Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

[Snoofo]

I've had this idea for a while and it might be totally implausible but here goes. The fact that TB's wife could not attend the bail hearing because she would be called as a witness made me wonder if CN might have showed up at TB's house to try to get info when they were coordinating efforts to find him.

Interesting thought. I can't see why they'd ever wait a year to charge her.

 

[SnooperDuper]

On May 9 CN did something that "proves" to LE she knew he killed TB. What if she didn't believe he killed TB and thought she was assisting him on May 9 in avoiding a false arrest? Meaning she didn't think he did it but she was aware of some involvement on his part that made it look bad for him, then offered to help him? If she thought she was assisting a scapegoat but not a murderer is she still an accessory?

No real mentions of texts but knowing the youngsters in my life there MUST have been more texts than calls.

The large computer seizure talk came out not too long before the last few arrests.

Still can't get over the Three Matthews? What's next with this case for Pete's sake? Including Det. Kavanagh that's four Matts!!

I think "know" and "believe" are synonymous, e.g., to "know God" and the "believe in God".

Police allege Noudga knew Millard had killed Bosma and assisted in his “escape” last May 9, three days after Bosma disappeared, said Crown Attorney Tony Leitch.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...e_she_was_reported_missing_police_allege.html

Ultimately both DM and MS are accused of TB's murder, because it occurred during a theft of a truck. Even if CN believed that DM was a scapegoat because MS did the killing, the law does not see things the same way because of the theft that implicates both. I don't think it would help her position if e.g., MS were the killer and she provided DM with an alibi. Because of the theft, DM would still face first degree murder charges and CN would still be an accessory. MOO.

 

[Snoofo]

I think "know" and "believe" are synonymous, e.g., to "know God" and the "believe in God".



http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...e_she_was_reported_missing_police_allege.html

Ultimately both DM and MS are accused of TB's murder, because it occurred during a theft of a truck. Even if CN believed that DM was a scapegoat because MS did the killing, the law does not see things the same way because of the theft that implicates both. I don't think it would help her position if e.g., MS were the killer and she provided DM with an alibi. Because of the theft, DM would still face first degree murder charges and CN would still be an accessory. MOO.

They think she knew. Granted she may have known something went down that night. IF she didn't know DM killed him and knew, thought, believed, whatever, that he didn't do it and was therefore willing to help him escape suspicion then she was not IMHO an accessory to murder. On May 9 CM wouldn't have had any media info about DM's involvement and subsequent findings about him. All she knew until that point is what she was told and decided to believe.

I am just throwing the idea out there. I have no clue what she knew or what she did.

Wish I was at those hearings now, the suspense is driving me crazy. I do hope TB's dad Mr. Bosma is ok maybe it was too much for him, the poor man. Did TB's mom stay?

 

[deugirtni]

In regard to this (BBM):

“In a previous interview, Crown Attorney Anthony Leitch said the charge against Noudga relates to an allegation that she tried to help Millard "escape" on May 9, 2013. He would not elaborate as to what was meant by escape, or from whom. Police had at one time speculated there was a third person involved in Bosma’s abduction and slaying, but Leitch said Noudga likely had no part in it.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...week-1.2724926

Look carefully at the words: So LE thinks CN 'likely' had no part in the actual abduction and slaying, but that is not to say that they don't think she was there, and/or that she was following in DM's truck, probably unaware at the time, of what was about to happen, and of what did subsequently happen at the time (MOO). Then, on May 9th, she may have given LE some kind of statement to the effect of, 'she wasn't there', or perhaps that DM was with her, doing something else.. and then after an almost year long investigation, something came to light for LE (perhaps some kind of time consuming test results came back? perhaps someone finally came forward with some kind of information as to her involvement?) which proved her statement to be false? MOO.
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The reason for the 3-day bail hearing is not necessarily due to all the evidence against CN and all the defence, but rather, as stated in this news article which quotes LE, it is likely all about having to prove that there was in fact a murder at all, in order for CN to be charged with accessory-after-the-fact-in-murder:
This was published on April 12, 2014 in The Spectator by Susan Clairmont (BBM):

"Despite all the reporting and all the time that has passed, there are still so many questions about what happened. And why.

Such details are often closely guarded by investigators and lawyers until the trial begins. But perhaps not in Tim's case.

