Things that make you wonder

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Cindy and George go to the car impound lot. Cindy leaves and goes back to work. George drives the car home, almost gagging the entire way home as Lee Anthony told investigators with a chuckle. (This guy is warped, IMO.)

George puts the car into the garage at the Anthony home. Did he not also remove the battery or some such thing "so no one could take it"? Clearly meaning Casey.

Now, George told investigators he "had his nose right onto the stain" during his interview. So what else did he do? Remove items from the trunk? Remove the carseat and Caylee's favorite babydoll from the backseat? All of this with a stench so overpowering that it "hit you in waves" Lee stated - and Lee didn't get there until later that evening!

Do not tell me that George, a former police officer, did not strongly suspect right then and there that Caylee was dead. Come on, strong smell of death, carseat, favorite doll, and a daughter that you KNOW has serious, serious problems.

So now Cindy comes home. Was George still there when Cindy arrived? Did they have a car-cleaning party? When did Cindy was Casey's slacks that stunk so bad "from pizza"? Were they already washed before she went to pick up Amy?

IMO the coverup for Casey began before they had even located her!


ITA!!! Well said! Hurray! As to the part I bolded....THANK GOD GEORGE IS NO LONGER IN LE! Can you imagine him as your loved one's homocide investigator? No Thanks!
 
Just curios, where did you see that? In the police interview YM asks Cindy why she hasn't given him the JC Penny reports he asked her for and she answers, there is nothing there.
 
I know much of the case has been hashed, and rehashed. Argued and debated, but I thought I would go back and reread some of the transcripts and see what jumped out at me that was different. This exchange caught my attention and has me wondering. :waitasec:

This came from the July 25th visit between KC and parents. While most of KC's responses seem evasive and such, this stuck out. It came out of the blue and in typical KC fashion she quickly changed the subject.

CA: I have a question
KC: I can honestly say I appreciate it. Yes?
CA : Your tiffany ring...
KC: Uh hum
CA: You know the little heart ring? where is it?
KC : I dont know. i havent seen it for a long time
CA: And who gave you that ring again? i forget.
KC: Jeff [pause]
CA: Ok...uhm, we cant find Jeff

Question is, what makes the ring important? Seems to be a very odd thing to ask about unless CA thought it was somehow connected. It feels as if CA is trying to trip KC up...?

What odd things make you wonder? Things that may not have grabbed our attention the first time we saw them.
Cindy also asks her "Why didn't she ever go pick up the car, it doesn't make any sense?"
Did Casey tell her the nanny left the car at Amscot?
 
Brad Conway finally said ,"They don't know. They just don't know now", in one interview after the body was found and the items proved to be from the Anthony home , the linen, the laundry bag, etc.
 
Did anyone ever see the video where the reporters are asking CA and GA if Caylee ever mentioned Zanny? CA said that she talked about her puppy all the time. She also went on to say that there was no need to ask Caylee about her day, it was all about lovin' time. Are you kidding me? It is so natural to ask a kid things like "So what did Zanny give you for lunch?" and "Did Zanny take you to the park today?" To not ask is weird in my opinion and I can't imagine CA not wanting to know about Caylee's day so of course she asked her about her day and probably didn't like the answers she started to get . . . or the quizzical looks like "who is Zanny?" from Caylee.

So I am and always will be in total wonder about the ease in which CA, KC and LA lie. It's just a natural thing for them. Maybe that's why GA is the black sheep of the family. He's not a liar like they are.
In her interview with police Cindy says,"I believe in the beginning Zanny was a real person, but now I think it just stands for whoever is watching Caylee that day, just as at one time there wasa boyfriend Jeff and now "Jeff" is short for whoever her boyfriend at the time is. So she knew AND ADMITTED SHE KNEW THERE IS NO NANNY WHO TOOKTHE BABY. SHE EVEN SAID "I THINK NANNY IS EITHER AMY OR JESSE".
 
