Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[MaraSleuth]

I've also read that the smell of a decomposing human body permeates clothings, hair and skin just from being near. That it takes several washes to get the smell out of clothing. I've heard LE who have come into contact with a decomposing body in the liquid stage say that. Let's just say if just standing near a decomposing body your hair and skin absorb the smell, why not a trunk liner? A trunk has minimal air circulation and it'd be harder to clean up?

 

[MaraSleuth]

Could Casey have wiped on a little bit of adicopere in the vehicle purposely?

Not purposely - by accident.

 

[sherryk]

There are so many possible reasons why she would kill Caylee. Any reason from rage, revenge, wanting to party. I have looked at the timeline of events, the cell pings, the texts and the events of the day of and after Caylee was seen last.

I can basically form my opinion of that ICA needed a babysitter that night, her and mom were on bad terms and possible the last person she wanted to turn Caylee over to. I think that either in rage to quiet Caylee so she could go on her date.. either in rage with a screaming 2 year old.. just flipped her lid ended it all.


Perhaps the clorophorm was used to knock her out.. and duct tape over mouth and nose was to kill her while she was passed out sleeping off the chlorophorm so Caylee would more or less die in her sleep.. put her in the trunk and that was it.

I dont think she thought it out well.. she was where she wanted to be with new boyfriend and was having too much fun to really bother with the details of explanation.
I think she was to spend as much time as possible with boyfriend and finally when she had a chance to take the TIME to give an explanation she would simply call mom and say oh my God Caylee disapeared at the park or store.. or some man took her at the mall or any reason that she could think of.. she knew that when and if she made up a missing child report on that.. her days of party and time with new boyfriend would be a whole new level.. she could not party and be that fun girl.. so she delayed reporting anything or any indication of anything wrong.. she probally would of done it through out the summer if Cindy wouldnt of tracked her down...

JMO..

 

[Whisperer]

ICA killed her daughter. There was no accident. It was intentional. She wanted to go back to TL's that night and her mother said, "No". She did not want to watch Caylee and resented her. She looked upon Caylee as her cause for not ever having any fun. ICA never sought out people who had children as friends. She stayed with the gang who partied and never had kids. If she loved Caylee, why not seek out other young mothers?

I say she considered herself as Caylee's nanny, not her mother. Cindy worked and casey was to babysit . Cindy was hoping this would all turn out to be good. Both parents knew she didn't work but didn't confront her because ICA was explosive. They feared casey and her anger. They thought, by babysitting, casey couldn't help but fall in love with her daughter and she would eventually bond with her. They even encouraged caylee sleeping in casey's room to further the bond...instead it backfired.

Despite all the pics we see, she is not engaged with the baby (with the exception of birth). Most were simply a photo op for casey. All her smiles and eyes for the camera tell it all. She dressed Caylee up as if she were a doll, placing silly faces, jewelry and big glasses at every opportunity. Why didn't ICA put them on herself? Never. They wouldn't be flattering.

She killed precious Cayleigh; she was done with competing for cindy's attention. It was time for her to party with friends, unemcumbered. She could finally be what she considered "Independent", which requires financial responsibility...but she thought she could marry that instead and not have to achieve that herself. On Father's day night as Caylee slept nest to her, she smothered her and placed tape over her mouth...between texts and calls from TL.

. She had hated her father too, for always confronting her about her behavior and screaming at ther. This way she gets even with the both of them.

JoJo and CeCe were the parents of this baby for all intentional purposes. They provided for Caylee and adored her. Casey resented them both for acting like parents to Caylee; things she could not do. They were not acting lovingly to ICA anymore. They were insisting she act as a mother. This was confusing to ICA because she did not know how to be a mother. In ICA's eyes, both were ignoring her and were consumed with her baby and that is something she will not tolerate.

Caylee had to go and her type of personality would never allow for anyone else to have Caylee. Thus, her decision to get rid of Caylee was made and she killed her.

 

[txsvicki]

Not purposely - by accident.

I was just thinking of perhaps a plot to claim carjacking with Caylee in the vehicle. If there was some plot, maybe Casey wanted some minimal proof that a dead body had been in the vehicle when it was found. The odor was probably an accident, and resulted in change of plans.

 

[erinleigh]

I believe Casey wanted her daughter dead and made it happen. How? I truly dont know. All I know is i watch and read a lot of true crime stories and her behavior reflects that of a murderess. Think of all the stories you have encountered..when the accused acts as if they dont care about the person who has died suspiciously..its almost always that person who killed them on purpose.
Sociopaths are so relieved to be free of the person they kill they give themselves away in their behavior. They forget to pretend to be shocked/grieving/devestated ect. This all leads me to murder, actually premeditated. This had to have been somewhere in her mind for a while. In a rage killing of a child there is generally remorse once the person had returned to their senses.

