Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[imstilla.grandma]

Las Vegas financier Jay Bloom told The Post in an exclusive interview Thursday that he backed out of paying $500,000 for two tickets aboard Titan over safety concerns raised by his son, whom he was planning to take on the voyage.

“[Rush] wasn’t really looking to build a tourism business to the Titanic,” Bloom said. “He wanted to research and document the decay of the ship over time.”

“Multiple dives to the site costs a lot of money. A way to finance his scientific observation was to bring observers down with him,” Bloom added.

Bloom shared with Rush that his son was “concerned about the danger” of the trip after researching the “perceived threats to the vessel.”

Bloom suggested a sperm whale or a giant squid could attack the sub and compromise the hull.

“Yeah very stupid the pressure is over 100 million pounds no sperm whale or squid is ever going to be able to mess with the sub,” Rush replied.

Another red flag for the dad was there was no training ahead of his scheduled sub trip.

“Just climb through the hatch and get in,” he told The Post.

Exclusive | OceanGate CEO wasn’t interested in tourism, charged passengers $250K to fund Titanic research: source

“[Rush] wasn’t really looking to build a tourism business to the Titanic,” Bloom said. “He wanted to research and document the decay of the ship over time.”

nypost.com

"The nation was gripped with what was going on with the submersible over the Titanic, and we learned some really important things during that whole episode," said Rep. Williams, who followed the search and grim discovery of the implosion.

Rep. Williams still had questions, "Why did we have the extensive search by the Coast Guard over many days, when in fact we had the data that suggested where the wreck was? There was a super-secret listening system that actually was able to detect the likely implosion of that submarine within the first few hours of when that occurred."

The Coast Guard said they aren't attributing any noises heard during their search to the submersible itself, saying the ocean is "complex." Still, the CNY representative said the case is not closed.

Rep. Williams still has questions about Titanic submersible implosion

Central New York Congressmember Brandon Williams (R, NY-22) said he has more questions about what happened to the submersible near the wreckage of the Titanic i

cnycentral.com

 

[borndem]

So sad, and final for those who perished, and for those who will be mourning.

Wondering how long it will be before a true investigation will begin -- it essentially has, in an offhand way, but there may well be some official protocol about how something like this will be handled, and who will be in charge.
So, so sorry for those families whose relatives were lost in this accident. Just plain sad.
Hoping that details of this investigation will be made public as soon as is practical.

 

[AngTxGal]

Las Vegas financier Jay Bloom told The Post in an exclusive interview Thursday that he backed out of paying $500,000 for two tickets aboard Titan over safety concerns raised by his son, whom he was planning to take on the voyage.

“[Rush] wasn’t really looking to build a tourism business to the Titanic,” Bloom said. “He wanted to research and document the decay of the ship over time.”

“Multiple dives to the site costs a lot of money. A way to finance his scientific observation was to bring observers down with him,” Bloom added.

Bloom shared with Rush that his son was “concerned about the danger” of the trip after researching the “perceived threats to the vessel.”

Bloom suggested a sperm whale or a giant squid could attack the sub and compromise the hull.

“Yeah very stupid the pressure is over 100 million pounds no sperm whale or squid is ever going to be able to mess with the sub,” Rush replied.

Another red flag for the dad was there was no training ahead of his scheduled sub trip.

“Just climb through the hatch and get in,” he told The Post.

Exclusive | OceanGate CEO wasn’t interested in tourism, charged passengers $250K to fund Titanic research: source

“[Rush] wasn’t really looking to build a tourism business to the Titanic,” Bloom said. “He wanted to research and document the decay of the ship over time.”

nypost.com

"The nation was gripped with what was going on with the submersible over the Titanic, and we learned some really important things during that whole episode," said Rep. Williams, who followed the search and grim discovery of the implosion.

Rep. Williams still had questions, "Why did we have the extensive search by the Coast Guard over many days, when in fact we had the data that suggested where the wreck was? There was a super-secret listening system that actually was able to detect the likely implosion of that submarine within the first few hours of when that occurred."

The Coast Guard said they aren't attributing any noises heard during their search to the submersible itself, saying the ocean is "complex." Still, the CNY representative said the case is not closed.

