Timeline Discussion

[stmarysmead]

Existing threads that discuss this extensively:

Sources detail Terri’s timeline day Kyron disappeared #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Sources detail Terri’s timeline day Kyron disappeared - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thank you, BeanE... for those references and, of course, you are correct. My intent was to discuss just one issue in the "time-line"...the long ride home and present my reasons for unease with the explanation.

If I broke any rules here...I apologize.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I do not believe for one moment that Terri took the baby on such a long ride trying to calm her having an ear ache. The first thing I did when I thought one of my babies had an ear ache was take him/her to the pediatrician.

Riding may soothe a baby, but to go on country roads where there are most likely potholes and bumps that would wake her IF she had happened to go to sleep? NO. I do not know where Terri went that fateful morning, but driving the baby around was NOT what she was doing, IMO.

 

[skylineneighbor]

Assuming KH, like many people, reset the odometer of his truck when fueling up, and assuming the odometer reading was recorded when servicing the truck a few days after the disappearance .. this would give you the total distance traveled. Deduct what KH traveled, and that is what TMH traveled on Jun 3rd and 4th.

More questions .. did she purchase two identical outfits in the past? One to keep in locker at the gym to change into.

 

[T-Rex]

Desiree saying that Terri lied all the time has made this less suspicious to me. Most people are honest, and if they lie, something's up. Others tell shorthand stories to simplify things for themselves, and if Terri's one of them, this is less damning.

 

[debirlfan]

To look at this from another perspective - assume for one moment that TH wasn't involved in Kyron's disappearance. THEN how does one explain "the long ride"?

I can think of one possibility. TH has, for one reason or another, a stressful morning. Kaine claims that she has/had a drinking problem. So, instead of hanging around and picking up the frog exhibit, she goes to a grocery store (perhaps one she doesn't usually shop at, because she doesn't want to be seen by anyone she knows) and buys a couple bottles of wine/a case of beer. She drives somewhere (perhaps out on the island where her cell supposedly pinged) and sits in the truck and drinks.

Perhaps she calls DS, perhaps she just figures that working out will help her sober up. So she drives (under the influence) to the gym, and eventually home. She's still a little tipsy, which explains the unusually short emails to Desiree. She's also forgotten all about picking up the science project, so she emails the teacher about it.

When Kyron turns up missing, she's not about to admit that she's been DUI - especially if she initially thinks he's just wandered off or something. So, she concocts the story about the ear ache.

I don't know if I believe this - but it would be a rational explanation. I would be very interested to learn what she bought at the grocery store...

 

[miabellamoure]

I do not believe for one moment that Terri took the baby on such a long ride trying to calm her having an ear ache. The first thing I did when I thought one of my babies had an ear ache was take him/her to the pediatrician.

Riding may soothe a baby, but to go on country roads where there are most likely potholes and bumps that would wake her IF she had happened to go to sleep? NO. I do not know where Terri went that fateful morning, but driving the baby around was NOT what she was doing, IMO.

Nor I. However, I do believe TH DID take baby K on a "long ride" but, it was for other reasons...to look for a place to dispose of evidence & Kyron.

 

[PDXMom]

I've wondered about something else, and I'm not sure this is the right thread for it. Kaine said she was in her workout clothes when he got home. She could have taken a shower and got regular clothes on after working out at the gym, but I understand some people don't. But then, if they were all to meet Kyron at the bus stop and take him to ice cream, would she STILL have her workout clothes on? Or were the workout clothes part of her alibi to show she'd been at the gym? And then she was to drive down to Eugene to meet DY after that. Seems like a pretty busy afternoon out & about to not have taken a shower and get regular street clothing back on. Has this already been parsed?

 

[miabellamoure]

I've wondered about something else, and I'm not sure this is the right thread for it. Kaine said she was in her workout clothes when he got home. She could have taken a shower and got regular clothes on after working out at the gym, but I understand some people don't. But then, if they were all to meet Kyron at the bus stop and take him to ice cream, would she STILL have her workout clothes on? Or were the workout clothes part of her alibi to show she'd been at the gym? And then she was to drive down to Eugene to meet DY after that. Seems like a pretty busy afternoon out & about to not have taken a shower and get regular street clothing back on. Has this already been parsed?

Good point...I also wonder what she was wearing when she dropped Kyron off at school and if it was the same clothes as when Kaine arrived home. Do we know that?

Is there video inside the Gym she was working out at that day? It would be interesting to watch her demeanor and if DS was with her there...if it looked like the two were in any kind of deep conversation while working out.

 

[stmarysmead]

Good point...I also wonder what she was wearing when she dropped Kyron off at school and if it was the same clothes as when Kaine arrived home. Do we know that?

Is there video inside the Gym she was working out at that day? It would be interesting to watch her demeanor and if DS was with her there...if it looked like the two were in any kind of deep conversation while working out.

Excellent point! Did Kaine see her leave? He would know if the clothes were the same.

