Theory #2: Family Abduction by George Waters with George Brody and/or Associates

[itsreenw]

That's a great idea. Our Brody was cremated in Oakland.

You are on your j-o-b Doogie- You amaze me!! So do we know where his ashes went after cremation? It would be nice, but next to impossible, to get DNA from his remains. I wonder if his family has listed him in a Missing Persons database and we just haven't made the match based on the info given. He had to come from somewhere.

A long time ago I came across a site where a teenager was looking for his grandfather, George Brody. I think it was on a milltary site related to a base in the Phillipines. I believe I mentioned it on WS but I cant recall why I didnt follow up on it.

 

[Shadow205]

Itsreenw,

I think I remember Doogie saying way back that George Brody had left instruction for his ashes to be disposed of.

That is interesting about the guy looking for his GrandFather, I don't remember you posting anything about that but I could have missed it.

 

[kyresearcher]

Also from the Box From Hell: I found a small section torn out what appears to be the SF Chronicle from the day before the presidential election in 1972 (early November). Evidently, what was of interest to whoever saved this scrap was either an obituary on one side for "Paul Jerome Farrell", Hattie Maude Gauthier", Jim Rock", "Frederick Smith" or Violet F. Snyder", or on the other side of the sheet, it lists an ad for Gus Hall, the Communist Party candidate for President and a few listings of political events such as fund-raisers for the McGovern /Shriver campaign and The Committee for the Re-Election of the President, and a "victory celebration" for the Socialist Workers Party. I know that GW held strong pacifist beliefs and had protested the war in Viet Nam.

Annasmom, do you know if he was a member or active in any political organiztions that might be related to the above information?[/QUOTE Does anyone remember "way back" when someone mentioned GB wanting to go to see the "ROCK" I searched for churches, wrestlers and boxers ( yes, here we go again) but never thought of someone named Rock but here we have an obit for a JIM ROCK. Could that have been what he was talking about? I believe if anyone knows how to do the genelogy that it might be a good idea to see who these people's families are.
I have also been on the Socialist Workers Party web site hoping to find if there is something that would list donations to the party but have been unable to find anything.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

The most likely connection between Waters and the newspaper clipping is that GW's sister was the president of the local chapter of the Socialist Workers Party in the Bay Area. It may have been saved by GW as a reminder that his sister would be in the immediate area that day and he might visit her (his sister was the only family member that he had not cut off ties to by November 1972). The sister has been very supportive of Annasmom and the search for Anna over the years, so there is no reason to suspect any involvement by her.

The matching up of "Joe Rock" and "the Rock" is quite a find. It may be a mere coincidence, but it may also not be one. Since we know that "Joe Rock" died in late September or early November 1972, I'll have to research when and in what context "the Rock" comment was made to see if it may be related. (This is one of the tremendous values of Websleuths - by having numerous sets of eyes reviewing the same material, some people will see things that others miss. Good job!)

 

[Shadow205]

What about Margaret Kukoda? Was any of her family ever located?

I think this question got lost in the shuffle. How about Dr. Doogie, is there anything we can persue on Margaret?

 

[WhiteWolf]

Just a thought, "the Rock" could be Alcatraz.


Edited to add: Did some googling and Alcatraz was opened for public tours (Park Service had taken over the island) on October 26th, 1972.

 

[SherlockJr]

The most likely connection between Waters and the newspaper clipping is that GW's sister was the president of the local chapter of the Socialist Workers Party in the Bay Area. It may have been saved by GW as a reminder that his sister would be in the immediate area that day and he might visit her (his sister was the only family member that he had not cut off ties to by November 1972). The sister has been very supportive of Annasmom and the search for Anna over the years, so there is no reason to suspect any involvement by her.

The matching up of "Joe Rock" and "the Rock" is quite a find. It may be a mere coincidence, but it may also not be one. Since we know that "Joe Rock" died in late September or early November 1972, I'll have to research when and in what context "the Rock" comment was made to see if it may be related. (This is one of the tremendous values of Websleuths - by having numerous sets of eyes reviewing the same material, some people will see things that others miss. Good job!)

If I remember correctly, it was when Joe was watching the two sometime later around 1978 that GW mentions something about visiting Rock.

