Thread No. 23 - General Discussion

[NCBanker]

I think what people are trying to ask you, NCBanker, is why a company would pay for a (ostensibly, since it didn't turn out that way) 10 hour trip plus an overnight stay for a possible contract with a small hospital regardless of whether the hospital had the funding to purchase what JY sells, when there was probably someone closer to that hospital than JY was? Wasn't another one of JY's co-workers (possible sales manager?) at this so called meeting? If so, why wouldn't they just handle the call? I'm sure they (ChartOne) had more than this hospital in their territory, so if this call were a part of a training exercise for JY, couldn't they have picked a spot closer? If the total trip was 600 miles for instance, and he got 20 MPH/gallon, that's thirty gallons. I don't recall what gas prices were then but even if they were only 2 to 2.50 gallon/ that's 60 to 75 dollars for gas alone and what, one hundred for the hotel? Even if this hospital bought in, it wouldn't be a lucrative contract in any event would it? We'll never know know whether JY would have submitted those bills to ChartOne since he was fired soon thereafter and, in any event given the media scrutiny at the time, I doubt JY would have dared submit it. Not enough money given the risk he would have been taking, especially since his plan was to net that 1 million.

Great questions, liveoutloud. I don't know if there was someone closer to that hospital/facility that could have done the appointment. He could have been covering for the local rep who couldn't make the appointment - that's certainly plausible. I'm trying to understand why folks think it's odd that expenses for such a trip wouldn't be reimbursed? He was traveling on business, which qualified him at the time for .48/.49 cents a mile (unless he had a company issued gas card, which I doubt), and given the distance, he was (in my opinion) more than justified in staying overnight.

Now where the sleuthing comes in is to answer why he specifically chose the area where he stayed? I've never personally stopped halfway, but I have associates who have done that exact thing.

As for the $$ value of the business with that facility, who knows? It's not relevant. He had a territory with a goal. That means hitting every potential client you can hit. Because this facility was part of a larger facility, it's possible there were representatives present from the larger location OR that the larger facility had already implemented the solution and the satellite facility was following suit OR that Jason hoped to get into the larger facility by starting with the smaller one first (though that's not my first guess and not really strategic in nature).

As far as it being a lucrative contract, on the whole, most vendors in healthcare make money, regardless of the size of the account or contract - it's all about the margin. Every new account, regardless of size, adds to the bottom line, provides opportunity for future revenue, and lends credibility to your product/solution as a referenced account.

If Jason was/is smart, he submitted those expenses for reimbursement, even if he was let go. Hope I answered your questions.

 

[Just the Fax]

I appreciate your comments, and I apologize if I appear to be heavy handed - not my intention. No one has ever compared the character or actions of our local DA to that of Nifong. The point that I have so desperately been attempting to make is that a precedent was set in the exonerated blue bloods from Duke suing the DA. Granted, they had plenty of reasons, but there has also been plenty of past and current litigation arising from little more than wrongful prosecution. Given the current circumstances, i.e. people associated with this case threatening to sue coupled with the ongoing Lacrosse mess, the DA made certain statements, which I chose to share. What's not cool is sharing a specific statement someone made and then having someone else question and dispute what was said or intended in the statement. There's really no interpretation of it other than what was specifically said.

Now if I express an OPINION on something, PLEASE, feel free to disagree/agree/ignore. However, no one likes to make a factual statement and have it challenged. Sorry if I don't just roll over and take it.

NCBanker, I never for a minute questioned you were told this by someone and your post was not factual. My point in challenging you was you brought this quote to the board as hot inside info from a someone very credible and possibly close to the investigation. Like liveoutloud pointed out, this statement by your source is so preposterous , it naturally would be challenged by readers here. When you bring a totally anonymous source and refuse to give even a hint as to their credibility (attorney, *advertiser censored* DA, retired Judge, cop, mailman or Janitor), expect to have the info debated and possibly questioned.

