Three critical questions

[UKGuy]

Chrishope, I posted this on the FFJ thread to explain my thinking. Hope this helps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you all so much for your responses. See, this helps me think, I can't tell you how much. Each of you has given me ideas, and thinking about what you're pondering, little pieces of this puzzle start moving around and some fall into place, as well.

What prompted me to start this thread is I had an epiphany of sorts...or another stupid idea, who knows? :fingers:

I'm looking at the three questions to answer one final, and critical one:

Could Burke have placed JB by the paint tray, where she was strangled, and where she died?

My epiphany is this: there is only one way Burke could have strangled JB by the paint tray, and that's if he felled her right there, in that spot.

I say that because I don't believe Burke could have carried JB. At 45 lbs. at autopsy, Burke would have had some trouble even moving her from, say, the train room to the paint tray.

There were no bruises or scrapes on her body, as far as I've ever seen or as described in the autopsy, which indicated she'd been dragged. So I'm thinking that Burke, at his own height and weight, wouldn't have been able to pick her up and carry her.

I know this isn't anything hard to figure out, but stay with me.

I'll respond to your posts and ideas separately, but in hopes of keeping this idea from getting too complex off the bat, here's the gist of my thoughts:

The only way I can figure out Burke delivering the head blow and also strangling his sister by the paint tray is if he felled her there. Then she would have been in position for what happened at the paint tray, so he didn't need to carry her.

This might fit the evidence. I'm thinking this through.

One problem I have with this is the 90 minutes between the head blow and the strangulation.

Would Burke, not yet 10 years old, wait around the house/basement for 90 minutes while his sister was dying, and decide then to strangle her?

Does that make sense?

So I'm asking Question 1: where did the head blow occur? If it occurred in the basement, outside the cellar room, then Burke could have also been the person to strangle her, as far as physical capability.

But if it happened somewhere else, like in/near her bedroom, where her blood was found on her pillow, where there is a lot of chaos, open drawers, diapers hanging out of a cabinet, a kitchen knife on a laundry machine, then I think we can all agree Burke did not carry JB down two flights of stairs and strangle her 90 minutes later.

That would put Patsy and/or John in the act of strangulation, as the only other two people in the home and with their fibers on the body and murder weapon.

If the head blow happened in the kitchen or another area, same thing. Burke could not carry his sister, I don't believe. So back to Patsy and/or John being the actual killers.

So question 2: what happened in that 90 minutes? I'm trying to picture Burke hanging out, maybe panicking, maybe not, somewhere in the house, his sister dying by the paint tray where he struck her, then an hour and a half later deciding to go strangle her with a ligature.

It was very late for children. They'd been up since before dawn, as well, excitedly opening their presents, playing with their Santa toys, running around with friends in the hood and such, visiting at the Whites, more children, more toys...then they came home and, according to Patsy and John Burke wasn't put to bed until 10 pm.

But the pineapple is that big bugaboo, isn't it? It puts the lie to JB being asleep as she was put to bed, Patsy changing out her jeans for longjohns, etc.

So there's only two ways this could have happened, if there is any truth to what John and Patsy said:

1. JB woke up and Burke got back up, after the parents went to bed.

OR Patsy and John lied and...

2. JB was awake or woke up when they got back home and whatever happened, it went down before anyone went to bed.

If either of the above scenarios happened, and if Burke were the one who struck that blow, unless it happened in the basement, by the paint tray, and Burke roamed around or did whatever until 90 minutes later, when he strangled JB to death there, there is only one other conclusion I can reach:

John and/or Patsy carried JB to the paint tray and strangled her there.

So this leads to Question 3: How did JB get to the paint tray?

This is important because as I'm looking at this, with the timing between the head blow and strangulation established by Dr. Meyer as 90 minutes, and because I am speculating that a child the size of Burke could not carry the dead weight of a limp, 45 lb. body and there were no drag marks on the body, we might reasonably conclude the head blow occurred by the paint tray if Burke was responsible for that and then he would have been in a position to complete the act of strangulation...or...

Patsy and/or John are culpable for the strangulation. Any other scenario except Burke committing the head blow and strangulation by the paint tray implicates John and/or Patsy, whose fibers are all over the body and crime scene, with Patsy's actually tied INTO the ligature, as well.

