Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[Baznme]

Wow, cannot believe the similarities. complete parallel.....Thanks for those quotes. Argument with mother, threats of gaining custody, duct tape........the plot thickens....:waitasec: for me, this is making me lean away from an accident a bit....quite a bit....

Just a thought here but, was "duct tape" on the list of computer searches? Is it possible she ran into this article when she searched?

 

[katydid23]

With so many theories of what people think happen who have MORE info than even the jury coupled with the many charges to choose from how many of you think she may end up with a hung jury? I am very concerned about that possibility.
I was just watching the Betty Broderick story and the 1st trial ended in a hung jury because 2 jurors would not charge her with Murder 1 and would only go for manslaughter. It ened with a hung jury due to that. (of course she was retired, much evidence was not allowed in and the state finally got a conviction - but with the circus of Caseys trial i dont know if the state would retry her - where would you find another jury?)

There are two major things that give me hope there will not be a hung jury.

1. This jury LOVES Judge Perry. He goes above and beyond the call of duty to make them happy and he shows his appreciation in so many ways . So I really do not believe they would give him a hung jury. It is up to the judge to work with the jury and try to get them to successfully deliberate. They would not do that for the SA or the DT, but for the judge, I think they would try really hard to come to a verdict.

2. Although there are many many theories about what happened, from complete accident, to premeditated cold blooded murder, nobody has much sympathy fro Casey Anthony. Even those who believe it might have been an accident are horrified with her behavior and actions after the tragedy. So it is not the case where half think she is guilty and the other half think she is a poor, sweet innocent victim. So I truly believe that they will be able to come to a compromise, at the very least, 30 years to Life, imoo.

I do not think she will get the DP, because of sympathy for the Anthony's mostly, not for her, imo.

 

[SMK]

Just a thought here but, was "duct tape" on the list of computer searches? Is it possible she ran into this article when she searched?

It is an interesting question. I do not believe she did. But had she done so, she would have seen that it ended badly, but she had her Nanny story as a backup....very strange parallel, in any case.

 

[SMK]

There are two major things that give me hope there will not be a hung jury.

1. This jury LOVES Judge Perry. He goes above and beyond the call of duty to make them happy and he shows his appreciation in so many ways . So I really do not believe they would give him a hung jury. It is up to the judge to work with the jury and try to get them to successfully deliberate. They would not do that for the SA or the DT, but for the judge, I think they would try really hard to come to a verdict.

2. Although there are many many theories about what happened, from complete accident, to premeditated cold blooded murder, nobody has much sympathy fro Casey Anthony. Even those who believe it might have been an accident are horrified with her behavior and actions after the tragedy. So it is not the case where half think she is guilty and the other half think she is a poor, sweet innocent victim. So I truly believe that they will be able to come to a compromise, at the very least, 30 years to Life, imoo.

I do not think she will get the DP, because of sympathy for the Anthony's mostly, not for her, imo.

I think you are right on all counts. Yes, Judge Perry is terrific. 2. The jailhouse tapes reveal Casey to be very arrogant, controlling, a "smooth talker", and I think the jury "gets" her: Whether an accident or not, some kind of felony murder. And yes, it would be CA and GA they would spare by not giving the DP. I agree.

 

[Oldsoul2]

I have a theory that really enlighten me when Dr. Spitz took the stand. I haven't read through this thread so I will apologize in advance if someone has already posted this. He testified that the tape had to have been put on after decomposition had already occurred because the tape would have stuck to the skin which would have decomposed and would not be present when he received the skull. In fact the tape was still present stuck to the actual skull. It then hit me. He was absolutely correct and it now makes sense. My theory about what happened from day one was that she wanted to make this look like a kidnapping or missing child case and hoped it would fall through the cracks, if they found the body, it would have been possible that the "kidnapper" had killed the child and disposed of her...hence the zanny story etc...so when Caylee was given too much chloroform and died, she must have panicked and didn't know where to put her, in the backyard at first, than in the trunk, then figuring out what she is going to do all the while the body is decomposing. She finally decided to put the duct tape before she actually put her in the final destination so that it was made to look like someone actually killed her. So, Caylee didn't die of asphyxiation and that is true, she died from overdose and the tape was the cover. Baez thought he had a homerun and mason made him repeat this several times but this makes it more obvious as to what really happened IMO. This means premeditation.

 

[Kelroy]

Thanks for your kind comments.

