Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

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I know if I were Oscar, I would likely be packing now and saying goodbye to SA for good. He will be a pariah, but better in Mozambique than in jail. I would probably be considering suicide also.

Anyone remember the guy in the US who, immediately after he was found guilty, swallowed a cyanide pill in court and died within minutes? OP is enough of a coward to do that, IMO.

:behindbar:

I don't think OP will commit suicide because he's too much of a narcissist. Then again, he can be weirdly impulsive.. a live wire, as they say. So, who knows what this character might do..
 
Haha.................no way IMO.
BIB by myself.
Are you saying..............'THEY' as in Roux and the defence should have told Frank to go on the stand and lie?
Tell the court he heard no argument etc etc etc ??
You are joking of course?
Aren't you?

Good plan until Frank is under X with Nel.

Nel..............so Frank the dogs were barking?
Frank...........Yes.
Nel...........But nobody else heard them!
Frank..........erm.........I did.
Nel...............You heard no argument?
Frank.........No.
Nel...........but someone else heard it!
Frank........I didn't.
Nel.............You heard OP shouting to Reeva to call the Police?
Frank.............erm well erm yes erm well

Your right that would have caused a huge problem for the state !
Your kidding right?

How about.................

Nel...............Frank were you in the house the night of the killing?
Frank.........Yes I heard everything.
Nel.............So you must have heard Reeva and OP arguing then Reeva screaming for her life just before he shot her 3 times and blew her brains out?
Frank..............I heard the dogs barking.
Frank..........I didn't hear anyone arguing or raised voices.
Nel..............but you heard dogs barking when nobody else did?
Frank....they must be mistaken.
Nel..........4 people heard Reeva screaming and yelling for her life just before hearing the gunshots that blew her brains out on that night did you hear her screams?
Frank...............I heard the dogs barking................................................................................

Yes 44ALLAN, my fellow Sleuther - I AM asking you to consider this.

I enjoyed your response but you missed the point. It would not matter what Frank said on the stand or how he was ripped to pieces.....

OP would not have had to give evidence if Frank was a first hand witness..... I'm emphasising the theory that OP has been one of the States best witnesses and the Defence missed a chance to counter that...:-)
 
....and Frank could of possibly saved Reeva's life.


Kind of a Kato ( OJ Simpson) guesthouse mess.
Remember that?
Kato played ( theatric)dumb but I think he was sorry & fearful he ever opened his mouth

JMO
 
....and Frank could of possibly saved Reeva's life.


Kind of a Kato ( OJ Simpson) guesthouse mess.
Remember that?
Kato played ( theatric)dumb but I think he was sorry & fearful he ever opened his mouth

JMO

Kato K. was asked recently if OJ did it. He immediately asked what the statute for perjury was and they said 20 years.
He then said (something like) he killed two people with a samurai sword I was scared to death of him ....I lied on the stand. Frank might have been this trials Kato too. KK was declared a hostile witness and testimony unreliable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcD4E-w7qVY
 
How BAD are OP’s chances on Sept. 11?

Well, let’s just say it’s no cosmic accident that My Lady will render her verdict on that date.

Defense’s case has been a farcical, ridiculous, duct-tape-and-glue shambles right out of the gate.

Dixon is the illustrative poster-boy for their entire case.

That Roux would even present Dixon as an “expert witness” starkly illustrates how utterly desperate the Defense has been from Day One.

The guy’s a freakin geologist and unless OP killed Reeva with a stunning, 5 pound, pink Paleolithic quartz crystal, his jack-of-all-trades “expertise” in every forensic field was worse than useless! Did Roux actually think Nel and My Lady would not notice this buffoon?!! :lol: (Did Roux’s team go through the phone book, frantically calling expert after expert - oooh, ROCKS! This guy looks like a winner!)