I'm struggling with how to express my thoughts on this, so I hope this makes sense. If it does, we're down to one scenario where Burke could have committed both violent attacks on his sister. If it doesn't, then look into this smilie :hypno: and repeat 100 times: I never read it...I never read it....

Thoughts?

KoldKase,

So this leads to Question 3: How did JB get to the paint tray?

This is important because as I'm looking at this, with the timing between the head blow and strangulation established by Dr. Meyer as 90 minutes, and because I am speculating that a child the size of Burke could not carry the dead weight of a limp, 45 lb. body and there were no drag marks on the body, we might reasonably conclude the head blow occurred by the paint tray if Burke was responsible for that and then he would have been in a position to complete the act of strangulation...or...

I doubt that JonBenet was whacked on the head next to the paint-tote. If so, then there should have been more forensic evidence available, e.g. bloodstains, as there was on the pillow upstairs.

None of the R's needed a paintbrush from the paint-tote to kill JonBenet. There is no overriding reason for JonBenet to be lying next to the paint-tote?

From memory whomever took the paintbrush from the paint-tote broke it against the wall, next to the wine-cellar door, leaving marks on the wall, and shards on the floor.

Although JonBenet was likely killed in the basement. I tend to view the basement/wine-cellar as a staged crime-scene, its ultimate purpose was to mask what really took place, so stuff associated with JonBenet was placed into the wine-cellar.

If its BDI then for me its a sexual assault gone very wrong, with a head bash delivered in a temper, followed by the realization JonBenet was probably not going to wake up. The rest is staging by stepwise refinement.

Another scenario is one of the R's molests JonBenet. This over, she turns to another R for comfort, say Burke, who loses his temper and whacks her on the head?

What I have trouble with is any one particular R whacking JonBenet on the head with such force, this does not make much sense to me. JonBenet is a 6-year old child, minimal force would be required to restrain her, particularly if it was a relative.

Also if someone is sexually assaulting JonBenet, why do they have the blunt force instrument to hand, was JonBenet under duress? Surely if you want to silence a 6-year old child, a hand over the mouth is sufficient?

Another issue is one of motive, if its BDI, what are Burke and JonBenet doing in the basement so late at night? Did Burke entice JonBenet down to the basement, to open up the remaining gifts, was the Barbie Doll a gift due to be given to JonBenet?

Physically I think a BDI happening, in its entirety, down in the basement is possible. If so, then Burke would be more culpable than if it, took place upstairs in one of the bedrooms.

Did Burke tighten the ligature around JonBenet's neck, with another parent adding the paintbrush handle in an attempt to deflect attention? If so then Burke would much more calculating than we give him credit for?



.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Let me make clear that Kolar never says where he thinks the head injury happened or who did what. These are my thoughts and questions, not his.
skip

KK, you're correct, Kolar never says where he thinks the head injury happens IN HIS BOOK. However, during interview with P. Boyles on August, 2, after hard 'preasure' from PB - Mr.Kolar said that he think the head injury happens in kitchen or dinning room. And after, someone 'kidnappes' JBR to the basement. Please listen (carefully this interview. Kolar's remark is close to the end.

 

[passionflower]

IMOO, I always thought the children snuck down for the pineapple, tired and cranky
brother strikes JBR with flashlight, she falls to floor.
Parents hear something, run in and see this.
Trying to revive JBR and scolding brother, thinking what to do.
Then staging, cleaning up (JR) and ransom note (PR)
all to protect the brother.....JMOO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Did LE ever find/search/notice gloves in the R's house? Did they check the garbages and wastepaper baskets? Were there any new ones (unused gloves) in the cabinets?

 

[UKGuy]

There is not one single shred of evidence implicating Burke in any aspect of this crime. If we rule out an intruder, and I think everyone here does, then the most likely candidate by far is John Ramsey, because the clear signs of sexual molestation cannot be ignored, and because we know very well that John has lied about many aspects of the case. If you must see Patsy as a collaborator, fine. But for God's sake, how can you ignore John?

