Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[seeing_eye]

Does anyone still believe the death itself may have been an accident (overmedicating??) and the duct tape placed later to make it *look* like a kidnapping gone wrong? I think Casey might really have thought life was like a movie, she could make up these great stories, the kid would be found later as a skeleton, duct taped, which fits nicely into a kidnapping plot, no suspects ever found...and Casey is a grieving mother, supported by everyone in her community and family as such.

I do not believe there was any accident. IMO, Casey deliberately and with malice aforethought cruelly and heinously snuffed out the life of her precious little vulnerable daughter by placing duct tape over her mouth and nose, preventing her from breathing. I have never for even one second entertained the idea that Caylee's demise was an accident. I base my opinion on Casey's own actions after Caylee's disappearance. If Caylee had died by accident, we would have seen some panic or emotion in Casey. We did not. She is some cold cookie!

 

[azwriter]

My hypothesis for what it's worth.

The spark that lit the fuse was the visit Cindy had with her parents. But it wasn't because Cindy was angry at Casey for stealing. IMO Cindy had been called on the carpet on her responsibilities as Casey's mother. For instance, "this has got to stop", "What are you going to do about this" "If you had disciplined Casey when she was younger...." "If you won't do something then I will", hence the bank stepping in.

Cindy comes home and the explosion takes place. The topic could have been related to Casey making her mom look bad when Casey stole from her grandparents, Casey had plans for the night which didn't include being mommie dearest. I'm just not convinced the argument was because Cindy was fed up with Casey's stealing. Why? because of how Cindy reacted to the counselors opinion. Cindy could not grasp the concept of treating her child like an adult.

As to when Casey stormed out of the house, it could have been that night or the next morning. What I do suspect is that Georges' accounting of events the next day are false, incorrect, down right lies. IMO(of Course)

George leaves the home and then Casey buries Casey in the back yard. Hence the hits by the cadaver dogs. This gives Casey some time to come up with a plan which might explain the internet searches. However, Casey realizes she needs to move Casey from the backyard because George and Cindy have taken an interest in yard work.

Perhaps after the shed had been broken in to previously and the gas cans had been taken, George found out it was Casey who had broken in to it, George fixes the shed so that Casey can't break in to it again thus Casey borrows the neighbors shovel. I suspect that the outline found in the trunk occured when Casey transfered Caylee from the backyard to her car.

Casey drives over to where she has buried her pets at. However, Casey didn't realize that she needed a tool to dig a grave so she made do which would explain the shallow grave. Thankfully it was a shallow grave because it allowed for little Caylee's body to be discovered and strengthen the case for justice she so deserves.

This is just a broad framework of the sequence of events that took place in my personal opinion.

Novice Seeker

Novice, your theory is worthwhile. Something had to occur between Cindy and Casey that led to Caylee's death. If we are to believe Caylee was murdered by her mother, there had to be something to cause her to take that action. It wasn't just another day for Casey to awake and suddenly plan to do away with her daughter to spite her mom, Cindy. It's like looking for the straw that finally broke the camel's back. I think we can all agree that the two, Casey and Cindy did not see eye to eye on much, especially the care of Caylee.

I can only imagine these two women really hated each other. That the tension and arguments were on going but something major between the two pushed Casey over the edge resulting in the death of an innocent little girl.

What was difficult for me all along was trying to understand Cindy's steadfast defense of Casey not being a murderer. I asked myself over and over how Cindy could do that under the circumstance where Casey continued to be so secretive about Caylee's whereabouts and not admitting she was missing for 31 days and Cindy smelling the car after it was retrived from the lot.

Finally I came to the conclusion that Cindy defends Casey, because she is in fact defending herself. Cindy does not want to wear the cloak of being the mother of a murderer, especially a murderer who killed her own child. This is a stigma she cannot bear. That in my opinion is what drives Cindy to the angry point of never admitting her daughter could kill her own child. If Casey is guilty, then in her own mind, Cindy too is guilty.
jmo

 

[TinaD]

The thing that stops me accepting an 'accident...duct tape to look like kidnapping' theory is the way the duct tape was placed. It wasn't applied the way you would to keep someone quiet - it was over Caylee's mouth and nose and stuck to her hair. It was obviously never going to be removed, and if KC was trying to make it look like a kidnapping, surely she would have used one piece, not three, and kept it away from Caylee's hair?

