Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[ifindedout]

No. Just no. Let them rest in peace. MOO

Can the bodies from the Titanic sub be recovered following the ‘catastrophic implosion’?

The four tourists, including two billionaires, and the CEO of OceanGate Expeditions were all killed when the submersible suffered a “catastrophic implosion,” the US Coast Guard announced Thursday.…

nypost.com

It is unclear when the powerful underwater implosion occurred during the Titan’s journey to the wreckage 12,500 feet below the ocean’s surface — but due to the nature of the disaster, recovery efforts are extremely difficult.

“This is an incredibly unforgiving environment down there on the sea floor and the debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel,” Rear Adm. John Mauger of the US Coast Guard said at a press conference Thursday.

 

[LadyL]

Very good interview with Cameron. At 3:00 he says he heard the vessel dropped it's weights 200 meters above the ocean floor. The only way they could know that is if they had called that in, that they were ascending. He thinks they had warning.

oh no

 

[10ofRods]

I'm hoping we can get more information on all of this, including current locations of the weights.

JMVHO.

I predict there will be an excruciatingly thorough report on this by the Coast Guard, assisted by others including the DofD and the Navy.

And if there were weights jettisoned, they'll know.

I do not believe the little robot found jettisoned weights, but it's possibly suppressed by the CG (I guess).

I am an extreme doubter.

 

[arielilane]

The filmmaker, who has made more than 30 dives to the wreckage of the Titanic, said he knew an "extreme catastrophic event" had happened as soon as he heard the submersible had lost navigation and communications during its descent.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672306526973730827

https://twitter.com/WTHRcom

'Titanic' director James Cameron says he knew days ago missing sub imploded

“Titanic” director James Cameron told the BBC he "knew the truth on Monday morning" that the submersible imploded.

www.wthr.com

Updated: 2:25 PM EDT June 23, 2023

LONDON, UK — “Titanic” director James Cameron says the search operation for a deep-sea tourist sub turned into a “nightmarish charade” that prolonged the agony of the families of the passengers.

Cameron told the BBC in an interview broadcast on Friday that he "felt in my bones” that the Titan submersible had been lost soon after he heard it had lost contact with the surface during its descent to the wreckage of the ocean liner at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

He said focus in the media over the next few days about the submersible having 96 hours of oxygen supply — and that banging noises had been heard — were a “prolonged and nightmarish charade.”

“That was just a cruel, slow turn of the screw for four days as far as I’m concerned,” he said. "Because I knew the truth on Monday morning.”

 

[ch_13]

A three part series from a journalist who was a part of the Titan mission from May which was scrubbed. He met Rush, Harding and Nargeolet while he was on the Polar Prince for eight days:

Mission Titanic, Part 1: Preparing to dive

Editor in chief Arnie Weissmann was on an OceanGate Expeditions mission to the Titanic in May. Things didn't go as planned. The first installment of his experiences.

www.travelweekly.com

Mission Titanic, Part 2: Delays and an unsettling statement from the OceanGate CEO

Editor in chief Arnie Weissmann this past week has thought a great deal about a conversation in May with OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, one of five people missing on the submersible in the North Atlantic.

www.travelweekly.com

Mission Titanic, part 3: Trouble ahead, trouble behind

A week at sea with OceanGate Expeditions in an attempt to take the Titan submersible to see the Titanic.

www.travelweekly.com

It's a long read, but pretty interesting. A few notable items.

• The author said his mission specialist role "involved being a gofer and completing tasks that could be explained in less than a minute" although others had more difficult tasks.
• Last year, "something went wrong putting the sub back onto the Horizon Arctic, and the Titan bobbed overnight on the sea...It was pretty rough on the people inside."
• As noted elsewhere, Rush claimed the carbon fiber was bought "at a big discount from Boeing because it was past its shelf-life for use in airplanes."
• "On the fourth day of the mission, when the seas were most active and fog was the thickest, a near-disaster for the sub and platform occurred: At the end of the rope that linked the stern of the ship to the platform...the front of the platform and the sub were underwater." The sub was eventually righted, although it wasn't 100% clear what caused the issue.
• "This was the first season that the Titan was being towed behind its support ship rather than being kept on its deck. [The author thought] the sub and platform were being tossed around pretty roughly on a daily basis."
• The author said they would have felt comfortable boarding the sub despite the issues they saw because of the presence of an experienced diver like Nargeolet.