Kolar decided to give both John and Patsy a pass, because they were "good Christians" in his eyes, and thus incapable of such a heinous crime. Yet he had no trouble assigning them truly gruesome roles in the coverup, despite their sterling Christian qualities. He winds up quoting Lou Smit on their behalf and then informs us that no one can be prosecuted anyhow, because Burke was too young and there's a statute of limitations. And your still taking this guy seriously?

Why?

docg,

There is not one single shred of evidence implicating Burke in any aspect of this crime.

Oh my! Absence of evidence is surely not proof of absence? And of course if the parents did their job properly any BR forensic evidence should be gone?

And your still taking this guy seriously?

Why?

Simples.

One of the R's initially whacked JonBenet on the head. I have no evidence that allows me to rule out any particular R, so to different degrees of probability, they remain suspects.

.

 

[OpenMind4U]

There is not one single shred of evidence implicating Burke in any aspect of this crime. If we rule out an intruder, and I think everyone here does, then the most likely candidate by far is John Ramsey, because the clear signs of sexual molestation cannot be ignored, and because we know very well that John has lied about many aspects of the case. If you must see Patsy as a collaborator, fine. But for God's sake, how can you ignore John?

Kolar decided to give both John and Patsy a pass, because they were "good Christians" in his eyes, and thus incapable of such a heinous crime. Yet he had no trouble assigning them truly gruesome roles in the coverup, despite their sterling Christian qualities. He winds up quoting Lou Smit on their behalf and then informs us that no one can be prosecuted anyhow, because Burke was too young and there's a statute of limitations. And your still taking this guy seriously?

Why?

Not agree!!! (What else is new?...And here is why. If you did read Kolar's book then you should see how carefully he took-off the mask from JR. He spend more pages to show John's lie than anybody else (reference to his LIES in regards of basement: was he in the basement in the morning? if yes, why not tell noone; what did he see/not see, bizzare chair story; playing 'detective' in Burke's room and so on). So, please don't minimize Kolar's effort to expose John. But this is NOT the reason why I don't agree with your above post.

Kolar methodically explained the difference between 'organized' and 'disorganized' criteria of JBR crime. He described which 'actions' (head blow, strangulation, RN and so on...) belongs to which criteria. It's the most important 'lesson' I had! And by understanding the human behavior and psychology (yeap my dear DocG, profiling again - read Kolar book!) Kolar deducts that MORE THAN ONE person was involved!

not JMO

 

[txsvicki]

I just have to ask. Is the strangulation disorganized or organized? I say both but he's the expert.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope, I posted this on the FFJ thread to explain my thinking. Hope this helps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you all so much for your responses. See, this helps me think, I can't tell you how much. Each of you has given me ideas, and thinking about what you're pondering, little pieces of this puzzle start moving around and some fall into place, as well.

What prompted me to start this thread is I had an epiphany of sorts...or another stupid idea, who knows? :fingers:

I'm looking at the three questions to answer one final, and critical one:

Could Burke have placed JB by the paint tray, where she was strangled, and where she died?

My epiphany is this: there is only one way Burke could have strangled JB by the paint tray, and that's if he felled her right there, in that spot.

I say that because I don't believe Burke could have carried JB. At 45 lbs. at autopsy, Burke would have had some trouble even moving her from, say, the train room to the paint tray.

There were no bruises or scrapes on her body, as far as I've ever seen or as described in the autopsy, which indicated she'd been dragged. So I'm thinking that Burke, at his own height and weight, wouldn't have been able to pick her up and carry her.

I know this isn't anything hard to figure out, but stay with me.

I'll respond to your posts and ideas separately, but in hopes of keeping this idea from getting too complex off the bat, here's the gist of my thoughts:

The only way I can figure out Burke delivering the head blow and also strangling his sister by the paint tray is if he felled her there. Then she would have been in position for what happened at the paint tray, so he didn't need to carry her.

This might fit the evidence. I'm thinking this through.

One problem I have with this is the 90 minutes between the head blow and the strangulation.

Would Burke, not yet 10 years old, wait around the house/basement for 90 minutes while his sister was dying, and decide then to strangle her?

Does that make sense?

So I'm asking Question 1: where did the head blow occur? If it occurred in the basement, outside the cellar room, then Burke could have also been the person to strangle her, as far as physical capability.

