Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

[Carli]

Incredible. But then, I'm speaking as one who is constantly losing her phone and I only have to look for it in my handbag, my car, or my house. To consider looking for a phone in all of Southern Ontario is beyond awesome to my thinking. MOO.

That Kiji ad. I don't think the live link works anymore, but it turns out I did copy the text. Wish I'd noted the date! When I look at it again, it seems to be the source for several avenues we've sleuthed. Three guys - one of whom said "he'd be back". (Who heard this?) Went on a test drive "to a place near the fairgounds in Ancaster." (What evidence that they were near the fairgrounds? Do I recall there was already some function there that night? Whose understanding was it that they were going there?) And of course that ultra puzzling reference to finding the phone "on the ground." IMO, the person who placed this ad seemed somehow party to very specific information about the crime. MOO. Terrible grammar, half completed sentances and puter lingo, too. Sounds youngish and not exactly an intellectual high achiever. IMO. But then, possibly someone may have been purposefully trying to plant inaccurate information to, for instance, underscore the "third person" issue. IMO.

Cars & trucks section:

2007 Dodge Power Ram 3500 Pickup Truck
Please keep a look out for this truck. Our friend had it up on here
2 nights ago 3 guys came to look at it in ancaster 2 got dropped off
And the other guy said he would be back. Our friend tim bosma took the other
2 guys for a test drive near the fair grounds in ancaster. No one ever came back
Thay was 2 nights ago. Lisence plate 726 7zw. Please call police even
If u find a phone on the ground. Thanks go to the hamilton police services facebook page

 

[andreww]

Back to absolute basics for a sec... yanno I've always wondered how it was that LE jumped into the situation within hours of TB's disappearance. Once I was worried sick because my 16 year old sister's flight from the Maritimes had landed in the evening, she had reportedly disembarked, but hours passed until by early next morning she had still not arrived at our place so we frantically contacted LE. They said they'd file a report but suggested it was far too early to be very concerned. She'd probably met some new friends on the plane and had gone off with them somewhere. (Sorry to say, it turned out they were right.) I have to say that if I called LE to say my husband had driven off with a couple of other guys late in the evening before and hadn't arrived home yet, I honestly wouldn't have expected them to do anything other than patronize me and give me some sort of "boys will be boys" line with a "call back in a couple of days if he hasn't shown up" line. Fact is, it is not a crime for a person to go missing. While it's incredibly important to file a missing person's report with LE as soon as possible, this in no way means they'll dedicate much of their limited resources to search for your particular loved one before they're satisfied that a crime has occurred. And even then...? IMO. MOO. So, I guess I'm wondering if there may have been some reason, perhaps arising from some other investigation, that Hamilton LE had advance concerns about a serious crime that might be planned for the Hamilton area - not TB specifically, of course, but something that made them immediately recognize the seriousness of the missing person's report. I dunno. Just wondering aloud, here. MOO. IMHO. etc.

All depends on the circumstance. There is no hard and fast rule as to when police will investigate but they will use common sense and experience to assess each case individually. They will look at the person who is missing. Are they reliable? Is disappearing for a few hours something that would be out of character? Was there a domestic situation involved? Etc. In this case you have a fairly responsible family man that stepped out to do what was expected to be what should have been a very short task. There was no argument with the wife, no history of disappearing with drinking buddies. It certainly wouldn't have taken long for LE to deduce that something was seriously amiss here, although I'm sure they thought more along the lines of accident or mechanical failure at first.

 

[andreww]

Incredible. But then, I'm speaking as one who is constantly losing her phone and I only have to look for it in my handbag, my car, or my house. To consider looking for a phone in all of Southern Ontario is beyond awesome to my thinking. MOO.

Thats why I don't get it. Even if LE knew the phone was on a certain block, it could have taken days to find it. I'm not sure how exact cell tower pings are, but I was under the impression that they could only tell that you were in a certain area, nothing precise. It might be a different story if the phone was found powered up in working order, but I really would doubt that to be the case. I think its actually miraculous that they found it so quick. But who knows, it might have been found by a lawn cutter or citizen and turned in to police. But I do feel certain that If DM purposely took the phone to avoid detection, that LE would not have found it so quickly.

