Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[fred&edna]

I would think the propulsion or hydraulic device/system had the greatest pull (so to speak) on any and all power sources. Maybe this had something to do with implosion, also?

 

[x44]

As well as being shredded they would also have been incinerated.
The Gas equation PV=NRT means that as the pressure increases so must the temperature of the gas contained. So at the bottom a rise to 6000 psi would mean a temperature of the now compressed air would be around 8000 Deg C.
You see the opposite effect when you use a lot of a propane cylinder via a gas torch. the pressure inside decreases so too does the temperature. The cylinder case get significantly colder and if the air around is humid it starts condensing on the cylinder and ice often forms.

So I reckon that the "presumed" bit means they have some bits of burnt squashed mess/something adhering to a wall somewhere and said - maybe that is part of their remains: it will be a DNA job only.

 

[MsMarple]

The OceanGate Expeditions site is still up and advertising next year’s dives.

Interesting reading about how the expeditions work. From the site:

Once the submersible is launched you will begin to see alienlike lifeforms whizz by the viewport as you sink deeper and deeper into the ocean. The descent takes approximately two hours but it feels like the blink of an eye. You may assist the pilot with coms and tracking, take notes for the science team about what you see outside of the viewport, watch a movie or eat lunch. There is a private toilet at the front of the sub if nature calls.

It sounds idyllic, more like a ride on a tour bus past Hollywood celebrities’ homes than a dive two and a half miles deep into the ocean.

OceanGate Expeditions

oceangateexpeditions.com

ETA: The site just went down. I hope I didn’t break it…

 

[fred&edna]

The OceanGate Expeditions site is still up and advertising next year’s dives.

Interesting reading about how the expeditions work. From the site:

Once the submersible is launched you will begin to see alienlike lifeforms whizz by the viewport as you sink deeper and deeper into the ocean. The descent takes approximately two hours but it feels like the blink of an eye. You may assist the pilot with coms and tracking, take notes for the science team about what you see outside of the viewport, watch a movie or eat lunch. There is a private toilet at the front of the sub if nature calls.

It sounds idyllic, more like a ride on a tour bus past Hollywood celebrities’ homes than a dive two and a half miles deep into the ocean.

OceanGate Expeditions

oceangateexpeditions.com

Almost, too good to be true.

 

[crhedBngr]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC.

It matches the recovered part with its placement on the Titan.

What Titan sub wreckage can tell us about the tragedy

JMVHO.

 

[Kingsley]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC.

It matches the recovered part with its placement on the Titan.

What Titan sub wreckage can tell us about the tragedy

JMVHO.

The wires and cables in the rear equipment bay show no signs of electrical fire. Assuming (no idea for sure) that the batteries were in this part of the sub, it might rule out the batteries as a source of failure.

 

[fred&edna]

The wires and cables in the rear equipment bay show no signs of electrical fire. Assuming (no idea for sure) that the batteries were in this part of the sub, it might rule out the batteries as a source of failure.

Very true. Maybe it really is all about the hull with the RTM alarm sounding per this info.

In defending its decision not to have the Titan classed, the company highlighted what it said were safety innovations onboard, including “carbon fiber pressure vessels and a real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring system”.

Titanic submersible: documents reveal multiple concerns raised over safety of vessel

A 2018 letter from industry leaders urged OceanGate to have its Titan sub classed by an independent agency

www.theguardian.com

 

[Kingsley]

Very true. Maybe it really is all about the hull with the RTM alarm sounding per this info.

In defending its decision not to have the Titan classed, the company highlighted what it said were safety innovations onboard, including “carbon fiber pressure vessels and a real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring system”.

Titanic submersible: documents reveal multiple concerns raised over safety of vessel

A 2018 letter from industry leaders urged OceanGate to have its Titan sub classed by an independent agency

www.theguardian.com

I wonder if the RTM system was the acoustic microphones that warn when cracking occurs, which the experts claimed would be too late. Interesting.

 

[LinasK]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC.

It matches the recovered part with its placement on the Titan.

What Titan sub wreckage can tell us about the tragedy

That article explains really well where the pieces we are seeing brought up were on the submersible.

 

[iamshadow21]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC.

It matches the recovered part with its placement on the Titan.

What Titan sub wreckage can tell us about the tragedy

JMVHO.

That's an incredibly useful article.

I had personally thought a piece jutting out from the mangled remains of the debris piece with all the wires looked like it could be the antenna (didn't know it was an antenna, but the black sticky-outy bit on all the publicity stills), but I wasn't sure enough to say it yesterday. Nice to have it confirmed.

MOO

 

[fred&edna]

Would the pressure/cracking of the hull cause the slow ascent? Or hull fissures in combo with other events? And, why did it take a few attempts to jettison the frame. (This is such a tragic case to learn about submersibles). I hope the experts find the answers.

 

[MsMarple]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC.

It matches the recovered part with its placement on the Titan.

What Titan sub wreckage can tell us about the tragedy

JMVHO.

Wow, what a thorough explanation of the recovered pieces. Thanks for the link!

I had been curious about the viewport but now it’s clear that it’s gone. Wouldn’t it be crazy if the carbon fiber hull held and it was the failure of the viewport that caused the implosion?