 

[NCBanker]

NCBanker, I never for a minute questioned you were told this by someone and your post was not factual. My point in challenging you was you brought this quote to the board as hot inside info from a someone very credible and possibly close to the investigation. Like liveoutloud pointed out, this statement by your source is so preposterous , it naturally would be challenged by readers here. When you bring a totally anonymous source and refuse to give even a hint as to their credibility (attorney, *advertiser censored* DA, retired Judge, cop, mailman or Janitor), expect to have the info debated and possibly questioned.

That's a fair statement, and I appreciate your clarification. My source isn't under the protection of being one of many, i.e. cop, mailman, janitor, etc. If I were to divulge his/her connection, it would immediately put him/her in the spotlight, which we certainly don't want (after all, we know LE reads this site from time to time, and we want to be able to continue to get additional information). Trust me that he/she is connected directly to the DA's office and is in the very heart of the investigation. If you need further information, perhaps we can chat offline.

 

[nanandjim]

...NanandJim - I admire your husband's zeal for expense containment, but in reality, it's quite uncommon.

Hey NCBanker - To put things into perspective, my husband works for a company with $23 billion dollars in sales. I also was in Corporate America where we were constantly expected to trim expenses. So, perhaps, your field is unusual whereas, for others, watching expenses is the norm.

 

[nanandjim]

I appreciate your comments, and I apologize if I appear to be heavy handed - not my intention. No one has ever compared the character or actions of our local DA to that of Nifong. The point that I have so desperately been attempting to make is that a precedent was set in the exonerated blue bloods from Duke suing the DA. Granted, they had plenty of reasons, but there has also been plenty of past and current litigation arising from little more than wrongful prosecution. Given the current circumstances, i.e. people associated with this case threatening to sue coupled with the ongoing Lacrosse mess, the DA made certain statements, which I chose to share. What's not cool is sharing a specific statement someone made and then having someone else question and dispute what was said or intended in the statement. There's really no interpretation of it other than what was specifically said.

Now if I express an OPINION on something, PLEASE, feel free to disagree/agree/ignore. However, no one likes to make a factual statement and have it challenged. Sorry if I don't just roll over and take it.

I want to chime in and say that if the DA is afraid to prosecute Jason because he fears some kind of lawsuit, then he is a crappy DA. Arresting and prosecuting Jason would obviously be done in good faith as he is the most likely suspect with a motive. IMO, he can sue all day long; and it will go nowhere. In fact, if I were the DA, I would welcome a lawsuit. Then, they can take a deposition from Jason and his clan and use it for additional charges. To cite Nifong and the Duke lacrosse team is ridiculous. That case is so completely different. Nifong refused to talk to the Duke lacrosse team, ignored evidence, manufactured evidence, etc., etc. This is not what would be happening in this case.

 

[NCBanker]

Hey NCBanker - To put things into perspective, my husband works for a company with $23 billion dollars in sales. I also was in Corporate America where we were constantly expected to trim expenses. So, perhaps, your field is unusual whereas, for others, watching expenses is the norm.

Sounds like we're all in good company. I speak for banking and healthcare, which are the two industries I've served/am serving. From the banking side, I've done deep level assessment/consulting with a host of businesses varying from Fortune 100 companies down to small, locally owned businesses. I currently work in healthcare, and again, deal with a host of healthcare vendors and healthcare institutions of all sizes from small rural facilities to large metro systems. My experience/commentary comes from those areas. Basically, what I'm saying is, I'm not just speaking for one or two companies.

 

[nanandjim]

... I'm not just speaking for one or two companies.

I spoke to my husband, just for grins. He says that employees who have such reckless abandon with company money do not last long. This is the last comment that I will make on the subject as I can see that we do not agree on this issue. Common sense prevails...as far as I'm concerned.

