Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory

[skatergirl]

Good question. If we're sort of poking around at the idea that her involvement may have something to do with the discovery of the trailer and TB's truck in MB's driveway, would that area be in the HPS balliwick? I don't know what the jurisdictional boundaries are. I don't know, either, who leads an investigation that spans jurisdictions. Great sleuthers abound here so I'm pretty sure somebody has the answer, imo.

I would have to say that HPS would still be responsible for presenting the evidence, even if it was located outside of their jurisdiction, simply because the crime in question for which they are attempting to locate such evidence, occurred within their jurisdiction as well as the fact that HPS were also the ones to have entered the item(s) into evidence in the first place. JMO

I will add that it does seem very reasonable that CN's involvement stems from something to do with the trailer drop given the date of her charge in relation to the trailer arriving at MB's, again JMO.

 

[Arnie M]

I would have to say that HPS would still be responsible for presenting the evidence, even if it was located outside of their jurisdiction, simply because the crime in question for which they are attempting to locate such evidence, occurred within their jurisdiction as well as the fact that HPS were also the ones to have entered the item(s) into evidence in the first place. JMO

I will add that it does seem very reasonable that CN's involvement stems from something to do with the trailer drop given the date of her charge in relation to the trailer arriving at MB's, again JMO.

Hi Skatergirl .... been some confusion about when the trailer was put there .... it was May 8 according to the neighbor who was watching the hockey game when it happened

However , a different newspaper interviewed a different neighbor who said he saw the trailer May 9th ... in other words the trailer was already there on the 8th but the other neighbor did not notice it until the next morning .

(thus the conflicting dates)

 

[swedie]

I remember there being much debate about when the trailer was dropped off; Wednesday the 8th or Thursday the 9th, in the evening. I would tend to believe it was dropped off on the Wednesday as that is when the Leafs were playing. IMO that would definitely be something a person would recall. Watching a game and something outside takes your attention away from the game kwim. But then we have the other neighbour who saw it there on the Thursday when he arrived home that night from an engagement in TO. Maybe that neighbour had been away for a couple days only to return home on the Thursday. With his statement about not seeing Ms. Burns at her home since Wednesday, could it be because he left that day and also saw her leaving also, maybe speaking to her? Then days later upon speaking with other neighbours, they hadn't seen her since Wednesday also? Then with the concern over the trailer being there and how it was parked, he went to her house to speak/check up with her but after days of no answer, became suspicious prompting a call to LE. JMO.

Bob D, who also lives on Tinsmith, said he saw someone bringing the black trailer in on Wednesday night, while D and his son were watching the Maple Leafs game. Then by Sunday, “there were more police cars on the street than there were neighbourhood cars.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...kes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

The trailer had been parked in her driveway since Thursday, next-door neighbour Robert D said.

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/truck-found-but-still-no-tim-bosma

Frank C spotted a large trailer parked in his neighbour’s driveway when he returned home Thursday night from an engagement in Toronto.

Mr. Cianfarani said he had not seen Ms Burns in the home since Wednesday.

http://www.yorkregion.com/news-stor...rs-shocked-by-discovery-of-tim-bosma-s-truck/

Maybe DM confided in CN what had happened to Tim and she rented a motel room, had him hidden there while they tried to figure out what to do next. JMO.

 

[matou]

Yes I reread the Wednesday night appearance of the trailer from the Star article. That hockey game was overtime and Boston won. Not sure when the game ended (after 10 pm I suppose). Not sure when exactly the neighbour saw the trailer. The same neighbour Bob D or Robert D (same last name) says specifically Wednesday night and then he says "since Thursday." He is a next door neighbour. Maybe the trailer appeared after midnight hence the Wed/Thurs confusion?

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...kes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/truck-found-but-still-no-tim-bosma

 

[matou]

Frank Cianfarani, who lives beside Madeleine Burns, Mr. Millard’s mother, called police on Sunday morning after becoming suspicious about the black trailer, which appeared in her driveway on Thursday evening and was parked against the garage door. Ms. Burns did not return phone messages.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...napping-charge-in-bosma-case/article11883445/

According to the other link from Swedie, this neighbour was away and got back on Thursday evening and would have missed any activity on Wed. night. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yes I reread the Wednesday night appearance of the trailer from the Star article. That hockey game was overtime and Boston won. Not sure when the game ended (after 10 pm I suppose). Not sure when exactly the neighbour saw the trailer. The same neighbour Bob D or Robert D (same last name) says specifically Wednesday night and then he says "since Thursday." He is a next door neighbour. Maybe the trailer appeared after midnight hence the Wed/Thurs confusion?