Rep. Williams still has questions about Titanic submersible implosion

Central New York Congressmember Brandon Williams (R, NY-22) said he has more questions about what happened to the submersible near the wreckage of the Titanic i

cnycentral.com

What is Rep Williams confused about? It is pretty clear…

Did anyone know for certain that the sound heard was in fact the Titan’s implosion? No
Therefore no one could know for sure the sub had imploded.
It took days to get submersibles to the possible wreck site to find out that the sub had in fact imploded.

Based on that logic…
We searched for the vessel floating on the surface because there was a chance they could have ascended and be trapped and losing air.

In such a situation do search parties have a choice Not to attempt to rescue if there is a chance persons could be alive? No
Multiple countries were represented in this situation- and all chose to search because that is the code such countries live by in such situations.
So, was it actually legally or morally an odd choice to search and attempt to rescue? No.

For these reasons…
I read Rep Williams confusion as simply a politicians choice to use a well known tragedy as a way to publicize and promote economically conservative values.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

,,As a white 50 something old male I find his comments both insulting and racist. This sort of attitude seems more prevalent these days, most unfortunate. Hope he, his company and others of his ilk are taken to the cleaners.

I think that the way the newspapers present it, it sounds odd. "Titanic tour CEO didn’t hire ‘50-year-old white guys’ because they weren’t ‐‘inspirational’". What the heck? As to Rush, his ancestors were always on the progressive side. I believe that this is just merely how Stockton Rush said it. Honestly, it is hard to accuse of racism the person whose distant relatives were abolitionists and champions of women's rights.
MOO, we don't need to paint S. Rush evil. He perished, too, and he, too, has a family. If he bypassed laws, there will be lawsuits. If laws don't yet exist, maybe it is time to look at maritime safety.

 

[Elley Mae]

U.S. Navy acoustic sensors detected the likely implosion of the Titan submersible hours after the vessel began its fatal descent on Sunday, U.S. Navy officials said Thursday, a revelation that means the sprawling search for the vessel was conducted even though senior officials already had some indication the Titan was destroyed.

A senior Navy official said in a statement Thursday evening that the service conducted an analysis of acoustic data “and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion” in the general vicinity of where the Titan was operating when it stopped communicating.

The acoustic detection was one significant piece of information, but the search had to continue to exhaust all possibilities, said Mark Cancian, a senior adviser with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
“They suspected what happened but couldn’t be sure,” he said. “What you’re looking at is just lines on a graph. And if you try to convince people you weren’t doing a search because the lines on a graph indicated an implosion, that wouldn’t be acceptable to many.”

….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/22/titan-submersible-navy-sensors/

 

[Sundog]

What is Rep Williams confused about? It is pretty clear…

Did anyone know for certain that the sound heard was in fact the Titan’s implosion? No
Therefore no one could know for sure the sub had imploded.
It took days to get submersibles to the possible wreck site to find out that the sub had in fact imploded.

Based on that logic…
We searched for the vessel floating on the surface because there was a chance they could have ascended and be trapped and losing air.

In such a situation do search parties have a choice Not to attempt to rescue if there is a chance persons could be alive? No
Multiple countries were represented in this situation- and all chose to search because that is the code such countries live by in such situations.
So, was it actually legally or morally an odd choice to search and attempt to rescue? No.

For these reasons…
I read Rep Williams confusion as simply a politicians choice to use a well known tragedy as a way to publicize and promote economically conservative values.

JMO

Rep Williams' point of view regarding the search after the news of the capture of the sound of the likely implosion had - and has - been shared by many experts in the field of deep sea submersible dives to the Titanic. James Cameron severely criticized the Coast Guard and other agencies for their continued search after the implosion was likely heard by U.S. intelligence monitoring.

Cameron excoriated the search parties involved and what he called "the false hope" that gave to the families and the money spent, etc.

Compared to Cameron, Rep. Williams' remarks are mild. I don't think there is anything wrong with Rep. Williams' opinion regarding the finances involved in relation to the search. He is certanly not alone in his opinion by a long shot. Many citizens and experts are in agreement with the point of view that he expresses. And many understand his point of view, but believe that the search should have continued anyway.