Did anyone ever see the video where the reporters are asking CA and GA if Caylee ever mentioned Zanny? CA said that she talked about her puppy all the time. She also went on to say that there was no need to ask Caylee about her day, it was all about lovin' time. Are you kidding me? It is so natural to ask a kid things like "So what did Zanny give you for lunch?" and "Did Zanny take you to the park today?" To not ask is weird in my opinion and I can't imagine CA not wanting to know about Caylee's day so of course she asked her about her day and probably didn't like the answers she started to get . . . or the quizzical looks like "who is Zanny?" from Caylee.

So I am and always will be in total wonder about the ease in which CA, KC and LA lie. It's just a natural thing for them. Maybe that's why GA is the black sheep of the family. He's not a liar like they are.
AT THE MEMORIAL cINDY SAYS ON HER WAY HOME FROM WORK EACH DAY SHE WOULD CALL HOME AND CAYLEE WOULD TELL HER ALL ABOUT HER DAY.
 
The JonBenet Ramsey case was one where they talked about forgiveness.

I wonder if KC really did have a BlackJack phone. Are there records for it? Would this be the one she bought with her grandparent's money or did she pay a bill with that money? I forget.

I also wonder about KC's dramatic rendition of the JBPark story where ZFG and her sisters met with her to tell her they were going to kidnap Caylee. If they already had the child, why would they meet with her to tell her that? LOL It is all so ridiculous that I can't believe her family would go along with this story.

I also wonder if the Anthonys' were to accept the fact that KC killed Caylee, would she then feel free to admit she was with Caylee when she died?

In watching yet another round of the infamous jailhouse video of KC with her parents on NG last night, I wonder what the Anthonys must be thinking when KC changes the subject every time they try to ask a question about Caylee. You see CA go silent for a moment and I wonder what she is thinking at that precise moment. Certainly, she must know the truth.

JMO-Sue
In her August tirade jailhouse visit she actually says ,"I chose dad to be the one I want to meet with because Lee would come at me with a list of questions and mom has a tendency to dominate the conversation". George calling her gorgeous and telling her he loves he and calling her sweetie is all she wanted, no talk about Caylee! Did she ever, in any of those visits ask how the search was going?
 
Things that make you go hmmmmm.....?



There are so many things that we don't know, but LE does know. Hmmm....

Remember when the neighbor on Hopespring said that KC borrowed their shovel? Hmmmm......?

Wonder if they are the same neighbors next door to the Anthony's--the neighbor who took the Anthony's bags of trash? Hmmm......?

Still wondering what was in those trash bags! Hmmm.....?

Ms. Baden's messy, sloppy, worst case scenario hair "style", color job, personal appearance....Hmmmmmm?

WAS there any evidence taken of the insect activity in KC's trunk when they found it with the smell? Hmmmm.....?

Why the dickens does Cindy A. have to stroke GA's and LA's arms, legs, back, body, over and over like somebody strokes a dog? Does she only do this in public to appear "nurturing" (maybe so they will notice this nurturing ability at her work and let her keep her job, lol?). It really contrasts with her baseball bat and hammer. lol ....Hmmmmm?

If dogs could talk, what would the little dog at the Anthony's say? Dogs know the truth. ...Hmmmmm?
That neighbor later told police he saw Casey come to the house with at least one man several times over the month her parents thought she was missing. There are pictures on the web of the lady with the garbage and you can see a lot of it is hate mail, but oone thing is VERY interesting, a little note written to George, "Dad call_______, I think the house is bugged!", so only Lee or Casey would have written it. If the house and the phones were bugged I am glad.
 
I have been thinking a lot about LA statement that he has to believe his sister. When you listen to what he says right after that it is very interesting. He says something about if you don't believe someone then they stop trusting you or some such thing. I don't know the exact words. If they ever hope to find out what truly happened to cause Caylee's death they will have to stay on the good side of KC. Now I for one just can't imagine her ever telling the truth about it but her family knows another side of her that we have not seen and they have hopes that someday that girl will tell them the truth. So they don't want to rock the boat and make her any madder than absolutely necessary. I saw that when they would question her. If she started getting upset, they would back off. To me they looked like scared people trying to handle her with kid gloves which is probably always what was done. I remember some analyst on tv said KC was a bully. I can just see her as a teen threatening to run away or kill herself if she couldn't have her way and they would get scared and back off. I remember once someone asked how family members can continue to back a murderer and it was explained that they probably never saw that side of the person so they can't imagine their loved one doing something so utterly horrible. We often think our families see us at our worst but that is with normal people. Murderers hide that side of themselves.
For every accused murderer there is a mother in the courtroom professing, "No. Not my son, he would not do this!" Every time, with very few exceptions.
 