 

[natasha-cupcake]

Just a thought, "the Rock" could be Alcatraz.


Edited to add: Did some googling and Alcatraz was opened for public tours (Park Service had taken over the island) on October 26th, 1972.

Alcatraz was my first guess when I heard that GB wanted to visit "the Rock". Does anyone think that Brody might possibly have been a prisoner who escaped from authorities? Maybe the Rock was originally meant to be his destination as a convict. His desire to visit the Rock in later years might have been an "in your face" move or a celebration of his ability to remain on the lam for so many years.

GB as an escaped prisoner could explain a lot of things. This would certainly explain his mysterious origins and his lifelong modus operandi of mooching off of other people. If there was some way to figure out exactly when "George Brody" first appeared (I have always been convinced that this is an alias and not his real name), then maybe we can research escaped convicts from the same time period, in the SF area. Am I way off or does this seem plausible?

 

[Shadow205]

Natasha,

IMHO, when it comes to George Brody, nothing is "way off."

 

[tybee204]

I recieved this message on another forum . I dont know if the info has been posted or not but I am passing it on.


Just a note
Hi, Tybee.

I follow the Anna Waters case on WS, but not a member because I still use the AOL addy. But I found a piece of info that may or may not be helpful. Would you be able to pass this on.

It's an obit from "The Morning Call" in Allentown, PA. For Michael J. Tapajcik. It refers to a Margaret Kukoda that may be related to a person that Shadow205 was wondering about. The family could be related.

On Ancestry
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.northam.usa.states.pennsylvania.counties.lehigh/1113/mb.ashx

If someone is leery of a link, I went to search on Ancestry, checked all boards, and put in the name Kukoda and found it that way.

They may have already seen this but just in case, who knows. I am so hoping they solve that case.

If you can do this, I'd appreciate it.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Tybee:

I do not believe that we have seen that before. Thanks to your "tipster" and to you for bring it to our attention.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Here is the relevant part of Tybee's link:

"From the "Morning Call," Allentown, Lehigh Co., PA, Saturday, June 23, 2001.

Michael J. TAPAJCIK, 84, of 541 Magnolia Road, Hellertown, died Friday, June 22, in Blough Health Care Services, Bethlehem. He was the husband of Margaret A. (KUKODA) TAPAJCIK. They were married for 61 years in May."

WTF? This fits the name and approximate age of our Margaret and we have never uncovered a different person of the same name (especially in PA). But our Margaret died in 1967 and was not married. I am so confused... :waitasec:

 

[Marie]

Here is the relevant part of Tybee's link:

"From the "Morning Call," Allentown, Lehigh Co., PA, Saturday, June 23, 2001.

Michael J. TAPAJCIK, 84, of 541 Magnolia Road, Hellertown, died Friday, June 22, in Blough Health Care Services, Bethlehem. He was the husband of Margaret A. (KUKODA) TAPAJCIK. They were married for 61 years in May."

WTF? This fits the name and approximate age of our Margaret and we have never uncovered a different person of the same name (especially in PA). But our Margaret died in 1967 and was not married. I am so confused... :waitasec:

Hope this helps - She was easy enough to find on Ancestry. Margaret A. Kudoka was born to Anthony (Tony) & Esther Kukoda. Siblings Tony, Anna, Stephen, Paul, Joseph, Frank, Michael (Mick), John & Madaline. In 1930 she's living with her parents & above named siblings in Durham, Bucks County, Pennsylvania. She was born in New Jersey, her parents born in Hungary. On the 15th/16th of January 1920 the family is in Harmony, Warren County, New Jersey and she is aged 2 years 9 months (making her birthdate around March 1917). Her husband Michael was born 9 May 1917. I don't see an obvious SSDI record for this Margaret, so she may still be living or her death was not reported to SS.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Hope this helps - She was easy enough to find on Ancestry. Margaret A. Kudoka was born to Anthony (Tony) & Esther Kukoda. Siblings Tony, Anna, Stephen, Paul, Joseph, Frank, Michael (Mick), John & Madaline. In 1930 she's living with her parents & above named siblings in Durham, Bucks County, Pennsylvania. She was born in New Jersey, her parents born in Hungary. On the 15th/16th of January 1920 the family is in Harmony, Warren County, New Jersey and she is aged 2 years 9 months (making her birthdate around March 1917). Her husband Michael was born 9 May 1917. I don't see an obvious SSDI record for this Margaret, so she may still be living or her death was not reported to SS.