I'm really hung up on how long Baby K was away from home. If Terri didn't PLAN to be gone that long...how did she just happen to have what the baby needed for an early morning till mid-afternoon continuous outing??

 

[miabellamoure]

Excellent point! Did Kaine see her leave? He would know if the clothes were the same.

I'm really hung up on how long Baby K was away from home. If Terri didn't PLAN to be gone that long...how did she just happen to have what the baby needed for an early morning till mid-afternoon continuous outing??

Well, my daughter's minivan is well stocked with snacks in the console to an emergency diaper bag filled with diapers, wipes, etc. that she carries with her 24/7 for those just incase times...so, it's possible she did have things needed for Baby K. Also, do we know if Baby K is breastfed?

What bothers me the most about Baby K that day...is what she witnessed.

 

[Mamietwo]

Assuming KH, like many people, reset the odometer of his truck when fueling up, and assuming the odometer reading was recorded when servicing the truck a few days after the disappearance .. this would give you the total distance traveled. Deduct what KH traveled, and that is what TMH traveled on Jun 3rd and 4th.

More questions .. did she purchase two identical outfits in the past? One to keep in locker at the gym to change into.

That's what I said too, earlier, that there are ways to check the mileage that the truck had put on it recently, even with just the gasoline purchased whether the odometer was reset or not. Just about everyone knows how many miles they get to a gallon for the vehicles they own. I live by myself and I've always known for my cars.

 

[rnmif]

I don't know about you but if I had a baby/ child with an earache, rather than drive around for a hour (the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of) I would have spent that "hour" either going to the childs pediatrician or going to an urgent care center. I have never heard driving around soothes an earache nor does it solve the reason she supposedly had an earache in the first place.
Her story is not believeable. JMO Then she goes to the gym? How selfish can a mother be, has child w/ earache, does not seek medical attention, then goes to the gym? Jeez!

abbie

We don't know that she hadn't been to the doctor before, that a doctor hadn't ruled it out. I seem to remember it was in relation to teething? Teething can cause localized inflammation which can press on sensitive areas of the inner ear, certainly it's a known phenomenon.

Regardless... we don't know what the problem was, or what was or wasn't done, or if it's a chronic problem.

That said, I spent days and days and hours and hours driving my oldest son around back roads of TX when he was that age, because he wanted to give up his morning nap, but if he didn't have a morning nap, he would have an afternoon and evening nap and wake up at bedtime and go to sleep around 3am.

I chose back roads because it was important to have as many stretches of no stopping as possible (something that well describes parts of HWY 30) otherwise he wouldn't fall asleep/stay asleep.

I'm not giving any tremendous weight to that, nor does it mean TH is not guilty, but it's something I used to do myself, and it solved a problem I couldn't solve any other way. In fact, sometimes I'd be so tired, and if I got him out of the car, he wouldn't sleep, so I'd park under a shady tree in an out of the way area, and catch a little sleep myself.

I can assure you, I've never murdered any children and hidden their bodies, but God forbid, if I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, my behavior would have looked damn suspicious in retrospect.

 

[OneLove]

Desiree saying that Terri lied all the time has made this less suspicious to me. Most people are honest, and if they lie, something's up. Others tell shorthand stories to simplify things for themselves, and if Terri's one of them, this is less damning.

I look at this a bit differently. If Terri really did lie "all the time", meaning it was a common thing for her, it looks much worse. This probably indicates a personality disorder of some kind, and over time her friends and family learned to shrug and compensate for her many obvious lies. Often, people in these situations just quit calling a person on those lies. Often, they fool themselves into thinking this routine liar wouldn't do anything worse than lie constantly. I personally think this considerably increases the odds that such a person WILL do worse. Being positively reinforced for constant lying, they feel more at ease with doing "worse", IMO.

And I've know waaay too many such folk, both in my professional work AND in my family network. I cannot really say my "friend" network because, knowing what I know, I spot these people and avoid them like the plague in my personal life.

 

[skylineneighbor]

I chose back roads because it was important to have as many stretches of no stopping as possible (something that well describes parts of HWY 30) otherwise he wouldn't fall asleep/stay asleep.

In the early years the Eustachian tube is not fully developed and gets easily blocked resulting in ear infections. The elevation difference between Skyline (500 ft) and Hwy 30 would not be very enjoyable nor helpful for a kid that can not equalize her ears. These are also very twisty roads. No long stretches until you get down to Hwy 30. That leaves the big question .. why would somebody drive around "aimlessly".

As usual MOO.

 

[rnmif]

In the early years the Eustachian tube is not fully developed and gets easily blocked resulting in ear infections. The elevation difference between Skyline (500 ft) and Hwy 30 would not be very enjoyable nor helpful for a kid that can not equalize her ears. These are also very twisty roads. No long stretches until you get down to Hwy 30. That leaves the big question .. why would somebody drive around "aimlessly".

As usual MOO.

