Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023

[bmacmillan1]

This waiting for any news of the missing submarine is reminding me of when the Kursk,the Russian submarine that sunk to the bottom of the Barents Sea in 2000 with all 118 crew perishing.Same feeling of dread now...

 

[Sundog]

I believe the response would be the same.

Over the years many people who have had huge resources spent on rescuing them were not millionaires or even wealthy, or well known.

Yes, thinking of missing miners when mines collapsed, and other tragic rescue efforts.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Yesterday I was imagining they were just older billionaires who risked everything for this adventure. But a father and his 19 year-old son are on board. That’s heartbreaking.

 

[Erutan]

OY, NBC reporter just asked if the submersible could even be retrieved if it WAS found by the search ROVs--the response from the Coast Guard official was noncommittal at best.

This is so sad.

I have no judgement on people who have the $$ to go on an adventure .... but in the future I think many will pause before trying to view the Titanic wreckage !
A remote camera would be enough for me, and in a few more years there may be very little left of the ship.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The White Star Line insured the Titanic for the equivalent of $133 million in today’s currency. After the accident, cargo insurance policies covered almost all of the property claims totaling $9.42 million. Much like today, insurance companies were able to step in and absorb the losses.

Filing claims after the disaster was an emotional but relatively streamlined process. Only two weeks after the incident, on April 28, 1912, the New York Times reported insurance had covered almost all claims. Compare this with the Costa Concordia disaster nearly one hundred years later in 2012 when a cruise ship struck an underwater rock and capsized off the coast of Italy. Although most of the Concordia passengers were rescued, insurance professionals were still estimating the total losses weeks after the disaster. As of 2014, total insurance loss from the wreck and salvage of the Costa Concordia was estimated at $2 Billion.

When an “Unsinkable Ship” Sinks

upscapital.com

 

[Lexiintoronto]

RSBM

I'm not sure I understand this statement from 10 Downing Street. Why are they waiting to be asked to provide help in the search, especially since they are the host nation of NATO's submarine rescue capacity. There are at least three reported British citizens on the missing sub, and they need to be asked to offer assistance?

Hamish Harding - British citizen
Shahzada Dawood - British citizen
Sulaiman Dawood - British citizen

I don't get it. If the UK has NATO-approved submarine rescue capacity, what are they waiting for?


edited spelling

The Titanic is in US waters. The American coast guard was notified first and requested the assistance of Canadian resources and we responded immediately. I believe the US would have to request or accept assistance from the UK, imo.

I imagine they’ve offered and the assistance was likely appreciated and accepted if they could use it. I think that is just a statement the UK has put out: we’re offering all of our resources.

ETA: Everything I’ve read has said US is leading the search, but it was pointed out the Titanic is in international waters.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

A 1993 regulation put strict controls on safety standards and who could pilot a submersible.

Rush called these developments "understandable but illogical," saying he felt the law was well meaning but lamenting the stifling effect it put on commercial innovation.

His remarks on safety came as part of a wider set of regrets about how little the US government prioritized ocean research.

A 2019 blog post on OceanGate's website cites speed of innovation as one of the reasons the Titan isn't classed according to standard regulatory processes. It said that while the company met standards "where they apply," the slow processes of vessel classification were "anathema to innovation."

The maker of the lost Titan submersible previously complained about strict passenger-vessel regulations, saying the industry was 'obscenely safe'

In a 2019 interview about the Titan, OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush lamented the effect of safety regulations on the commercial submersible industry.

www.insider.com

 

[Sundog]

I'm sorry I haven't read this entire forum and just heard about this awful situation. Has it been theorized that this sub could be inside the remains of the Titanic and have become trapped?
I would imagine that the sub would have some sort of transponder like a plane with mission recordings and a locator...has this been discussed/confirmed?

Yes, it has been theorized here and by MSM news commentators and specialists in the field that the sub could be tangled in the remains of the Titanic.

With regard to some sort of transponder or locator on the sub, from everything I have read so far, it sounds like the sub did not have any locators, that communications were controlled by the main ship.

 

[heartandsoul]

Maybe a dumb and irrelevant (if it’s imploded) question, but do subs like Titan have a black box?

 

[JerseyGirl]

Other sub threads over the years:

FOUND - Argentine submarine goes missing with 44 crew members on board, November 2017

An Argentine military submarine with 44 crew members on board was missing at sea on Friday, prompting a massive search to locate the vessel which may have suffered a communication error...

www.websleuths.com

Found Deceased - Rescue teams race against time for Indonesian submarine with 53 aboard - Apr 22/2021

Indonesian navy ships searched Thursday for a submarine that likely sank too deep to retrieve, making survival chances for the 53 people on board slim. Authorities said oxygen in the submarine would run out by early Saturday. Rescue ships from Singapore and Malaysia are expected to arrive...

www.websleuths.com

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/usa-rushes-to-save-russian-submarine.27346/

 

[Sundog]

Yesterday I was imagining they were just older billionaires who risked everything for this adventure. But a father and his 19 year-old son are on board. That’s heartbreaking.