 

[Sundog]

Serious question because I have no knowledge about this kind of stuff. But would a document releasing someone from liability due to negligence actually hold up in court?

I’ve never seen or heard of anything like that. (Of course, like most people, I don’t read every waiver I ever sign from top to bottom)

Seems very slimy to me to put something like that in a waiver. MOO

I agree, I am not a lawyer, but I wonder if a court would find such a clause in a contract to be legally unconscionable.

 

[JennieM]

24 min ago

US Coast Guard will lead investigation into Titan submersible incident, NTSB says​

The US Coast Guard will lead the investigation into the Titan submersible incident, the National Transportation Safety Board tweeted Friday evening.

“The U.S. Coast Guard has declared the loss of the Titan submersible to be a major marine casualty and will lead the investigation,” the NTSB tweeted. “The NTSB has joined the investigation and will contribute to their efforts. The USCG is handling all media inquiries related to this investigation.”

CNN reported earlier Friday that the Transportation Safety Board of Canada is launching an investigation into the implosion of the Titan.

CNN has reached out to that agency to see how and if they will be working with officials in the United States on this investigation.

June 23, 2023 - Missing Titanic sub crew killed after 'catastrophic implosion'

Investigators continue to scour the ocean floor for debris as they try to establish the timeline and circumstances of the Titan's fatal final voyage.

edition.cnn.com

 

[crhedBngr]

I predict there will be an excruciatingly thorough report on this by the Coast Guard, assisted by others including the DofD and the Navy.

And if there were weights jettisoned, they'll know.

I do not believe the little robot found jettisoned weights, but it's possibly suppressed by the CG (I guess).

I am an extreme doubter.

RBBM

You and I both!

JMVHO.

 

[crhedBngr]

The filmmaker, who has made more than 30 dives to the wreckage of the Titanic, said he knew an "extreme catastrophic event" had happened as soon as he heard the submersible had lost navigation and communications during its descent.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672306526973730827

https://twitter.com/WTHRcom

'Titanic' director James Cameron says he knew days ago missing sub imploded

“Titanic” director James Cameron told the BBC he "knew the truth on Monday morning" that the submersible imploded.

www.wthr.com

Updated: 2:25 PM EDT June 23, 2023

LONDON, UK — “Titanic” director James Cameron says the search operation for a deep-sea tourist sub turned into a “nightmarish charade” that prolonged the agony of the families of the passengers.

Cameron told the BBC in an interview broadcast on Friday that he "felt in my bones” that the Titan submersible had been lost soon after he heard it had lost contact with the surface during its descent to the wreckage of the ocean liner at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

He said focus in the media over the next few days about the submersible having 96 hours of oxygen supply — and that banging noises had been heard — were a “prolonged and nightmarish charade.”

“That was just a cruel, slow turn of the screw for four days as far as I’m concerned,” he said. "Because I knew the truth on Monday morning.”

RBBM

Well, maybe Mr. Cameron knew the truth, but I believe the Families and Friends of the five Titan occupants needed to know the truth as well.

Titan's structural failure had to be verified; she had to be found. Otherwise, she may have drifted off into obscurity, and her occupants may have suffered more difficult deaths.

As awful as this event was, I believe it was very, very quick. Hopefully, they never knew what happened.

JMVHO.

 

[10ofRods]

No. Just no. Let them rest in peace. MOO

It is unclear when the powerful underwater implosion occurred during the Titan’s journey to the wreckage 12,500 feet below the ocean’s surface — but due to the nature of the disaster, recovery efforts are extremely difficult.