 

[azwriter]

The thing that stops me accepting an 'accident...duct tape to look like kidnapping' theory is the way the duct tape was placed. It wasn't applied the way you would to keep someone quiet - it was over Caylee's mouth and nose and stuck to her hair. It was obviously never going to be removed, and if KC was trying to make it look like a kidnapping, surely she would have used one piece, not three, and kept it away from Caylee's hair?

Good points TinaD. However, I doubt Casey would know what a kidnapping would appear to look like anyway. She's not too bright in my opinion. If she was trying to make it looks as if someone took her child, she would not use items that came from her own home. But, to me she woudn't be so crafty.

I do believe the tape was applied after Caylee died. And who of us knows what type of mood Casey was in as she prepared the body. To me applying that amount of tape and so fully covering her face means Casey was finished with her child forever. That is very sad to type.
jmo

 

[katydid23]

Good points TinaD. However, I doubt Casey would know what a kidnapping would appear to look like anyway. She's not too bright in my opinion. If she was trying to make it looks as if someone took her child, she would not use items that came from her own home. But, to me she woudn't be so crafty.

I do believe the tape was applied after Caylee died. And who of us knows what type of mood Casey was in as she prepared the body. To me applying that amount of tape and so fully covering her face means Casey was finished with her child forever. That is very sad to type.
jmo

I agree with your assessment.
And I think Casey was in a rage when she used the duct tape.

when Casey and Cindy had their big fight, Cindy reportedly told Casey that she was going to fight Casey for custody of the baby. That enraged Casey because she was somewhat jealous of Caylee, and the way her parents loved and doted on her. Casey felt replaced by Caylee.

And on top of that, IF Cindy took custody, then Casey would be out on her ear. No more money to steal, no more car to use, no more place to hang out and mooch from.

So Casey was in a panic and in a jealous rage. She hated Cindy for making that threat, and she showed her what was going to happen next. Cindy would NOT take custody, ever. DONE

 

[sumbunny]

Slightly O/T. Has anyone watched the new season of "Teen Mom" on MTV?

There is a mother/daughter on that show that remind me of Cindy/Casey.
The Mother filed for temporary custody, because the Teen had no job, wanted to party all the time, etc. Mom wants full control of the baby.

It's really quite interesting, and perhaps quite similar to the Anthony family dynamics

The Mother took the Daughter to court regarding custody of her infant son...the daughter attempted to get a lawyer, but couldn't afford one to fight her mother. (mother now has custody, and the daughter is very very resentful)

 

[hornswoggled]

Way, way back, I wanted to think this was an accident. But so much has come to light now. Just thinking about the duct tape and Casey's impatience to get going to Tony's, and no one seemed available to keep Caylee for the night (flurry of phone calls).

I think Casey flew into a rage. Caylee may have been whining and getting into stuff and annoying Casey. I think Casey reached her breaking point that afternoon. This is a person who cannot handle frustration and aggravation. If in fact, there was an argument the night before, then she was already in a terribly deadly mood.

That duct tape is very angry duct tape. Over the mouth, nose, hair "shut up, shut UP!". I don't know if the intent was to kill, but no rational thought entered in. Caylee may have passed out (chloroform or no), and Casey half wittedly thought she was asleep - and quiet. At some point, she realized Caylee had changed color - dead. Panic - put her someplace - the trunk!

Go to Tony's, I'll deal with the rest tomorrow. I can picture that happening. I do not think this was a carefully thought out homicide. I think Caylee was killed spontaneously by her enraged mother.

 

[Novice Seeker]

Way, way back, I wanted to think this was an accident. But so much has come to light now. Just thinking about the duct tape and Casey's impatience to get going to Tony's, and no one seemed available to keep Caylee for the night (flurry of phone calls).

I think Casey flew into a rage. Caylee may have been whining and getting into stuff and annoying Casey. I think Casey reached her breaking point that afternoon. This is a person who cannot handle frustration and aggravation. If in fact, there was an argument the night before, then she was already in a terribly deadly mood.

That duct tape is very angry duct tape. Over the mouth, nose, hair "shut up, shut UP!". I don't know if the intent was to kill, but no rational thought entered in. Caylee may have passed out (chloroform or no), and Casey half wittedly thought she was asleep - and quiet. At some point, she realized Caylee had changed color - dead. Panic - put her someplace - the trunk!

Go to Tony's, I'll deal with the rest tomorrow. I can picture that happening. I do not think this was a carefully thought out homicide. I think Caylee was killed spontaneously by her enraged mother.