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...kes_mothers_day_plea_for_his_safe_return.html

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/truck-found-but-still-no-tim-bosma

The hockey game ended around 10:20. Here are the live updates.

http://livenews.thestar.com/Event/Live_with_the_Leafs__Kevin_McGran_reports_from_Torontos_morning_skate?Page=10

 

[inbetweendoors]

If Kavanaugh was a witness on the stand today (not sure if he was), does that mean that what Noudga did occurred in Hamilton Police Service jurisdiction?

I remembered an article earlier on that said she helped him on May 9 in Hamilton. Here's the link:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...al-killers-girlfriend-makes-court-appearance/

Quote BBM

"Charged with being an accessory after the fact to murder, she is accused of aiding Mr. Millard on May 9 in the Hamilton area..."

 

[matou]

I remembered an article earlier on that said she helped him on May 9 in Hamilton. Here's the link:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...al-killers-girlfriend-makes-court-appearance/

Quote BBM

"Charged with being an accessory after the fact to murder, she is accused of aiding Mr. Millard on May 9 in the Hamilton area..."

Yep. It says that. Adrian Humphreys is a good writer IMO. In the Hamilton area.

 

[matou]

Was there a public search for Tim Bosma in the Hamilton area on May 9th? Was she in conversation with LE or searchers to find out what the police knew about his disappearance?

 

[inbetweendoors]

Was there a public search for Tim Bosma in the Hamilton area on May 9th? Was she in conversation with LE or searchers to find out what the police knew about his disappearance?

I can only speak for myself, but TB's case was swarming all over social media (locally, Hamilton area), and it seemed everybody and their brother was looking for the truck. As far as an official public search goes, I don't know about that. Good thought though, matou.

ETA: Pondering...how could she have "inserted" herself like that, not being a local resident herself?

 

[matou]

Tim Bosma's cell phone was found on Thursday May 9th.

On Thursday afternoon, police found Bosma’s cellphone in an industrial complex in west Brantford – the direction he was last believed to have been heading with the two men.

No other items were recovered, but police said they were able to track the cellphone they believed the suspects used to contact Bosma.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...al-killers-girlfriend-makes-court-appearance/

 

[inbetweendoors]

Tim Bosma's cell phone was found on Thursday May 9th.

On Thursday afternoon, police found Bosma’s cellphone in an industrial complex in west Brantford – the direction he was last believed to have been heading with the two men.

No other items were recovered, but police said they were able to track the cellphone they believed the suspects used to contact Bosma.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...al-killers-girlfriend-makes-court-appearance/

So it looks like the cellphone may be the right track then... now would west Brantford be considered HPS jurisdiction, or were we reading into that part too much? Ancaster is part of the GHA I believe, but Brantford...?
I can't remember, what was the timeline/location with DM's burner phone and disposal? Or have they not actually found the burner phone and only went from TB's records of the calls which led them to the Etobicoke test drive guy? (Sorry, there's so much to keep up and keep straight)

ETA: Just pulled up some timeline articles, and they say TB's cell phone was found on the 10th, not the 9th.
(Also ETA: You were right, I found the info about it being found on the 9th on the first page of this thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-and-Mapping-the-Route&p=9498722#post9498722 )

In regards to searches on the 9th, MSM reports that this occurred (UBM):

"Wednesday, May 8 - May 9: A marine unit, mounted unit, and K9 unit search while police canvass door-to-door in the area around Bosma’s rural Ancaster, Ont. home."

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/timeli...rch-for-timothy-bosma-1.1279066#ixzz39Gnnwscm

Do we happen to know if CN has any familial or other connections to that area, to justify her maybe having been there for that? Probably not, just speculating...

 

[Carli]

Do you think maybe the cellphone was given to her to dispose of - and she tossed it away in the Brantford field? What was the address where it was found?

But, you know, I seem to recall that a free Kijiji ad was put out about the phone, asking people to look for it"on the ground". Lawd only knows if I can find it now. But what was that all about?