AT THE MEMORIAL cINDY SAYS ON HER WAY HOME FROM WORK EACH DAY SHE WOULD CALL HOME AND CAYLEE WOULD TELL HER ALL ABOUT HER DAY.

It is really easy to plant a story into a two year old's mind and to get them to say things you want them to say. Caylee may well have said things about her day.

My daughter started talking about a new friend she called "Cousin JoEllen" soon after my ex and I separated. I thought it was an imaginary friend. After my divorce was final, my ex married "Cousin JoEllen" and I found out her real name was Linda. She wasn't a cousin or imaginary.

By saying some dog you see is Zanny's dog or by telling your child that Zanny says to color a picture for grandma, you can get a child to talk about someone who doesn't exist. A whole team of daycare workers was prosecuted for molesting kids based upon the testimony of children repeating what they THOUGHT adults wanted them to say. Casey probably put a lot of Caylee's words straight into Caylee's mouth or spoke for her.

JMO
 
I totally agree with you, and it irritates me to no end that she was treated this way for so long...WHY? why is she so important that she should never be accountable for her actions?? UGH!
In the bible it says "Spare the rod, spoil the child", translation: You must set limits and have a child be accountable, otherwise you set a child up for failure, to have no empathy or understanding of consequences. Casey is an extreme example, but a lot of parents make this mistake and raise entitled very childish kids who have an arrested emotional development (Scott Peterson). The interesting thing is that by all accounts Cindy was very strict with Casey, so it isn't as if she purosely created a monster. Lee seems to be a well grounded and responsible young man. I always find it interesting that every family has their Cane and Able, even though the kids are raised with the exact same parents and family values, so some of it she was just born with. Lee was being as honest as he could by admitting his approach with Casey, the end justifying the means if he wanted to eventually get the truth out of her he would take any bits of it she would offer or slip up to divulge so he could keep his promise to Caylee to learn what really happened. I think they all believe it was an accident and she got scared, feaked out and hid the body, watched a movie Tony rented from Blockbuster that day about a nanny taking a child and adopted that story at short notice.
 
I, as well as many others, am curious about why the Anthonys never tried to get custody of Caylee. If Cindy was seeing a therapist who advised CA to seek custody of little Caylee and to kick KC out of the house, then there had to be some reason that the therapist made such a suggestion. CA must have been discussing KC's issues for quite some time for that suggestion to have been made. I would expect the therapist to speak with CA about her problems and to either offer an opportunity to try family counseling with KC OR to work with CA on developing a strategy to deal with KC more effectively. Once these approaches had proven to be useless, then I would expect the therapist to suggest legal action. Another thing....I don't think that anyone would wake up one morning and think "I'm going to start seeing a therapist today" when they don't have any problems or concerns to address in therapy. Something fairly significant had to be going on for CA to seek treatment in the first place. So, if my assumptions are true, I can conclude that there were problems between CA and KC regarding Caylee way before Caylee went missing. Otherwise, the custody issue would have never been discussed in therapy.
I'm sure that if the Anthony's could go back and re-do everything they would have come up with the money to gain custody no matter how they had to obtain the funds. This probably sounds mean, but we know they aren't opposed to profiting from Caylee's death, so why would they have a problem with getting money by other dishonest or unethical means if they weren't able to come by it any other way? They seem to have had plenty of dirt on KC to prove that she was an unfit mother (no job, no house, no vehicle in her name, no way to provide for Caylee). It doesn't seem like they would have had any trouble with convincing the judge that Caylee would be much better off in their care. If nothing else, they could have at least tried for grandparent's rights to visitation (or whatever you call it). If they were without money and they thought they were without enough evidence to convince the judge to grant custody, then why didn't they just TAKE physical custody without going through the court? Legal or not, if I thought that my grandchild was in danger or exposed to anything questionable I would snatch that baby up and take her home with me in a heartbeat! Would it have been considered a kidnapping if the Anthony's had forced Casey to leave their house while refusing to let Caylee leave with her? Caylee obviously lived with them because all of her belongings were in the house. I think KC would have had a tough time trying to prove that the Anthony's house wasn't Caylee's home. I mean, what could KC do about it? Can a child be "kidnapped" if they are at their home with their primary caregivers? Would the police have told the A's to allow Caylee to leave with her mother if they knew that KC had nowhere to go?
I hope I make sense with all my rambling and I hope I haven‘t been too confusing ( I‘ve managed to confuse myself a little, actually) J. I also hope that I haven't been too harsh about the whole thing. It's easy to make judgments and say "what I would have done" because I have never been in their situation. I can't help but think about how much heartbreak and regret could have been prevented if they had done just a little bit more to keep Caylee safe. I would argue that being in debt for the rest of your life, being charged with kidnapping, spending time in jail, or fighting with the legal system for years is an insignificant price to pay when you consider that the life of your grandbaby could be at stake.