“This is an incredibly unforgiving environment down there on the sea floor and the debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel,” Rear Adm. John Mauger of the US Coast Guard said at a press conference Thursday.

Their relatives might want to spend the money. Hard to say. Many could call it a waste of resources, but the wealthy have always put more money into funerary expenses.

Me? I'd want my family members to be in the place they so longed to be, to the point where they did not heed subtle or even moderately clear warnings.

IMO. People can be fanatics.

 

[10ofRods]

Serious question because I have no knowledge about this kind of stuff. But would a document releasing someone from liability due to negligence actually hold up in court?

I’ve never seen or heard of anything like that. (Of course, like most people, I don’t read every waiver I ever sign from top to bottom)

Seems very slimy to me to put something like that in a waiver. MOO

Depends on jurisdiction. In California. No. No way. First thing I was taught when working for a plaintiff's firm. "You cannot sign away a right." No liability waiver EVER allows people to kill you/let you die due to undisclosed risks OR negligence. That's why doctors and hospitals have huge insurance policies (and usually settle without admitting guilt - which is often best for everyone, just has to be negotiated).

In this case, anyone with standing could sue. But who would they sue? The potential regulatory agencies that failed? There's no company to sue. OceanGate is gone (and was a non-profit to boot). Governments and so on could be sued (and would likely settle without admitting liability, etc, etc).

IMO.

 

[BeachSky]

I agree, I am not a lawyer, but I wonder if a court would find such a clause in a contract to be legally unconscionable.

He said: "The waiver issue will be hotly contested on all sides, as it always is. Many states do not hold up these types of waivers in most circumstances. My state [Georgia] is one of them. So it will be an issue of what law applies as this could be a maritime law situation.

Titan sub death waiver to be "hotly contested" over safety concerns—lawyer

One former Titan passenger said he signed a waiver that mentioned "death three times on page one."

www.newsweek.com

What role will liability waivers play in the aftermath of the Titan sub tragedy?

The five passengers on the fatal submersible trip to the Titanic wreckage site were likely asked to sign liability waivers

abcnews.go.com

If the law of the Bahamas is not favorable to the families, then I predict they will bring a lawsuit in the United States or their home countries,” said Kenneth Abraham, the Harrison Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of Virginia School of Law, who is aware of the waiver's terms. Declaring the waiver to be invalid in the U.S. could then become part of the legal argument, he said.

But Steve Flynn, a retired Coast Guard officer and director of Northeastern University’s Global Resilience Institute, said possible lawsuits might not succeed given the challenges of establishing jurisdiction.
The implosion happened “basically in a regulatory no man’s land,” Flynn said.

 

[Recidivist]

I would agree with this. Typically, waivers are very effective. But not always. And in this case I don't think they will protect the company. You have to waive known risks. Did these passengers fully know that the sub was not certified or fully tested? Who knows. There may be information out there to answer that one way or the other. But I really think it is likely irrelevant. Ocean Gate will probably quickly file for bankruptcy. I doubt there is much in the way of actual assets. This particular sub is destroyed, I think there was another, is that correct? But has little value other than parts. There are probably some operating accounts and some equipment, but I doubt that is worth much. Hopefully some insurance but those limits will be miniscule related to the claims of the deceased. Maybe there are other entities that could be reached or individuals. Stockton Rush's personal assets could be reached perhaps. But also keep in mind there are likely other creditors, people or businesses owed money in the regular course. Regardless, Ocean Gate is finished. I wonder how many people it employed.

I read that the OceanGate established the company in the Bermuda's. Would Bermuda and its laws have jurisdiction over claims against the company?

 

[Sincerely]

The more that I read about the CEO, the more I think about Elizabeth Holmes. I may be totally off base and if so, I’m sure someone here will enlighten me. It’s no doubt that he was intelligent and skilled. I was already having some thoughts like this but reading the texts between him and JB really took my mind there.