The fact that Casey did not plan for after the murder - ie the disposal of the body,
does not take me away from premeditation. It just shows me she only thought as far as wanting her daughter dead and didn't plan PAST that.

 

[erinleigh]

ICA killed her daughter. There was no accident. It was intentional. She wanted to go back to TL's that night and her mother said, "No". She did not want to watch Caylee and resented her. She looked upon Caylee as her cause for not ever having any fun. ICA never sought out people who had children as friends. She stayed with the gang who partied and never had kids. If she loved Caylee, why not seek out other young mothers?

I say she considered herself as Caylee's nanny, not her mother. Cindy worked and casey was to babysit . Cindy was hoping this would all turn out to be good. Both parents knew she didn't work but didn't confront her because ICA was explosive. They feared casey and her anger. They thought, by babysitting, casey couldn't help but fall in love with her daughter and she would eventually bond with her. They even encouraged caylee sleeping in casey's room to further the bond...instead it backfired.

Despite all the pics we see, she is not engaged with the baby (with the exception of birth). Most were simply a photo op for casey. All her smiles and eyes for the camera tell it all. She dressed Caylee up as if she were a doll, placing silly faces, jewelry and big glasses at every opportunity. Why didn't ICA put them on herself? Never. They wouldn't be flattering.

She killed precious Cayleigh; she was done with competing for cindy's attention. It was time for her to party with friends, unemcumbered. She could finally be what she considered "Independent", which requires financial responsibility...but she thought she could marry that instead and not have to achieve that herself. On Father's day night as Caylee slept nest to her, she smothered her and placed tape over her mouth...between texts and calls from TL.

. She had hated her father too, for always confronting her about her behavior and screaming at ther. This way she gets even with the both of them.

JoJo and CeCe were the parents of this baby for all intentional purposes. They provided for Caylee and adored her. Casey resented them both for acting like parents to Caylee; things she could not do. They were not acting lovingly to ICA anymore. They were insisting she act as a mother. This was confusing to ICA because she did not know how to be a mother. In ICA's eyes, both were ignoring her and were consumed with her baby and that is something she will not tolerate.

Caylee had to go and her type of personality would never allow for anyone else to have Caylee. Thus, her decision to get rid of Caylee was made and she killed her.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Its exactly how i feel when I view the dynamics of this.

 

[Whisperer]

Not purposely - by accident.

Trying to figure out why there weren't loads of fly evidence and how she got a big stain of decomp out is very confusing.

smipped by whisperer

I think the trunk was cleaned and vacuumed..ICA still didn't get rid of the smell so she put garbage in it. The insects migrated in car and some hid, later, crawling into bag. There food source was gone and there were fewer of them. Some found small amt of paper towels. After car was brought home, CA/GA finished cleanup, and vacuumed car again.

Remember she was parked next to a dumpster and could have put that bag in it but she needed it to explain smell if caught. She was thinking what to do with car in time but it was not a priority for her. At that point, Tony was her priority.

 

[Baznme]

smipped by whisperer

I think the trunk was cleaned and vacuumed..ICA still didn't get rid of the smell so she put garbage in it. The insects migrated in car and some hid, later, crawling into bag. There food source was gone and there were fewer of them. Some found small amt of paper towels. After car was brought home, CA/GA finished cleanup, and vacuumed car again.

Remember she was parked next to a dumpster and could have put that bag in it but she needed it to explain smell if caught. She was thinking what to do with car in time but it was not a priority for her. At that point, Tony was her priority.

Remember when the tow truck driver took GA to the car and they opened the trunk, there were many many flies that came out. Also, in spite of the cleanup of the trunk back at the A's home, the stain is still there enough to reveal the shape of the body of a child under the fluoroscopic light. The car still had the odor two years later. She was there for 3 to 5 days as testified to by the professionals.

 

[Oldsoul2]

Just a bit confused. I agree your theory makes sense until "premeditation". If the child died of an accidental overdose, and the duct tape was put on to stage a kidnapping, then that is not premeditated murder. The duct tape was premeditated, but in your scenario the child is already dead by accident. Only the staging is premeditated. Is this what you are saying?

Yes, except using chlroform to put your child to sleep is illegal and death by it would be considered murder so not quite an accident. If this was really an accident and she drowned, she would have called 911.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Yes, except using chlroform to put your child to sleep is illegal and death by it would be considered murder so not quite an accident. If this was really an accident and she drowned, she would have called 911.

No disrespect meant, but I'm curious to know why, when you appear to think that Casey is capable of cold blooded murder (I actually think she probably is too) that you think she'd call 911 in an emergency? I've asked this of several people, and no one has answered me.