I agree. Your post just confirmed to me where the murder took place. It's that duct tape There was never any duct tape found in Caseys car which leads me to believe that Casey killed Caylee at the home. Casey snaps, that batch of choloform, for whatever reason, isn't knocking Caylee out and Casey can't sneak out until she knocks Caylee out. If Caylee isn't knocked out then Casey runs a big risk of Cindy coming in to check on Caylee.

Hmm... Casey is :furious: she wants to get out of there fast but can't until she can shut Caylee up.....enter the duct tape...the ol' saying tape your mouth shut....It isn't until Casey returns home that night or the next morning that she discovers she killed Caylee.

Now, as to the suggestion that Caylees death was an accident and everything snowballed from there....The very first time this scenerio is brought up is when the detectives met with George on 7/24/08. LE asked if this could have happened BUT George refutes that because of the car, the date he found the gas cans missing from his shed, tells LE that the pool ladder incident happened after the gas can event. George then tells LE that Cindy and he had met with several of Lee and Casey's friends the previous Sunday night after the prayer vigil and questioned the friends who told G&C that none of them had seen Caylee with Casey.

:doh: lost my train of thought

Novice Seeker

 

[BondJamesBond]

Theories please.

Where this post lands is random.

 

[Solace]

I think the baby was killed shortly after KC left the house around 1 or 1:15 per George Anthony.

She starts calling the house around two hours later - by that time I think the baby was dead. I think they had a huge fight the night before when Cindy returned home with Caylee from seeing her father. I think Cindy had talked about the money that was stolen with her mother and it was on her mind. Cindy says KC came home around 6:00 p.m. on the 15th and was going to get into the pool and Cindy told her no it was getting cold. I think that probablly infuriated KC being told she could not get in the pool with her daughter and the anger started again. Lee told Jesse they had a huge fight that night. KC was on the phone most of the late evening with Tony - she made no mention of it. But she was up and wanted his attention, even if it was on the phone.

I also believe she had been thinking about this for months and was doing the computer searches on just how to do it.

But I do think that baby was killed within two hours of her leaving the house.

That is same kind of hate - to kill a child in the light of day.

 

[Tink]

I have a hard time believing that this was a sudden, unintentional act in a moment of irrational anger. Casey had been doing computer searches on weapons and ways to sedate and kill, so she was thinking about this well in advance.

I think that a fight with her mother may have triggered her to do it that particular day, but it was already on her mind. It was getting harder and harder to carry on her life as Caylee got older. For example, you might be able to find a boyfriend who will have sex with you while your is baby sleeping on the floor beside your bed, and who will let you bring the baby into the bed for the rest of the night, but when you're talking about a three-year-old girl, many guys are NOT going to feel comfortable. You may be able to get away with bringing a baby or toddler to a party, but once Caylee is school age (and she wasn't that far away), how are you going to have her out half the night partying with you and then up for school in the morning?

I also think that Caylee believed that finding the right guy would be the answer to her problems - the key to the Sweet Life she wanted to have. Then she wouldn't have to lie and steal any more - he'd support her and she could party. Tony obviously looked like a good bet to her, but Caylee was making it hard for her to solidify that relationship. So, sorry, Caylee, but you have to go.

I don't honestly see Caylee as having strong emotions. You have to be able to love to be able to really hate. I think she was irritated with Caylee and I think she saw her as an obstacle in her way that needed to be removed.

If it was just a flash of anger, how would she be able to drive around with her baby's body in the trunk? How would she be able to happily rent movies, have sex, party with friends? All that behaviour, to me, is evidence of her coldness about the whole thing.

Tink

 

[jon_burrows]

I think Casey put three layers of duct tape over Caylee's mouth ensuring she would never take a breath again then waited for her to suffocate. Bagged her body, drove around, partied, then threw her body in a swampy dumping ground.

We'll never know the specifics because even if Casey confessed we could never believe a word she said. I don't even want to know because I fear that Caylee was probably fully awake, conscious and suffered a horrible unspeakable death at the hands of her own mother.

Casey had time to remove the tape before Caylee died so that constitutes premeditation and that's all I need to know legally.

IMO

 

[Novice Seeker]

Tink, I understand why it's so difficult to comprehend how a mother could drive around town while her dead child was stuffed in the trunk. However, Casey exhibit's strong traits of an anti-social personality. In very layman terms this personality lacks the ability to feel emotions. They are driven on self-gratification only. Classic examples of this personality is found in serial killers ie. Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, the unibomber...They simply lack the ability or desire to feel sympathy nor empathy.

I often tell people not all monsters look like a monster.