 

[Cryptic]

RSBM
But there were two onboard the Titan who shared their deep sea scientific/marine, Titanic, etc research findings with fellow deep sea scientists, marine biologists, explorers, sub-builders, (marine and other) institutions, and many other respectable agencies around the globe. I can't agree that the Titan was simply a risky hobby. jmo

Cave divers will also share information on geological features of their caves.

I dont think the Titan dives (and in fairness, the dives of other deep sea submarines operated by billionaires) are planned in conjunction with say, a university or research institute.

My bet is that there are scientifically far more interesting sites in the global oceans than the Titanic wreckage- or the deepest spot in the ocean.

Yet, those two sites seem to attract an awful lot of attention. In the end, I would say that dives are overwhelmingly business / adventure hobby with a very small fraction devoted to science, or even "science".

 

[ktm44]

RSBM
But there were two onboard the Titan who shared their deep sea scientific/marine, Titanic, etc research findings with fellow deep sea scientists, marine biologists, explorers, sub-builders, (marine and other) institutions, and many other respectable agencies around the globe. I can't agree that the Titan was simply a risky hobby. jmo

We need exploration and curious minds for progress and to understand the world we live in but I do feel that OceanGate preyed on people. Researchers were invited to lend credibility, social influencers were invited for promotion and an any guy can do this feel and the ultra wealthy were there to fund the dive.

I don't see a time when people will not explore the ocean but I hope that this horrible tragedy will lead to some regulations that will protect people from inferior and potentially dangerous equipment.

 

[Cryptic]

James Cameron severely criticized the Coast Guard and other agencies for their continued search after the implosion was likely heard by U.S. intelligence monitoring. Cameron excoriated the search parties involved and what he called "the false hope" that gave to the families and the money spent, etc.

Thinking Cameron should stick to making amazing movies.

Submarine capabilities and submarine detection abilities are amongst the most closely guarded secrets in any nation. As a result, nations can be very reluctant to either publicize or even drop hints as to what those capabilites are.

As a side note, Winston Churchill once refused to make changes after learning that Coventry, or a nearby city would very likely be struck by a mega attack of German bombers during a certain time period.

The reason was that ordered changes might hint to the Germans that the Enigma code had been broken. Lives were lost at Coventry, but more lives were saved in the end by keeping quiet.

So, yes, its not surprising that branch "b" was allowed to continue a search that "branch "A" already knew was futile- but was reluctant to even inform the other branch, let alone the general public because it involved submarines.

 

[Sundog]

Thinking Cameron should stick to making amazing movies.

<snipped for focus>

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I think the main issue is that even if searchers had immediately known the sub imploded, they still couldn't prove it until days later when the deep sea ROVs arrived at the location.

For the sake of propriety and knowing they'd done everything they possibly could, nobody would have been willing to sit around for four days doing nothing, just waiting for the ROVs to get there. They had to do the best they could with the equipment they had available, even if they knew it was likely to be futile.

 

[Cryptic]

Rep. Williams still had questions, "Why did we have the extensive search by the Coast Guard over many days, when in fact we had the data that suggested where the wreck was? There was a super-secret listening system that actually was able to detect the likely implosion of that submarine within the first few hours of when that occurred."

Good grief, he answered his own question:

The listening system is (was) super secret and the military did not want to drop hints about its existence or capabilities.

So, yes.... they allowed the Coast Guard search to continue despite knowing that it was very likely futile.

 

[bestill]

Here is an interesting article from the BBC.

It matches the recovered part with its placement on the Titan.

What Titan sub wreckage can tell us about the tragedy

JMVHO.

Thank you for this! It's exactly what I hoped someone would do.

 

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1674831961746030614

https://twitter.com/x/status/1674828264609660966

 

[fred&edna]

Cave divers will also share information on geological features of their caves.

I dont think the Titan dives (and in fairness, the dives of other deep sea submarines operated by billionaires) are planned in conjunction with say, a university or research institute.

My bet is that there are scientifically far more interesting sites in the global oceans than the Titanic wreckage- or the deepest spot in the ocean.

Yet, those two sites seem to attract an awful lot of attention. In the end, I would say that dives are overwhelmingly business / adventure hobby with a very small fraction devoted to science, or even "science".