But if it happened somewhere else, like in/near her bedroom, where her blood was found on her pillow, where there is a lot of chaos, open drawers, diapers hanging out of a cabinet, a kitchen knife on a laundry machine, then I think we can all agree Burke did not carry JB down two flights of stairs and strangle her 90 minutes later.

That would put Patsy and/or John in the act of strangulation, as the only other two people in the home and with their fibers on the body and murder weapon.

If the head blow happened in the kitchen or another area, same thing. Burke could not carry his sister, I don't believe. So back to Patsy and/or John being the actual killers.

So question 2: what happened in that 90 minutes? I'm trying to picture Burke hanging out, maybe panicking, maybe not, somewhere in the house, his sister dying by the paint tray where he struck her, then an hour and a half later deciding to go strangle her with a ligature.

It was very late for children. They'd been up since before dawn, as well, excitedly opening their presents, playing with their Santa toys, running around with friends in the hood and such, visiting at the Whites, more children, more toys...then they came home and, according to Patsy and John Burke wasn't put to bed until 10 pm.

But the pineapple is that big bugaboo, isn't it? It puts the lie to JB being asleep as she was put to bed, Patsy changing out her jeans for longjohns, etc.

So there's only two ways this could have happened, if there is any truth to what John and Patsy said:

1. JB woke up and Burke got back up, after the parents went to bed.

OR Patsy and John lied and...

2. JB was awake or woke up when they got back home and whatever happened, it went down before anyone went to bed.

If either of the above scenarios happened, and if Burke were the one who struck that blow, unless it happened in the basement, by the paint tray, and Burke roamed around or did whatever until 90 minutes later, when he strangled JB to death there, there is only one other conclusion I can reach:

John and/or Patsy carried JB to the paint tray and strangled her there.

So this leads to Question 3: How did JB get to the paint tray?

This is important because as I'm looking at this, with the timing between the head blow and strangulation established by Dr. Meyer as 90 minutes, and because I am speculating that a child the size of Burke could not carry the dead weight of a limp, 45 lb. body and there were no drag marks on the body, we might reasonably conclude the head blow occurred by the paint tray if Burke was responsible for that and then he would have been in a position to complete the act of strangulation...or...

Patsy and/or John are culpable for the strangulation. Any other scenario except Burke committing the head blow and strangulation by the paint tray implicates John and/or Patsy, whose fibers are all over the body and crime scene, with Patsy's actually tied INTO the ligature, as well.

I'm struggling with how to express my thoughts on this, so I hope this makes sense. If it does, we're down to one scenario where Burke could have committed both violent attacks on his sister. If it doesn't, then look into this smilie :hypno: and repeat 100 times: I never read it...I never read it....

Thoughts?

Thank you, I know see where you are going with this. I won't argue with you about BDI theory, I'll just accept this as an academic exercise.

I think you have a couple solid ideas here. One, BR couldn't really move JB, at least not very far. I don't think he could have pulled her downstairs with the under arm pulling method - JB would be above him on the stairs and I think he'd loose control and both would tumble down. So you're right that if BR did the strangulation he had to hit her at, or near, the spot where she was strangled.

Of course it follows, as you point out, that if the head bash were done somewhere other than the basement, it had to be PR and/or JR who took her down to the basement.

Thank you for correcting me on the bleeding through the nose, I didn't know that. Putting that together with UKGuy's observation that there is no blood near the WC, and therefore it's probably not the site of the blow to the head, I think we can rule out BR as the strangler (assuming he didn't do it after PR or JR carried her to the WC)

I'm not aware that there was blood found anywhere else in the basement (Of course I may not be aware of a lot of things) so it seems the head blow must have been on one of the other floors. I reckon UKGuy is on the right track saying it was the bedroom, there was blood there. Of course, the blood from that injury might have been wiped up at the same time/location where the forensic evidence was wiped off the body. I guess that would mean the blow to the head and sexual assault happened in the same location.

That partially answers question 3, she had to be carried by one of the adults. Obviously lone PDI or JDI theories will have that culprit doing the carrying. If a joint venture then probably JR - men usually do the carrying.

Question 2 is still open for lots of speculation as what was done might very much depend on which theory one prefers. I could see BR waiting around for quite a while for JB to "come to", informing his parents only after it became obvious she wouldn't.