 

[NCBanker]

I want to chime in and say that if the DA is afraid to prosecute Jason because he fears some kind of lawsuit, then he is a crappy DA. Arresting and prosecuting Jason would obviously be done in good faith as he is the most likely suspect with a motive. IMO, he can sue all day long; and it will go nowhere. In fact, if I were the DA, I would welcome a lawsuit. Then, they can take a deposition from Jason and his clan and use it for additional charges. To cite Nifong and the Duke lacrosse team is ridiculous. That case is so completely different. Nifong refused to talk to the Duke lacrosse team, ignored evidence, manufactured evidence, etc., etc. This is not what would be happening in this case.

It is indeed sad/silly that the DA is slow to act and being overly cautious. I would not, however, use the word, "crappy," in describing him. It's clear that the circumstances are completely different when comparing the two cases. As previously stated, no one is disputing that.

Clearly, when one brings up the phrase, "Lacrosse case," people immediately are drawn to the line of thinking you presented, which is to say, the complete disregard for due process coupled with prosecutorial misconduct. Because of that and the lingering air from that case, DA's (not just ours) are being particularly careful.

 

[j2mirish]

My husband's company would have an issue with any of its sales reps submitting a hotel expense for a trip that was five hours from their home base. Heck, my husband is a Vice President and he drives six or more hours to meetings. He has never stopped 90 minutes up the road to rest up before continuing on. It's ridiculous to think that Jason would do something like that unless he were establishing an alibi.

I spoke to my husband, just for grins. He says that employees who have such reckless abandon with company money do not last long. This is the last comment that I will make on the subject as I can see that we do not agree on this issue. Common sense prevails...as far as I'm concerned.

no offense Nan- but I would not be impressed with a company that makes an employee drive 6 or more hours to a meeting, attend, then drive that 6 or more hours back home either- personally after a six or more hour drive- I would be none too happy to have to then attend and participate in a meeting
now- I agree 90 minutes away is a whole other story-

 

[NCBanker]

He says that employees who have such reckless abandon with company money do not last long.

I certainly don't disagree with you on the "reckless abandon" comment, but that's also a subjective term. I'm as conservative as they come; in fact I make most tight-wads look like spend-thrifts. I see nothing wrong, however, in the expenses Jason incurred in his travel on the night of the murder. Whether he stopped 90 minutes into the trip or drove the entire distance that night, either way, he was going to stay overnight. The reasons for where he stopped and why, while suspicious, are unknown.

 

[j2mirish]

I certainly don't disagree with you on the "reckless abandon" comment, but that's also a subjective term. I'm as conservative as they come; in fact I make most tight-wads look like spend-thrifts. I see nothing wrong, however, in the expenses Jason incurred in his travel on the night of the murder.

i would agree- if he stayed where the meeting was to take place--- not 90 minutes from his home

 

[NCBanker]

i would agree- if he stayed where the meeting was to take place--- not 90 minutes from his home

I'm not sure where the 90 minute nonsense got started, but he didn't stop 90 minutes from home. He traveled at least 175 miles, which equates to about 3 hours to Hillsville, VA. The next day, he drove another 145 miles to Clintwood. It's almost six hours one way. To stop a little over halfway at 11:00pm isn't odd. I wouldn't want to get up and drive the entire distance that morning - I'd be worthless.

Hillsville, by the way, is on the direct route to Clintwood.

 

[curious1]

The Nifong situation was unprecedented. He was proven to be a deceitful, rogue DA with a sinister agenda. He obtained a GJ indictment with lies. There was zero evidence these boys were guilty of a crime.

Well, I think we can all agree that is not the case with Mr. Young.
We know for a fact there are piles of CE linking him to the murder.
If a GJ decides that is enough to indict, then they proceed...period

Without naming specific names, how is your 'inside source' that stated this connected to the case ?

I live in NC and have several relatives in LE and others who are attorneys. Let me assure you the Nifong case HAS changed the way they do business. Even if they are not concerend with a lawsuit it's all about makeing sure you have an airtight case. Even if a defendent is guilty if you do sloppy work and you don't convice the jury you could have a lawsuit. To think it could not happen is naive.