They shared information with all interested parties. The info (linked below) about the N-F ridge doesn't describe a "hobby". (imo) The Nargeolet-Fanning ridge, which until the excursion OG 2022 was just a sonar blip.

It turns out to be an “extraordinarily biodiverse abyssal ecosystem” located on a volcanic basalt formation that lay unsuspected neighbouring the world’s most famous shipwreck – and it has now been provisionally named after two of the first people to sight it as the Nargeolet-Fanning Ridge.
-----
Murray Roberts, a professor of applied marine biology and ecology at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland who studies deep sea and cold water corals, was on the 2022 expedition with Nargeolet and calls witnessing the undiscovered reef “a rare privilege.

In hundreds of years, the Titanic will return to nature again–still serving as an artificial reef but eventually deteriorating due to the iron-eating bacteria and strong ocean currents. It will become buried under the sediments and marine snow. But the volcanic ridge will still be there. This rocky ridge is a fascinating place, helping us understand how species move from one place to another. And it’s a natural deep sea reef compared to the artificial reef the Titanic now forms
-----
Due to the blip's magnitude, Nargeolet had believed he was looking for another shipwreck — he instead found a rocky reef, made up of various volcanic formations, and thriving with lobsters, deep-sea fish, sponges and several species of coral that could be thousands of years old.

"It is biologically fascinating. The animals that live there are very different to the animals that are found otherwise living in the abyssal ocean," said Murray Roberts, a professor of applied marine biology and ecology at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland and one of the researchers on the expedition. "(Nargeolet) did a really important piece of scientific work. He thought it was a shipwreck, and it turned out, in my mind, even more amazing than a shipwreck."

The abyssal plain is a term used to describe the ocean floor at a water depth around 12,000 feet, which makes up 60% of Earth's surface, according to Roberts. It is thought to be a featureless, muddy seabed without much structure.

Links

Titanic ‘blip’ mystery solved

A signal in the vicinity of the wreck of the Titanic was originally recorded in the form of a blip on sonar by Paul Henry Nargeolet 26 years ago.

divernet.com

A Titanic Finding: What It’s Like to Discover a Deep Sea Reef

<p>During a 2022 Titanic Expedition, researchers made a thrilling discovery near the infamous wreck: a never-before-seen deep-ocean rocky reef.</p>

www.scubadiving.com

Divers uncover a surprising discovery near the wreck of the Titanic

The wreck of the Titanic sits in two parts at the bottom of the North Atlantic Ocean, slowly decaying nearly 13,000 feet below the surface, but it's not alone.

www.abc12.com

 

[Gardenista]

 

[MsMarple]

Last night I started watching Back to the Titanic. Different submersible and crew. I won’t get into all the details but a couple things I did notice that contrasted Titan were the interior of the submersible and the communication system.

The interior looked like a space capsule with all kinds of lights glowing. There were three viewports, all were much smaller than Titan’s. The steering mechanism was a large joystick. The hull was titanium. I think max passengers was either two or three.

The communication system was voice based and worked even when the submersible was at the bottom. It was also pitch black and silty around Titanic.

Anyway I understand this dive was mainly exploratory so the demeanor of the crew was very different but it did help me better understand how such dives work. It also made me question the quality of workmanship and materials that went into Titan. Seeing the contrast suggests at least some of Rush’s corner-cutting was due more to money than innovation. JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

They shared information with all interested parties. The info (linked below) about the N-F ridge doesn't describe a "hobby". (imo) The Nargeolet-Fanning ridge, which until the excursion OG 2022 was just a sonar blip.

It turns out to be an “extraordinarily biodiverse abyssal ecosystem” located on a volcanic basalt formation that lay unsuspected neighbouring the world’s most famous shipwreck – and it has now been provisionally named after two of the first people to sight it as the Nargeolet-Fanning Ridge.
-----
Murray Roberts, a professor of applied marine biology and ecology at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland who studies deep sea and cold water corals, was on the 2022 expedition with Nargeolet and calls witnessing the undiscovered reef “a rare privilege.