Don't get too convinced by the fiber evidence as far as PR goes - it's not conclusive. You can type INTO the garrote, (or do as UKGuy doses and use entwined in bold face) but it doesn't make 2ndry transfer any less likely. (Of course it could be from primary as well - we have no way to tell)

Does Kolar have any ideas as to the weapon used to cause the skull fracture ? I'm just not sure a flashlight is sufficient, at least in the hands of a 9 year old.

 

[dodie20]

I just have to ask. Is the strangulation disorganized or organized? I say both but he's the expert.

I haven't read the book, but I'd guess the strangulation would lean towards the organized, especially if the note was written before. Also, it took some planning and organization, to construct the garotte. IMO, it looks lke the killer didn't want to physically put his/her hand on JB to kill her, so the 'distancing' garotte was made.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I just have to ask. Is the strangulation disorganized or organized? I say both but he's the expert.

According to Kolar - organized.

 

[Tadpole12]

I'll give answers based on kolar 's theory which makes lots of sense:

The head bash happened in the kitchen and everyone was awake because once tired kids lay down they would have went to sleep. There was only time for a bit of pineapple to be eaten, burke mentions the kitchen, and the flashlite was there. The kids could have been in their rooms and told to go to bed. They could have "quietly" gone down to sneak a snack.

How jonbenet got to the basement:
a child or adult could have pulled her under the arms from behind. I think the triangular mark could be from strangling, but kolar thinks from something else. It could be from a kid putting knuckles there and pulling jonbenet under the arms.

The 90 minutes: the parents not being very attentive may not have responded to noise right away. Once they did it probably took awhile to assess the situation, get the story from the other child, and see if she would come around. Someone probably knew the flashlite was used in the injury because it was wiped down. Jonbenet probably was not moved again due to knowing not to move an injured person. Lots of worry about the previous assault must have gone on. Maybe even phone calls and home medical books consulted. One R. Was probably sent to a room during this and got immersed in the beep beeping of video games.

I'm probably wrong and just going by comments and quotes from the book. Actually reading it may help me decide when or if he believes an adult got involved and just what was organized vs disorganized. There's no way that i'll believe anyone thought her dead though, especially without advanced medical advice and possible cheynes stokes.

Heyya txsvicki.

"but kolar thinks from something else. It could be from a kid putting knuckles there and pulling jonbenet under the arms. " - txsvicki

Is that what JK specifically states?
Interesting.
This mark, right side of face and neck?


http://zyberzoom.com/JonBenet.html
*WARNING AUTOPSY PHOTOS*

 

[txsvicki]

No, sorry if my post was misleading. That was a possible theory of mine based on my reading comments that kolar believes it to be an abrasion. I haven't read the book yet.

 

[BOESP]

If an Intruder did this and used cord from the Ramsey household then that is one piece of information that points toward disorganization.

If a Ramsey did it with planning and gathering of specific materials in advance then that is a piece of information that suggests organization.

A disorganized crime scene can come from an organized offender and vice versa.

Only those with full access to the evidence and who have had training in profiling would be able to assess and answer the question of organized vs disorganized. I'd guess Kolar is qualified but not all investigators take training in profiling. It is a fairly new art (early 1980s until now) involving psychological analysis and evidence evaluation combined with the science of mathematics. If you believe JonBenet was the victim of a sexual predator may I suggest reading Roy Hazelwood's work.

As much as I have learned to dislike John Ramsey without personally knowing him, he just doesn't fit the "profile" of a child molester to me, even situational molestation.

 

[UKGuy]

According to Kolar - organized.

I agree. The sexual assault is psychologically disorganized as is the whack on the head, and much of the following 90 minutes until some kind of action is decided upon, then it become partially organized, with some kind of cleanup.

Just about everything done down in the basement is organized, since its mainly all staging, paradoxically, this includes the asphyxiation, since it is premeditated.


.

 

[Flatlander]

As per requests to bring this discussion here, which I had started first at FFJ:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Last night while reading and posting at WS I either had an epiphany or another brain fart.

It occurs to me that there are three things we need to know to decide if Patsy and/or John put that ligature on JB's neck and pulled it.

If one or both did, then it's murder one and no statute of limitations.