I really enjoy reading everyone's thoughts and ideas....every day there is a new 'Hmmmmm" that gets pointed out that I never would have thought of! There are great minds at work here at Websleuths!
It takes a lot more than she stays out late partying while we watch her daughter and she isn't working while she lives here with us and we provide for her and her daughter, she's an ungratefull little brat to take a child away legally, I know this because I have been a foster parent home for 20 years. The state reunites mothers with their children that have been arrested for selling drugs, prostitution, neglect, drug addiction.....you name it after a little jail or rehab or parenting classes the court orders. It is a very high hurdle to take away a child from a parent legally. Casey would get the bio dad to step forward and object to G&C getting custody of his child, just to spite them. I know everyone here means well, but you have a poor understanding of what they could do legally opposed to what we all wish could have been done. I am glad she was seeking help from a counselor and calling all her friends trying to get to the bottom of what was going on. Regardless, it is easy to throw stones but they have lost their beloved grandaughter, and that is the one fact that is undisputed, she was adored by them. Furthermore, George even says in his FBI interview he knows what physical things are going to happen to Casey when she goes to prison, how they treat people who do something to a child. So they have that heavy on their heart, not only that she may have done it and where did they go wrong but imagining her being beaten and raped and likely killed one day in prison. Can't everybody realize the pain they are in? I wouldn't wish it on anyone, it nearly drove George to end his life.
 
Absolutely because it's always all about Cindy.
Children Learn What They Live

If a child lives with criticism ~ He learns to condemn.
If a child lives with hostility ~ He learns to fight.
If a child lives with ridicule ~ He learns to be shy.
If a child lives with shame ~ He learns to feel guilty.

If a child lives with tolerance ~ He learns to be patient.
If a child lives with encouragement ~ He learns confidence.
If a child lives with praise ~ He learns to appreciate.
If a child lives with fairness ~ He learns justice.

If a child lives with security ~ He learns to have faith.
If a child lives with approval ~ He learns to like himself.
If a child lives with acceptance and friendship ~
He learns to find love in the world.


My Grandmother used to have us sit down and write an apology when we were being punished to make sure we understood what we did , and have to say it was wrong. At the time we thought she was such a cornball, but now of course we realize she was a wise old gal! Julia
 
I agree. The A's would certainly not be the first family to leave a deceased child's room untouched. I can't begin to imagine how painful clearing out that room would be.
I agree, when I cleared out my father's things for my mom I balled my eyes out, but it was sweet loking back on his momentos from the war,the letters from buddies he stayed in contact with all of his life, his years as a Teamster, baseball player, his awards and watch he always kept of his fathers. With a small baby it is a loss of her future and all that you will miss, that is a completely level you to the floor pain! No wonder they lived in denial holding out hope she was alive.
 