This is the same genealogical info I have for our Margaret Kukoda. The question is: Did I mistakenly think that this woman's history was our Margaret's or did our "Margaret" assume this woman's identity? And if she did, how did she assume it and why?

IS ANYBODY IN THIS CASE WHO THEY CLAIMED TO BE?????????

 

[Marie]

This is the same genealogical info I have for our Margaret Kukoda. The question is: Did I mistakenly think that this woman's history was our Margaret's or did our "Margaret" assume this woman's identity? And if she did, how did she assume it and why?

IS ANYBODY IN THIS CASE WHO THEY CLAIMED TO BE?????????

Well, I suppose there could still be two different Margarets as it appears the birthdates (months) are different and I found no information stating that the Margaret from these census records is the same Margaret who married Tapajcik - but I found no other Census records for any other Margaret. Of course, the name could be horribly mis-spelled.

 

[smile22]

what if brody gave her the name beacuse they both were on the run from something?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

what if brody gave her the name beacuse they both were on the run from something?

If it turns out that Margaret Kukoda is not really her name, it does have that Brody odor about it.

 

[Annasmom]

Well, I suppose there could still be two different Margarets as it appears the birthdates (months) are different and I found no information stating that the Margaret from these census records is the same Margaret who married Tapajcik - but I found no other Census records for any other Margaret. Of course, the name could be horribly mis-spelled.

I thought I had "our" Margaret's death certificate, but find it was in the box given to the Sheriff's officers last month, and apparently I did not make a copy. However, I would like to note that genealogists (my mother is one) frequently find the same name appearing again and again in the family tree. Mother once identified a distant cousin simply because his middle name was Arthur, a name used frequently in one branch of the family. Another thing I would like to point out was that George Brody believed his own BS. He may have taken advantage of people, but he did believe he was some kind of guru and that he was doing them a favor. I don't believe he was running from the law; he was just paranoid.

 

[itsreenw]

Itsreenw,

I think I remember Doogie saying way back that George Brody had left instruction for his ashes to be disposed of.

That is interesting about the guy looking for his GrandFather, I don't remember you posting anything about that but I could have missed it.

It was a long time ago and I may not have posted it, intending to find out more info first. I will try to find it again. I do remember the Phillipines connection. Oh, let me check my "Anna" file.

 

[GraceBlue]

The sibling names are different...


Agnes E. (Kukoda) Gregory

Agnes E. (Kukoda) Gregory, age 81, of Hellertown PA, died Monday, May 17, 2004 at the VNA Hospice at St. Luke's, Bethlehem PA. She was the Widow of the late Harry B. Gregory.

Born in Hellertown PA, she was the Daughter of James and Agnes (Koczan) Kukoda. She worked at Durkee Famous Foods, Bethlehem PA for 28 years. She was a Member of St. George's Episcopal Church, Hellertown PA. She was a Democratic Committee Woman for 15 years.

She is survived by her Daughters, Ruth M., wife of William O'Toole of Emmaus PA, Janice E., wife of the Honorable Richard T. Fluck of Hellertown PA, Faye A., wife of John Roth of Coopersburg PA, Jo Anne, wife of Robert Hornyak of Hellertown PA and Lois J., wife of Terry Hahn of Hellertown PA; Brothers, Charles E. Kukoda of Bethlehem PA and Louis J. Kukoda of Paoli PA; Sisters, Margaret Tapajcik of Hellertown PA and Helen Fekete of Bethlehem PA; 14 Grandchildren and 19 Great Grandchildren. She is predeceased in death by her Son, William.

Funeral Services will be held 10:00 a.m. Thursday at the St. George's Episcopal Church, 735 Delaware Avenue, Hellertown PA. Friends and Family may call 7:00 - 8:30 p.m. Wednesday at the Heintzelman Funeral Home, Inc., 326 Main Street, Hellertown PA.

Memorial Contributions may be made to the VNA Hospice at St. Luke's, 709 Delaware Ave., Bethlehem PA 18015.