Tire Tracks, Shoe Prints and DJH's cars

[Trackergd]

Trackergd - Taking a look at the bias ply scenario LE would have had a fairly accurate depiction on the width of the vehicle based on the remnants of the prints. One of the cars LE was looking for was an AMC Pacer or Gremlin. Both compacts would be about the same weight as a Volkswagen Beetle and were available from the factory with bias plys.

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The distance between centers for the tires would be easy to determine, which of thousands of vehicles...not so much. Each manufacturer tends to use the same platform (frame and drive train) for more than one badge brand and year. They can get a general idea, but as I noted before, this type of forensics was in its infancy and the FBI was still gathering data that now is just a keystroke away for them. The bias ply tires would have been a better indicator. After market or new on the vehicle from the factory. Wear and objects stuck in the tire would register in the print. Brand new tires would leave a very sharp impression and the sprue's from the molding process would be evident. I doubt SCSD would have had the resources to go chasing all this information and doing the research. Jacobs last print and the tire print are in softer ground...the layer of dust that forms on the surface of the gravel and dirt road, and in the older ruts.

 

[Sasquatch321]

The front of the print is deeper than the center, but not fast enough to push back a ridge, plate or plate fissure. Moving forward as climbing into a car.

If it's this easy to confirm from this picture that Jacob was put into a car, why did LE go on Cnn and to the world with a new theory that the abductor is local and on foot? Why not instead keep focusing on use of a car and not confusing the public?

 

[ELOCsoul]

The front of the print is deeper than the center, but not fast enough to push back a ridge, plate or plate fissure. Moving forward as climbing into a car.

When climbing into a car normally, one's feet are generally not pointing perpendicular to the car's tire path, they're typically at an angle and pivot as the person gets in the car. This print is clearly perpendicular to the car path. To me, this would seem to indicate that if this were Jacobs print, and the tire tracks belong to a vehicle he was put into, that he must have been pulled into the car. But if that were the case, wouldn't the print be more disheveled?

 

[Trackergd]

When climbing into a car normally, one's feet are generally not pointing perpendicular to the car's tire path, they're typically at an angle and pivot as the person gets in the car. This print is clearly perpendicular to the car path. To me, this would seem to indicate that if this were Jacobs print, and the tire tracks belong to a vehicle he was put into, that he must have been pulled into the car. But if that were the case, wouldn't the print be more disheveled?

You think this way as an adult. Think as a child. Watch a child climb into a vehicle. They face the door, get a grip on something (like the door armrest), put one foot up on the door ledge and pull themselves forward. In this case he may have been pulled or prodded forward.

 

[Trackergd]

If it's this easy to confirm from this picture that Jacob was put into a car, why did LE go on Cnn and to the world with a new theory that the abductor is local and on foot? Why not instead keep focusing on use of a car and not confusing the public?

Because it did not fit with the POI they were focusing on and they did not know about Kevin?

 

[Trackergd]

If it's this easy to confirm from this picture that Jacob was put into a car, why did LE go on Cnn and to the world with a new theory that the abductor is local and on foot? Why not instead keep focusing on use of a car and not confusing the public?

I forgot to note that there is no "lean" indicators in the print nor deeper spot near one side of the toe, so Jacob was not thinking about turning away and trying to run. There is also no "stutter" which would indicate hesitation.

 

[Sasquatch321]

You think this way as an adult. Think as a child. Watch a child climb into a vehicle. They face the door, get a grip on something (like the door armrest), put one foot up on the door ledge and pull themselves forward. In this case he may have been pulled or prodded forward.

Does an 11 year old kid generally still crawl into a vehicle like a six year old still might? It seems for sure he was pulled or pushed in, but why the definition of detail left behind in such a happening?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Because it did not fit with the POI they were focusing on and they did not know about Kevin?

The theory came out after Kevin came forward.

 

[human]

The distance between centers for the tires would be easy to determine, which of thousands of vehicles...not so much. Each manufacturer tends to use the same platform (frame and drive train) for more than one badge brand and year. They can get a general idea, but as I noted before, this type of forensics was in its infancy and the FBI was still gathering data that now is just a keystroke away for them. The bias ply tires would have been a better indicator. After market or new on the vehicle from the factory. Wear and objects stuck in the tire would register in the print. Brand new tires would leave a very sharp impression and the sprue's from the molding process would be evident. I doubt SCSD would have had the resources to go chasing all this information and doing the research. Jacobs last print and the tire print are in softer ground...the layer of dust that forms on the surface of the gravel and dirt road, and in the older ruts.