In hundreds of years, the Titanic will return to nature again–still serving as an artificial reef but eventually deteriorating due to the iron-eating bacteria and strong ocean currents. It will become buried under the sediments and marine snow. But the volcanic ridge will still be there. This rocky ridge is a fascinating place, helping us understand how species move from one place to another. And it’s a natural deep sea reef compared to the artificial reef the Titanic now forms
-----
Due to the blip's magnitude, Nargeolet had believed he was looking for another shipwreck — he instead found a rocky reef, made up of various volcanic formations, and thriving with lobsters, deep-sea fish, sponges and several species of coral that could be thousands of years old.

"It is biologically fascinating. The animals that live there are very different to the animals that are found otherwise living in the abyssal ocean," said Murray Roberts, a professor of applied marine biology and ecology at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland and one of the researchers on the expedition. "(Nargeolet) did a really important piece of scientific work. He thought it was a shipwreck, and it turned out, in my mind, even more amazing than a shipwreck."

The abyssal plain is a term used to describe the ocean floor at a water depth around 12,000 feet, which makes up 60% of Earth's surface, according to Roberts. It is thought to be a featureless, muddy seabed without much structure.

Links

Titanic ‘blip’ mystery solved

A signal in the vicinity of the wreck of the Titanic was originally recorded in the form of a blip on sonar by Paul Henry Nargeolet 26 years ago.

divernet.com

A Titanic Finding: What It’s Like to Discover a Deep Sea Reef

<p>During a 2022 Titanic Expedition, researchers made a thrilling discovery near the infamous wreck: a never-before-seen deep-ocean rocky reef.</p>

www.scubadiving.com

Divers uncover a surprising discovery near the wreck of the Titanic

The wreck of the Titanic sits in two parts at the bottom of the North Atlantic Ocean, slowly decaying nearly 13,000 feet below the surface, but it's not alone.

www.abc12.com

TBH, this discovery is far more exciting to me, and I've talked before about my past obsessive interest in and deep knowledge of the Titanic. Sounds like they found something that changed the understanding of what was known to be possible to live and exist in the ocean at that depth, and that's remarkable.

MOO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Last night I started watching Back to the Titanic. Different submersible and crew. I won’t get into all the details but a couple things I did notice that contrasted Titan were the interior of the submersible and the communication system.

The interior looked like a space capsule with all kinds of lights glowing. There were three viewports, all were much smaller than Titan’s. The steering mechanism was a large joystick. The hull was titanium. I think max passengers was either two or three.

The communication system was voice based and worked even when the submersible was at the bottom. It was also pitch black and silty around Titanic.

Anyway I understand this dive was mainly exploratory so the demeanor of the crew was very different but it did help me better understand how such dives work. It also made me question the quality of workmanship and materials that went into Titan. Seeing the contrast suggests at least some of Rush’s corner-cutting was due more to money than innovation. JMO

I believe the sub used on the Back to the Titanic dives was the Triton 36000/2:

Triton 36000/2 - Full Ocean Depth | Triton Submarines

The world's only submersible certified to repeatedly dive to the deepest part of the ocean, in the Mariana Trench, at 11,000 meters.

tritonsubs.com

It's in a completely different league to the Titan. It's rated to 11,000m (36,000ft) and has been pressure tested to 14,000m (46,000ft). To put that into perspective, Titanic is only 3,800m (12,500ft) down. Triton can go all the way down to the bottom of the Challenger Deep.

Even if Titan had been built properly to withstand the pressure at 4,000m, it wouldn't have been directly comparable to the Triton. Triton is the absolute best-of-the-best.

 

[Cryptic]

"It is biologically fascinating. The animals that live there are very different to the animals that are found otherwise living in the abyssal ocean," said Murray Roberts, a professor of applied marine biology and ecology at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland and one of the researchers on the expedition. "(Nargeolet) did a really important piece of scientific work. He thought it was a shipwreck, and it turned out, in my mind, even more amazing than a shipwreck."

The abyssal plain is a term used to describe the ocean floor at a water depth around 12,000 feet, which makes up 60% of Earth's surface, according to Roberts. It is thought to be a featureless, muddy seabed without much structure.

Surprised they could not get a university sponsor (or a national government sponsor) if the scientific research at the Titanic wreck site is valuable. Instead, they charge "crew members" sans any kind of marine biology degree $250,000 a seat.

Something just seems "fishy". I still think the main focus was adventure hobby for the wealthy. There is, of course, nothing wrong with that.