I lived in the area when we first moved here. From Skyline, you have to get down the hill, one way or another. either in the direction of 26 or 30. The roads are similar in either direction, but 26 has a lot more road work than 30 these days, which may have been why she chose to go over to 30 instead of 26.

 

[sherbetjello]

In the early years the Eustachian tube is not fully developed and gets easily blocked resulting in ear infections. The elevation difference between Skyline (500 ft) and Hwy 30 would not be very enjoyable nor helpful for a kid that can not equalize her ears. These are also very twisty roads. No long stretches until you get down to Hwy 30. That leaves the big question .. why would somebody drive around "aimlessly".

As usual MOO.

Earaches are part of teething as well, or sinuses.

 

[PDXMom]

I lived in the area when we first moved here. From Skyline, you have to get down the hill, one way or another. either in the direction of 26 or 30. The roads are similar in either direction, but 26 has a lot more road work than 30 these days, which may have been why she chose to go over to 30 instead of 26.

Maybe so, but you start to hit stoplights on Hwy 30 as soon as Scappoose to the east. And that new one at the Sauvie Island bridge now too. She could maybe have gone 5-10 minutes without having to stop on Hwy 30 either direction. I think the back roads she was referring to were the windy ones between the higher (Skyline) and lower (Hwy30) elevations. Of course, she could have driven for miles and miles ON the island itself without stopping, especially if she blew a few "optional" stop signs.

 

[rnmif]

Maybe so, but you start to hit stoplights on Hwy 30 as soon as Scappoose to the east. And that new one at the Sauvie Island bridge now too. She could maybe have gone 5-10 minutes without having to stop on Hwy 30 either direction. I think the back roads she was referring to were the windy ones between the higher (Skyline) and lower (Hwy30) elevations. Of course, she could have driven for miles and miles ON the island itself without stopping, especially if she blew a few "optional" stop signs.

Yes but it only takes maybe 10 minutes to get past Scappoose and St. Helens and then you're pretty much clear past Trojan and all the way through Rainier and Clatskanie and on to the coast. She couldn't have gone much past Rainier, but she could have made a loop on a long stretch. I've done that. Or even made a grid on open roads with minimal stops. I've done that too.

Cornelius Pass isn't a terribly windy road, nor is it terribly high. We lived in Hillsboro when we first moved here, and my son's best friend was in W. Scapoose, almost to St. Helens. I drove that road several times a week (and others). I'm pretty familiar with it. It's not a terribly grueling drive, nor is it a sharp elevation change at any point. It's pretty gradual up and down, which is less likely to cause pain.

 

[PDXMom]

Yes but it only takes maybe 10 minutes to get past Scappoose and St. Helens and then you're pretty much clear past Trojan and all the way through Rainier and Clatskanie and on to the coast. She couldn't have gone much past Rainier, but she could have made a loop on a long stretch. I've done that. Or even made a grid on open roads with minimal stops. I've done that too.

Cornelius Pass isn't a terribly windy road, nor is it terribly high. We lived in Hillsboro when we first moved here, and my son's best friend was in W. Scapoose, almost to St. Helens. I drove that road several times a week (and others). I'm pretty familiar with it. It's not a terribly grueling drive, nor is it a sharp elevation change at any point. It's pretty gradual up and down, which is less likely to cause pain.

Ah, right. I hadn't thought of the road west of Scappoose. It's certainly possible.

 

[sofia76]

These are all great questions ... very thorough post detailing all the questions one might have about Terri's drive along back roads with the baby.

I'll play devil's advocate and provide some possible answers that I think are plausible.
-Maybe Terri didn't buy perishables. She may have just run to the store for, say, toothpaste, or a can of cream of mushroom soup, formula, or baby food. Heaven knows I've done that. I usually do my meat/dairy shopping once every two weeks, then do supplemental runs more frequently.
-Maybe the baby didn't have an earache per se, but was just fussy. 18 months is definitely an age where teething happens, and it's not uncommon for them to put their hands on the ears. I've never driven around for 90 minutes trying to soothe a fussy baby, but I have driven around in the car after a fussy baby fell asleep in the car. (But rather than waste gas, I've pulled over into a parking lot or on a residential street to have a phone conversation, read a book, or eat as baby slept.)
-If baby didn't have an earache exactly, but was just fussy/tired/teething, this could explain why she took baby to childcare at the gym without mentioning an earache.
-I've changed many a diaper in the car if I wasn't at a location that had a changing table.
-I don't know if Terri was breastfeeding, but if she were, I know lots of moms who take breastfeeding breaks in the car. Or she could have easily carried snacks with her, and a bottle. At that age, I always took at least one extra bottle with me, even if I were only planning to be out for 20 minutes. You could get stuck in construction traffic, or a bottle could leak, spill open, or be "off" for some reason.

I suspect that Terri probably has a pat answer for everything ... or is just not answering things. And that is why things are not adding up to investigators or Kaine.