 

[MsSherlock]

Back to absolute basics for a sec... yanno I've always wondered how it was that LE jumped into the situation within hours of TB's disappearance. Once I was worried sick because my 16 year old sister's flight from the Maritimes had landed in the evening, she had reportedly disembarked, but hours passed until by early next morning she had still not arrived at our place so we frantically contacted LE. They said they'd file a report but suggested it was far too early to be very concerned. She'd probably met some new friends on the plane and had gone off with them somewhere. (Sorry to say, it turned out they were right. Silly girl.) I have to say that if I called LE to say my husband had driven off with a couple of other guys late in the evening before and hadn't arrived home yet, I honestly wouldn't have expected them to do anything other than patronize me and give me some sort of "boys will be boys" line with a "call back in a couple of days if he hasn't shown up" line. Fact is, it is not a crime for a person to go missing. While it's incredibly important to file a missing person's report with LE as soon as possible, this in no way means they'll dedicate much of their limited resources to search for your particular loved one before they're satisfied that a crime has occurred. And even then...? IMO. MOO. So, I guess I'm wondering if there may have been some reason, perhaps arising from some other investigation, that Hamilton LE had advance concerns about a serious crime that might be planned for the Hamilton area - not TB specifically, of course, but something that made them immediately recognize the seriousness of the missing person's report. I dunno. Just wondering aloud, here. MOO. IMHO. etc.

Carli, IMHO, the call made to LE that night would have gone thru some form of triage to determine if it warranted an immediate response. I'm also of the belief that not all LE forces are the same. SB knew some critical info. 1: the truck was listed on kijiji 2: two younger men, one wearing a hoody, showed up out in the country, on foot at 9:20 pm. 3: her husband didn't know them 4: her husband left with them and said he would be right back 5: her husband had his cell phone and wasn't answering it 6: it was totally out of character for him.
Personally, I can see how HPS thought it was more than suspicious and escalated the call. Unfortunately, there was nothing HPS could have done to prevent TB's murder, furthermore, I don't think anyone could ever fault HPS for dropping any balls in this case. MOO

 

[inbetweendoors]

OT, but I've been wondering why [name/initials withheld, but you know who I mean] still has his fb fully visible with all the pics of DM, including very obvious ones that show the "ambition" tattoo(s). Also on the pic of the Nova (I think), he refers to DM's car projects as "pretty legit". That also stuck out to me...

Does anyone think he may have given LE a tip when the news of the tattoo broke? Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, I'm still catching up on all the different threads.

Part of me wants to say no...in one post, he refers to DM as his "best friend" (a term I found odd for a dude to say about another dude to a bunch of dudes...IMO), however he was most likely interviewed by LE and I just get the feeling this kid wouldn't have lied to them. Completely unfounded with no real backing, but MOO nonetheless.
***I know he has been fully cleared of any involvement by LE, and I am in no way trying to implicate him in anything - I was simply surprised to still be able to find [pics of] DM on fb at this stage in the game.***

Two reasons I think he may still have it up:
1) Someone posted somewhere, sometime on this forum that DM's lawyer(s) may have encouraged people to "jump back on" DM's fb friends list when everyone apparently jumped ship after his arrest, to put him (DM) back into the public eye as a 'regular, innocent guy' who had friends other than the seemingly sketchbag MS.
2) This kid's fb timeline reads like someone who wasn't much of a "somebody" until he met DM...coattail riding (why oh why?) and having his photos now filled with hate-filled comments by strangers. Maybe attention-seeking?

Is there any legitimate legal reason he would have to leave it up?

^^All 100% MOO and probably not really of much relevance anyway.

Side Note (MHO): I started back at the ORIGINAL thread last night (when TB went missing) and noted a couple of things: It reads like such an intense novel. It's a shame it's non-fiction
It's interesting to read at this time, because while everyone on the thread is speculating about the 2 (or 3) suspects, I of course am coming in over a year later and know some of these answers. Some of the theories are absolutely marvelous though! What keeps it interesting is that MOST of the questions posited still haven't been answered, and most likely won't until trial, if ever. In fact the list of questions has probably quadrupled since this past April's "events".
Some people made guesses and ended up being spot on, too - that was kind of cool to watch unfold. You're all really excellent critical thinkers!!

 

[SnooperDuper]

It's been recently asked exactly when LE got on to the trail of DM. LE immediately traced the burner phone, and through that, contacted the Really Big Etobicoke Guy who also had gone on a test drive with DM and MS after being contacted by that phone. That fellow was able to give a description of DM's tattoos. And then:

a physical feature recorded on a “208” contact card during a traffic stop led police to accused murderer Dellen Millard.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/carding_by_toronto_police_drops_sharply.html

That is, LE already had that uniquely located and boxed "Ambition" tattoo, attached to DM's name, in their database.

Remember that LE did not announce the description of the tattoo to the public until the May 9 news conference, which occurred almost simultaneously with his arrest that day. I expect that LE released the description at that time as a ploy to trigger people who knew DM had that tattoo (and perhaps a problem on his hands as well) to call him and warn him that LE was looking for him. (At that same presser, LE said that they did not know who they were looking for, and of course that was not accurate, as they had enough probable cause to place DM under arrest at that time.)