It appears Roux’s amateurish, low quality, last minute, ill-prepared defense experts point to only one fact: the best, most credible experts available gauged OP’s story from the get go (one doesn’t need a Ph.D) and decided they would not testify for love or money in favor of a murderous liar, nor risk their good reputations. (Anyone seen pathologist Reggie Perumal lately? lol)

If Roger “Rock Hound” Dixon, Thomas “What Reports?” Wolmarans, Merryll “GAD” Vorster, Yvette “Star-Struck-in-Love-With-Oscar-Pistorius” van Schalkwyk*, Wayne “Fireworks” Derman, etc. were the best Defense could do, they knew going in that freeing OP was going to be all but impossible.

Their worst, most damning nightmare of all? Oscar Pistorius.

Nothing can save their Rogue Drama Queen Client from himself ... or prison.


* Van Schalkwyk was so upset and indignant that claims were made that OP was acting in court that she volunteered her testimony** to the Defense! She, a lone heroine, declared OP was not acting. So what was her proof? She saw and talked to him up close and very personal right after the shooting!

She never entertained the idea that while part of his distress in that cell was real (mostly all for himself), he was also acting, above and beyond, for her benefit (he knew why she was there). Not to mention this was her very first experience with any killer immediately after arrest. OP is looking at 25+ years in prison - I’d be screaming, crying and puking, too.

Van Schalkwyk was a court-appointed employee, directed by the state, in the state’s interest, to observe OP. He certainly had no interest in revealing any “truth” to her! Of course everything he said, everything he did would be calculated lies to save his azz. What better way to deflect conviction than act the brokenhearted, loving, anguished boyfriend for the official record?

Yeah...the same tormented guy who flirted in a bar 52 days after the shooting with a Reeva-clone, vacationed with smiling buddies in Mozambique, got a new girlfriend in December, drunkenly partied/brawled at the VIP Room ... then, within hours, reminded us with an onslaught of tweets what a godly, generous, kind-hearted, falsely-persecuted hero he still is. Aww. *sniff* Surely Ms. van Schalkwyk is correct - OP is no Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde! The rest of us are simply blind to the real Oscar.

** What was that about scared, unwilling witnesses you couldn’t round up, Roux? :lol:
 
If OP is (expectedly) found guilty of murder, is it possible an extemely high bail would be set (and paid by his very wealthy family) to keep OP out of jail during the expected appeal?
 
If Oscar were to flee SA into Mozambique, it seems to me he would have to be in disguise and with false documents. I suspect border control is very aware of the OP situation and would be ordered to detain him. Or, are there areas where OP could sneak across with an accomplish waiting in Mozambique to pick him up and provide his funds?

But I worry that some corrupt officials would accept a pay off, and allow him to fly in on a chartered plane and hole up in the family compound.
 
From that article:

As a double-amputee who is living in an area with a high crime rate, Pistorius has reason to be fearful of a break-in.

He lived in a very secure gated community, where the residents happily slept with the doors or windows open. OP himself snoozed while his balcony doors were open, so he was not fearful of a break in. Some of these articles do exaggerate.
 
If Oscar were to flee SA into Mozambique, it seems to me he would have to be in disguise and with false documents. I suspect border control is very aware of the OP situation and would be ordered to detain him. Or, are there areas where OP could sneak across with an accomplish waiting in Mozambique to pick him up and provide his funds?

If OP wants to flee, his family will just bribe border guards to ensure he is allowed across. I think this is one of the reasons why the PT will fight strongly against bail if he is convicted.
 
bbm - I would just like to not that the time of the second set of bangshots is not precise.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/06/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-4/


Thus if you believe like me that all OP had to do was 1.rip out the panels after the fact, 2.open the toilet room door(I still don't think RS had locked it, if in fact it ever was but if it was I'm leaning toward OP having locked her in, re OP's need for her to have just said something), 3.decide his course of action(get her body out of there asap, after all she wasn't even supposed to have spent the night and that drive is soooo dangerous, or cry intruder-help help help again), 4.grab his phones(here I don't think he'd left any downstairs while he "slept" or there would have been no need to charge them again already that morning unless he has really crappy batteries), 5.then while putting on his "legs" 6.call his "uncle" Stander for help/advice/pr, 7.call your private ambulance service, grieving bf and all that(plus they would take the body away for him and bonus, tamper with the evidence), 8. field a nosy security call(you know, the ones you can't trust...), and 9.carry RS downstairs so noone will see the bloody mess upstairs.

