THIS article says what I believe about the motive for the murder and who the perp was

[BBB167893]

@Ami-
I read Steve Thomas' book, too and I had a similar opinion. I did feel his frustration with the stonewalling and as I lived in Atlanta at that time, was myself getting a 'hinky' vibe about the uncooperative Ramseys.

I do think STs procedural doggedness was likely a reaction to the shocking lack of procedure beginning with the 911 call and continuing for years.

That would be my guess, FrayedKnot.

I'll tell you something else: he showed amazing restraint, far as I go. If it had been ME, I don't what I might have been tempted to do!

 

[BBB167893]

There's one other thing I'd say for now. I always get frustrated when I hear or read people asking, "why didn't JB tell anybody that she was being abused?"

Sadly, it's fairly common for victims of molestation to keep quiet. There's actually a term for this: Child Abuse Accomodation Syndrome. But even leaving that aside, there's something we should all keep in mind. It's hard enough for adult women to report being raped. I read a stat by the FBI which estimates that SIXTY percent of rapes go unreported. It's fairly easy to see why, as well. Rape is often called the only crime in which the victim can be victimized TWICE: first by the actual act, and then having to relive it multiple times by telling the police and then testifying in court, which adds the delightful wrinkle of being raked over the coals by the defense attorney. A lot of women find it too difficult to relive, so they keep it to themselves. Fear plays a factor too: a lot of them worry that the SOB who raped them will find them again before the cops find him and will take revenge for turning him in.

These are ADULT women, theoretically in full control of their mental faculties. So imagine what it must be like for a little child. They don't always know it's wrong, especially if their victimizer is a trusted adult. They are exceptionally easy to manipulate and control through fear or bribery. And most of them want only to please adults, which plays into factors one and two. JonBenet would have been an ideal victim for a molester: beautiful, charming, and trained to obey adults. Patsy and her mother Nedra had very little tolerance for disobedience, as FrayedKnot has illustrated.

 

[DeeDee249]

ami,
I do not find ST's PDI theories convincing at all. Especially when we all know there is sealed evidence, none of which he ever mentions, never mind explaining what a PDI has to do with a Barbie Doll, Bloodstained Nightgown, and Size-12's v leaving a wet size-6 pair in place?

Another possibility is that there was both prior molestation, followed by a small time gap, then JonBenet wets the bed, or has hygene issues due to being abused? Enter Patsy and ST's PDI evolves ...

There is evidence supporting chronic abuse, obviously its not conclusive, but given the context e.g. acute sexual assault, sexual contact cited by the Coroner. Then the probability there was no chronic abuse seems, to me, to be well less than 0.5!


.

I have never seen anywhere that a WET size 6 panty was left in place? Where have you seen this? There were no wet panties noted at all. There was a pair of urine stained size 12 panties on the body along with the also-urine-stained longjohns. These were noted as such by the coroner when he first examined her at around 8 pm the 26th. Detective Arndt did not say they were wet when she first saw her at 1 pm that day, so it can be presumed they had dried by the time the body was found. This would be likely if she had been dead 12 hours already.

 

[DeeDee249]

Bubble baths, infections and irritation do not erode a hymen away. Repeated pressure against the hymen erodes the hymen.

 

[UKGuy]

I have never seen anywhere that a WET size 6 panty was left in place? Where have you seen this? There were no wet panties noted at all. There was a pair of urine stained size 12 panties on the body along with the also-urine-stained longjohns. These were noted as such by the coroner when he first examined her at around 8 pm the 26th. Detective Arndt did not say they were wet when she first saw her at 1 pm that day, so it can be presumed they had dried by the time the body was found. This would be likely if she had been dead 12 hours already.

DeeDee249,
This was lazy sentence construction on my part. Did you note the v in clause: and Size-12's v leaving a wet size-6 pair in place?. It was intended as a adjuct to ST's PDI bedwetting theory. e.g. leaving a wet pair of size-6 underwear would be consistent with almost any homicide scenario. So why bother with the size-12's?


.

 

[Tadpole12]

Colors of the Church Year and Seasonal Dates:
http://www.crivoice.org/colorsof.html

Gold and white are the colors of Christmas and Ascension.

 

[Vhead]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...eys-killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective/

Jeff Shapiro used to be roundly criticized because he was a tabloid writer who did insinuate himself into the Ramsey's lives.
Now, I think 15 years has mellowed his opinion and methods as much as it has mine.

How I wish I had had his " spot on" religious understanding of why Patsy attached a warped and pseudo- religious angle to the murder when I was in Europe discussing the case with Europe's version of The Vidocq Society.
It is NOT easy to explain Southern fundamental Christianity to people who don't even grasp the idea of what it is, much less how it can be perverted.
I lived it, I know. I understand.