 

[Just the Fax]

I'm not sure where the 90 minute nonsense got started, but he didn't stop 90 minutes from home. He traveled at least 175 miles, which equates to about 3 hours to Hillsville, VA. The next day, he drove another 145 miles to Clintwood. It's almost six hours one way. To stop a little over halfway at 11:00pm isn't odd. I wouldn't want to get up and drive the entire distance that morning - I'd be worthless.

Hillsville, by the way, is on the direct route to Clintwood.

Actually, the drive is 2 hours / 25 minutes from Birchleaf to The Hampton Inn in Hillsville (All interstate). It is another 2 hours / 20 min from the hotel to Clintwood Va........4 hours /45 min total

I know this is a fact, cause I drove it myself.

 

[NCBanker]

Actually, the drive is 2 hours / 25 minutes from Birchleaf to The Hampton Inn in Hillsville (All interstate). It is another 2 hours / 20 min from the hotel to Clintwood Va........4 hours /45 min total

I know this is a fact, cause I drove it myself.

Good to know - I haven't really had the time to drive it, I simply went by the data on Mapquest and Yahoo Maps, which both put the trip time between 2 hours 50 minutes and 2 hours 55 minutes to Hillsville. Take into account stopping for fast food/gas - ergo, 3 hours. Total trip is 315 miles or so, give or take 5-10 miles. Total estimated driving time is between 5 hours 25 minutes and 5 hours 47 minutes. Again take into account stopping for gas/fast food would certainly add up the driving time.

REGARDLESS, it's certainly longer than 90 minutes and warrants stopping half way for the night.

 

[NCBanker]

I live in NC and have several relatives in LE and others who are attorneys. Let me assure you the Nifong case HAS changed the way they do business. Even if they are not concerend with a lawsuit it's all about makeing sure you have an airtight case. Even if a defendent is guilty if you do sloppy work and you don't convice the jury you could have a lawsuit. To think it could not happen is naive.

Thanks for co-signing with me Curious1. Much appreciated.

It's the same in business. There are PLENTY of great companies striving to do business ethically and honestly, but because of the infamous ENRON/WORLDCOM/TYCO debacles coupled with the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, many publicly traded companies today are completely overzealous in their overly cautious accounting practices. I'm battling it right now in my own company in order to recognize certain revenues - drives me nuts!

 

[concernedperson]

The expenditures are not relevant only as far as importance in this case. No one has stated what the situation was exactly. Frankly, I don't think Jason has a leg to stand on.

 

[raisincharlie]

Actually, the drive is 2 hours / 25 minutes from Birchleaf to The Hampton Inn in Hillsville (All interstate). It is another 2 hours / 20 min from the hotel to Clintwood Va........4 hours /45 min total

I know this is a fact, cause I drove it myself.

Curious - did you drive the legal speed limit or did you drive it like JY would - you know that guy that has tickets for doing 80 in a 55 mph zone ? Seems for the most part the tickets he gets average a good 20 mph over the limit.

 

[jilly]

Curious - did you drive the legal speed limit or did you drive it like JY would - you know that guy that has tickets for doing 80 in a 55 mph zone ? Seems for the most part the tickets he gets average a good 20 mph over the limit.

Hola RC!:crazy:

Good point. I think I deciphered elsewhere he recently got another speeding ticket? Could be wrong.
In any case, his driving record will be presented in Court.

If JtF made it in 2hrs 25 min at the speed limit, jy probably did it in 2 hrs. Also he was driving at nite - less traffic and much less chance of getting a speeding ticket.

 

[hollyjokers]

As anxious as I am to see Jason doing the perp walk (preferably complete with ramming his head into the van roof ala Scott Peterson), I don't see any point in questioning why the DA's office has not brought charges yet. They aren't on our time schedule afterall. Making sure the case is airtight is just good sense, as is trying to avoid any possible comparison to the Lacrosse case. The media never forgets these things, and any mistake by the pros' office would bring all of that up again. I feel bad that Michelle's family is missing out on this time with Cassidy, but there's really nothing that can be done at this point. He's with his mama, they know where to find him when the time is right.