If John was involved, then it's still a prosecutable case. It would be time to let a jury decide.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In his book, Kolar lays out the "organized" vs "disorganized" elements of this crime scene. It got me to thinking about that. I believe it's very likely the head blow was from a disorganized, blitz attack, and the strangulation, staging, and ransom note were organized.

So I'm looking at this from that perspective: who did what, and when.

WHEN is critical. I"m not speaking of the actual TOD, but from the perspective of 90 minutes of sheer hell, after which the head blow was trumped by strangulation.

JonBenet's death started that night with the head blow: according to Kolar medical examiner Meyer determined, consulting with a number of other experts brought in, that the head injury came first. Then it was approx. 90 minutes until the ligature was tightened to strangle the child to death.

That death, according to Kolar and other sources we've seen, took place by the paint tray, outside the cellar door.

Working from that premise, I have three critical questions. If we had the answers, I think we'd know the truth about who strangled--and therefore killed--JonBenet Ramsey.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So the first question is this: What happened in that 90 minutes between the head blow and the strangulation?

The second question is this: How did JonBenet end up by the paint tray/carpet area by the wine cellar?

Finally, the answer to question three might tell the tale: Where did the head blow actually occur in the home?

I'd like to see what you think of these questions, what you speculate and theorize for the answers, and see where that takes us.
__________________

MOO - I believe it is possible that perhaps BR had a sleep over guest that night. Since Patsy knew about BR and JB little game I have read along time ago that she wanted to keep them seperated as much as possible. BR sleep over and companion to Michigan for BR could have been used as help to PR during this stressful time. I believe all three kids went to the basement. Looking for more Christmas presents as a lure. JB wearing her leash.
90 minutes between head blow and strangulation.
There are honestly several abrasions found on JB body.
FINAL DIAGNOSIS:
I.B: Abrasions of petechial hemmorages, neck
III: Abrasion of right cheek,
IV. Abrasion/Contusion, posterior right shoulder,
V. Abrasion on left lower back and posterior left lower leg
VI. Abrasions and vascular congestion of vaginal musoca
My question is why so many abrasions?
BR decides to play doctor w/his friend and JB screams. This is when she is hit on the head to silence her. BR understanding that JB was hurt but not to what extent could have continued with his little sexual/SM game. I honestly don't see a parent being so voilent as to cause the vaginal injury even if they had been the perp. And I do believe that BR was jealous of his sister and angry with her. I have also always thought that the trianguliar bruise on her left neck was caused by somebody grabbing her and chocking her - catching her skin beneath to cause this bruise. Then after some time BR realizes that JB isn't waking up and has to tell his folks. Most folks here don't seem to give much credence to the fact that PR sweater fibers are all tied up in the ligature as is JB's hair. I simply can't dismiss this. Or the fact that JB is wearing underwear twice her size and JR shirt fibers on found on the inside of JB underwear. If we go by what the R's had to say: JR was in bed and didn't see JB until he found her in the basement the next day; he put her to bed alseep and PR changed her. The barbie gown had JB blood on it which I believe was retreived from the dryer with the blanket by PR. Why did JR say He didn't mean to kill her when he brought her up from the celler and he wasn't speaking about himself or is this here say as well? Coincidence that on the 911 call he tells BR that we are not speaking to you?

 

[justthinkin]

Statistically speaking if 90% of murdered children are murdered by a parent, then that only leaves 10% to be split between a stranger, another relative or friend of the family. So in my not so humble opinion it is a stretch to entertain that Burke was responsible.

If Jonbenet was cracked on the head elsewhere then taken to her bed where she bled on her upper sleeve and pillow, and if noted she was then gasping for air the chances are she'd have been suffocated with her pillow or another if someone was trying to put her out of her misery. It is absolutely preposterous that anyone wanted to put her out of her misery by strangling her.

I think it is also absurd to think Patsy Ramsey would have carried her daughter down to the basement. Imagine: "My daughter is dying or dead so I'm taking her to the basement." Ludicrous. Why, why would she even think about doing that? And if she did think to put Jonbenet in the basement to keep Burke from knowing what was going on or had gone on, she would have gotten JR to carry JonBenet to the basement. If, if, and only if JonBenet was bashed on the head elsewhere, there is only one person in that house that would have or could have easily carried her to the basement, and that person is JR. But some want to believe that Patsy, exhausted from Christmas doings, exhausted from mothering duties, packing for a trip to Charlevoux, having had some wine, and is also short on sleep, and has cancer is going to attempt to carry her daughter, who is a dead weight down the stairs to the basement? Come on! Get real.