Jeff Shapiro has an excellent article here. The only thing I can see wrong is that he spelled " cords" wrong. Bind the sacrifice with cords, not chords. No one was singing on that most unholy night.

For those who have asked why I suspect Patsy as being the one and only perp. THIS is why. What Jeff Shapiro has written. All of what he has written, plus more he left out regarding the crime scene staging, both ante-mortem and postmortem.

His sources are well- thought out. Steve Thomas, and a guy who studied Susam Smith's " religious" carrying on when she drowned her two boys. It's a Southern thing. I have seen it too many times in my career. People in the South can assign the most eye rolling, unjustified religious meanings to EVERYTHING.
I can say this because I am a GRITS. ( Girl Raised In The South).

Read this and don't ask me again " Why Patsy and not John?"
John was from Michigan. A Yankee. NOT raised like Patsy was by Nedra. ( Nedra is another huge plot point in the murder as far as the Ransom Letter goes, but that's another story).

Respectfully,
Maria

What an excellent article. Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone

 

[DeDee]

Sir,
I have read that autopsy report until I can quote it. 15 years' worth of reading it.
The chronic epithelial cell erosion on the posterior vaginal wall is from the 10 o'clock position to roughly the 2 o'clock position only,
Meaning that something was inserted into JonBenet's vagina multiple times over a period of time in the exact same way and at the exact or almost exact same angle.

Ditto the hymenal tissue being partially absent. Manual insertion of an object could cause both.
IOW, a female could have easily have been the abuser. Not a male.

IMO, and in the opinion of doctors who used to post on the case, this points to the insertion of an object other than a penis. I do not care to speculate on what was inserted, but would like to refer you to a recent case: the Sandra Cantu case in which the sexual abuser/ murderer was a woman and the item inserted into the child is believed to be the end of a kitchen rolling pin. Why? Because it was near at hand. Child's DNA found on the object.

Then there is that one description that her v opening looked twice the normal size for a 6yowf. That is not a coincidence.


On the 15 year anniversary, December 26, 2011, Jeff S Shaprio wrote:

"Several years after lead detective Steve Thomas publicly professed his unequivocal belief that Patsy was the killer, another investigator, James Kolar examined the case.

Kolar, concluded that Patsy was the killer because many of the religious statements she made to the media after JonBenet’s death mirrored the types of deeply religious statements Susan Smith made after she killed her own children.

After Kolar made his presentation to Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy, she did the unthinkable by releasing a written statement clearing the Ramseys. Lacy however, was not the original district attorney who investigated the crime, Alex Hunter was, and Hunter had always told me in private that he believed Patsy was the only logical suspect – as did almost all my sources in the Boulder Police Department, Colorado Bureau of Investigations and F.B.I."

~ http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...eys-killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective/ ~


Fox's opinion page

 

[MeanDonnaJean]

One question I have though is, if Patsy had this weird, twisted, religious "affliction," I wonder why she would not confess on her death bed.

Would YOU confess to a crime as horrific as this on YOUR deathbed? The hell if *I* would. I'd take it with me to the grave, just for safekeeping reasons alone.

Besides that, and just for argument sake, lets say she DID confess on her deathbed but then had a last minute miraculous health turnaround on that same deathbed. What THEN? Ya already stuck yer foot in yer mouth...!

No no no, I say NEVER confess. Take it to the grave. Ya lived with it for so long, now die with it for eternity. That way you & you alone must deal with the consequences in the afterlife. NO plea deals. NO insanity defenses. NO pardons. NO mercy!

 

[THE BUNK]

One question I have though is, if Patsy had this weird, twisted, religious "affliction," I wonder why she would not confess on her death bed.

How do we know she didn't confess to a priest. Maybe she did. Priests maintain confidentiality don't they? Nobody would ever know except the priest.

Confessing to the police is another matter that would require the police to ask her questions and accept her confession. BTW, Confessing to the police would not protect John or Burke from prosecution. The police would use the confession to override the DNA evidence and proceed with interrogating John and Burke.

 

[SeekingJana]

I'd like to address a few things posted here while I wasn't posting much due to a critical illness with one of my family members, who defied all odds and is well again.

1) Posters have asked how or why John Ramsey would stand by and say nothing if he knew Patsy had hurt JonBenet, and especially if he knew she killed their daughter.
I gave my opinion of this early on- that he didn't KNOW what happened to JonBenet until the police had been in the house for some time on the 26th.

I have another opinion about his reasoning later on, maybe after lawyering up, as most people will do if a murder occurs within their jurisdiction and if they have the money for legal advisors post- crime. It has to do with Patsy's ovarian cancer. Patsy claimed that she was " cured of cancer". Her medical team never said she was cured- she did. She hinted that they said she was " cancer free" but at that time, women didn't survive ovarian cancer in the stage to which hers had progressed. Most women still don't. Ovarian cancer is a killer cancer, just as insidious and stealthy as pancreatic cancer until it is advanced and causes generalized abdominal pain, bloating and signs of severe illness.