Noudga, who has no criminal record, will apply for bail. And to run her bail hearing — which will presumably take place months, if not years, before Smich and Millard's trials — the Crown will have to lay out the entire murder case against them.
"When somebody's charged with accessory after the fact to murder, you have to prove there was a murder," says Leitch.

While bail hearings are generally subject to publication bans, Leitch is still put in the position of tipping his hand to the defence about his evidence and, perhaps, strategy in the murder case, in order to properly conduct Noudga's bail hearing."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4462499-clairmont-as-bosma-s-wife-pleas-for-his-return-millard-was-allegedly-escaping/

(I really really regret not taking that time off work to attend that bail hearing!)
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In previous posts, people have made reference to this case involving one of the largest computer confiscations in their history, and I am wondering if someone can provide the link to LE stating that?

"LE stated that the investigation involved one of the largest computer confiscation in their history"

 

[swedie]

JMO but whatever she did was totally wrong. Young, naive, scared? Whatever her excuse is/was it's so wrong. She knew DM was involved in this murder and did nothing but try and protect him and help him escape arrest. I'm apt to believe she wasn't forthcoming with information, probably lied, when LE originally spoke with her and they found out about it through their investigation, leading to her arrest almost a year later. Knowing she lied to LE and maybe confided in her parents, prompted her to lawyer up and sit and wait for the inevitable to happen; her arrest. Again JMO.

 

[deugirtni]

Just thinking.... MOO... if I were wealthy, and I happened to get 'set up'/'framed' for an abduction/murder, and was subsequently arrested and put in jail.. if I had nothing to do with it, I would be using my money to have my lawyer do whatever was possible to get me OUT. And yet no bail hearing has ever even been requested by DM (or MS). It isn't like the man can't afford the lawyer to do that for him. I don't *think* that DM's defence will be at the public purse's expense? And even if the answer ends up being 'no bail', at least I would have tried to set myself free. Imagine.. life as you know it, suddenly ending.. and if you were innocent, that would sure be a horrible thing to be locked up in solitary for YEARS until your day in court, nevermind a lifetime of the stigma of even being considered to have been involved in such a crime.

Am I missing something, or does this not speak volumes in itself?

 

[swedie]

Tony Leitch, the Hamilton Crown attorney prosecuting the Bosma case, says the project involves "one of the largest computer seizures in Ontario criminal law history."

After Millard and Smich were originally arrested, search warrants were executed to seize computers and cellphones which the OPP have analyzed, he says.

http://www.niagarathisweek.com/news...ed-bosma-killer-s-girlfriend-was-incinerated/

 

[deugirtni]

Wow, thank you swedie.

Tony Leitch, the Hamilton Crown attorney prosecuting the Bosma case, says the project involves "one of the largest computer seizures in Ontario criminal law history."

After Millard and Smich were originally arrested, search warrants were executed to seize computers and cellphones which the OPP have analyzed, he says.

http://www.niagarathisweek.com/news...ed-bosma-killer-s-girlfriend-was-incinerated/

 

[lclabtech]

(I really really regret not taking that time off work to attend that bail hearing!)

So maybe this is a stupid question, but I have a lot of days off (work evenings)... can anyone just go? When would be the next opportunity?

 

[MsSherlock]

So maybe this is a stupid question, but I have a lot of days off (work evenings)... can anyone just go? When would be the next opportunity?

iciabtech, CN is back in court in Hamilton this Friday, August 8th/14 at which time the Judge will give his decision on bail. Not sure what time it's scheduled for.

 

[deugirtni]

I think you and me both missed all of the testimony during those 3 days of the bail hearing, however when the judge (justice?) gives his ruling, he may elaborate on his reasons, so might still be worth going?

 

[skatergirl]

I think you and me both missed all of the testimony during those 3 days of the bail hearing, however when the judge (justice?) gives his ruling, he may elaborate on his reasons, so might still be worth going?

ubm

I attended all three days of the Christina Noudga bail hearing held last week at Hamilton’s John Sopinka courthouse

Justice Thomas Lofchik’s ruling on whether or not to grant bail will come down next Friday August 8th at 10 a.m.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2014/08/bail-decision-for-christina-noudga-on-friday-august-8.html

 

[inbetweendoors]

I had Friday off and I still didn't go...stupid Skyway, was worried about traffic. I'm silly.

 

[skatergirl]

I had Friday off and I still didn't go...stupid Skyway, was worried about traffic. I'm silly.

I was off Friday and didn't go either, but it was a combination of the skyway, long weekend, and that I live 3 hours away on a good day.