Say what anyone will about the ineptitude of Linda Arendt, she was the only LE person in that house. Only she was privy to the behavior of any of the R family at the critical juncture of when Jonbenet's body was brought up from that basement. I trust her instincts when she said she wasn't sure just how many of them would be alive when LE reinforcements showed up. Evil has a way of making itself known, and I do believe she saw that evil that day while she was the sole person on the case.

I truly like DocG's theory, but it hinges on one thing, and that's that Patsy wouldn't have written the ransom note and also been the one to call 911. Darlie Routier stabbed two of her little boys, and she called 911. Susan Smith drowned her two, and she called 911. Andrea Yates drowned her five children, and called 911, though she readily confessed. Darlie Routier sounded truly in distress during her 911 call, but we know she was only acting. We also know that Patsy was used to performing on a stage. She could have carried the 911 call off, so as much as I might like to agree with DocG, I just can't.


Someone in that house caused the death of JonBenet, but because of circumstances, I don't think we'll ever get any closer to which person was responsible. The staging was done to not only to cover up a murder but also to protect JR's business from scandal, and the R's main source of income. We see this kind of thing over and over, when a Catholic Diocese protects a pedophile or when a school district or a university does the same. The motive for the staging and the ransom note was ultimately money, but not the silly sum mentioned in the ransom note. And while I'm on the subject of silliness, the silliest thing in the whole ransom note is a small foreign faction that understands "good southern common sense.

So back to the three questions...

Where did this head blow occur that night in the home? I can't say conclusively. It could have occurred in the bedroom, the kitchen or the basement.

What happened in the 90 minutes between that blow and the strangulation? I can't be certain there was a 90 minute delay, but if there was, I would imagine the killer used it to collect thoughts, envision a kidnapping scenario, and write a ransom note, break the window....

How did JonBenet end up by the paint tray where she was strangled and expired? I can't say conclusively. She either walked down there of her own accord or was carried down there.

I have not read Kolar's book yet, but it bothers me that someone would write a book basically dismissing the possibility that anyone could still be charged with JonBenet's death or so I've read here.

Even if BR caused JonBenet's near death, I think his participation ended there, and the parents or rather the one remaining living parent could be charged, but what with? Being an accessory in the very least or charged with murder via the garrote? It would be a brave DA who threw out a charge, and went to trial to see if he could make something stick.

 

[Tadpole12]

Heyya kk,

I had read your 'Three Critical Questions' thread over at FFJ,
and could only think about (my JBR mind is reeling from just TMI) about JK mention of "The end of the cord that had been wrapped around the stick was observed to be burned / melted." - JK FF p 65-55.

Is the inference to be made that at the point of construction of the garotte a child would not be capable of this type of modification to the rope?

 

[txsvicki]

About my possible theory of a kid scooting jonbenet to the basement with her up and their arms placed up under her arms. Since i said the triangle quarter size shape might be a finger knuckle mark, i now wonder if the mark on the left cheek could be from a sleeve button pressing in while pulling and scooting along. I could also almost be describing a choke hold.

 

[UKGuy]

About my possible theory of a kid scooting jonbenet to the basement with her up and their arms placed up under her arms. Since i said the triangle quarter size shape might be a finger knuckle mark, i now wonder if the mark on the left cheek could be from a sleeve button pressing in while pulling and scooting along. I could also almost be describing a choke hold.

txsvicki,
Could be, but how was JoBenet dressed when scooted to the basement. Since her feet were naked, and relatively clean with no abrasions?

 

[BOESP]

I haven't seen this mentioned in a while but based on the autopsy report JonBenet had, among other injuries, contrecoup injuries to the sides of her brain (if I remember correctly, since normally these type injuries are front to back as in shaken-baby syndrome).

Anyone want to address how those injuries fit? My opinion is she was shaken in an effort to revive her but I'm only guessing.