I think John knew that Patsy's time on earth was limited in the very best of circumstances- not that he was probably hoping for a best- case outcome.. He most likely knew that death would take her at a young age-- only she lived longer than most women with ovarian cancer lived at that time. He gambled, IOW, on her not being around. If you strongly suspect that a dying person in your family, in your household, your partner for life under your marriage vows has just done something horrific, I think the impending natural death of the perp. is maybe enough to know. Plus, John had the jeopardy that if he said Patsy did it Patsy could say John did it and give statements to LE under oath implicating John alone. I do think she blackmailed him in this way into staying quiet, hiring Lin Wood for all the nuisance suits they filed, etc.

2) Regarding Patsy's mindset after JonBenet was murdered: She gave an interview, I'm thinking on 20/20, in which she says 2 telling things. They are more about HER projection of her life onto JonBenet, even after her child was buried.
She said of JonBenet- " She will never know what it's like to have cancer or to turn 40".

OMG, people, turning 40? Patsy had just " celebrated" her 40th birthday prior to JBR's murder at a lavish party. It was not exactly a happy time for her, but it should have been, as a person living with cancer. She had stated that she felt old and unattractive. Again, her own delusional thinking for the most part.
Regarding the blanket statement about a deceased child not knowing what it's like to have cancer- specifically, Patsy's ovarian cancer: We know now that there is a strong hereditary link between maternal relatives with the BRCA-1 and BRCA-2 genes, but this was NOT known when Patsy said what she said about JonBenet not having to know what having cancer was like. This was all projection of Patsy's worries and concerns for her own self and her own life back onto her recently deceased little girl. Her delusions didn't stop with the child's death.

A rational, caring mother would more than likely have broken down in tears and said " She will never date, fall in love, go to college, become a vet or Pediatrician ( two things JonBenet had expressed interest in becoming one day), or know the joy of being a wife and mother."
Patsy, who claimed to believe that she was cured by God of cancer, never said " I won't get to watch my little girl grow up now".

Regarding the issue of genital hygiene ( more than potty training, it was the actual soiling of the child while she was in public places such as at the pageants-- she wore Pull Ups at age 6). I think there is a possibility that Patsy equated her ovarian cancer to " uncleanliness" in her own life. I believe she and her sisters were sexually abused as children. Nedra had a very callous attitude about sexual abuse, saying " JonBenet may have been " a little bit" molested.
It makes sense to me that if Patsy deemed herself " unclean" or " impure" from a young age, then developed cancer of the reproductive system later in life, she might well project the same trait of uncleanliness onto her little girl, hence the statement about her now not ever getting cancer. I don't know exactly what Patsy did to JonBenet while she was alive, but I don't think all the trips to Dr. Beuf were the only " checks" for vaginal infections ( often interpreted as a form of dirtiness). I think Patsy did her OWN checks of JonBenet's genitalia, possibly including some form of internal cleansing; a form of vaginal irrigation.
JonBenet's autopsy showed that along with blood in the vaginal vault, there was a watery substance which wasn't a body fluid from JonBenet or anyone else, male or female. I think it may have been the retained residual fluid from the last time Patsy " cleansed" JonBenet's vaginal area, shortly before she was murdered, but before, because a dead body does not bleed.

3) The last sick thing I remember Patsy doing which shows her inability to set ego boundaries between her life and history and JonBenet's short life:
On the first CNN interview after JBR's murder, Patsy was wearing a navy suit trimmed in white. Appropriate, prim and proper for her age.
If you have the hardcover version of the Ramsey book " Death Of Innocence", look at what JonBenet was photographed wearing. A navy jacket trimmed in white- just like Mommy's... not exactly a five or six year old child's attire.
Who do you think selected the suit to portray her daughter as a " mini- me"? It is Patsy's trademark copycat obsession.... this time, the photo was selected for the book jacket after her little girl was dead. That's twisted.

It's ALL twisted. The only way to make sense of a lot of this is to understand how utterly narcissistic Patsy was, and how JonBenet was her last hope for fame in her life, and also her source of great fear and maybe even loathing as the little girl started to grow up and develop her own personality traits and preferences which clashed with Patsy's.

 

[gramcracker]

:goodpost: :rockon:

 

[THE BUNK]

1) Posters have asked how or why John Ramsey would stand by and say nothing if he knew Patsy had hurt JonBenet, and especially if he knew she killed their daughter.

I would also like to add that John may have actually loved his wife.

Love makes you do strange things.