Novice Seeker

 

[shellsbells]

I have a hard time believing that this was a sudden, unintentional act in a moment of irrational anger. Casey had been doing computer searches on weapons and ways to sedate and kill, so she was thinking about this well in advance.

I think that a fight with her mother may have triggered her to do it that particular day, but it was already on her mind. It was getting harder and harder to carry on her life as Caylee got older. For example, you might be able to find a boyfriend who will have sex with you while your is baby sleeping on the floor beside your bed, and who will let you bring the baby into the bed for the rest of the night, but when you're talking about a three-year-old girl, many guys are NOT going to feel comfortable. You may be able to get away with bringing a baby or toddler to a party, but once Caylee is school age (and she wasn't that far away), how are you going to have her out half the night partying with you and then up for school in the morning?

I also think that Caylee believed that finding the right guy would be the answer to her problems - the key to the Sweet Life she wanted to have. Then she wouldn't have to lie and steal any more - he'd support her and she could party. Tony obviously looked like a good bet to her, but Caylee was making it hard for her to solidify that relationship. So, sorry, Caylee, but you have to go.

I don't honestly see Caylee as having strong emotions. You have to be able to love to be able to really hate. I think she was irritated with Caylee and I think she saw her as an obstacle in her way that needed to be removed.

If it was just a flash of anger, how would she be able to drive around with her baby's body in the trunk? How would she be able to happily rent movies, have sex, party with friends? All that behaviour, to me, is evidence of her coldness about the whole thing.

Tink

BBM- this always gets me, because Tony told her point blank she was getting too serious and apparently he and his friends took great joy in teasing her about it, and it didn't seem to be based on her daughter so much as the fact that they had been dating for, like, 3 weeks and she was all "I love you" to him. Man, no matter how you slice it, IMO KC is truly pathetic.

 

[txsvicki]

My theory of motive has changed a little since other posters have pretty much proven that the theft from the grandparents was awhile before the murder and that Cindy knew for a good while that Casey was taking money from her account. I'd always thought that Casey wanted to be forgiven of all her thefts plus be free. There still could be credit cards taken out in Cindy's name that we don't know about yet though, but maybe she just wanted to be free yet still able to mooch at home. The prosecutors believe she started researching murder related things 3 months before Caylee died, and AL was going to move back to New York, so it was time to set up a carjacking/kidnapping. Casey was probably going to smear chloroform around her own face and knock herself around, but just didn't want to be without her vehicle or to be able to go over and spend the night with Tony, so she messed up. She already had the MO of lying and setting up some sort of ATM robbery, so the computer searches seem to show thinking out a plan to either be attacked in the home or elsewhere. She chose the car unless that was a total mistake, which has always bugged me. Maybe she was going to claim an attack at home, and the decomp leaking in the car was totally unplanned. I'll always think the flurry of phonecalls to both Anthony's that afternoon was going to be wild claims of being attacked and Caylee taken, but they didn't cooperate and answer their phones.

 

[Scamperoo]

I have a hard time believing that this was a sudden, unintentional act in a moment of irrational anger. Casey had been doing computer searches on weapons and ways to sedate and kill, so she was thinking about this well in advance.

I think that a fight with her mother may have triggered her to do it that particular day, but it was already on her mind. It was getting harder and harder to carry on her life as Caylee got older. For example, you might be able to find a boyfriend who will have sex with you while your is baby sleeping on the floor beside your bed, and who will let you bring the baby into the bed for the rest of the night, but when you're talking about a three-year-old girl, many guys are NOT going to feel comfortable. You may be able to get away with bringing a baby or toddler to a party, but once Caylee is school age (and she wasn't that far away), how are you going to have her out half the night partying with you and then up for school in the morning?

I also think that Caylee believed that finding the right guy would be the answer to her problems - the key to the Sweet Life she wanted to have. Then she wouldn't have to lie and steal any more - he'd support her and she could party. Tony obviously looked like a good bet to her, but Caylee was making it hard for her to solidify that relationship. So, sorry, Caylee, but you have to go.

I don't honestly see Caylee as having strong emotions. You have to be able to love to be able to really hate. I think she was irritated with Caylee and I think she saw her as an obstacle in her way that needed to be removed.

If it was just a flash of anger, how would she be able to drive around with her baby's body in the trunk? How would she be able to happily rent movies, have sex, party with friends? All that behaviour, to me, is evidence of her coldness about the whole thing.