Millionaire says OceanGate CEO offered him discount tickets on sub to Titanic, claimed it was safer than scuba diving

The seats Jay Bloom and his son turned down went instead to Shahzada Dawood and his 19-year-old son, who both died when the sub imploded.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[tarabull]

How much did the search for the missing Titan sub cost?

The massive international effort by aircraft, surface ships and deep-sea robots began Sunday when the Titan was reported missing.

www.1news.co.nz

ETA:
Snipped...
...Some agencies can seek reimbursements. But the US Coast Guard — whose bill alone will hit the millions of dollars — is generally prohibited by federal law from collecting reimbursement pertaining to any search or rescue service, said Stephen Koerting, a US attorney in Maine who specialises in maritime law.

 

[Snail-Overlord]

The more that I read about the CEO, the more I think about Elizabeth Holmes. I may be totally off base and if so, I’m sure someone here will enlighten me. It’s no doubt that he was intelligent and skilled. I was already having some thoughts like this but reading the texts between him and JB really took my mind there.

Millionaire says OceanGate CEO offered him discount tickets on sub to Titanic, claimed it was safer than scuba diving

The seats Jay Bloom and his son turned down went instead to Shahzada Dawood and his 19-year-old son, who both died when the sub imploded.

www.cbsnews.com

I thought the same thing.

Another (more gruesome) comparison I thought of is Dr. Walter Freeman, aka the lobotomy guy. Not the same thing at all, but a very similar attitude. He apparently disliked using PPE while performing lobotomies and referred to safety precautions as “all that germ crap”

 

[BeachSky]

What a cluster IMO

What caused the Titan to implode? Right now, it’s not even clear who will lead the investigation

A day after revelations that the Titan submersible imploded, officials searched the ocean floor for evidence and grappled Friday with vexing questions about who is responsible for investigating the…

www.wboy.com

It was not entirely clear Friday who would have the authority to lead what is sure to be a complex investigation involving several countries. OceanGate Expeditions, the company that owned and operated the Titan, is based in the U.S., but the submersible was registered in the Bahamas. OceanGate is based in Everett, Washington, but closed when the Titan was found. Meanwhile, the Titan’s mother ship, the Polar Prince, is from Canada, and the people on board the submersible were from England, Pakistan, France, and the U.S.

 

[crhedBngr]

Reverifying that Titan communicated via "text messages" with its Mother Ship (the Polar Prince).

With no GPS underwater, Titan communicated with its mother ship by text messages, and the submersible is required to communicate every 15 minutes, according to OceanGate Expeditions’ archived website. The last communication between the vessel and the Polar Prince came in at 11:47 a.m. Sunday.

If these are released to the Public, they should be interesting.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/21/us/inside-missing-titan-submersible-titanic-tour/index.html

ETA: I'm wondering if they used the following App to communicate:

Underwater messaging app for smartphones​

Date:August 29, 2022Source:University of WashingtonSummary:Researchers have developed AquaApp, a mobile app for acoustic-based communication and networking underwater that can be used with existing devices such as smartphones and smartwatches.

Underwater messaging app for smartphones

JMVHO.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Since the very beginning I’ve thought this company was beyond sketchy and was clearly trying to circumvent all regulations — the fact that they are registered in the Bahamas (but evidently not the US) despite being a US-based company and not actually doing any business in the Bahamas speaks volumes about how they’ve insulated themselves from accountability (legal, regulatory, or otherwise) from day one. It’s disgraceful and appalling. MOO.

As a side note, and maybe this has already been mentioned, but that’s the reason most cruise ships that you might come across are registered in the Bahamas, even if the majority of their business comes from North America and and they are home ported in, for example, Miami or Port Canaveral.

Otherwise they would have to abide by US labor laws. (Which in turn would price cruises out of the reach of even the dwindling middle class, and so it goes.)

 

[Recidivist]

I read that the OceanGate established the company in the Bermuda's. Would Bermuda and its laws have jurisdiction over claims against the company?

Nevermind. I found my answer a few pages back. Thanks!