Someone posted an MSM news article above that showed photos of each of the individuals on board the sub, including a photo of the 19-year old, Sulaiman, and his father, Shahzada. Also a photo taken earlier of the 19-year old and his mother, Christine.

Keeping all five of the missing in my prayers, and their families and loved ones, too.

 

[citizen_sleuth]

The Coast Guard said there were one pilot and four “mission specialists” aboard. “Mission specialists” are people who pay to come along on OceanGate’s expeditions. They take turns operating sonar equipment and performing other tasks in the five-person submersible. (per NewsNation)

I find it very odd that the company classifies paying customers as mission specialists/crew members rather than passengers. Does anyone know why this is? MOO but I wonder if the safety standards for passenger vessels are more stringent than for research vessels and by having the paying passengers "take turns" operating equipment, the company is able to still classify it a "research" vessel (while still collecting money from passengers).

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe a dumb and irrelevant (if it’s imploded) question, but do subs like Titan have a black box?

I think that is a good question.
I was just thinking that it would be helpful if they did.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

“mission specialists”

Mission specialists

 

[iamshadow21]

The Coast Guard said there were one pilot and four “mission specialists” aboard. “Mission specialists” are people who pay to come along on OceanGate’s expeditions. They take turns operating sonar equipment and performing other tasks in the five-person submersible. (per NewsNation)

I find it very odd that the company classifies paying customers as mission specialists/crew members rather than passengers. Does anyone know why this is? MOO but I wonder if the safety standards for passenger vessels more stringent than for research vessels and by having the paying passengers "take turns" operating equipment, the company is able to still classify it a "research" vessel (while still collecting money from passengers).

That is my strong suspicion.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Forty hours of breathable air left as US Coast Guard launches new vessel to search for lost submersible

Some more about the incident, and about the passengers. Reinforces my view that the pilot/CEO, the Scot, and the Frenchman all knew the risks and what they were signing on for, and that the father and son likely didn't. The first three all had many years of doing this kind of underwater exploration.

MOO

 

[Warwick1991]

The Titanic is in US waters. The American coast guard was notified first and requested the assistance of Canadian resources and we responded immediately. I believe the US would have to request or accept assistance from the UK, imo.

I imagine they’ve offered and the assistance was likely appreciated and accepted if they could use it. I think that is just a statement the UK has put out: we’re offering all of our resources.

The Titanic is in international waters, with the site protected by treaty with various signers, including the US. See NOAA - Titanic Treaty

 

[Erutan]

A 1993 regulation put strict controls on safety standards and who could pilot a submersible.

Rush called these developments "understandable but illogical," saying he felt the law was well meaning but lamenting the stifling effect it put on commercial innovation.

His remarks on safety came as part of a wider set of regrets about how little the US government prioritized ocean research.

A 2019 blog post on OceanGate's website cites speed of innovation as one of the reasons the Titan isn't classed according to standard regulatory processes. It said that while the company met standards "where they apply," the slow processes of vessel classification were "anathema to innovation."

The maker of the lost Titan submersible previously complained about strict passenger-vessel regulations, saying the industry was 'obscenely safe'

In a 2019 interview about the Titan, OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush lamented the effect of safety regulations on the commercial submersible industry.

www.insider.com

I understand his frustration , but it's to safeguard an event just like what's happening now.

 

[Sundog]

I find it very odd that the company classifies paying customers as mission specialists/crew members rather than passengers. Does anyone know why this is? MOO but I wonder if the safety standards for passenger vessels are more stringent than for research vessels and by having the paying passengers "take turns" operating equipment, the company is able to still classify it a "research" vessel (while still collecting money from passengers).

RSBM

I don't think that classifying passengers as mission specialists/crew members necessarily has anything to do with safety standards, it is likely a way to communicate that passengers are engaged in the mission at some level, however basic. The submersible pilot, Paul-Henry Nargeoles, who was piloting the mission would have been in charge and very attuned to safety issues, IMO. He is a former diver for the French navy.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

This is as close to the Titanic that I ever needed to be. Titanic Museum | Titanic Historical Society Collection

DH and I went on a shore excursion to the Titanic Museum and cemetery while we were on a Canada/New England cruise in September 2011. The tour was interesting and informative, and we were glad to have selected that particular excursion. No way would I ever want to visit the actual ruins of the sunken vessel.