Tink

I also think Caylee's death was triggered by the fight on the 15th but I am not totally convinced that the research on the computer was because Casey was looking for ways to get rid of her baby. I think that it's quite possible Casey's intended victims may have been her parents. That she told her friend that she was going to be in possession of her parents home soon and that they can move in together, also that she stalled her boyfriend with the statement "in a week you can come over as much as you like" makes me think her parents lucked out.

That Casey was in a murderous state of mind was undeniable I think unfortunately she directed that rage at Caylee in the knowledge that what she did to her could cause her to die.

 

[Solace]

I also think Caylee's death was triggered by the fight on the 15th but I am not totally convinced that the research on the computer was because Casey was looking for ways to get rid of her baby. I think that it's quite possible Casey's intended victims may have been her parents. That she told her friend that she was going to be in possession of her parents home soon and that they can move in together, also that she stalled her boyfriend with the statement "in a week you can come over as much as you like" makes me think her parents lucked out.

That Casey was in a murderous state of mind was undeniable I think unfortunately she directed that rage at Caylee in the knowledge that what she did to her could cause her to die.

Hi Scamp,

I think I posted this before but it kind of goes along with your thinking. I saw a show called Murder in the Family and the son kills the daughter (out of jealously) HOWEVER, he intended to kill his parents first but spent the day with his father and "just couldn't do it". I would not be surprised at all if KC had thought about killing Cindy.

 

[Scamperoo]

Hi Scamp,

I think I posted this before but it kind of goes along with your thinking. I saw a show called Murder in the Family and the son kills the daughter (out of jealously) HOWEVER, he intended to kill his parents first but spent the day with his father and "just couldn't do it". I would not be surprised at all if KC had thought about killing Cindy.

Hi Solace
I totally agree, I really don't know how anyone could live with Cindy for any length of time and not feel like that I think Casey was just waiting for the opportunity fueled by a jealous, cold, rage. Maybe in the end she chickened out and went for a softer target.
Most of us would move out and never go back but Casey chose a much more effective punishment for Cindy and got rid of an annoying problem at the same time. Cindy must live in her own hell everyday and that's where she will always be from now on.
Wherever Casey ends up I don't believe it will bother her one whit! She will just fit right in anywhere.

 

[Solace]

I can see that happening. A few questions with this theory. For the sake of argument, George, although I don't believe he was completely truthful IMO, most likely did see Caylee Monday morning. So there is an amount of time which would have given Casey time to cool down from the blow-out possibly? VS. IMO Casey murdered Caylee in a spur of the moment where she is :furious: and only after decided on how she was going to clean up this mess. I'm still not convinced there was ever any odor in Casey's car prior to killing Caylee. My thought is that she made up that story to explain the odor that remained after she put Caylee in the car to go bury her.

I'll have to go back and read up on the cadaver dog hits and the locations they hit on but IIRC one area was around the sandbox. Would a cadaver dog hit on a general smell rather than it's source? IDK Did the dogs track to the garage? That would be interesting.

The shovel. Hmm... could be because it came up clean for any forensics. And, the neighbor didn't see Casey leave while she had the shovel. I just can't picture Casey borrowing that shovel unless she had a specific reason. What would be interesting to know is Casey's physical appearance when she returned the shovel.


Novice Seeker

Hi Novice,

The question re smell and the dog hitting on something other than decomposition was asked by Greta Van Sustern to a forensic "whatever" and his answer was "no". The dogs are specifically trained to hit on decomposition odor, not urine - as Cindy would like us to believe. They hit twice - once in the trunk of the car and once near the sandbox and the house. Cindy likes to tell the "story" that the handler of the dog said he might hit on urine. I can't say for sure she made that up or if he actually said it, so .....

I believe there were two dogs and both hit. Am I wrong?

 

[Solace]

Hi Solace
I totally agree, I really don't know how anyone could live with Cindy for any length of time and not feel like that I think Casey was just waiting for the opportunity fueled by a jealous, cold, rage. Maybe in the end she chickened out and went for a softer target.
Most of us would move out and never go back but Casey chose a much more effective punishment for Cindy and got rid of an annoying problem at the same time. Cindy must live in her own hell everyday and that's where she will always be from now on.
Wherever Casey ends up I don't believe it will bother her one whit! She will just fit right in anywhere.

I agree with you Scamp. Casey will fit right in. Although I think prison will be difficult for her to begin with, I think humans adjust and this sociopath will do just that. However, if she gets death, it is 23 hours a day in a cell. I cannot even fathom that. Actually, I can't fathom 23 seconds in a jail, prison or whatever.