Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

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top secret military acoustic detection system designed to spot enemy submarines first heard what the U.S. Navy suspected was the Titan submersible implosion hours after the submersible began its voyage, officials involved in the search said.

The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance Sunday, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the Coast Guard commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

I’d like to know if the Navy contacted mothership Polar Prince with this information and if so, when.
 
This entire situation is a bit confusing, did they consider the craft a "passenger" sub? Or did they consider the sub a private craft, for "explorers" and employees of OceanGate? Is that way there was no review of safety procedures?

IMO, it’s my understanding that Rush got around regulations by only using it in International waters and by NOT having it flagged to any country.

Rush considered it to be ‘innovative’ and ahead of the regulations..got that from a YouTube interview with previous passenger.
 

Azmeh Dawood — the older sister of Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood — told NBC News that her nephew, Suleman, informed a relative that he “wasn’t very up for it” and felt “terrified” about the trip to explore the wreckage of the Titanic.

But the 19-year-old ended up going aboard OceanGate’s 22-foot submersible because the trip fell over Father’s Day weekend and he was eager to please his dad, who was passionate about the lore of the Titanic, according to Azmeh.
 
Sorry if this has already been discussed.


After the craft was reported missing, the U.S. Navy went back and analyzed its acoustic data and found an anomaly that was “consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior Navy official told The Associated Press on Thursday.
 
How is going on a tourist trip to see the Titanic wreck a "worthy cause"? I feel sympathy for them and their family and friends, but it was an adventure trip, done for a thrill.

I think he was speaking of his friends onboard who were the researchers and explorers... and I assume for them... it was a worthy cause to travel, learn and examine these rarely seen depths. Just guessing, of course.
 
NEW

Dawood family says they have been 'overwhelmed' with love and support​

We have just received a statement from the Dawood family, who are grieving after the loss of Shahzada Dawood, 48, and his son Suleman, 19.

Here is the full statement:

“Our thoughts are with the victims of this tragedy, one which has been followed around the world.
As with any tragedy of this magnitude, it brings out the best and worst in people.

Some go out of their way to contribute and support, others use these moments for personal gains. How one behaves in such circumstances reveals more about their own character than anything else.

The family remains overwhelmed with the love and support that it has received and is grateful to the those who showcased the best in humanity.”

 
Just watched director James Cameron on CNN talking about this tragedy. He is incredibly knowledgeable about submersibles, even has his own company. He didn't hold back regarding the cavalier attitude that the owner/designer/adventurer, Stockton Rush embodied who he thinks cut many corners in creating the submersibles for OceanGate. I think there are probably a lot of individuals involved in this type of technology probably who feel the same; that it could have been avoided. However he feels about the circumstances that caused this catastrophe he felt compassion for the loss of lives.

There is also a specialist on right now, who says there is no way to recover bodies since the bodies would have been annihilated, only minute particles of DNA would be left.

I can't imagine how the families on those on board feel trying to process all this technical information when referring to someone they love. Condolences to all. And brickbats to those disgusting individuals who are crowing about the deaths of the wealthy adventurers. Shame on them.
 
"I felt in my bones what had happened. For the sub's electronics to fail and its communication system to fail, and its tracking transponder to fail simultaneously - sub's gone."

Cameron told BBC News the past week has "felt like a prolonged and nightmarish charade where people are running around talking about banging noises and talking about oxygen and all this other stuff".

"I knew that sub was sitting exactly underneath its last known depth and position. That's exactly where they found it," he continued.

He added that once a remotely controlled underwater vehicle was deployed on Thursday, searchers "found it within hours, probably within minutes".
So why did oceangate wait 8 hours to report it?

I gave them the benefit of the doubt when I thought it was just the communication that was lost because that had happened many times previously. But come on, they knew its tracking, comms and electronics had failed and they STILL waited 8 hours to report it to the coast guard? WTF are they thinking?
 

2m ago
The family of Paul-Henri Nargeolet have also released a statement following the news describing French dive expert as an “extraordinary father and husband”.