 

[Nova]

No, imo, not a problem. Every one does not have to agree exactly how or why a crime happened. There are always going to be some unknowns in a crime.
What they have to agree upon is that Casey was responsible for her child's death. If 8 people think she was poisoned by chloroform, and 4 think she was duct taped to death---that is fine. They can legally and ethically vote Gulity.

What every one has to agree on is that the defendant deserves to do time as a punishment for a specific crime, and then how much. Our justice system is based upon plea deals and negotiating for higher or lower charges and punishments. So juries can do the same type of negotiations and they do--they deliberate. If I was on the jury and I wanted the DP, but nobody else did, I would be forced to cooperate and compromise, to avoid a hung jury.

The only way a jury would hang is if at least one person was absolutely convinced she was innocent of all charges. But if some think it was an accident, involving negligence, and others think it was murder 1, there is nothing wrong with coming to a compromise. imoo

The way I look at it, if it was 100% accidental, then she brought this on all by herself by the ugly, vicious way she acted. [ accusing others, blaming her friends/family, having people search and donate.] I would have no problem with her serving jail time for the things she did in the horrid aftermath.

With all due respect, katy, I don't think you read my post very carefully. I did NOT say jurors had to agree on the method of death (chloroform or duct tape, say). In the example you give, although there is disagreement re method of murder, all the methods still come to 1st degree murder. No problem there.

I said the jurors have to agree unanimously on a specific charge (1st degree, 2nd degree, etc.). I don't believe it is enough to simply agree that Casey was "somehow" responsible or even that they'd all like to see her do time.

Just because prosecutors may make deals doesn't mean jurors are allowed to do so. In my experiences as a juror, there were specific instructions prohibiting such "compromises." Of course there's also a requirement to "deliberate" and the line between deliberation and negotiation can be a fine one.

In practice, I'm aware that juries sometimes compromise and pick a lesser charge, regardless of the evidence. They aren't supposed to do so, but it certainly happens.

The DP is another matter and isn't considered until a later phase of the trial.

You are wrong that a jury can only hang if someone believes the defendant is innocent. Juries can and do hang over the difference between degrees of murder and manslaughter.

As for KC's behavior after Caylee's death, reprehensible as it may be, it is only relevant to the extent is shows cognizance of guilt OR KC is charged with a crime related to that post-death behavior (such as "tampering with evidence").

 

[Nova]

No it's not. It is only illegal if some one on the jury thinks she is totally innocent of all charges, and votes 'guilty' anyway with the others. But if 2 people think the child might have drowned, and the duct tape is a cover up, and the remaining 10 think she killed the child by some means, then there is nothing wrong with them 'deliberating.' That simply means the jurors have to hash it out and come to an agreement. Perhaps the 2 will be convinced by some evidence the others point out, and they will agree to LWOP. Or perhaps the others will agree to vote for manslaughter because otherwise it will be a hung jury. That is not illegal at all. That is exactly how our Justice system works. You are very rarely going to get 12 people to agree on every single aspect of as murder trial.

When you see jurors interviewed after a big case, which I love to do, you always hear how there were factions and divisions that needed to come to agreement. It is a group decision, which can only be accomplished by negotiations.

BBM: Well, of course if everyone comes to agreement through the deliberation process, then there is unanimity and a legal verdict. Nobody is arguing that.

My points were predicated on the assumption that the jurors were unable to agree. And you are flat out wrong that it is legal to vote a certain way just to avoid a hung jury; that is a violation of the juror's oath. (Which isn't to say it doesn't happen.)

Jurors swear to participate in the deliberation process (as opposed to sitting quietly with their minds made up), but each by law is required to reach his or her own decision beyond reasonable doubt. It isn't legal to simply vote with the majority to avoid conflict or to vote for a lesser charge to avoid a hung jury. (Yes, it happens. It isn't legal. It's also nearly impossible to prove, so I'm not saying jurors are often prosecuted for this.)

Deliberation is not the same as negotiation.

 

[GiantPickle]

No disrespect meant, but I'm curious to know why, when you appear to think that Casey is capable of cold blooded murder (I actually think she probably is too) that you think she'd call 911 in an emergency? I've asked this of several people, and no one has answered me.

because she called 911 for other events such as the protestors getting out of control at her house.

 

[Puzzler]

I've been working on this theory for a while and would like to hear opinions on it. I'm not going to include every detail for the whole day but the ones I think are important.

<respectfully snipped down to the one thing I'm commenting on>

3.00pm-4.00pm - Low computer usage, suggesting that Casey is getting some stuff together and tidying house to make it look like she's not been there - there is time available here for her to duct tape Caylee - if there is no post mortem banding on the hair in the duct tape and Caylee was still alive when it was put on it would have to be on this day that she does that - if Casey had just chloroformed Caylee and left her in the car until 2pm the next day I believe Caylee would have been dead already by that point - Also Casey backs her car into the garage the next day so she knew that Caylee was dead in the back.

