Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

[crhedBngr]

That’s what I’ve been asking. I don’t understand how he knows this. All I can imagine is that he believes the hull sensors sounded early enough to give the passengers some time to try and surface.

There was a rumor about Titan sending a distress signal but apparently it wasn’t proven, based on a post upthread.

Here’s Cameron’s quote:

Cameron told ABC News that he believes the Titan's hull began to crack under pressure, and that its inside sensors gave the passengers a warning to that effect.

"We understand from inside the community that they had dropped their ascent weights and they were coming up, trying to manage an emergency," he said.

James Cameron says the Titan passengers probably knew the submersible was in trouble

The <em>Titanic</em> director has made 33 dives to the shipwreck and visited ocean depths in a submersible he built himself. He compares OceanGate to the Titanic in that both ignored safety warnings.

www.wbur.org

Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

The problem, IMO, isn’t the inherent danger of going on an underwater excursion. It’s the fact that OceanGate didn’t have the proper equipment to safely complete such an excursion I posted a little ways back that I hadn’t realized how many manned dives (in submersibles, I mean) had been...

www.websleuths.com

RBBM

With all of the corner-cutting, I wonder if those inside sensors were even working.

Frightening.

JMVHO.

 

[iamshadow21]

That is... not good.

In my experience, many materials are perfectly fine past their use-by date, but the reason for the use-by date is one of liability and guaranteed performance. The manufacturer isn't responsible for material failure if you use it past its shelf life and it doesn't perform as expected. Their response to any complaints would simply be: Past its shelf life, your problem.

If this is accurate, it means OceanGate saved a few bucks by making the most integral part of the whole system out of cut-price materials which were possibly no longer within their original specifications.

So, so stupid. Ugh. That really is indefensible.

Makes me wonder if we're going to find out the titanium fell off the back of a lorry, next...

MOO

 

[Gardenista]

Per the New York Times:



OceanGate Was Warned of Potential for ‘Catastrophic’ Problems With Titanic Mission

I wonder if OG updated their waiver after this because it definitely says it's experimental

 

[JDG]

Transportation Safety Board of Canada to investigate Polar Prince role in Titan implosion

The Transportation Safety Board of Canada will investigate a Canadian support ship's role in the catastrophic implosion of the Titan submersible.

toronto.citynews.ca

TSB to investigate the role of the Polar Prince.

 

[Sundog]

I would agree with this. Typically, waivers are very effective. But not always. And in this case I don't think they will protect the company. You have to waive known risks. Did these passengers fully know that the sub was not certified or fully tested? Who knows. There may be information out there to answer that one way or the other. But I really think it is likely irrelevant. Ocean Gate will probably quickly file for bankruptcy. I doubt there is much in the way of actual assets. This particular sub is destroyed, I think there was another, is that correct? But has little value other than parts. There are probably some operating accounts and some equipment, but I doubt that is worth much. Hopefully some insurance but those limits will be miniscule related to the claims of the deceased. Maybe there are other entities that could be reached or individuals. Stockton Rush's personal assets could be reached perhaps. But also keep in mind there are likely other creditors, people or businesses owed money in the regular course. Regardless, Ocean Gate is finished. I wonder how many people it employed.

I hope OceanGate Expeditions was set up as an LLC so that Rush's widow isn't harmed by any lawsuit and that their personal assets remain untouched for her sake.

 

[Cool Cats]

That is... not good.

In my experience, many materials are perfectly fine past their use-by date, but the reason for the use-by date is one of liability and guaranteed performance. The manufacturer isn't responsible for material failure if you use it past its shelf life and it doesn't perform as expected. Their response to any complaints would simply be: Past its shelf life, your problem.

If this is accurate, it means OceanGate saved a few bucks by making the most integral part of the whole system out of cut-price materials which were possibly no longer within their original specifications.

So, so stupid. Ugh. That really is indefensible.

I see your a new member, welcome.
I learn alot from your posts, thanks.

These articles go into micro detail about being involved as a passenger of OceanGate.

• Arnie Weissmann, the editor in chief of Travel Weekly, said he was set to travel on the Titan sub.
• After weather prevented it, he voiced concern over where OceanGate's CEO said he sourced materials from.
• Only one thing concerned me: He said he had gotten the carbon fiber used to make the Titan at a big discount from Boeing because it was past its shelf-life for use in airplanes.

Mission Titanic, Part 1: Preparing to dive

Editor in chief Arnie Weissmann was on an OceanGate Expeditions mission to the Titanic in May. Things didn't go as planned. The first installment of his experiences.

www.travelweekly.com

Mission Titanic, Part 2: Delays and an unsettling statement from the OceanGate CEO

Editor in chief Arnie Weissmann this past week has thought a great deal about a conversation in May with OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, one of five people missing on the submersible in the North Atlantic.

www.travelweekly.com

Mission Titanic, part 3: Trouble ahead, trouble behind

A week at sea with OceanGate Expeditions in an attempt to take the Titan submersible to see the Titanic.

www.travelweekly.com

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush (right) invited Travel Weekly editor in chief Arnie Weissmann to join him in smoking cigars on the stern of the ship one night.

Crew on a dinghy reach for equipment that might help raise the nose of the platform. OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, in a black scuba suit, sits at the rear.

However, the front of the platform was so far under water that the buoy could not be forced under it and only the edges of the flotation bags could provide minimal lift.

The divers went under the platform and got the water out and the air back in, and it was once again level. The entire process took more than half the day.

 

[fred&edna]

PDF link to OG waiver (again)

https://dam.tmz.com/document/b1/o/2023/06/22/b106a285e72448c3a7aef771402ffff0.pdf

 

[iamshadow21]

I hope OceanGate Expeditions was set up as an LLC so that Rush's widow isn't harmed by any lawsuit and that their personal assets remain untouched for her sake.

