can speculate forever and listen to testimony over and over, but we'll never know just how poor little Caylee died. I don't think I want to know. I just want ICA to pay for what she did. DP or LWOP - either would be fine with me, and I have always been against the DP. ICA's actions changed my mind - at least in her case.


.

 

[coloradoteacher]

What Time to you think Casey killed Caylee and what day?

I think it was between 4 and 5 PM on June 16 probably after the numerous unanswered calls to her parents for a last ditch effort to get a babysitter, which would actually make it closer to between 4:30 and 5:00 PM. It's the only time that fits.
Thinking about that makes me feel sick to my stomach.. "well I guess I am going to have to kill you because I can't find a babysitter and I really need to go out on this date with TL." :sick:

 

[roseofsharon]

Does this make any sense, it's just a thought. I wonder if KC put the duct tape on CMA before the murder and then held her under water either in the bath tub or the pool.

She knew she would be placing CMA's body in the trunk of her car, so she didn't want any water to leak out of the facial orifices, as she knew eventually there would be an investigation and her car would be scrutinized. She could explain away the DNA, but possibly not water stains from the pool or tub. :twocents:

I also think another theory is that KC probably routinely drugged CMA and duct taped her mouth in case she woke up and placed her in the trunk while she was doing all her partying and she finally asphixated her.

I don't like that video of KC and CMA playing on the floor. IMO KC is playing far too rough with a little baby, so I can only imagine her wrath when she was tee'd off.

IMOO

 

[katydid23]

I can't buy that Caylee drowned and then the duct tape was applied. Even if she did drown and ICA could somehow get her out of the pool, the tape wouldn't stick on a wet face.
ICA doesn't seem like the type to carefully dry the baby's face in order to apply tape.

Sorry to say, I think either Caylee was sedated, then taped, or the tape was simply the murder weapon as JA seems to think. Wrists taped in back first, then tape across the face.

It's been hard for me to get my brain around someone killing her own baby in any way - harder, yet, to imagine looking down and putting that tape on as JA described.
But I think that's what ICA did. I don't give her any leeway any more. She wanted Caylee gone, and she used the weapon at hand. As Dr G , I think, said - it was never meant to be taken off. She was shutting Caylee up for good.

I also think she did it in her home where the duct tape and stickers were handy. ICA is not bright enough to make a careful plan...obviously.

I am convinced we can speculate forever and listen to testimony over and over, but we'll never know just how poor little Caylee died. I don't think I want to know. I just want ICA to pay for what she did. DP or LWOP - either would be fine with me, and I have always been against the DP. ICA's actions changed my mind - at least in her case.

.

I CAN believe that she used the duct tape as a murder weapon but I guess I don't want to. My heart keeps wanting to believe it was a very negligent, even somewhat malicious accident. But on the other hand there are some videos which show us her flashes of seething anger.

I think it is the timeline that hinders me. IF it could be shown there was a very heated argument on the night of 15th, and she was threatened by her mom with a custody battle, I can easily see her lashing out at little Caylee late that night in anger. If caylee was whining and crying for Grandma that night, while Casey was trying to flee the house with her, I could easily see her duct taping the child's mouth angrily.
But it is harder for me to see her doing that on the 16th in the light of day, after things had calmed down. I guess it is just easier to see her just being lazy and negligent and playing on FB and ignoring Caylee. If she dies under those circs then I can see her doing the sloppy cover up.

 

[Bobbarita]

All this talk about Casey being a good mother doesn't really surprise me. I personally know two different women with Borderline Personality Disorder. I have studied BPD (just for fun and due to the fact that I have had to interact with BPD people) But I do see many bystanders on the outside looking in totally and completely fall for the act. BPD people imitate what they think looks normal. They are good at it. The truth is that they are selfish. The only reason they act like good mothers is because it benefits them when people look up to them and give them attention or accolades for it.

I am not a doctor so I am not saying Casey has BPD, but possibly something similiar to it.

So with that being said, what I think happened is that Caseys relationship with Caylee was not benefiting Casey at the moment so she took care of it. She thought staging a kidnapping would benefit her because she would get attention and people would be so distraught and busy searching that they wouldn't bother to keep questioning her about the suspicious facts and details.

From what I know about the BPD friends I have, I am guessing that at this moment Casey doesn't have any remorse for killing her daughter. She just felt it was something she had to do. Not her fault, in Caseyworld it just had to be done. After all, everybody lies, everybody dies, right?

God Bless you...Having to interact with BPD people. It's exhausting. Totally exhausting.

 

[Bobbarita]

Also, I don't think that KC did anything particularly nefarious with the shovel. (It had nothing of forensic value to offer.) The pool does figure into this somehow. Maybe she tossed something in there that grossed her out and fished it out with shovel?

moo

Didn't GA have a shovel or shovels? What was the urgency in going to the neighbor? I don't buy the bamboo shoot story...