The FBI was there from Day 1. It was not just the county

 

[ELOCsoul]

You think this way as an adult. Think as a child. Watch a child climb into a vehicle. They face the door, get a grip on something (like the door armrest), put one foot up on the door ledge and pull themselves forward. In this case he may have been pulled or prodded forward.

OK, makes sense. But, if you put your foot up on the door ledge, wouldn't that be where the majority of your weight would go, and then why the deep impression on the toe in dirt?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Stay tuned, tonight I'll be sharing a new theory about the footprint and tire tracks that will turn it completely on its face.

 

[Jennifermn]

Would something like photo this make sense as to how Jacob may have entered a vehicle, with how the foot prints looked?

I'm a visual person. Trying to picture what Trackergd is describing.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Would something like photo this make sense as to how Jacob may have entered a vehicle, with how the foot prints looked?

I'm a visual person. Trying to picture what Trackergd is describing.

It shows how the front half of the shoe is the last print that will be left before lifting up and in, just like in our picture. And if it's an SUV he was put into, this could explain how the definition of the bottom of the shoe was left like it was, because he simply lifts the last leg straight up. It also shows how the last step would be so close to the tire track as it was. If he was put into a vehicle, then I think we are looking at a van, truck, suv type of vehicle like this one.

 

[Sasquatch321]

The shoeprint we have assumed to be Jacobs, may not be? The pictures of the shoeprint next to the tire track was saved from watching a news video, then zoomed and cropped. I believe it's only our assumption that the video is showing Jacobs print next to the tire track. It's not that the article, video, or anyone definitively said that we are looking at Jacobs footprint or if we are just looking at the tire tracks that were recovered.





Remember in this second pic how I tried to connect two footprints with the black boxes? But then Tinner later came in and said the one in the upper left is most likely Steve Munds? Well if that one is Steve Munds and I was able to connect it to the one we have been studying, how do we know the one we have been studying is not Steve Munds footprint again as well? Both of the footprints in the black boxes have a circle indentation within the print, confirming the same shoe. Did these pictures from a video always just have the intention of showing the tire tracks? Without explaining that Steve Munds footprints are all over the place?

 

[human]

If it is Jacob's print, where is the other one? Kid's stride is pretty short.

I think the print pics are a photo op.

 

[Sasquatch321]

If it is Jacob's print, where is the other one? Kid's stride is pretty short.

I think the print pics are a photo op.

It explains that there is no perp footprints around the one we assume to be jacobs as well. Because its only steve mund kneeling down there to examine and get his pictures of the tire tracks. Thats why the footprint is dug in, when an adult crouches, as he crouches hes going to twist his foot from left to right to gain leverage and be able to balance from that position to tske pictures.

 

[human]

It explains that there is no perp footprints around the one we assume to be jacobs as well. Because its only steve mund kneeling down there to examine and get his pictures of the tire tracks. Thats why the footprint is dug in, when an adult crouches, as he crouches hes going to twist his foot from left to right to gain leverage and be able to balance from that position to tske pictures.

I think you are right. I bet Jacob's footprints along with the perp's are in a super protected area. I think Mund is showing how they do it for a photo op.

Those tire tracks may have nothing to do with the tracks they were really looking at.

 

[human]

When I get up in the AM, I have a radio alarm clock. I listen to news prolonging the reality that it was time to get up for work.

Maybe I am different, but I think most people listen to TV or radio to hear news , get the weather report and some people like the noise of TV or radio.

If DR had anythng on, there would have been the news of what happened in his driveway.

He knew there was a search the night before. No curiosity whatsoever?

 

[StinkSprings]

Move your comments to the DR board please. This if for tire Tracks and Shoe Print discussion only. STOP trying to steer your loaded comments towards DR. This is exactly why these child boards were created.

When I get up in the AM, I have a radio alarm clock. I listen to news prolonging the reality that it was time to get up for work.

Maybe I am different, but I think most people listen to TV or radio to hear news , get the weather report and some people like the noise of TV or radio.

If DR had anythng on, there would have been the news of what happened in his driveway.

He knew there was a search the night before. No curiosity whatsoever?

 

[human]

Move your comments to the DR board please. This if for tire Tracks and Shoe Print discussion only. STOP trying to steer your loaded comments towards DR. This is exactly why these child boards were created.

(Stop telling posters what to think. Shaming is something that is very bad especially if you use it on your children. It is implicated in all kinds of mental health issues)

DR went down that driveway in the morning. I am wondering why he would do that and contaminate the crime scene. He has stated he helped to search so he knew about Jacob,

And as I stated above, I wonder if he did not hear about it on the news as well.