The New York Times reports that the family thanked those involved in the search and rescue operation and gave their condolences to the family’s of the other men who died:

He is a man who will be remembered as one of the greatest deep-sea explorers in modern history. When you think of the Titanic and all we know about the ship today, you will think of Paul-Henri Nargeolet and his legendary work.
But what we will remember him most for is his big heart, his incredible sense of humor and how much he loved his family. We will miss him today and every day for the rest of our lives.”
 
Just watched director James Cameron on CNN talking about this tragedy. He is incredibly knowledgeable about submersibles, even has his own company. He didn't hold back regarding the cavalier attitude that the owner/designer/adventurer, Stockton Rush embodied who he thinks cut many corners in creating the submersibles for OceanGate. I think there are probably a lot of individuals involved in this type of technology probably who feel the same; that it could have been avoided. However he feels about the circumstances that caused this catastrophe he felt compassion for the loss of lives.

There is also a specialist on right now, who says there is no way to recover bodies since the bodies would have been annihilated, only minute particles of DNA would be left.

I can't imagine how the families on those on board feel trying to process all this technical information when referring to someone they love. Condolences to all. And brickbats to those disgusting individuals who are crowing about the deaths of the wealthy adventurers. Shame on them.
I can understand Mr. Cameron’s comments. IMO it’s possible to feel compassion and grief for the men who lost their lives and the families left behind to grieve and at the same time feel anger over circumstances that may have led to preventable deaths.

I’ve purposely stayed off social media but can imagine the storm blowing. I’m afraid it will get worse if it turns out that shoddy design directly caused the deaths. JMO
 
I’d like to know if the Navy contacted mothership Polar Prince with this information and if so, when.
The Navy relayed their information right away to an Incident Commander - not sure if this is Polar Prince.

"The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost," a senior U.S. Navy official told the Journal. "While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission."

 
If the us navy heard the implosion that was consistent with the last known area of the sub, as were now suddenly hearing, and they reported this immediately to the coast guard, what was the need for all the planes?l searching the size of Connecticut?
What was the need for the requests of various governments for more ships to the area? Ive got to echo james Cameron’s thoughts here and say it seems like a prolonged charade.
 
I can understand Mr. Cameron’s comments. IMO it’s possible to feel compassion and grief for the men who lost their lives and the families left behind to grieve and at the same time feel anger over circumstances that may have led to preventable deaths.

I’ve purposely stayed off social media but can imagine the storm blowing. I’m afraid it will get worse if it turns out that shoddy design directly caused the deaths. JMO
I think it's entirely possible to do both, but today is the day for compassion. The blame can come later.
 
Ditto I appreciated hearing them. I’ve had so much anxiety the last few days, can’t imagine what the families were feeling . Hopefully it helps to know they didn’t suffer.
I was right there stressing with you … thinking of how those people were so concerned about their diminishing air and “not even be able to talk about it” to conserve the remaining air and co2 emissions. I can’t imagine all that was going through their loved ones minds.

After listening to several doctors and educated people, it sounds like this was so quick and their minds couldn’t have even known of their immediate death. There may have been some creaking or other noise just before the implosion but that would also have been pretty quick.
 
I've seen so much lack of sympathy for those onboard just because they were wealthy.
(Not here! Other places online.)

Remember that we feel sorry for Icarus, despite his hubris.

We feel sorry for the Titanic passengers, we feel sorry for the Concorde passengers. I think they overused the words “billionaire” in the initial articles and the cost of the tickets. It doesn’t absolve such attitudes and comments, though.
If it imploded, the only things that are going to float back up would be exterior objects that were either buoyant or inherently hollow but high strength: Maybe an LED light or similar? MOO and Depends on how the periphery items came apart...

Did a little look into Titanium and Carbon Fiber. Titanium has about the same tensile and compressive yield strength as the better stainless steel alloys but is 40% of the weight, per unit volume. Problem is: its brittle at its ultimate strength. Carbon Fiber can be a made a lot of different ways but essentially consists of high strength fibers bound by some polymer; and weighs about 18% of steel. Either material is "elongation brittle" in material terms: carbon fiber samples fracture at around 3 to 4% strain and high grade titanium at less than 3%.