 

[tlcya]

I personally don't buy the swimming pool accident theory. ICA had to know Caylee couldn't swim, why would she leave her out there alone? Even in a negligent moment I just can't wrap my mind around it...

totally not snark but ?? After supposed fight (which I am really interested to see if any testimony on that enters this proceeding), the phone calls begging mom or dad to sit that night. There is a poster (sorry, don't recall the name) who has a timeline on all the cel phone pings from that day. Repeated phone calls to mom and dad, supposedly requesting they sit, I mean phone calls literally every other minute.

I can easily see a distracted ICA, stepping inside to lie to someone's voice mail, remember - Caylee was becoming quite verbal, can't have her overhearing the lies we are spinning lately, - pacing the house, trying so hard to find someone, any one to take the child so she could have time with her newest anticipated conquest.

You can't see a moment of inattention of self involved distraction, with this person?

Again, not trying to be argumentative, but I totally can.

 

[katydid23]

Didn't GA have a shovel or shovels? What was the urgency in going to the neighbor? I don't buy the bamboo shoot story...

The shed was locked up and George hid the key.

That is why the shovel seems so important. Why go ask the neighbor for one? It obviously was not the bamboo shoot that was the problem.

But what was the problem? Was she trying to break open the shed? Dig a hole?
Remove the tile under the playhouse?

 

[Phoebeb]

I CAN believe that she used the duct tape as a murder weapon but I guess I don't want to. My heart keeps wanting to believe it was a very negligent, even somewhat malicious accident. But on the other hand there are some videos which show us her flashes of seething anger.

I think it is the timeline that hinders me. IF it could be shown there was a very heated argument on the night of 15th, and she was threatened by her mom with a custody battle, I can easily see her lashing out at little Caylee late that night in anger. If caylee was whining and crying for Grandma that night, while Casey was trying to flee the house with her, I could easily see her duct taping the child's mouth angrily.
But it is harder for me to see her doing that on the 16th in the light of day, after things had calmed down. I guess it is just easier to see her just being lazy and negligent and playing on FB and ignoring Caylee. If she dies under those circs then I can see her doing the sloppy cover up.

-----
I think ICA had enough of (her perception) of Caylee interfering in ICA's life. I believe she was so jealous of her and I also believe she wanted to pursue a relationship with TL. Up until the 15th, ICA may have used chloroform to sedate Caylee when necessary to spend time with TL since we know Caylee did not spend the night at his apmt with them.

If CA was acting up, and ICA's nerves were shot, and she reached for the chloroform when she knew she couldn't get a babysitter, then thought how much easier it would be without CA in her life. Maybe she decided she was over it and would give her twice as much, waited to see what happened, CA quit breathing but ICA decided to be sure, she'd apply the duct tape. I believe this was something she had been contemplating for awhile...

Maybe she stashed the body out back (the cadaver dog hit) and came back 2 days later (after she finally got out of TL's bed), borrowed the shovel, relocated the body she had wrapped while at the house on the 16th from the house to her trunk.

 

[darcedarce]

totally not snark but ?? After supposed fight (which I am really interested to see if any testimony on that enters this proceeding), the phone calls begging mom or dad to sit that night. There is a poster (sorry, don't recall the name) who has a timeline on all the cel phone pings from that day. Repeated phone calls to mom and dad, supposedly requesting they sit, I mean phone calls literally every other minute.

I can easily see a distracted ICA, stepping inside to lie to someone's voice mail, remember - Caylee was becoming quite verbal, can't have her overhearing the lies we are spinning lately, - pacing the house, trying so hard to find someone, any one to take the child so she could have time with her newest anticipated conquest.

You can't see a moment of inattention of self involved distraction, with this person?

Again, not trying to be argumentative, but I totally can.

I don't know, maybe it comes from the fact that never in my wildest imagination could I leave my daughter who is the exact same age as Caylee in the pool. She's not capable of going in the pool alone, period. I don't see how even in negligence she could think that would not be a guaranteed drowning? It's not as if Caylee could touch the bottom. :waitasec:

My personal belief leans way more toward drugging + tape. If the pool thing is true then imo it was on purpose, she left her in there knowing she would drown because I see no other option for a child that age in a pool with water over her head?

 

[Bobbarita]

I CAN believe that she used the duct tape as a murder weapon but I guess I don't want to. My heart keeps wanting to believe it was a very negligent, even somewhat malicious accident. But on the other hand there are some videos which show us her flashes of seething anger.
I think it is the timeline that hinders me. IF it could be shown there was a very heated argument on the night of 15th, and she was threatened by her mom with a custody battle, I can easily see her lashing out at little Caylee late that night in anger. If caylee was whining and crying for Grandma that night, while Casey was trying to flee the house with her, I could easily see her duct taping the child's mouth angrily.
But it is harder for me to see her doing that on the 16th in the light of day, after things had calmed down. I guess it is just easier to see her just being lazy and negligent and playing on FB and ignoring Caylee. If she dies under those circs then I can see her doing the sloppy cover up.

(My underlining...) That seething anger in the videotapes, (and I think more will be displayed throughout the trial) is like a "tell" in a poker game.