 

[swedie]

I have a feeling DM was the mastermind behind all three murders and MS was the goon who took payout for carrying them out using the handgun illegally purchased by DM.

I have no doubt in my mind LE received numerous tips from those who knew DM, once the description of DM's tattoo came out in the MSM.

Did CN question DM about what she was hearing in the MSM, re: tattoo description? Did DM confided in CN about the murder prior to the 9th, blaming it all on MS and asked should LE contact her, she was to provide a false alibi they concocted together? In regard to CN's charges, I have to wonder if LE had taken DM in for questioning on May 9th, based on tips they received (tattoo) and he provided a false alibi claiming he was with CN that evening and night. LE in turn called CN, asked her to come down to HPS for questioning in regards to DM. Because she was able to give an alibi, LE released DM. Why it took almost a year to arrest her if this was the case, I have no idea. Unless of course she then lawyered up and claimed she got her dates mixed up, upon further investigation/evidence, LE found out she lied thus getting her arrested. Oh the suspense. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If one is the mastermind: why are both men DM and MS behaving exactly the same, pleading "not guilty", making no statement except their names, not seeking bail? Is this all agreed and both DM/MS are keeping to that or what other reason is there?
Btw I want to know, whether DP is still DM's Lawyer or is it Ravin P or are they a team?

 

[andreww]

What I wonder is how LE came upon TBs phone. It's safe to assume that the phone was discarded by DMs crew to avoid tracking. If it were me, the battery would be removed, the phone crushed, and the pieces thrown where they wouldn't be detected.

My theory is that DM contacted CN via the burner phone asking her to locate TBs phone and remove it from the Hamilton area, possibly because of fingerprint or DNA evidence. I believe LE was following CN because her number was used in connection with the burner phone. I believe CN led LE to TBs phone and then refused to cooperate. All MOO.


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[andreww]

If one is the mastermind: why are both men DM and MS behaving exactly the same, pleading "not guilty", making no statement except their names, not seeking bail? Is this all agreed and both DM/MS are keeping to that or what other reason is there?
Btw I want to know, whether DP is still DM's Lawyer or is it Ravin P or are they a team?

I don't think they have a choice. If either of them talks, they both go to jail. Their only hope is to be united in their defense.


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[Arnie M]

What I wonder is how LE came upon TBs phone. It's safe to assume that the phone was discarded by DMs crew to avoid tracking. If it were me, the battery would be removed, the phone crushed, and the pieces thrown where they wouldn't be detected.

My theory is that DM contacted CN via the burner phone asking her to locate TBs phone and remove it from the Hamilton area, possibly because of fingerprint or DNA evidence. I believe LE was following CN because her number was used in connection with the burner phone. I believe CN led LE to TBs phone and then refused to cooperate. All MOO.


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There were hundreds of officers beating the bushes and ditches and roadsides looking for any kind of evidence shortly after the truck went missing , plus various surveillance cameras to give them a general idea where to look .... plus triangulation of cell towers before the phone was turned off

 

[Carli]

Back to absolute basics for a sec... yanno I've always wondered how it was that LE jumped into the situation within hours of TB's disappearance. Once I was worried sick because my 16 year old sister's flight from the Maritimes had landed in the evening, she had reportedly disembarked, but hours passed until by early next morning she had still not arrived at our place so we frantically contacted LE. They said they'd file a report but suggested it was far too early to be very concerned. She'd probably met some new friends on the plane and had gone off with them somewhere. (Sorry to say, it turned out they were right. Silly girl.) I have to say that if I called LE to say my husband had driven off with a couple of other guys late in the evening before and hadn't arrived home yet, I honestly wouldn't have expected them to do anything other than patronize me and give me some sort of "boys will be boys" line with a "call back in a couple of days if he hasn't shown up" line. Fact is, it is not a crime for a person to go missing. While it's incredibly important to file a missing person's report with LE as soon as possible, this in no way means they'll dedicate much of their limited resources to search for your particular loved one before they're satisfied that a crime has occurred. And even then...? IMO. MOO. So, I guess I'm wondering if there may have been some reason, perhaps arising from some other investigation, that Hamilton LE had advance concerns about a serious crime that might be planned for the Hamilton area - not TB specifically, of course, but something that made them immediately recognize the seriousness of the missing person's report. I dunno. Just wondering aloud, here. MOO. IMHO. etc.