The duct tape to me has always been a way to make it a "soft" killing. Most mothers, smother or drown their children. It's not messy, and once the duct tape was on, and she was put in the trunk, Casey was out the door (as per cell pings around 4:20) She would be driving along and not have to see or hear Caylee (sorry it's awful to think about)

I agree it's a soft kill, but what a horrible one. I guess the worst scenario for me is that she duct-taped and put her into the trunk alive and conscious. You'd think she'd have heard her kicking, at least . . . that's just awful. I'd much rather think she chloroformed her into unconsciousness first, even though I really don't think she made chloroform when there are so many easier ways to drug a child. Yeah, it's all awful all around.

LOL I'm in NC too, and I've already been told in no uncertain terms by some people that they wouldn't want me on the jury.

This irks me so much. I guess there have been some trolls here, but I don't see what's wrong with someone wanting to examine all the angles and think critically about the charges and the evidence. You're not advocating that a "baby-killer should go free" or even advocating for Casey at all, so I just don't see why your views would meet with hostility. I hope the jury is made up of critical thinkers; otherwise the verdict, whatever it is, won't be meaningful.

Always good to explore both sides, and look at all angles....

In other words, I agree with this!

 

[Baznme]

There are two major things that give me hope there will not be a hung jury.

1. This jury LOVES Judge Perry. He goes above and beyond the call of duty to make them happy and he shows his appreciation in so many ways . So I really do not believe they would give him a hung jury. It is up to the judge to work with the jury and try to get them to successfully deliberate. They would not do that for the SA or the DT, but for the judge, I think they would try really hard to come to a verdict.

2. Although there are many many theories about what happened, from complete accident, to premeditated cold blooded murder, nobody has much sympathy fro Casey Anthony. Even those who believe it might have been an accident are horrified with her behavior and actions after the tragedy. So it is not the case where half think she is guilty and the other half think she is a poor, sweet innocent victim. So I truly believe that they will be able to come to a compromise, at the very least, 30 years to Life, imoo.

I do not think she will get the DP, because of sympathy for the Anthony's mostly, not for her, imo.

ITA with this post.

 

[Baznme]

I have a theory that really enlighten me when Dr. Spitz took the stand. I haven't read through this thread so I will apologize in advance if someone has already posted this. He testified that the tape had to have been put on after decomposition had already occurred because the tape would have stuck to the skin which would have decomposed and would not be present when he received the skull. In fact the tape was still present stuck to the actual skull. It then hit me. He was absolutely correct and it now makes sense. My theory about what happened from day one was that she wanted to make this look like a kidnapping or missing child case and hoped it would fall through the cracks, if they found the body, it would have been possible that the "kidnapper" had killed the child and disposed of her...hence the zanny story etc...so when Caylee was given too much chloroform and died, she must have panicked and didn't know where to put her, in the backyard at first, than in the trunk, then figuring out what she is going to do all the while the body is decomposing. She finally decided to put the duct tape before she actually put her in the final destination so that it was made to look like someone actually killed her. So, Caylee didn't die of asphyxiation and that is true, she died from overdose and the tape was the cover. Baez thought he had a homerun and mason made him repeat this several times but this makes it more obvious as to what really happened IMO. This means premeditation.

Everyone feels she flies by the seat of her pants but, I think she put a lot of thought into this before. If there was the threat of taking custody of Caylee and she lost it, all she did was follow through. The coverup (duct tape) was by the seat of her pants but that's about it. If there truly was a moment she was going to try to bury her in the backyard, would she have done so with duct tape on Caylee's face. I highly doubt that. It was part of the alibi after death. I agree. Premeditated.

 

[Nova]

With so many theories of what people think happen who have MORE info than even the jury coupled with the many charges to choose from how many of you think she may end up with a hung jury? I am very concerned about that possibility.
I was just watching the Betty Broderick story and the 1st trial ended in a hung jury because 2 jurors would not charge her with Murder 1 and would only go for manslaughter. It ened with a hung jury due to that. (of course she was retired, much evidence was not allowed in and the state finally got a conviction - but with the circus of Caseys trial i dont know if the state would retry her - where would you find another jury?)

I think this thread should concern anyone hoping for a verdict. (Not the existence of the thread itself; I'm not saying people should stop posting. I'm talking about the fact that even though the prosecution has finished its case-in-chief, there is no consensus on how the child was killed.)

In theory at least (as I understand it and I'm NOT a lawyer), it isn't enough just to be convinced that KC caused Caylee's death. If a juror isn't convinced of a specific charge (1st degree, manslaughter, etc.) beyond a reasonable doubt, s/he can't just vote for the lowest one, or the middle one; s/he has to vote to acquit.

And then 12 people have to agree.

Now in practice, jurors may be reluctant to let KC walk free and may "compromise" by voting manslaughter or something. But in theory, it's really a problem when people can't even agree on what crime was committed.