 

[chlban]

How do we know she didn't confess to a priest. Maybe she did. Priests maintain confidentiality don't they? Nobody would ever know except the priest.

Confessing to the police is another matter that would require the police to ask her questions and accept her confession. BTW, Confessing to the police would not protect John or Burke from prosecution. The police would use the confession to override the DNA evidence and proceed with interrogating John and Burke.

I have always found this, "why didn't she confess on her deathbed" to be one of the weaker, in a sea of weak, excuses from the IDI group.

We have no idea if she confessed or not. None of us were there. First of all, she was probably not conscious at the very end. I have watched both my Father and my MIL pass to cancer and they were both unconscious for a couple of days before passing.

However, even assuming she was different, she could have confessed to a minister, who would be bound to silence, and toher parents, sisters, whatever. You think they are going to tell the world and prove half of it right?

I don't think she needed to confess to John, that happned a long time ago.

 

[SeekingJana]

Patsy would not have wanted to go down in the history books as the self-admitted killer of her beautiful, smart little girl. Not even posthumously. There is doubt among many people about who killed JonBenet, and there may always be.

I believe Patsy conveyed some of her guilt to Rev. Holverstock in Boulder shortly after the murder. I believe most of this was non-verbal... vibes picked up by the minister.This is covered very well in PMPT, so if someone wants to dig out their copy, you can read the nuances that Schiller wanted to convey regarding Patsy and the Reverend, the family's pastor in Boulder.

If Patsy acknowledged her guilt at all, I think she probably did what she was taught to do as a child regarding sin: Pray and ask God for forgiveness. Protestant religions do not teach public confession of sins nor confession to a spiritual advisor such as a pastor. Communication is from the person to God, with no intercession needed for any sin.
Was she sincere and did she mean it if she prayed for forgiveness? Only God knows.
Patsy appeared sedated by drugs a great deal of the time in the TV interviews for years. Not exactly congruent with a mind and soul at peace.

 

[2 percent]

Patsy would not have wanted to go down in the history books as the self-admitted killer of her beautiful, smart little girl. Not even posthumously. There is doubt among many people about who killed JonBenet, and there may always be.

I believe Patsy conveyed some of her guilt to Rev. Halverstock in Boulder shortly after the murder. I believe most of this was non-verbal... vibes picked up by the minister.This is covered very well in PMPT, so if someone wants to dig out their copy, you can read the nuances that Schiller wanted to convey regarding Patsy and the Reverend, the family's pastor in Boulder.

If Patsy acknowledged her guilt at all, I think she probably did what she was taught to do as a child regarding sin: Pray and ask God for forgiveness. Protestant religions do not teach public confession of sins nor confession to a spiritual advisor such as a pastor. Communication is from the person to God, with no intercession needed for any sin.
Was she sincere and did she mean it if she prayed for forgiveness? Only God knows.
Patsy appeared sedated by drugs a great deal of the time in the TV interviews for years. Not exactly congruent with a mind and soul at peace.

Even in the protestant religions, though, once you admit you murdered your daughter and ask for forgiveness you can't go around saying you aren't a murderer. You have to ask forgiveness and not lie about it after or you have to ask forgiveness all over again...plus forgiveness for the lie.

It'll be interesting to note when she stopped saying she didn't kill her daughter. If ever.

 

[gramcracker]

^ IMO every day of the rest of her life she pushed those thoughts away until "tomorrow" and the meds helped to make that easier to do

 

[Tawny]

Honestly, even if she were the type to confess on her deathbed, she may have been arrogant or in denial enough to not believe she was on her deathbed. She may have been convinced she would make it past this bout of cancer and be "cured" again. I've known of many terminal cancer patients who simply chose not to accept their fate.

 

[DeeDee249]

Patsy wasn't Catholic, so she wouldn't have confessed to a "priest" in the sense that Catholics go to confession. I believe they were Episcopalian. The protestant denominations do not have confession in the way that Catholics do, but of course, their ministers do attend the sick and a "deathbed confession" is certainly a possibility.

 

[gramcracker]

LEOs who were assigned to the Fernie house as "eyes and ears" that first night noted that PR and her sisters were reading bible verses and praying pentecostal style (no offense intended). the bible verses were those regarding forgiveness but I wonder ... why not verses regarding loss, grief and lamentation? (not implying that PR told her sisters what really happened.) this was within the first 12 hours after the discovery. I think PR was directing the flow of forgiveness toward the killer in the guise of letting go of negative emotion, because a lack of forgiveness can be a self-injuring poison. I'm all for letting go of that somewhere along the line but not that soon! while the others were concentrating their energy on an "unknown" killer, PR knew that the forgiveness sought was for her

also, JAR, when asked, said the killer should be forgiven (and that was relatively early IIRC.) they are just the forgiving-est bunch I've ever seen