 

[inbetweendoors]

I'm still of the belief that the cell phone was disposed of on May 6, while they were out with TB...I have no factual reason to think that, it would just seem logical for perps to dispose of possible evidence rather than taking it with them. Not to say logic played any part in any of this...
Or like some have suggested, it was either dropped during a struggle, or TB intentionally dropped it to leave a "bread crumb". I'm leaning more towards the former of those two theories. If I feared I was in peril, I would want the opportunity to be able to use my phone if given the chance, as opposed to tossing it out for the police to possibly find later. Completely MOO. This whole thing just breaks my heart, as it did from day one. But I digress...

Realistically, the main questions here are:
- Where was DM on the 9th?
- Where was CN on the 9th?
- Where is/was the BURNER phone on the 9th? (or even now...what's IS the story with the burner phone, besides being able to locate the BEG for the earlier test drive?)

I think the trailer move may be a dead end on the CN front...IF we believe the quote that what she did (or helped do) was indeed in the "Hamilton area". DM's farm and/or hangar to his mom's house wouldn't include a trip through Hamilton. All JMO.

 

[inbetweendoors]

Do you think maybe the cellphone was given to her to dispose of - and she tossed it away in the Brantford field? What was the address where it was found?

But, you know, I seem to recall that a free Kijiji ad was put out about the phone, asking people to look for it"on the ground". Lawd only knows if I can find it now. But what was that all about?

The Kijiji ad you're referring to is here, just found it: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ELINE-**NO-Discussion**&p=9447530#post9447530
The questionable ad is discussed in some detail here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-and-Mapping-the-Route&p=9561020#post9561020

ETA: Post #90 on page 4 of the same thread gives an approximate address of where TB's cell was found, but there seems to be debate about the specifics...
See also: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-and-Mapping-the-Route&p=9501485#post9501485

Then on Page 6, Post #129, it appears a different location may be the one: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-and-Mapping-the-Route&p=9504190#post9504190

Either way, with the heavy police presence in the area that day, I would find it very unlikely that CN went there to get rid of TB's phone.

 

[Ont]

Tim Bosma's cell phone was found on Thursday May 9th.

On Thursday afternoon, police found Bosma’s cellphone in an industrial complex in west Brantford – the direction he was last believed to have been heading with the two men.

No other items were recovered, but police said they were able to track the cellphone they believed the suspects used to contact Bosma.


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...al-killers-girlfriend-makes-court-appearance/

exactly what Ive been thinking as well.

 

[Arnie M]

What could Millard have needed help with to cover his tracks and help him 'escape?'
-wash his clothes
-destroy/dump his clothes that he wore the night Tim Bosma was murdered
-help wipe his phone, his computer history
-help move his vehicles, move the incinerator?
-get MB to be 'elsewhere' so that Millard could store his trailer on her property
-provide a false alibi for Millard somehow
-help dismantle Bosma's truck into parts, remove identifying numbers from TB truck parts
-allow DM use of another vehicle or storage of his vehicle with her
-disposal of firearm or murder weapon
-cleaning up his vehicle to remove evidence

not sure if these qualify for accessory after the fact/helping to escape. This would happened three days after Bosma's murder.

I had an imaginary list of things CN may have done to implicate herself and some are very similar to your list.

I think she became aware of DM's situation a day or two afterward and did something to help him cover up ... but after TB had been found and DM had been arrested , she felt the pressure and talked to her lawyer before her actual arrest.

I expect a good lawyer would tell her to do nothing and say nothing and just hope she did not get dragged into the case

 

[inbetweendoors]

So what about the article that stated she did something in Hamilton on May 9, as I linked to above? Misquote perhaps?
I really doubt she dumped TB's phone that day, with the large LE presence in the area... but stranger things have happened. Also I don't think Brantford is HPS jurisdiction?

 

[matou]

So what about the article that stated she did something in Hamilton on May 9, as I linked to above? Misquote perhaps?
I really doubt she dumped TB's phone that day, with the large LE presence in the area... but stranger things have happened. Also I don't think Brantford is HPS jurisdiction?

Brantford has their own police service. Noudga did something to help Millard in the Hamilton area, it may not be in Hamilton itself. I'm thinking it isn't a misquote. It's extra info about her IMO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

HPS was the investigating police force...they could have picked her up and taken her to the Hamilton cop shop for an interview, and she might have provided false information, or a false alibi for DM, then.

I am assuming it's normal if they want to interview and perhaps video someone, that they would use their own facilities, and not those of the e.g., nearby TPS.