Was it ever discussed that during one of the home searches that LE found garbage bags not only on storage shelves and the shed, but also inside a cooler, a suitcase and a dog crate ? All of these were located inside the garage. I think that is a little strange.

Also, they took the Winner the Pooh bedding from Caylee's bed, but they also took a set of Winne the Pooh bedding from the guest bedroom/office that was found in a dresser drawer. Maybe it has to do with the JC Penney receipts ??

Has either one of these facts been discussed? Sorry if they have already.
 
I am stuck on the PI's and their trips down to Suburban before the remains were found. I would so like to know who knew what and when. My hunch is that Cindy and maybe Baez knew more than they have let on, but I wish it could be proven. My mind keeps going back to the sick, Caylee is alive, campaign they kept going, when it's very likely they knew better.
In the police interview with Dominick Casey the detective asks him about a statement Cindy made the night that they were serving the search warrant, the night the remains were being taken to the ME office, she said "I had someone wal that area".

Every once in awhile in an unguarded moment they let things slip out.
 
[/B]

Bold mine

Bingo!! Your children are self-sufficient & self-reliant, with the merits of their own accomplishments, for growth. IMO, parents who excuse, enable & give their children everything succeed to doing one thing.... Cripple Them!
Too much help is crippling.


"God Bless The Child that's Got His Own"
This reminds me of a hilarious old episode of the Cosby Show. Bill Cosby, the father ,is explaining by using Monopoly money, the cold hard facts of life and how expensive things are going to be for his son to maintain his lifesyle once he moves out. "Your mother and I are rich, we went to college, we worked hard to build our lives. Your mother and I are rich, you on the other hand are poor." When we were growing up it was understood that once we turned eighteen we would be moving out and getting a place of our own, however humble it may be, it would be ours. This may be a cultural thing but my husband's family have a revolving door policy, anything that goes on in one of the adults lives, a divorce a need to move, whatever, they show back up on their parents doorstep and move back in for various lengths of time. That would never even occur to me to do, so how you are raised really does dictate how you live ther rest of your life. Children Learn What They Live

If a child lives with criticism ~ He learns to condemn.
If a child lives with hostility ~ He learns to fight.
If a child lives with ridicule ~ He learns to be shy.
If a child lives with shame ~ He learns to feel guilty.

If a child lives with tolerance ~ He learns to be patient.
If a child lives with encouragement ~ He learns confidence.
If a child lives with praise ~ He learns to appreciate.
If a child lives with fairness ~ He learns justice.

If a child lives with security ~ He learns to have faith.
If a child lives with approval ~ He learns to like himself.
If a child lives with acceptance and friendship ~
He learns to find love in the world.
 
I am the most imperfect parent probably living on earth today. I lose my temper. I am continually making one or the other of my children "upset" with me. I ask too many questions. I worry too much. I am too lenient. I am impatient. I get tired and burned out sometimes. I yell more days than I don't. Sometimes the laundry piles up. Sometimes I don't cook a "regular" meal. Sometimes I don't do the dishes for more than 24 hours. Sometimes the house is messy. Sometimes the house is dirty. I let my children, especially the older ones, make, perhaps, too many of their own decisions. I do not make my children do much in the way of "chores". I am overburdened and underappreciated. Sometimes I escape into a book for hours on end ignoring everything and everyone. Sometimes, I leave for hours on end. Sometimes I get depressed. Sometimes I get anxious. Sometimes I am afraid that I am doing it all wrong and all of my children will be a mess when they go out on their own...

I would die for any one of them, but if they killed their child, I would not lie for them and they know this.