 

[Nova]

There are two major things that give me hope there will not be a hung jury....

1. This jury LOVES Judge Perry. He goes above and beyond the call of duty to make them happy and he shows his appreciation in so many ways . So I really do not believe they would give him a hung jury. It is up to the judge to work with the jury and try to get them to successfully deliberate. They would not do that for the SA or the DT, but for the judge, I think they would try really hard to come to a verdict.

2. Although there are many many theories about what happened, from complete accident, to premeditated cold blooded murder, nobody has much sympathy fro Casey Anthony. Even those who believe it might have been an accident are horrified with her behavior and actions after the tragedy. So it is not the case where half think she is guilty and the other half think she is a poor, sweet innocent victim. So I truly believe that they will be able to come to a compromise, at the very least, 30 years to Life, imoo.

I do not think she will get the DP, because of sympathy for the Anthony's mostly, not for her, imo.

BBM: just to be clear, that would be totally illegal, but not a bit uncommon, as I understand it.

 

[Baznme]

I think this thread should concern anyone hoping for a verdict. (Not the existence of the thread itself; I'm not saying people should stop posting. I'm talking about the fact that even though the prosecution has finished its case-in-chief, there is no consensus on how the child was killed.)

In theory at least (as I understand it and I'm NOT a lawyer), it isn't enough just to be convinced that KC caused Caylee's death. If a juror isn't convinced of a specific charge (1st degree, manslaughter, etc.) beyond a reasonable doubt, s/he can't just vote for the lowest one, or the middle one; s/he has to vote to acquit.

And then 12 people have to agree.

Now in practice, jurors may be reluctant to let KC walk free and may "compromise" by voting manslaughter or something. But in theory, it's really a problem when people can't even agree on what crime was committed.

I don't believe that the SA side has delivered all they have yet. I know, they had to have played all their cards already according to the rules of the court but, they have a way of putting things into perspective when it's their turn at the podium. The really pathetic thing is with the DT's "story", the jury just may end up giving her a more severe sentence than she would have received had she told the truth. We have to remember, most of the jurors have not been on WS's for the past three years and don't know the half of what's taken place in this case....

 

[SMK]

I have a theory that really enlighten me when Dr. Spitz took the stand. I haven't read through this thread so I will apologize in advance if someone has already posted this. He testified that the tape had to have been put on after decomposition had already occurred because the tape would have stuck to the skin which would have decomposed and would not be present when he received the skull. In fact the tape was still present stuck to the actual skull. It then hit me. He was absolutely correct and it now makes sense. My theory about what happened from day one was that she wanted to make this look like a kidnapping or missing child case and hoped it would fall through the cracks, if they found the body, it would have been possible that the "kidnapper" had killed the child and disposed of her...hence the zanny story etc...so when Caylee was given too much chloroform and died, she must have panicked and didn't know where to put her, in the backyard at first, than in the trunk, then figuring out what she is going to do all the while the body is decomposing. She finally decided to put the duct tape before she actually put her in the final destination so that it was made to look like someone actually killed her. So, Caylee didn't die of asphyxiation and that is true, she died from overdose and the tape was the cover. Baez thought he had a homerun and mason made him repeat this several times but this makes it more obvious as to what really happened IMO. This means premeditation.

Just a bit confused. I agree your theory makes sense until "premeditation". If the child died of an accidental overdose, and the duct tape was put on to stage a kidnapping, then that is not premeditated murder. The duct tape was premeditated, but in your scenario the child is already dead by accident. Only the staging is premeditated. Is this what you are saying?

 

[Baznme]

SMK - I took it to mean the overdose of "chloroform" was Premeditated. That would be no accident IMO.

 

[Phoebeb]

Just a thought here but, was "duct tape" on the list of computer searches? Is it possible she ran into this article when she searched?

Slighty OT, but I have wondered and never asked this: Did LE inspect the computer only for those deleted files in March? Or would everything (all dates) have been researched?

 

[GeekyGirl]

Slighty OT, but I have wondered and never asked this: Did LE inspect the computer only for those deleted files in March? Or would everything (all dates) have been researched?

I would tend to think they searched everything, but the searches in question were readily accessible because they were recently deleted, and therefore had not been written over.

 

[katydid23]

I think this thread should concern anyone hoping for a verdict. (Not the existence of the thread itself; I'm not saying people should stop posting. I'm talking about the fact that even though the prosecution has finished its case-in-chief, there is no consensus on how the child was killed.)