Thanks for offering your very detailed theory of events to comment on!

Could you please expand on what you mean by the reference to the hair-banding and time of death, I don't understand how they are related.

 

[skip.laurent]

Like most, I have a ton of different theories as to what could have happened. I know that the defense claims that Casey was sexually abused, but what if it was Caylee that was sexually abused by someone in her life? Something happened (drowning, etc.) and KC didn't call 911 because their autopsy would show she was sexually abused? So, she put the body in the woods and if someone found the body before just bones were left, in KC's mind, the police would think Caylee was kidnapped and abused by some kidnapper? Maybe KC wanted her found earlier while she was out being carefree, so she could act like a devastated mother who thought her child was safe having fun at the beach? I don't know - just thinking about different scenarios.

OT - One of my daughters was sexually abused and lost her life at the hands of her abuser(ex's new guy she was living with) because he didn't want her telling. Also, we had a little girl that was Caylee's age found in a neighbor's pool. When we heard she was missing, the FIRST place EVERYONE ran to was our pools!! She was not found the first time we checked, nor the second... then she appeared there almost as if by magic. We were not able to save her, but when an autopsy was conducted, it showed that she had been sexually abused and they couldn't pin it on anyone as there were multiple men living in that household. Her death was ruled an accident (and everyone around here believes otherwise but cannot prove this).

I wish someone could scare KC into telling the truth

 

[Dragonlady]

No disrespect meant, but I'm curious to know why, when you appear to think that Casey is capable of cold blooded murder (I actually think she probably is too) that you think she'd call 911 in an emergency? I've asked this of several people, and no one has answered me.

I will address your question with a simple answer: calling 911 is easy!
If Caylee died by accidental drowning and ICA choose not to call 911 then her only other option would be for ICA to determine that her daughter was in fact deceased and carry her body to the car, put her body in and drive her to the hospital or the county morgue and given how lazy ICA is I doubt that she would even consider this option, also it would look pretty suspicious that she didn't call 911 and request help first.

 

[claudicici]

I am still convinced IF it was an accident KC would not have called 911 because of Cindy.There is no way she would have admitted to her mother that she let that happen IMO
Calling 911 would not have been easy at all for KC.She would not have been able to go on her date with Tony,she would have had to deal with the reality of it all.
The easiest thing for KC would be to put Caylee in the trunk and pretend it did not happen.And wait for another day to figure something out.
She called 911 because of the protesters because they were bothering her.
That's completely different.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think that Casey Anthony has only told the truth twice in the last five years.

1. "OMG! I'm such a good liar."
2. "I'm a spiteful b*tch."

I believe once Cindy stopped Casey from robbing her bank accounts in March 2008 she began to devise her methodical plan to remove Caylee from her life and from the life of her parents as well.

She began to think of what method she would use and picked chloroform as the knockout chemical to render Caylee unconscious. The duct tape was used as the murder weapon to make sure Caylee could no longer take a breath of air ever again.

Her motives were two pronged imo.


Caylee was a burden that she did not want to carry any longer. Caylee was getting older and more verbal. Caylee was a threat to Casey because she held the secret to her mothers grandiose lies and faux life.

The hate for her mother was so vengeful and spiteful she would have never given Cindy the satisfaction of giving her full custody of Caylee. Making other people truly happy is not what Casey is all about. Her life consist of only one person who matters. Everyone else /was/is collateral damage.

The fight with Cindy the night before was the triggering factor that put her predefined master plan into action.

IMO

 

[Steft50]

I have always wanted this to be an accidental death somehow but watching the jail house visitor video where her anger and frustration came out was chilling to me. With that visual and what she said (paraphrasing) "I don't have control because I don't know what is going on because I'm in here" just sent chills down my spine and left me with no doubt that she did something to her child.

Then learning about the web searches, and odor in the car, and her own worse enemy, herself. I was surprised the defense didn't go with some mental defect plea.

I think that while she didn't want to be strapped with a child, she didn't want her mother to have her either. I feel that she also didn't want to physically cause pain to Caylee, so she used the chloroform to put the child to sleep before doing whatever she did to her. I also think it could have been an accident with the Chloroform.

I am also struggeling with who came up with this defense. Has she so bamboozled her defense team that they believe everything she says while also trying to explain why she lies all the time? Mason is reported as saying he feels very grandfatherly towards her. :sick:

I keep looking at how, over a short amount of time, Casey isolated herself from her family. Did she do this herself or is the from Baez? Casey won't see them at all and looks at them with such hatred that I cannot fathom where this is coming from.

anyway, just a few thoughts and theories.