Or maybe it shattered as the result of the implosion. Hopefully the investigators will be able to pinpoint the exact cause. The waiting is going to be tough. MOO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Would the pressure/cracking of the hull cause the slow ascent? Or hull fissures in combo with other events? And, why did it take a few attempts to jettison the frame. (This is such a tragic case to learn about submersibles). I hope the experts find the answers.

I wouldn't really expect cracking of the hull to slow ascent, but it was such a strange design that anything is possible.

Many people who have dived to Titanic have spoken of incredible downward currents near the seafloor at Titanic's location, which sped up the descent and made ascending more difficult. If Titan was caught up in one of those currents it would not only have hindered the ascent, but also quite likely contributed additional stress to the hull.

Wow, what a thorough explanation of the recovered pieces. Thanks for the link!

I had been curious about the viewport but now it’s clear that it’s gone. Wouldn’t it be crazy if the carbon fiber hull held and it was the failure of the viewport that caused the implosion?

Or maybe it shattered as the result of the implosion. Hopefully the investigators will be able to pinpoint the exact cause. The waiting is going to be tough. MOO

The acrylic viewport is gone in the picture shown by the BBC, but there's also no obvious sign of the frame and bolts that were holding the acrylic. I suspect the entire viewport construction broke away from the titanium endcap, rather than the acrylic breaking.

 

[Glimma0927]

Let’s wait and see what they have…..im not hopeful after an implosion of that magnitude.

It's going to require DNA testing to identify who the remains belong to, I'm guessing.

 

[ifindedout]

You see the opposite effect when you use a lot of a propane cylinder via a gas torch. the pressure inside decreases so too does the temperature. The cylinder case get significantly colder and if the air around is humid it starts condensing on the cylinder and ice often forms.

snipped for focus
You also see this with those cans of electronics dusters from stores such as Staples. These so-called "cans of air" (actually a halogenated hydrocarbon such as difluoroethane) get cold at the point of discharge from the can, and the volume slowly dwindles to nothing until it warms up again, or unless you warm the tip with warm or hot water. Happens most often with prolonged use such as when cleaning a filter, not so much with inside electronic devices where those dust bunnies get expelled fairly quickly.
YMMV

 

[Sunny Day]

I'm just speculating here, but what if the reason why there are more big pieces than expected instead of everything being pulverized if this could be because they were ascending and perhaps the pressure was less than it would have been if they had been near the bottom when the implosion occurred and therefore less destruction. Just my thoughts.

 

[MsMarple]

snipped for focus
You also see this with those cans of electronics dusters from stores such as Staples. These so-called "cans of air" (actually a halogenated hydrocarbon such as difluoroethane) get cold at the point of discharge from the can, and the volume slowly dwindles to nothing until it warms up again, or unless you warm the tip with warm or hot water. Happens most often with prolonged use such as when cleaning a filter, not so much with inside electronic devices where those dust bunnies get expelled fairly quickly.
YMMV

I tested it with a can we use for lens dusting. Yep, just as you said.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm just speculating here, but what if the reason why there are more big pieces than expected instead of everything being pulverized if this could be because they were ascending and perhaps the pressure was less than it would have been if they had been near the bottom when the implosion occurred and therefore less destruction. Just my thoughts.

If they were as close to the bottom as they would have been when they got in trouble, which from what we know was roughly an hour and a half into a two hour descent, I think that the difference made if they were going up versus coming down would have been minimal. That's still three kilometres deep underwater. Over three hundred atmospheres worth of pressure.

All the big pieces we've seen offloaded at the port were, as far as I know, external to the pressure hull, with the exception of the two end caps of titanium and their flanges which were epoxy glued onto the main carbon fibre tube section of the hull and I speculate popped free when the implosion happened.

MOO

 

[ifindedout]

The OceanGate Expeditions site is still up and advertising next year’s dives.

Interesting reading about how the expeditions work. From the site:

Once the submersible is launched you will begin to see alienlike lifeforms whizz by the viewport as you sink deeper and deeper into the ocean. The descent takes approximately two hours but it feels like the blink of an eye. You may assist the pilot with coms and tracking, take notes for the science team about what you see outside of the viewport, watch a movie or eat lunch. There is a private toilet at the front of the sub if nature calls.

It sounds idyllic, more like a ride on a tour bus past Hollywood celebrities’ homes than a dive two and a half miles deep into the ocean.

OceanGate Expeditions

oceangateexpeditions.com

ETA: The site just went down. I hope I didn’t break it…

It's working again.

 

[PrairieWind]

I'm just speculating here, but what if the reason why there are more big pieces than expected instead of everything being pulverized if this could be because they were ascending and perhaps the pressure was less than it would have been if they had been near the bottom when the implosion occurred and therefore less destruction. Just my thoughts.

I don't think so. The portions recovered are exactly what I think we would expect to see if it imploded at depth. The rear section and outer clading would not have been under pressure and would not have imploded, just suffering and damage as a result of being near the pressure hull collapse. If the carbon fiber hull is what did give way (the most likely scenario) the titanium caps and rings reallywouldn't be expected to have damage. The implosion occurs at the weakest point only. What we don't see being brought up is pieces of the carbon hull. That tells me it maybe just disintegrated.