Considering he actually had closer to 6 minutes to do all that(approximately 3:17 and Stander's didn't get there until approximately 3:23) then yes, I certainly think he had enough time, even with the added wailing...

However, that darn nosy neighbour showed up...

Thanks, this makes sense. While the shots did occur at approximately at 3:17 and the first call is at 3:19, there is nothing that says he had to finish everything in those two minutes. As you mentioned, he had until 3:23 to complete everything. Appreciate it!
 
If OP is (expectedly) found guilty of murder, is it possible an extemely high bail would be set (and paid by his very wealthy family) to keep OP out of jail during the expected appeal?

There's no doubt that the defence team will seek bail, but the PT will fight strongly against it.

One of the reasons he was given bail before the trial was because he had fixed assets and there was a presumption of innocence. This time around, he has sold many of his fixed assets and if he is seeking bail, it would mean he is guilty on at least one or more charges. Hopefully he won't be treated with kid gloves and given bail.
 
From that article:

As a double-amputee who is living in an area with a high crime rate, Pistorius has reason to be fearful of a break-in.

He lived in a very secure gated community, where the residents happily slept with the doors or windows open. OP himself snoozed while his balcony doors were open, so he was not fearful of a break in. Some of these articles do exaggerate.

I know. It makes one wonder who and why reporters make it up. Do they never check the facts before they spout such unadulterated rubbish. Everyone knows the bedroom balcony doors were open; not something one does if one is security conscious. It seems quite a number of his neighbours also left their doors/windows open. Hardly likely that Judge Masipa will miss that methinks.

Pretoria does have a high crime rate but not on the security guarded estates; anything but.
 
I received a new blog from Lisa this morning and I’m sure you’ll want to read it. Day 33 contains a report given by OP to Dr Versveld (the orthopaedic surgeon who amputated OP’s legs) as to the current condition of his stumps together with the doctor’s findings.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/
 
I received a new blog from Lisa this morning and I’m sure you’ll want to read it. Day 33 contains a report given by OP to Dr Versveld (the orthopaedic surgeon who amputated OP’s legs) as to the current condition of his stumps together with the doctor’s findings.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/

I'm FINALLY getting caught up. How ridiculous is that. I'll have the last remaining days done before this week's verdict. Although, I just fell asleep writing about Derman, no joke. Full on fell asleep sitting up in front of my computer :giggle: I'll finish that one tomorrow.
 
BIB

Here is the link http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...s-tantrum-days-ahead-of-murder-trial-judgment .

When I went directly to the link, I was able to read the article, but coming from Google, it said I had to be a paid subscriber. In case anyone else has trouble, I have included the article below.

Clearly showing the strain of his ordeal, a bearded and stressed Pistorius admitted that he was not coping with the pressure.

It also emerged this week that the disabled athlete has ditched all of the homes he owned in South Africa, which suggests he is bracing for a lengthy legal battle if convicted on Thursday when Judge Thokozile Masipa hands down judgment.

Pistorius exploded with anger when he pulled up to the Waterkloof house in a new white Volvo XC60 on Friday and saw a Sunday Times team.

He has pleaded not guilty to murdering his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, who the state alleges he shot in a fit of rage on Valentine's Day last year. Pistorius claims he mistook her for an intruder.

Asked how he was doing, Pistorius, who appeared to have just come from the gym, angrily snapped: "How can you ask me that? Do you really have the audacity to ask me how I am doing at this point in my life? What I am going through and feeling ... I really cannot deal with this right now."

Trembling with anger, Pistorius said he deserved privacy.

The fallen athletics star, who is out on bail of R1-million, sold the house where he killed Steenkamp at the Silver Woods Country Estate for R4.5-million this year.

It has now emerged that he has since sold two other Pretoria homes, which were listed as immovable assets in his bail application in February last year.