None of us is a perfect parent, even those who believe they are.:rolleyes: I don't think any of us who discuss Cindy's and George's shortcomings are saying that we are perfect. We are simply attempting to dissect what developed into a HORRIBLE situation. How did it happen? What events lead up to it? Was there anything that could have been done differently? Perhaps if we can determine what happened, what were the the ethics, the morals, the system of parenting that were in place then perhaps we can determine how to see something like this coming in our own lives or in the lives of someone close to us, or we can become better by improving on some of our own inadequacies which we share with the Anthony's. When it seems there is an "attack" on the Anthony's parenting style, it is just a desperate attempt to make sense out of a desperate situation and a hope that such a thing, if discovered and uncovered, can help us all be better than we were before we knew.

But when they tell those lies now, that is another story entirely!:crazy:
The question is are some people born evil? What is the name of that guy whose family and he were Mormon, all of his brothers were Doctors and Professors and what the media called over achievers, he was lying to everyone that he was accepted to medical school, his entire life was a lie, everyday he pretended to study his medical text books at his job on his lunch break, he even made the pretence of a move to a new state with his wife, she found out and he killed her the night before they were to move? Is there such a thing as the bad seed in a family. All of the other kids grew up with the same standards and values as he......yet they are fine, good men and he was this? Scary. You see this happen a lot in multiples, one child seems lost and the others thrive or one is gay and one is not, so obviusly they were born hard wired differently.
 
In the bible it says "Spare the rod, spoil the child", translation: You must set limits and have a child be accountable, otherwise you set a child up for failure, to have no empathy or understanding of consequences. Casey is an extreme example, but a lot of parents make this mistake and raise entitled very childish kids who have an arrested emotional development (Scott Peterson). The interesting thing is that by all accounts Cindy was very strict with Casey, so it isn't as if she purosely created a monster. Lee seems to be a well grounded and responsible young man. I always find it interesting that every family has their Cane and Able, even though the kids are raised with the exact same parents and family values, so some of it she was just born with. Lee was being as honest as he could by admitting his approach with Casey, the end justifying the means if he wanted to eventually get the truth out of her he would take any bits of it she would offer or slip up to divulge so he could keep his promise to Caylee to learn what really happened. I think they all believe it was an accident and she got scared, feaked out and hid the body, watched a movie Tony rented from Blockbuster that day about a nanny taking a child and adopted that story at short notice.

Strict with Casey?? What accounts are you speaking of because I have never heard that from anyone. No two children are ever brought up exactly the same but never is that truer than when the parent(s) are personality disordered.. The "good child" (Lee) and the "skape-goat" (Casey) are raised quite differently. A family like this.. parents like this? Have no values.

Casey and TonE rented those movies together, she didn't just show up to watch them, she was at the store, on camera picking them out too.
 
It takes a lot more than she stays out late partying while we watch her daughter and she isn't working while she lives here with us and we provide for her and her daughter, she's an ungratefull little brat to take a child away legally, I know this because I have been a foster parent home for 20 years. The state reunites mothers with their children that have been arrested for selling drugs, prostitution, neglect, drug addiction.....you name it after a little jail or rehab or parenting classes the court orders. It is a very high hurdle to take away a child from a parent legally. Casey would get the bio dad to step forward and object to G&C getting custody of his child, just to spite them. I know everyone here means well, but you have a poor understanding of what they could do legally opposed to what we all wish could have been done. I am glad she was seeking help from a counselor and calling all her friends trying to get to the bottom of what was going on. Regardless, it is easy to throw stones but they have lost their beloved grandaughter, and that is the one fact that is undisputed, she was adored by them. Furthermore, George even says in his FBI interview he knows what physical things are going to happen to Casey when she goes to prison, how they treat people who do something to a child. So they have that heavy on their heart, not only that she may have done it and where did they go wrong but imagining her being beaten and raped and likely killed one day in prison. Can't everybody realize the pain they are in? I wouldn't wish it on anyone, it nearly drove George to end his life.

But, if Casey had gone to jail for her thefts, wouldn't G & C have gotten custody of Caylee? Biodad either signed off his rights, is dead, is married or has no clue that Caylee was his daughter, right? I can't imagine the courts taking Caylee away from her home, even if biodad showed up wanting custody. Especially if KC really did sign forms giving custody to the A's if anything happened to her.

Poor Caylee.
 

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