She's a director in the company, she may have her own personal role in this besides being the wife of the late CEO she has to explain. She'll have to get very good lawyers.

MOO

 

[MsMarple]

We keep hearing about OceanGate executives but only really read about Stockton Rush’s decisions. Was he running the company alone? What about his co-founder? What about the directors? One was even his own wife.

Wouldn’t the executives need to sign off on at least some of the decisions? This is not to disparage any of them but rather a simple question: How much did the other people involved in OceanGate participate when making critical decisions?

 

[PrairieWind]

I hope OceanGate Expeditions was set up as an LLC so that Rush's widow isn't harmed by any lawsuit and that their personal assets remain untouched for her sake.

I see no "Oceangate Expeditions." But OceanGate, INC, is a Washington corporation in Rush's name.

ETA, I seen now OceanGate Expeditions was a Bahamian company. But who actually owned the sub?

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Makes me wonder if we're going to find out the titanium fell off the back of a lorry, next...

MOO

I just don't know what to say if this is true. The carbon fiber hull was never a good idea, IMO, but if the materials weren't even guaranteed to be within specification...

When making something like a plane or a deep sea submersible, specifications matter. There's a reason Boeing sells carbon fiber off cheaply once it is past its shelf life: they can no longer guarantee performance, and in the event of failure the manufacturer would be blameless and all liability would fall on Boeing.

For 99.9% of projects this out-of-date carbon fiber would perform beautifully, but a submersible hull subjected to 6000psi of pressure is not a normal project. If this story is true, and if the implosions turns out to have been caused by a failure of the carbon fiber, IMO OceanGate will have no defense whatsoever.

 

[JDG]

Looks like the bottom line is the bottom line.

Esp after seeing how hard he tried to get the first father/son to sign up against their better judgement.

 

[JDG]

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush DISMISSED fears about doomed Titanic sub

The CEO of OceanGate's Titan submersible shrugged off safety concerns over the doomed vessel, according to newly unearthed email exchanges.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[heavenly2012]

Those poor people had no idea they were walking into a death trap. Like in Jurassic Park: your scientists were so busy wondering if you could no one wondered if you should.

 

[iamshadow21]

I just don't know what to say if this is true. The carbon fiber hull was never a good idea, IMO, but if the materials weren't even guaranteed to be within specification...

When making something like a plane or a deep sea submersible, specifications matter. There's a reason Boeing sells carbon fiber off cheaply once it is past its shelf life: they can no longer guarantee performance, and in the event of failure the manufacturer would be blameless and all liability would fall on Boeing.

For 99.9% of projects this out-of-date carbon fiber would perform beautifully, but a submersible hull subjected to 6000psi of pressure is not a normal project. If this story is true, and if the implosions turns out to have been caused by a failure of the carbon fiber, IMO OceanGate will have no defense whatsoever.

This vessel was always a game of Russian Roulette. They could have imploded on the first dive, or the twentieth, but it was always going to do it. But they just kept coming back up, and so they'd spin the cylinder of that revolver and go down again with another crop of 'citizen scientists'. Unfortunately, you can only play chicken with the deep sea so many times and live to surface.

MOO

 

[Gardenista]

More patent info

US Patent for Systems and methods for launching and recovering objects in aquatic environments; platforms for aquatic launch and recovery Patent (Patent # 10,259,540 issued April 16, 2019) - Justia Patents Search

Systems and methods for launching and retrieving payloads in aquatic environments employ a platform that is both floatable and submersible at the discretion of and/or under the control of a user, on which submersible objects to be launched, delivered to a subsea location and/or retrieved (the...

patents.justia.com

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The Titan was a ticking time bomb and nobody knew it. very sad.

Seems like plenty of people in the industry knew it. All those who would’ve liked to go and could afford to go, for various reasons did not go.

A few have spoken up already, there will be others, and even more who won’t denounce OceanGate publicly out of loyalty.

 

[MsMarple]

The office of OceanGate, the company manning the deep-sea vessel that vanished on its way to the Titanic wreckage, has closed indefinitely, according to the Port of Everett, where OceanGate is a tenant.

The Port said in a statement Thursday the OceanGate office would remain closed on the same day the U.S. Coast Guard confirmed that the submersible carrying five people to the Titanic had imploded near the site of the shipwreck and killed everyone on board.

OceanGate office in Everett closed indefinitely following CEO death – The Seattle Times

 

[Sundog]

The truth is that very few manned submersibles go down to the Titanic anymore. It was common from the 80s through to the early 2000s, but from about 2005 until about 2019 (my dates might be slightly off) there wasn't a single known manned visit to the wreck. Everything was done with Remotely Operated Vehicles aka ROVs.

For people who desperately want to visit the wreck, options are limited--the Titan was pretty much the only sub that still went down there. That means no matter how high the risk, there are some who would have chosen to take it.

There is one operator of submersibles who goes down to the Titanic still, with passengers, and he has been on quite a few of the MSM shows this past week. Deeply saddened by the Titan loss of lives, and also deeply concerned about the fact that hte Titan was not certified as his submersible(s) are. In fact, this owner/operator took his 12 year old son with him on his certified submersible and said that his son is in the Guinness book of Wolrd Records as the youngest person to go down in a submersible dive to the Titanic.

I don't have his name, but will see if I can find one of his interviews with MSM during this past week. He strongly believes in certification and doing things the right way (testing, etc.).

 

[Cool Cats]

OceanGate even protected against 'negligence' by company

'I hereby assume full responsibility for the risk of bodily injury, disability, death, and property damage due to the negligence of [OceanGate],' the document states.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The three-page document makes eight references to 'death' and also asks the signatory to take 'full responsibility' for the risk of death - even if the company was negligent.