With a defence team consisting of a senior and junior advocate and a small army of other lawyers and forensic experts, his legal bill for the trial - which has run for 41 court days so far - is estimated at well over R3-million.

The two houses at the Weeping Willow Estates in Equestria, Pretoria, were sold for R1-million and R1.03-million, according to deeds records which listed the transfer dates as July 16 and 31.

The sale of these properties fuels speculation that he is raising cash for further legal fees in the event he is found guilty.

If convicted of murder, the fact that he no longer owns property in South Africa could count against him should he have to re-apply for bail.

Professor Stephen Tuson of the University of the Witwatersrand's law clinic said the court was likely to reconsider the question of bail in the event of a conviction.

" The court is required to reconsider, because after conviction the accused could be considered a more serious flight risk. The defence would have to make an application for bail, pending the outcome of an appeal," Tuson said.

Lawyer Ulrich Roux said: "The argument is of course that the temptation to flee is so much stronger when a convicted person is possibly faced with a lengthy period of imprisonment."

Roux said when an applicant for bail had immovable property registered in his name, it provided a measure of security "in that he has a vested interest and valuable assets in the country which he will forfeit should he abscond".

"Not having any fixed property makes it easier for a person to flee as there is no risk of losing the said property and suffering substantial financial losses."

Roux said Pistorius's legal bill could be running as high as R100,000 per court day.

The athlete's two homes in Weeping Willow Estates were sold below the price houses in this estate usually go for. Photos of one of the units, listed on a property website, show it has three bedrooms, two bathrooms and a pool.

Arena Viljoen, an estate agent for Homesdot who has sold houses in Weeping Willow Estates, said the usual price for a three-bedroom, two-bathroom unit was in the region of R1.15-million.

One of Pistorius's properties in the estate was bought by a company called Eben Kruger Bemarking. A manager at this company, Ryno van Niekerk, confirmed the purchase but declined to comment.

Pistorius bought the house in 2007 for R674,700.

The other property, which Pistorius bought in 2008 for R800,000, was sold to a young businessman who the Sunday Times was unable to reach for comment.

Pistorius, who earned about R5.6-million a year at the time of the shooting, had listed the Silver Woods house, the two Weeping Willow units and a vacant stand in Langebaan in the Western Cape as assets.

It is not clear whether the Langebaan stand has also been sold.

Pistorius, in his bail application, also said he owned cars, jewellery and furniture worth more than R500,000 and had "cash investments" of more than R1-million with South African banks.

However, he also faces a potential civil claim from Steenkamp's parents, June and Barry, who have indicated their legal action is on hold pending the outcome of the murder trial.

Roux said Pistorius would not be able to plead poverty should a civil claim be lodged.

"The fact that he placed on record that he owned four properties and was in a strong financial position, as well as his access to funds through other means, will all be considered. Any proceeds derived from the sale of the properties will be considered accordingly."

Well, there you have it - the "trial court" Oscar ... and the real Oscar.

Seems like a genuinely heartbroken, repentant, contrite man would be rather more subdued and at least coolly civil.

Politely and/or coldly ignoring people also generally works well to get your point across (especially journalists).

(You'd think he'd be grateful the media still wants to interview him. LOL)

But hey, why be civil when you can be a nasty, belligerent piece of work?

Every new insight into OP, every new detail, each new secret that's uncovered helps me understand Feb. 14, 2013 that much better.

I imagine all the long-hidden "stories" about him (from (ex)friends, foes and acquaintances) that finally come forth after the verdict will be a story in itself.

Maybe Frank will finally talk.

Seriously, the guy could make a fortune with a book.
 
Quick question to the 'he locked Reeva in the toilet' theorists - why would he then break the door down?

As shown by the state's line of questioning, they didn't consider it plausible that an intruder would lock themselves in so I don't believe Pistorius would add that complication to the scene on the spot.

Is it possible Pistorius locked Steenkamp in, with the key but she then used the internal locking mechanism to keep the door locked after Pistorius tried to open it (perhaps once he'd got his legs on or armed himself)?

Just riffin'...
 
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