So LE would have ID'd DM before they ID'd CN as being part of this.

At 7 AM on the morning MS was arrested, May 22, 2013, again, LE claimed:

Investigators have not identified the two suspects they are looking for in connection to Tim Bosma's murder, says the detective in charge of the case.

Yet Detective Sergeant Matt Kavanagh of the Hamilton police homicide unit told The Spectator he does not believe the public is in any danger.

"You'll just have to trust me on this," he said when asked to explain.

and:

"We don't have them identified," Kavanagh says of the two suspects still being sought. "But we're confident they have to be someone Dellen Millard knows."

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/clairmont-no-id-yet-of-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-murder

In reality, LE was about to go Hawaii 5-0 on MS's momma's house within hours.

 

[inbetweendoors]

Incredible. But then, I'm speaking as one who is constantly losing her phone and I only have to look for it in my handbag, my car, or my house. To consider looking for a phone in all of Southern Ontario is beyond awesome to my thinking. MOO.

That Kiji ad. I don't think the live link works anymore, but it turns out I did copy the text. Wish I'd noted the date! When I look at it again, it seems to be the source for several avenues we've sleuthed. Three guys - one of whom said "he'd be back". (Who heard this?) Went on a test drive "to a place near the fairgounds in Ancaster." (What evidence that they were near the fairgrounds? Do I recall there was already some function there that night? Whose understanding was it that they were going there?) And of course that ultra puzzling reference to finding the phone "on the ground." IMO, the person who placed this ad seemed somehow party to very specific information about the crime. MOO. Terrible grammar, half completed sentances and puter lingo, too. Sounds youngish and not exactly an intellectual high achiever. IMO. But then, possibly someone may have been purposefully trying to plant inaccurate information to, for instance, underscore the "third person" issue. IMO.

BBM:

- I have a screengrab and it was posted May 8

- In my reading back of the oldest threads lately, it was posited that the "fairgrounds" were a landmark LE thought people would recognize, and was also the direction TBs truck had been headed in, so people would know where to keep their eyes peeled

- When everyone was questioning this ad, the part that stuck out to me, since everyone else was focusing on those other points already, was that the poster said "thanks go to the hamilton police services facebook Page". This lead me to believe that perhaps this was posted by someone who was following LE's fb thread about TB and was trying to be helpful. I scoured the comments on HPS's May 8 post (though admittedly I didn't get too far, the ignorance of some people on there, not to mention the abhorrent spelling/grammar made my brain bleed) to see if something was mentioned about the phone that they were working off of. All I could find was LE's own statement about TB's phone having been turned off (or something along those lines) - maybe somebody made the logical assumption that it had been dropped or dumped, so was asking people to look for even that "clue" (which turned out to probably be the best lead they had).

MOO. HTH.

 

[inbetweendoors]

It's been recently asked exactly when LE got on to the trail of DM. LE immediately traced the burner phone, and through that, contacted the Really Big Etobicoke Guy who also had gone on a test drive with DM and MS after being contacted by that phone. That fellow was able to give a description of DM's tattoos. And then:



http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/carding_by_toronto_police_drops_sharply.html

That is, LE already had that uniquely located and boxed "Ambition" tattoo, attached to DM's name, in their database.

Remember that LE did not announce the description of the tattoo to the public until the May 9 news conference, which occurred almost simultaneously with his arrest that day. I expect that LE released the description at that time as a ploy to trigger people who knew DM had that tattoo (and perhaps a problem on his hands as well) to call him and warn him that LE was looking for him. (At that same presser, LE said that they did not know who they were looking for, and of course that was not accurate, as they had enough probable cause to place DM under arrest at that time.)

So LE would have ID'd DM before they ID'd CN as being part of this.

At 7 AM on the morning MS was arrested, May 22, 2013, again, LE claimed:



and:



http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/clairmont-no-id-yet-of-two-other-suspects-in-bosma-murder

In reality, LE was about to go Hawaii 5-0 on MS's momma's house within hours.

1) Brilliant post! I lol'd at that last line.
2) Completely forgot about the contact card - good call!!

 

[Carli]

Re the friend who still has an active FB page - Wasn't it determined that he was working on a construction project out west somewhere during the time period, so could not have participated in the crime. MOO. As I recall, anyway. IMHO. Maybe he keeps the page up because he doesn't think his friend(s) are guilty either. No legal reason to take the page down, MOO. An interesting photo of fake facial injuries, though. Posted last October.