In theory at least (as I understand it and I'm NOT a lawyer), it isn't enough just to be convinced that KC caused Caylee's death. If a juror isn't convinced of a specific charge (1st degree, manslaughter, etc.) beyond a reasonable doubt, s/he can't just vote for the lowest one, or the middle one; s/he has to vote to acquit.

And then 12 people have to agree.

Now in practice, jurors may be reluctant to let KC walk free and may "compromise" by voting manslaughter or something. But in theory, it's really a problem when people can't even agree on what crime was committed.

No, imo, not a problem. Every one does not have to agree exactly how or why a crime happened. There are always going to be some unknowns in a crime.
What they have to agree upon is that Casey was responsible for her child's death. If 8 people think she was poisoned by chloroform, and 4 think she was duct taped to death---that is fine. They can legally and ethically vote Gulity.

What every one has to agree on is that the defendant deserves to do time as a punishment for a specific crime, and then how much. Our justice system is based upon plea deals and negotiating for higher or lower charges and punishments. So juries can do the same type of negotiations and they do--they deliberate. If I was on the jury and I wanted the DP, but nobody else did, I would be forced to cooperate and compromise, to avoid a hung jury.

The only way a jury would hang is if at least one person was absolutely convinced she was innocent of all charges. But if some think it was an accident, involving negligence, and others think it was murder 1, there is nothing wrong with coming to a compromise. imoo

The way I look at it, if it was 100% accidental, then she brought this on all by herself by the ugly, vicious way she acted. [ accusing others, blaming her friends/family, having people search and donate.] I would have no problem with her serving jail time for the things she did in the horrid aftermath.

 

[SMK]

SMK - I took it to mean the overdose of "chloroform" was Premeditated. That would be no accident IMO.

Oh, OK. I see what you mean. Thanks!

 

[katydid23]

BBM: just to be clear, that would be totally illegal, but not a bit uncommon, as I understand it.

No it's not. It is only illegal if some one on the jury thinks she is totally innocent of all charges, and votes 'guilty' anyway with the others. But if 2 people think the child might have drowned, and the duct tape is a cover up, and the remaining 10 think she killed the child by some means, then there is nothing wrong with them 'deliberating.' That simply means the jurors have to hash it out and come to an agreement. Perhaps the 2 will be convinced by some evidence the others point out, and they will agree to LWOP. Or perhaps the others will agree to vote for manslaughter because otherwise it will be a hung jury. That is not illegal at all. That is exactly how our Justice system works. You are very rarely going to get 12 people to agree on every single aspect of as murder trial.

When you see jurors interviewed after a big case, which I love to do, you always hear how there were factions and divisions that needed to come to agreement. It is a group decision, which can only be accomplished by negotiations.

 

[txsvicki]

My theory at the very beginning was that Caylee was never in the trunk for 2.5 days, but was out back behind the house then put in there to be moved. After some of the testimony about the stain I'm wondering if this is what happened. Maybe Casey wanted a death scent in the vehicle or it was an accident, but I don't think there's any way she could have gotten the trunk cleaned, and there should be lots of evidence of flies and maggots. Maybe she died in the trunk or playhouse with chloroform sprayed in, then placed out behind the home in one bag, then moved into the yard and hosed off before being placed back into double bags and moved to the final spot. The stain in the trunk could have been the first escape of fluids and the paper towels could have been some that got on something else or her hand. Could Casey have wiped on a little bit of adicopere in the vehicle purposely? Trying to figure out why there weren't loads of fly evidence and how she got a big stain of decomp out is very confusing.

 

[MaraSleuth]

Borrowing the shovel, the fact that grass does not grow in the Anthony backyard anymore, the fact that there was no decomp fluid in the trunk of the car leads me to believe that Caylee was not left in the car for days. I believe she was was placed in the yard somewhere and then transported in the car before being dumped. Maybe even trasnported by KC to an intermediate location. After thinking about the garbage bag in the trunk and being approached by her dad in the garage about the gas can (remember she got it out of the trunk and would not let her dad in the trunk) - I believe it was the garbage KC did not want GA to see - the garbage/trash which was her cover. What a great excuse to have a bag of garbage in the trunk - you had to drive it out of TL complex to dump it out and she "forgot" about it.

I transported garbage (there must have been meat or meat packaging in it) one summer when the trash collectors were on strike and something leaked out during the 10 minute drive to the dump and it smelled terrible, horrible. I had even used a tarp on the bottom of the trunk. I washed out the trunk liner with bleach, had it sit in the sun all day and the trunk still stunk for months until we sold the car. I think the smell could have come just from transporting Caylee's remains down the road. remember the poor baby was triple bagged - is it possible that the smell of decomp permeated the car even though there was no decomp fluid?