SO: Here's how a ductile (Mild Steel) horizontal cylinder implodes at low pressure differences....pretty quick for the cylinder portion, the heads at each end near survive. Consider though: when the collapse occurs, the reduction in volume of the containment would cause the internal pressure to increase, thus the pressure difference decreases....


With the infinite volume and depth of the ocean: the rise in internal pressure would occur in the order of 1/900 of a second and with brittle material, the cylinder would collapse inward and fracture. Should it occur that there was some air trapped at one spot, there would be a second collapse as that air pocket condensed...presuming the hull was ruptured by the first collapse, the pieces may or may not be dislodged or otherwise effected by the second collapse.

I would guess thought that some pieces of carbon fiber would be projected and spread around. Whereas I believe the titanium heads may be distorted but largely recognizable.

MOO and I'm sure some images will be forthcoming.

Well in the old country and mom being a psysicist, we had a titanium pail. Light, not rusting and the water out of it tasted nicely. But sooner or later someone kicked it and made sort on indentation. I would say, great material for rings but not for a submersible.
 
Yeah. Crew members don’t pay for a space, but paid passengers do.

I figure that since OceanGate was a registered non-profit, that the passengers could call it a "donation to science," as it was "raising money for research." Like a charitable donation where the big donors get an experience prize (backstage at the theater! meeting the conductor! getting to go 13,000 feet down to the Titanic!)

The passengers were then "trained" as crew and co-researchers. The research was "on the state of the Titanic."

This is just another way that Rush had of thumbing his nose at regulations and ordinary practices. The Titan, itself, was never bought or sold nor given any kind regular registration in any nation. It's not yet clear if the craft was registered as a craft, anywhere. The Polar Prince was, of course, "hosting" a gadget. It did not need to be certified as a passenger vessel, according to Rush, because it was a gadget used for research in the ocean. So he skirted all kinds of regulations - and even hinted to potential passengers that the Titan had in fact been inspected (see upthread).

So, they weren't "passengers." They were donors and crew. The Titan wasn't a seagoing vessel, it was a DIY project attached to a (registered) ship.

I believe Polar Prince is registered to Canada.

The way in which the rules for this voyage were constructed gave the "crew" only a small bottle of water, no ability to stand up (one of the methods for raising the sub involved having to stand up - so it bothers me that certain pundits keep saying it was "equipped" with 7 methods of rising - it wasn't!

Two were unavailable (balloon and standing up and tilting craft to get it untangled and/or remove ballast). Apparently the total time frame was 8 hours, crew were encouraged not do eat the night before/day of (great way to handicap the brain's best functioning). 19 year old was pressured to go, but scared. No intake interview for this "scientific expedition" (a real scientific expedition funded by any credible grant would involve much more rigorous selection of "crew"). Each trip needed to be treated as we treat manned space missions (governmental oversight, many levels; juried publications; many observers; tons of caution and still things go wrong).

The reporter who keeps appearing on my screen telling me "they had 7 ways of getting up" is driving me crazy.

Because I do not believe they had a verified method of using salt (!) or pipes strapped to the bottom of the Titan (!) which had to be released...mechanically? electrically? Either could fail. We see no salt bags on this craft in the video of it being prepped to enter the water. (Maybe someone can locate them?)

So THREE of the methods were unavailable and the fourth relied on mechanical integrity. Indeed, all methods had something that could go wrong.

But the real problem was those "stress sensors" (that experts say could never have worked to set off an alarm that the Titan was about to implode).

And that makes me put CEO Rush into the same category as many criminals, whose fantasies of "success" at something take over their minds, clouding their reason and making them, really, fairly insane. I do understand that "Safety Third" is a thing and if all the participants had had the knowledge of the French scientist, I wouldn't be typing this. That 19 year old never had a chance. Family dynamics meets crazy rich DIYer with hubris.

My heart goes out to the mother and aunt of Sulemon, who spent 19 years growing up and trying to understand the ordinary world he lived in, then was induced to take this trip as (IMO) an emotional power move. My heart goes out to the family of Nargeolet, but from what I'm hearing in French news, his grandkids were pretty much resigned to/ready for this kind of outcome, given what he was interested in doing.

imo
 
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