 

[Carli]

Sounds good, inbetweendoors. But who do you think was the eyewitness who saw "three people" and heard one say "he'd be back"? Possibly it could be a misinterpretation of SB's original statement where actually the three people would be DM, MS and TB, with TB saying "he'd be right back"? Very curious, just the same. IMO.

 

[inbetweendoors]

Oh yeah, I never said he was connected or participated, hope that wasn't implied!

I noticed those fake injury photos you mentioned too. I'm assuming something Halloween-related, given the date. IMO. I have several 'special effects'-industry friends on my fb so I see that stuff all the time. Freaky til you realize who's posting it! lol MOO.

I guess I'll just say that, if it turns out, for whatever stretch of the imagination, DM is found NOT guilty as charged, then I would be glad to know he does still have friends in his corner. Innocent until proven guilty...

 

[inbetweendoors]

Sounds good, inbetweendoors. But who do you think was the eyewitness who saw "three people" and heard one say "he'd be back"? Possibly it could be a misinterpretation of SB's original statement where actually the three people would be DM, MS and TB, with TB saying "he'd be right back"? Very curious, just the same. IMO.

I think I agree with you, that it was probably just a misconstrued version of what SB related. Even the "he'd be right back" could have been what SB heard the two guys say about their 'buddy' who apparently dropped them off. We don't actually know how much of them she saw or how much she heard, do we? I can't recall... Were they right at the front door? Was she? What kind of audio/visual barriers might there have been between them? Her description (visual) seemed good from the get-go, IMO. Hmmm...

 

[cansleuther]

Sounds good, inbetweendoors. But who do you think was the eyewitness who saw "three people" and heard one say "he'd be back"? Possibly it could be a misinterpretation of SB's original statement where actually the three people would be DM, MS and TB, with TB saying "he'd be right back"? Very curious, just the same. IMO.

A friend of TB's also posted something similar on Reddit at around the same time. The post also mentions that the two men asked to be dropped off at a local Tim Hortons after the test drive.

 

[inbetweendoors]

A friend of TB's also posted something similar on Reddit at around the same time. The post also mentions that the two men asked to be dropped off at a local Tim Hortons after the test drive.

Thanks! I was wondering where that Timmy's thing came from. Hasn't come up yet in my catch-up reading, just references to it. That's quite the different story though...asked to be dropped off...interesting.

 

[swedie]

Sounds good, inbetweendoors. But who do you think was the eyewitness who saw "three people" and heard one say "he'd be back"? Possibly it could be a misinterpretation of SB's original statement where actually the three people would be DM, MS and TB, with TB saying "he'd be right back"? Very curious, just the same. IMO.

SB I would assume. Wasn't it stated in early reports a friend/someone had dropped the suspects off at, or near the Bosma home and left to run an errand and would meet up with them later (fairgrounds)? Had SB been there when it was mentioned by the perps, this information would lead her to believe there was a third person involved? I cannot find the article but will continue to search for it. MOO.

 

[Somegirl]

Thats why I don't get it. Even if LE knew the phone was on a certain block, it could have taken days to find it. I'm not sure how exact cell tower pings are, but I was under the impression that they could only tell that you were in a certain area, nothing precise. It might be a different story if the phone was found powered up in working order, but I really would doubt that to be the case. I think its actually miraculous that they found it so quick. But who knows, it might have been found by a lawn cutter or citizen and turned in to police. But I do feel certain that If DM purposely took the phone to avoid detection, that LE would not have found it so quickly.

I live in the Paris area and my friend who's office is near the site where the phone was found, had heard days later that it was found by a maintenance person cutting the grass in the area. This is hearsay of course but made sense to me.

 

[swedie]

May 8, 2013, during a press conference, a reporter asked Det. K about the suspects being dropped off by a third male at 3:57 into the video and he responds, not sure where that information came from ect. Asked if SB saw the perps, answer is yes SB saw the perps. Where did that information come from about the perps being dropped off and leaving? It's out there somewhere, MOO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvBQqtxpj8E

 

[Carli]

I live in the Paris area and my friend who's office is near the site where the phone was found, had heard days later that it was found by a maintenance person cutting the grass in the area. This is hearsay of course but made sense to me.

Sounds logical, somegirl, but realistically, I'm not sure that a maintenance guy's first thought, upon discovering a (possibly broken) cell phone on the lawn somewhere in southern Ontario, would be to turn it over to LE. Just sayin'. IMO.

 

[ABro]

Sounds logical, somegirl, but realistically, I'm not sure that a maintenance guy's first thought, upon discovering a (possibly broken) cell phone on the lawn somewhere in southern Ontario, would be to turn it over to LE. Just sayin'. IMO.

The rumour is he phoned "home."

 

[Carli]

I see. You mean he reached the Bosma residence?